Madeleine McCann

OwlsZat · 24-03-2019 02:02AM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

I see one change in Portuguese law from last year where they created a database of known offenders that parents can search. This change indicates the problem is still present.

I don't have a huge belief in the Portuguese police or judicial system to effect change that fast. It was a state-sponsored effort at one point and I'm not convinced there isn't a blind eye being turned to some of the creeps maybe boosting the local economy over there.

OwlsZat · 24-03-2019 02:03AM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

gozunda wrote: »

In a recent article about this case on the Sunday Independent DCI Sutton (ex Scotland Yard) said that:

I think he neatly sums up one of the main reason apart from any evidence of abduction by a stranger as to why such a scenario is not necessarily the correct explanation for what happened to Madeleine McCann.

Whilst the bogey man may exist in all our imaginations and many of us were told as children that he would come and get us - happily this is still a fairly rare occurrence in real life. The fact remains that more children are harmed by people known to them than any random stranger.

Your evidence is statistics?

Works 100% of the time none of the time.

Plumbthedepths · 24-03-2019 02:13AM

gozunda wrote:

I think he neatly sums up one of the main reason apart from any evidence of abduction as to why such a scenario not necessarily the correct explanation for what happened to Madeleine McCann.

Attach no meaning to the paragraph I choose simply to respond.
I have offered no theory as to what happened to Madeline because I would not allow myself an entrenched position.
I will say the following I believe she died in the apartment due to an accident or overdose, I don't believe both parents have knowledge of what happened just one. My problem is which one, both are a conundrum. We keep hearing of tight timelines, b*llsh*t people are on holidays they don't live by the clock. I believe and as abhorrent as it sounds Madeline was disposed of in a bin, not a domestic bin but rather the larger street bin 1000l capacity. We know in 2007 well over 54 per cent of waste went to landfill ( based on the 2014 figure of 54 per cent).
The night Madeline went missing the behaviour of her parents is absolutely bizarre so no need for me to repeat as all are aware, the blaming of the PJ for a messed up crime scene is a p*sstake as the McCanns may have aswell thrown a party before the Police arrived. Then there is the lack of cooperation from the McCanns their friends bizarre, contacting the media less than 4 hours after her disappearance. Doing everything in contradiction to what Police Forces the world over recommend.
There is so much more I could write but why bother people are entrenched I have no interest in changing there mind .
However the most damning in this case for me is the statement form Colin Sutton on his refusal to lead the investigation for Madeline, he was already told what line of enquiry he was to pursue and to find Kate and Gerry innocent.
In all this fighting corners etc a little girl has been missed and had she survived that night would as most of them are be a happy go lucky 16 year old. That's me done the rest of you guys can get back to the usual ignoring the obvious and not forgetting the personal attacks... oh yes the sneering contempt that is evident throughout this thread.
Night all.

Lady Poepoe · 24-03-2019 02:52AM

I didn't realise that the man that Jane saw didn't come forward till 6 years later.
Gerry and Jez claim they didnt see her. But I doubt Jane would walk pass without saying to Gerry that his wife was asking for him.
She claimed the man was facing north going left to right. But isn't the creche south east so wouldn't the man going north with her? It's very odd when looking at the map. Was this actually the man who came forward?
Did anyone in their statement or timeline(s ) mention Jane leaving the table. What proof she actually went to check the children

FishOnABike · 24-03-2019 09:46AM

limnam wrote: »

It's a FACT he was a pedophile

FACT.

No mistruth, no rumour.

FACT.

It's a FACT she was drinking brandy with him making jokes about a dog brought into assit her that it wouldn't be able to be used in court

FACT.

please point out any rumour/mistruth in the above

Have you ever heard the saying "There's many a lie told with the truth."?

Cork Lass · 24-03-2019 09:56AM

Something Else

dark crystal wrote: »

We've been over the fact they left the children alone numerous times and have been warned about continuing down that line, so it's a moot point at this stage.

Any viable theories on what happened to Madeleine?

