Madeleine McCann

limnam · 22-03-2019 03:23PM

cgcsb wrote: »

None of that can explain why Kate McCann would tamper with the window. The abductor left through the door if he exists. Madeline could have even been at the bottom of the Atlantic before the McCanns went out do dinner.

Doesn't explain why Gerry changed his statment on how he enetered. First a key, then no key. Bizzare

iamwhoiam · 22-03-2019 03:29PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

limnam wrote: »

Doesn't explain why Gerry changed his statment on how he enetered. First a key, then no key. Bizzare

Possibly he was trying to cover up that he left his children in an unlocked apartment .
The sliding door could only be locked from the inside anyway so keys for it were irrelevant I presume ?

limnam · 22-03-2019 03:32PM

iamwhoiam wrote: »

Possibly he was trying to cover up that he left his children in an unlocked apartment .
The sliding door could only be locked from the inside anyway so keys for it were irrelevant I presume ?

I imagine it could be opened with a key both sides.

Still, when information is critical.

seems like an odd time to lie

iamwhoiam · 22-03-2019 03:33PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

limnam wrote: »

I imagine it could be opened with a key both sides.

Still, when information is critical.

seems like an odd time to lie

Oh absolutely , the lies are baffling but then so is a lot of the Mc Canns decisions

v638sg7k1a92bx · 22-03-2019 03:34PM

cgcsb wrote: »

By her own words she said they left, the outer blind and window was closed, when she returned to the scene she felt a breeze and seen the open window. We know the following:

- Blind and window only open from inside
- window was clean of prints except the palm print of Kate McCann on the glass where she applied pressure to the window in the open direction, something you'd do to avoid leaving a print on the handle.
-The curtains remained tucked in
-No shoe prints on the window ledge or bed
-window ledge is about 2m high off the pavement, no way to climb out while carrying a child

the only conclusion is abductor left through the door and Kate tampered with the window for some reason or the abductor story is false.

So she remembered not to leave her print on the handle but forgot about that she left her print on the glass? Or maybe she did that on purpose because that's what she wanted you to think, ever think of that?
What is more likely is that somebody could have come into the room considered getting out the window and realised it was too high, walked out the front door. Either way it makes no difference. People forget these minor details all the time, sometimes I forget to close a window when I was sure I did, sometimes I forget to lock a door or leave the iron on and I could swear I turned it off.

I don't understand how people latch onto these meaningless details as if this is somehow an indication of guilt.

SteM · 22-03-2019 03:35PM

This is what I can't understand about this thread. Someone says that 2 parents could have disposed of their child's body by putting it in the sea without being seen doing it and it's never found. But then they'll say that there is no way someone could climb out of a 2 metre high window with a 4 year old in their arms. Why is one straightforward but the other thing impossible?

I believe that it is possible for someone to climb out a 2m high window with a child in their arms but I don't think it was necessary. If there ware 2 people involved the child could easily have been passed out the window to someone standing outside.

BloodBath · 22-03-2019 03:36PM

Something Else

SusieBlue wrote: »

Maybe the abductor left it open intentionally as a red herring, or maybe h/she was going to leave via the window but when he saw the obstacles, he decided not to bother and left via the door?
And maybe he left it open because as others have pointed out, it was noisy to open/close and he didn't want to wake the twins?

Kate could have left her fingerprints on that window at any point from the time they checked into the apartment, it doesn't mean she exclusively touched it that night.

And the PJ/GNR didn't seal off the room or the apartment, they allowed everyone and anyone traipse through it in the aftermath so its likely someone well meaning closed it at that point.
There was a breeze as you said yourself.

The window theory could look entirely innocent or entirely guilty depending on your outlook.

Oh yes blame the police. The majority of the trampling of the apartment was done prior to the police even getting there by the McCanns, their friends and the hotel staff looking for a missing child. There was nothing the police could have done about that and at that point it was a missing child case, not an abduction case. Searching the apartment is pretty standard. It had not yet become a crime scene.

