Madeleine McCann

retro:electro · 24-03-2019 12:48PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Very sad to think what they would even be getting back at this stage. If she’s still alive, she’s not a 4 year old child anymore, but a young woman who will likely have a myriad of issues and as a result be quite damaged. She may even have children of her own. She most likely wouldn’t even remember her family. Very sad situation if that was the case.

gozunda · 24-03-2019 12:50PM

Something Else

retro:electro wrote: »

I didn’t attack you? Very strange comment out of you, and ironic to boot when you consider how you respond to people.

My replying to refute crazy contents, misquotes etc is the same as some attacking others for posting information on official facts regarding child abuse? Really?

This is you getting it wrong and going off on a rant

retro:electro wrote:

It is your good self who is sticking their head in the sand for what seems to be a failure to acknowledge that.

without absolutely any proof to back up what are quite frankly disgusting claims - then off I go to get my bucket and shovel to bury my head some more because quite frankly I’d rather be buried then make disgraceful and baseless allegations like that.

And your friend tickets doing much the same

You feel free to keep making up wild conspiracy theories and no matter what evidence that is put to you, you just ignore the facts and move onto the next theory.

Or maybe there are people like you who believe every wild conspiracy theory and conspiracy theory and when facts are pointed out , you spin it into another conspiracy theory.

And all because I posted one single post about fact that children are more likley to be abused or harmed by those known to them.

Wtf

iamwhoiam · 24-03-2019 12:52PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

I very much doubt Madeleine is alive . She was a liability from day one due to high media exposure .
My guess is little Madeleine was dead within 48 hours . Poor scrap , I hope she was .

gozunda · 24-03-2019 12:53PM

Something Else

Tristen Hissing Typhoon wrote: »

Here we go again. Just like I said in my last post. Facts are presented to you to refute your claims and you just spin that into another conspiracy. "Oh well, how do we know who took the pictures?"
How do you know those pictures were produced by "people known to the children". Is this all part of the pact of silence theory that you are still clinging on to?

Let me spell it out I am not the poster you quoted. An apology would be good.

Eitherway If you wish to delve into the murky world of child abuse please feel free. I'm not going to facilitate you.

retro:electro · 24-03-2019 12:53PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

gozunda wrote: »

So responding by pointing out the crazy contents and and stirring as the same as others attacking posters posting information such as that on child abuse? Really?

Please just ignore me. I literally have no interest in engaging in a back and forth about what you perceive to be attacks on you when they’re completely normal replies. Your insistence on being “attacked” at every opportunity is quite frankly ruining the thread.

cnocbui · 24-03-2019 12:55PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

gozunda wrote: »

Is there a mad bunch of hangovers here this morning or somethinh?

Another rant about something else entirely .
Again the Quote refers to the fact that children are more likley to be harmed or abused by someone known to them.

It's a stand alone fact. Deny whatever in the way you like. It makes no difference to me tbh.

Such statistics are very useful for police investigating to determine where to initially focus, but they are dangerous also in cases where strangers and an abduction are involved because it delays the taking of measures such as road blocks and border crossing monitoring.

In poker, it is statistically very unlikely to be dealt a royal flush, but it happens.

Statistics are just odds, they have no bearing on the reality of what did or didn't happen. Facts determine statistics; not the other way round.

iamwhoiam · 24-03-2019 01:03PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

cnocbui wrote: »

Such statistics are very useful for police investigating to determine where to initially focus, but they are dangerous also in cases where strangers and an abduction are involved because it delays the taking of measures such as road blocks and border crossing monitoring.

In poker, it is statistically very unlikely to be dealt a royal flush, but it happens.

Statistics are just odds, they have no bearing on the reality of what did or didn't happen. Facts determine statistics; not the other way round.

I wonder did the fact that Madeleine could have wandered out an unlocked door really interfere with the outcome
Then I presume it was first thought she wandered and got lost and nothing was put in place to put road blocks in place .
Searching for a little lost girl is not the same urgency as a child taken and abducted . They lost hours

gozunda · 24-03-2019 01:11PM

Something Else

cnocbui wrote: »

Such statistics are very useful for police investigating to determine where to initially focus, but they are dangerous also in cases where strangers and an abduction are involved because it delays the taking of measures such as road blocks and border crossing monitoringIn poker, it is statistically very unlikely to be dealt a royal flush, but it happens.Statistics are just odds, they have no bearing on the reality of what did or didn't happen. Facts determine statistics; not the other way round.

As far as I know thd NSPCC figures are based on case files and not chance happenings. So yes they do have a very real bearing on reality.

gozunda · 24-03-2019 01:15PM

Something Else

retro:electro wrote: »

Please just ignore me. I literally have no interest in engaging in a back and forth about what you perceive to be attacks on you when they’re completely normal replies. Your instance on being “attacked” at every opportunity is quite frankly ruining the thread.