Firstly, I’m way behind on this thread so apologies if this has already been mentioned.

Did anyone ever hear or read about the bin trucks and local landfill being checked. When on holidays I’ve noticed these trucks always arrive overnight or really early in the morning. To me that would be a very viable way of disposing of a body or evidence relating to a crime.

gozunda · 24-03-2019 09:57AM

Something Else

OwlsZat wrote: »

Your evidence is statistics? Works 100% of the time none of the time.

I do not understand either your question or tone there tbh. What I detailed above is expert opinion from a detective who has worked extensively in that area. Not something I would wish to delve into tbh but a search will show that that between 80 - 90 % of children are abused by someone by some known to them with the NSPCC pointing out that more than 90% of child sexual abuse is perpetrated by someone known to the child.

It's an absolutely horrible 'statistic' imo. And imo deflates much of the idea of the strange bogeyman imo. Unless of course that is the bogeyman that preys on children known to them. On the other hand it doesn't mean abuse by strangers is unknown or that there are other types of predators do not exist - just they're not as frequent as is often suggested by many and yes the official figures appear to show this is true.

gozunda · 24-03-2019 10:25AM

Something Else

Cork Lass wrote: »

Firstly, I’m way behind on this thread so apologies if this has already been mentioned.

Did anyone ever hear or read about the bin trucks and local landfill being checked. When on holidays I’ve noticed these trucks always arrive overnight or really early in the morning. To me that would be a very viable way of disposing of a body or evidence relating to a crime.

This was being discussed a few pages back when the discussion got abusive when it was suggested that not all the the bins were checked. Any alternative thought appears to attract personal attacks from a small but vocal minority of posters but that's how it is.I dropped out of that particular discussion after that tbh.

What I had read about this leads me to believe that not all the bins could have been searched. There's quite a good article looking at this here.

https://shininginluz.wordpress.com/2014/11/05/body-disposal-the-wheelie-bins-prosecution-case/

MonkieSocks · 24-03-2019 11:06AM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

[QUOTE=Creol1;Isn't there a question mark over a certain tennis bag? https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1573575/Gerry-McCanns-tennis-bag-is-focus-of-inquiry.html[/QUOTE]

A Sky News report claims that officers have been unable to locate a blue hold-all which Mr McCann allegedly used to carry his sports kit hours before his daughter vanished.

From 2nd August 2007

OBJECTS FOR EXAMINATION by Portuguese Police

Two main baggage identification tags 340816 and 340817

With Airport tags dated 28 April 2007, date of departure in England

_____________________________________________

This ( Picture Below) is the only Blue bag they brought to Portugal.

The Bag in the top left photo

Checked by Martin Grimes Dogs...no signal given.

No Blood or bodily fluids found by forensic people

There is a list of the luggage they brought with them and photos on this site.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/sitemap.htm

2 Luggage Bags checked in Airport England.

3 carry on bags seen in video of them where Madeline tripped getting on the plane.

There is a list of the luggage they brought with them and photos on this site.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/sitemap.htm

All above are listed as the bags taken by Portuguese Police on 2nd August 2007

Gerry McCann brought a rucksack to tennis, again it on the files above.

McCanns left England with 5 bags.................5 bags were taken by Portuguese Police on 2nd August 2007

Boom_Bap · 24-03-2019 11:23AM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

MOD

There are some folk here that are ruining the thread for everyone, cards have been dished out this morning after a review of the thread.

I'm left with the decision to continue with the thread bans or close the thread, honestly, some of the 'discussion' here over the weekend has been a disgrace.
I want to leave this running, so more to the thread ban list:

linman
dark crystal
cgcsb
Mike9832

Do not post in this thread again

If this thread banning and card issuing doesn't work, the thread will be closed

v638sg7k1a92bx · 24-03-2019 12:03PM

OwlsZat wrote: »

Your evidence is statistics?

Works 100% of the time none of the time.

Exactly. "There are lies, damn lies and there are statistics"

gozunda · 24-03-2019 12:07PM

Something Else

Tristen Hissing Typhoon wrote: »

Exactly. "There are lies, damn lies and there are statistics"

And then of course there's some who just like to stick their heads in the sand ... But there you go

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

retro:electro · 24-03-2019 12:14PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

If “sticking my head in the sand” means I’m not willing to accuse two parents of finding the body of their much wanted child and disposing of her in a bin because she was sedated and an ambulance wasn’t called because they didn’t want to lose their jobs that one of them hasn’t worked a day in since oh and she may or may not have been hidden in a freezer for three weeks or plopped in the sea like rubbish, without absolutely any proof to back up what are quite frankly disgusting claims - then off I go to get my bucket and shovel to bury my head some more because quite frankly I’d rather be buried then make disgraceful and baseless allegations like that.

v638sg7k1a92bx · 24-03-2019 12:15PM

Cork Lass wrote: »

Firstly, I’m way behind on this thread so apologies if this has already been mentioned.

Did anyone ever hear or read about the bin trucks and local landfill being checked. When on holidays I’ve noticed these trucks always arrive overnight or really early in the morning. To me that would be a very viable way of disposing of a body or evidence relating to a crime.

Dump a body in a bin? Hmm, I don't think anyone who has ever killed someone has ever thought about that, or maybe they have and realised it's not very smart and there is a very high risk of getting caught.

v638sg7k1a92bx · 24-03-2019 12:20PM

gozunda wrote: »

And then of course there's some who just like to stick their heads in the sand ... But there you go

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Did the Portuguese Police also stick there heads in the sand? Or maybe there are people like you who believe every wild conspiracy theory and conspiracy theory and when facts are pointed out , you spin it into another conspiracy theory.

P1: "Gerry McCann dumped the body in the sea and weighed it down"
P2: "Impossible, he would have to carried the body, rowed out to sea, dumped it in the ocean, rowed back and made it home in time for dinner without being noticed.
P1: "He could have had help from the criminal underworld"

gozunda · 24-03-2019 12:24PM

Something Else

retro:electro wrote: »

If “sticking my head in the sand” means I’m not willing to accuse two parents of finding the body of their much wanted child and disposing of her in a bin because she was sedated and an ambulance wasn’t called because they didn’t want to lose their jobs that one of them hasn’t worked a day in since oh and she may or may not have been hidden in a freezer for three weeks or plopped in the sea like rubbish, without absolutely any proof to back up what are quite frankly disgusting claims - then off I go to get my bucket and shovel to bury my head some more because quite frankly I’d rather be buried then make disgraceful and baseless allegations like that.

I believe we were referring to the known facts that children are most likely to be harmed or abused by someone known to them

However feel to have a rant about something else or what other posters think when quoting a post about official figures. It makes no difference at the end of the day.

gozunda · 24-03-2019 12:29PM

Something Else

Tristen Hissing Typhoon wrote: »

Did the Portuguese Police also stick there heads in the sand? Or maybe there are people like you who believe every wild conspiracy theory and conspiracy theory and when facts are pointed out , you spin it into another conspiracy theory.
P1: "Gerry McCann dumped the body in the sea and weighed it down"P2: "Impossible, he would have to carried the body, rowed out to sea, dumped it in the ocean, rowed back and made it home in time for dinner without being noticed.
P1: "He could have had help from the criminal underworld"

Is there a mad bunch of hangovers here this morning or somethinh?

Another rant about something else entirely

.
Again the Quote refers to the fact that children are more likley to be harmed or abused by someone known to them.

It's a stand alone fact. Deny whatever in the way you like. It makes no difference to me tbh.

retro:electro · 24-03-2019 12:30PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

gozunda wrote: »

I believe we were referring to the known facts that children are most likely to be harmed or abused by someone known to them

Hiwever feel feel to have a rant about something else though when quoting that. It makes no difference at the end of the day.