:rolleyes:

I do thanks. I take nothing as said seriously tbh. Please feel free not to reply Thanks

cnocbui · 24-03-2019 01:21PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

iamwhoiam wrote: »

I wonder did the fact that Madeleine could have wandered out an unlocked door really interfere with the outcome
Then I presume it was first thought she wandered and got lost and nothing was put in place to put road blocks in place .
Searching for a little lost girl is not the same urgency as a child taken and abducted . They lost hours

Absolutely, in the PJ files they clearly admit that the seriousness of an abduction possibility didn't arise until much later the following day, and it was too late to take measures against, though they did cursorily try, anyway.

I came across an interesting little tidbit. A lot is made of the allegation that the first thing Kate said was is 'they have taken her' or some such, but David Payne states that when she rushed back to the Tapas, she said "She's gone".

gozunda · 24-03-2019 01:30PM

Something Else

iamwhoiam wrote: »

I wonder did the fact that Madeleine could have wandered out an unlocked door really interfere with the outcome
Then I presume it was first thought she wandered and got lost and nothing was put in place to put road blocks in place .
Searching for a little lost girl is not the same urgency as a child taken and abducted . They lost hours

When I think of the possibility she got up and wandered away I think of the case of Aisling Symes in New Zealand.

Despite searches even at the location she was found - they didn't find her within the crucial first 24 hours. It is such a sad story

https://ipfs.io/ipfs/QmXoypizjW3WknFiJnKLwHCnL72vedxjQkDDP1mXWo6uco/wiki/Death_of_Aisling_Symes.html

cnocbui · 24-03-2019 01:32PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

gozunda wrote: »

As far as I know thd NSPCC figures are based on case files and not chance happenings. So yes they do have a very real bearing on reality.

No they don't. Statistics can be used to describe events and predict events, but they don't determine events. Which seems to be what you think happens.

If something statistically unlikely happens you can't appeal to statistics and claim it didn't happen because statistics would suggest it was unlikely to happen.

That is what you are doing You can't do that, it is a logical nonsense.

Two sisters recently won €175 Million in the EuroMillion. Your argument is that they can't have because that is statistically less likely than not winning.

What happens, happens - statistics plays no part whatsoever - there is no causation.

retro:electro · 24-03-2019 01:35PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

cnocbui wrote: »

I came across an interesting little tidbit. A lot is made of the allegation that the first thing Kate said was is 'they have taken her' or some such, but David Payne states that when she rushed back to the Tapas, she said "She's gone".

I’ve read similar. One of the first on the scene was asked if it was the only thing she said, Miss Pennington answered: "It might not have been the first thing she said. But she definitely said it. She also repeated Madeleine's name and said: 'She's gone, she's gone'.

The McCann's friends have countered this by insisting they recall her shouting: "Madeleine's gone."

The person who overheard Kate screaming “they’ve taken her” was woken by a knock on her door altering her and her husband to the turn of events at 11:30pm, so approx an hour and a half after it was realised Madeleine was gone. It was then when she heard Kate state these words, “the bastards have taken her”, which aren’t that outrageous when you consider her child had been gone for nearly two hours at this point, so far from a nonsensical accusation, it was more of a realisation she came to nearly two hours later when she realised whoever had taken Madeleine, had probably taken her, and she was unlikely to return.

Also, because I don’t think it can be stated enough on this thread, a few words from the former nanny who was actually there on the night and was witness to the aftermath:

She is still constantly quizzed by people about the case who ask if “the parents did it”.
She said: “I tell them no, there’s no way at all. A, timings and B, where it was, their reactions, the whole thing. Not a chance.”

gozunda · 24-03-2019 01:42PM

Something Else

cnocbui wrote: »

No they don't. Statistics can be used to describe events and predict events, but they don't determine events. Which seems to be what you think happens.If something statistically unlikely happens you can't appeal to statistics and claim it didn't happen because statistics would suggest it was unlikely to happen.That is what you are doing You can't do that, it is a logical nonsense.Two sisters recently won €175 Million in the EuroMillion. Your argument is that they can't have because that is statistically less likely than not winning.What happens, happens - statistics plays no part whatsoever - there is no causation.

You seem to be referencing the study of statistical probability there where probability is defined as the study of chance

The figures quoted afaik come from case files of actual events.

I would presume the NCPCC know what they are talking about tbh.

v638sg7k1a92bx · 24-03-2019 01:54PM

gozunda wrote: »

Let me spell it out I am not the poster you quoted. An apology would be good.

But how do we know that, maybe you had help from the other poster? What evidence do you have to prove that it in fact wasn't you who posted that? You and cgsb have very inconsistent theories, look a the amount of times you contradicted each other. I think you may be in this together.

See where I'm going with this?

gozunda · 24-03-2019 02:01PM

Something Else

cnocbui wrote: »

Absolutely, in the PJ files they clearly admit that the seriousness of an abduction possibility didn't arise until much later the following day, and it was too late to take measures against, though they did cursorily try, anyway.I came across an interesting little tidbit. A lot is made of the allegation that the first thing Kate said was is 'they have taken her' or some such, but David Payne states that when she rushed back to the Tapas, she said "She's gone".

The references for Kate saying that appears to come from at least three official sources.

I would be very wary of any of the main stream media accounts of what might have been said tbh

The first is the witness statement of one of the Police officers on the scene who reports that

As much the father as the girl's mother looked quite worried with the situation and he can even confirm that the mother was very agitated and out of control, crying a lot and shouting in an uncontrolled manner, saying in English "They have taken her".