“More likely” doesn’t mean exclusively or only, and more importantly it doesn’t mean stranger danger is an anomaly that never happens. With every rule there are exceptions to that rule, maybe it is your good self who is sticking their head in the sand for what seems to be a failure to acknowledge that.
And thanks, I will.

v638sg7k1a92bx · 24-03-2019 12:32PM

gozunda wrote: »

I believe we were referring to the known facts that children are most likely to be harmed or abused by someone known to them

Hiwever feel feel to have a rant about something else though when quoting that. It makes no difference at the end of the day.

You feel free to keep making up wild conspiracy theories and no matter what evidence that is put to you, you just ignore the facts and move onto the next theory.

For example, this is what you said a few pages back:

cgcsb wrote: »

Not really. Maddie could have been stripped, weighted down and thrown into the ocean by Gerry McCann that night. Her clothes and teddy need only have been in the car and apartment after the fact. The body storage theory isn't required in this scenario. Agreed they turned that town upside down looking for a child or a body, unlikely that the body could have been stored. There was no sub-aqua search though and the thing about the sea is it gets rid of evidence pretty thoroughly.

this was the reply which completely rules that out as a possible scenario:

Tristen Hissing Typhoon wrote: »

Ok, so now he carried a dead body through the town, took a boat into the sea, dumped a body in the sea, rowed back to shore, carried the child's clothes with him, went back to the dinner table and pretend nothing happened?

Your response is to just ignore that answer, which makes your suggestion laughable, and then you move onto the next conspiracy theory.

I don't think there is any point in responding to these conspiracy theorists anymore because no matter what evidence is presented to them they will not accept the facts and just rely on hearsay, false reportage and the old reliable answer to everything that it was a Government conspiracy.

iamwhoiam · 24-03-2019 12:32PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

The pages and and pages of images that Rui Pedros mum had to wade through tells me that " stranger danger " is a real and frightening reality unfortunately

gozunda · 24-03-2019 12:35PM

Something Else

retro:electro wrote: »

“More likely” doesn’t mean exclusively or only, and more importantly it doesn’t mean stranger danger is an anomaly that never happens. With every rule there are exceptions to that rule, maybe it is your good self who is sticking their head in the sand for what seems to be a failure to acknowledge that. And thanks, I will.

Why the attack on anyone who doesn't tow your line in your comments? This is what you replied to official facts on children being abused by those known to them.

Disgraceful and baseless allegations like that

quite frankly disgusting claims

If you read what I wrote and didn't jump off the deep end screaming - you will see what I have already clearly stated the exceptions. But for some strange reason that didnt stop you...

gozunda wrote:

It's an absolutely horrible 'statistic' imo. And imo deflates much of the idea of the strange bogeyman imo. Unless of course that is the bogeyman that preys on children known to them. On the other hand it doesn't mean abuse by strangers is unknown or that there are other types of predators do not exist - just they're not as frequent as is often suggested by many and yes the official figures appear to show this is true.

I won't wait for an apology ...

strandroad · 24-03-2019 12:36PM

The parents did it

How would the bins make any sense for anyone?

If she was abducted, why would the abductor kill and dispose of her immediately, without doing what they abduct children for?

If it's the parents covering up an accident, perhaps a single parent could dump her in such a manner if they were a sociopath through and through, but there is no conceivable way they could talk the other parent into it in such short timeframes, and then both keep showing up in the public eye for 12 years to bring the spotlight on themselves again and again.

Bins are often searched in such cases too so it's the last place I would choose to hide a body.

cnocbui · 24-03-2019 12:37PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Cork Lass wrote: »

Firstly, I’m way behind on this thread so apologies if this has already been mentioned.

Did anyone ever hear or read about the bin trucks and local landfill being checked. When on holidays I’ve noticed these trucks always arrive overnight or really early in the morning. To me that would be a very viable way of disposing of a body or evidence relating to a crime.

The nanny, Catriona, says she and the resort staff searched the bins, not just by looking in them but sifting through them. I presume this was moving aside the top layer of bags and not all the way to the bottom - which I think would have been wholly unnecessary. She states that that not all the bins wear searched, but I don't think they needed to be. I think you would have a rapidly decreasing likelihood a bin was used, with distance from the apartment, it being very unlikely anyone would carry a childs body to the furthermost bin in the town from the apartment. Clearly the bins near the apartment were searched, so there being bins further away that weren't, I think doesn't matter as they wouldn't have been used.

The municipal landfill was searched at least cursorily.

The official police files on the case say a team searched all 188 bins in the town. I am wondering why they would bother doing that if they knew the bins had already been emptied at 4 am as it is often claimed they were. Perhaps the bins weren't emptied, which is why they conducted a search?

gozunda · 24-03-2019 12:38PM

Something Else

iamwhoiam wrote: »

The pages and and pages of images that Rui Pedros mum had to wade through tells me that " stranger danger " is a real and frightening reality unfortunately

The sad thing is that it would appear that many of those images are being produced by people known to those children. I read an absolutely harrowing report on this issue. And no Im not going to quote it here.

retro:electro · 24-03-2019 12:38PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

gozunda wrote: »

Why do you have to attack anyone who doesn't tow your line in your comments?

I didn’t attack you? Very strange comment out of you, and ironic to boot when you consider how you respond to people:

gozunda wrote: »

Is there a mad bunch of hangovers here this morning or something?

gozunda wrote: »

Tickets- seriously are you feeling quite well?.

gozunda wrote: »

If you read what I wrote and didn't jump off the deep end screaming

And those are only the ones in the last few minutes.

*shrugs*

retro:electro · 24-03-2019 12:39PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

iamwhoiam wrote: »

The pages and and pages of images that Rui Pedros mum had to wade through tells me that " stranger danger " is a real and frightening reality unfortunately

The world can truly be a depraved place. We don’t even know the half of what is going on

v638sg7k1a92bx · 24-03-2019 12:42PM

gozunda wrote: »

The sad thing is that it would appear that many of those images are being produced by people known to those children. I read an absolutely harrowing report on this issue. And no Im not going to quote it here.

Here we go again. Just like I said in my last post.

Facts are presented to you to refute your claims and you just spin that into another conspiracy. "Oh well, how do we know who took the pictures?"

How do you know those pictures were produced by "people known to the children". Is this all part of the pact of silence theory that you are still clinging on to?

iamwhoiam · 24-03-2019 12:42PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

gozunda wrote: »

The sad thing is that it would appear that many of those images are being produced by people known to those children. I read an absolutely harrowing report on this issue. And no Im not going to quote it here.

Oh I know and that is so shocking too . Its distressing to even contemplate it
My heart breaks for any child let down by adults and its almost incomprehensible to understand it .
Aside from the obvious horror of sexual abuse I abhor neglect , indifference , and lack of protection for kids too .

gozunda · 24-03-2019 12:43PM

Something Else

Tristen Hissing Typhoon wrote: »

You feel free to keep making up wild conspiracy theories and no matter what evidence that is put to you, you just ignore the facts and move onto the next theory.
For example, this is what you said a few pages back:this was the reply which completely rules that out as a possible scenario:
Your response is to just ignore that answer, which makes your suggestion laughable, and then you move onto the next conspiracy theory.
I don't think there is any point in responding to these conspiracy theorists anymore because no matter what evidence is presented to them they will not accept the facts and just rely on hearsay, false reportage and the old reliable answer to everything that it was a Government conspiracy.

Tickets- seriously are you feeling quite well? That's not my Quote. Take a good look at what you quoted.

Just because other posters are discussing other issues relating to this case DOES NOT make them conspiracy theorists. Attacking other posters because they may hold other opinions is not only bullying it goes against the the very idea of fair discussion.

Tbh I have quite enough of you and others ridiculous attacks on this thread.

iamwhoiam · 24-03-2019 12:45PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

retro:electro wrote: »

The world can truly be a depraved place. We don’t even know the half of what is going on

Thats the sad thing , we are distant from it and helpless to reach out

Madeleine McCann

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