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JOAO_BARREIRAS.htm

This sounds like he is referring to something she is repeating. Perhaps in shock?

The second reference is from Rachel Oldfield police interview who states that Kate said "Somebodys taken her'

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/RACHAEL-OLDFIELD-ROGATORY.htm

And interestingly also from a Manager of the Ocean Club resort

https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JOHN_HILL.htm

OwlsZat · 24-03-2019 03:02PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

This sighting sounds like the most definite. Also couple of sightings mentiom being with a french speaking woman. Does anyone know if it was somehow dismissed or if there was anything discovered in the follow up?

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/madeleinemccann/2506098/Madeleine-McCann-Gerry-and-Kate-learn-of-Amsterdam-sighting.html

Plumbthedepths · 24-03-2019 03:30PM

OwlsZat wrote:

This sighting sounds like the most definite. Also couple of sightings mentiom being with a french speaking woman. Does anyone know if it was somehow dismissed or if there was anything discovered in the follow up?

Strange that she didn't notice the most striking feature Madeline had.

iamwhoiam · 24-03-2019 03:33PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Strange that she didn't notice the most striking feature Madeline had.

I imagine you would need to be quite close to the child to notice it . Its a small defect on the eye

Plumbthedepths · 24-03-2019 03:36PM

iamwhoiam wrote:

I imagine you would need to be quite close to the child to notice it . Its a small defect on the eye

' the little girl stood before me' her words. It maybe a small defect but it is certainly noticeable.

iamwhoiam · 24-03-2019 03:40PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

' the little girl stood before me' her words. It maybe a small defect but it is certainly noticeable.

Yeh true . I wonder did Madeleine ever refer to herself as Maddy ? I don't think the parents ever did or do

gozunda · 24-03-2019 03:41PM

Something Else

iamwhoiam wrote: »

I imagine you would need to be quite close to the child to notice it . Its a small defect on the eye

Interestingly theres a whole section of the official files devoted to recorded sightings of Madelieine

I believe there have been thousands of sightings to date.

From the day 04-05-2007 onwards (the day following the events) and until the current date in an initially uncontrolled rhythm, which slowly decreased, thousands of reports of “sightings” and locations arrived at the PJ, covering the whole of the national territory as well as the most diverse foreign locations, from the obvious Spain to the unusual Indonesia and Singapore, Madeleine having been recognised in the most varied locations and multiple situations and company, in such a way that in the same day she had been sighted in locations situated at a distance of 4.000 km apart

See:
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/ASSORTED_SIGHTINGS_1.htm

The ones recorded there cover just the period of 2007 -2008.

I presume notice of such sighting now go to the UK task force dealing with that case?

Plumbthedepths · 24-03-2019 03:42PM

My understanding was of anything I read was she was always referred to as Madeline by her parents, the tabloids used Maddie.
Also what makes someone look Portuguese? Mediterranean I would get but Portuguese makes no sense.

OwlsZat · 24-03-2019 03:48PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Strange that she didn't notice the most striking feature Madeline had.

The article states when she looked up her picture on the internet afterwards she was certain it was her. I'd forgive her not picking it up as she seemed to give a pretty complete report. It's just one of very few citings which wasn't publicly stated to be mistaken identity.

iamwhoiam · 24-03-2019 03:50PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

My understanding was of anything I read was she was always referred to as Madeline by her parents, the tabloids used Maddie.
Also what makes someone look Portuguese? Mediterranean I would get but Portuguese makes no sense.

Some of the journalists mentioned that Murat first referred to her as Maddie

Plumbthedepths · 24-03-2019 03:52PM

OwlsZat wrote:

The article states when she looked up her picture on the internet afterwards she was certain it was her. I'd forgive her not picking it up as she seemed to give a pretty complete report. It's just one of very few citings which wasn't publicly stated to be mistaken identity.

Just pointing out nowhere does it mention the eye which was a focus in the media at the time. Also identifying a nationality by appearance? I'm not sure what ethnic trait a Portuguese would have from a Spaniard or a Brazilian.

Plumbthedepths · 24-03-2019 03:53PM

iamwhoiam wrote:

Some of the journalists mentioned that Murat first referring to her as Maddie

A child will refer to themselves as the name their parents use for them. Gerry and Kate always referred to her as Madeline.

iamwhoiam · 24-03-2019 03:55PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

A child will refer to themselves as the name their parents use for them. Gerry and Kate always referred to her as Madeline.

I agree . Which is why her referring to herself as Maddie would be odd .

OwlsZat · 24-03-2019 03:56PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

My understanding was of anything I read was she was always referred to as Madeline by her parents, the tabloids used Maddie.
Also what makes someone look Portuguese? Mediterranean I would get but Portuguese makes no sense.

She said the man spoke Portuguese not looked Portuguese.

Plumbthedepths · 24-03-2019 04:08PM

OwlsZat wrote:

She said the man spoke Portuguese not looked Portuguese.

In the article it says she saw a Portuguese looking man, maybe read the article you linked before you try to correct me. Thanks.

Madeleine McCann

Comments