SusieBlue · 22-03-2019 03:39PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

BloodBath wrote: »

Oh yes blame the police. The majority of the trampling of the apartment was done prior to the police even getting there by the McCanns, their friends and the hotel staff looking for a missing child. There was nothing the police could have done about that and at that point it was a missing child case, not an abduction case. Searching the apartment is pretty standard. It had not yet become a crime scene.

Well yes, it is the responsibility of the police to seal off and preserve crime scenes.
Its not the responsibility of civilians.
Who knows what evidence might have been found if it had been adequately sealed off for forensics.

I agree with you that searching the apartment is pretty standard, but by that token, you need to accept that some of the searching might have contaminated any potential evidence left behind by an abductor.
That's not an unreasonable assumption to make.

BloodBath · 22-03-2019 03:42PM

Something Else

SusieBlue wrote: »

Well yes, it is the responsibility of the police to seal off and preserve crime scenes.
Its not the responsibility of civilians.
Who knows what evidence might have been found if it had been adequately sealed off for forensics.

I agree with you that searching the apartment is pretty standard, but by that token, you need to accept that some of the searching might have contaminated any potential evidence left behind by an abductor.
That's not an unreasonable assumption to make.

Did you even read what I posted?

Tomw86 · 22-03-2019 03:42PM

Something Else

In my opinion, and it is just that - an opinion - there was no abduction that night, or not one that was not pre-planned/arranged.

My reasons are;
1) There is no evidence of anyone else entering or being seeing coming out of the apartment.
2) There is no forensic evidence of anyone else inside the apartment other than the McCanns (albeit a lot of this was tainted by police entering it so quickly)
3) Kate McCann stating ''she's been taken'' or whatever it was straight away.
4) The conflicting stories off the Tapas 9
5) The conflicting details given to police by the McCanns themselves.
6) The sedation of the kids and the door being left unlocked.
7) Certain evidence pointing at the McCanns being involved - Kate palm print on window, cadaver dogs, sightings, sedation!

Although I am not 100% convinced on the above, it is what I feel is most lilkely!

Necro · 22-03-2019 03:42PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

iamwhoiam wrote: »

Oh absolutely , the lies are baffling but then so is a lot of the Mc Canns decisions

And this is exactly why you have all the theories floating around, because the behaviour of the Mc Canns before and after the incident was absolutely bonkers.

In the case of it being an abduction then they've already fcuked up, one of the worse things in the world that can happen has happened as a result of their actions.

Why lie, change your statements and do things that impede the possibility of Madeline being found.

It's not normal behaviour. And it's why I have such a hard time aligning an abduction in this case as their behaviour afterwards was counterproductive to the investigation.

For what? Saving face? They've already created a scenario where the child was able to be abducted, it can't get much worse than that.

So why lie or change your story at all?

v638sg7k1a92bx · 22-03-2019 03:43PM

micks_address wrote: »

i have no idea if the fridge thing is real but if it is, then it would certainly lean me toward believing amarals theory re refrigeration and then body disposal in the Renault scenic and the dogs etc.. again a big IF there on the fridge story being real

Lets walk through that scenario.

1. A dead body, which is too big to fit in a fridge,
2. Being secretly hidden by the parents who are being watched by police and world media
3. The fridge requires a power supply to keep the body cold so it has to be stored indoors and connected to a power supply.
4. Is then moved by the parent 3 weeks later in a rental car to be disposed of while the police and media are following them everywhere.

So all this time nobody notices the parents hiding a dead body in a fridge which is plugged in their apartment because if it wasn't the body would stink. Before you say "oh well it could of been in their friends apartment" How would that conversation with their friend go, "excuse me dear friend, I'm going to hide this, fridge which is too small to fit a body, in your apartment for 3 weeks, promise not to tell anyone about if and I'll be you bff".

This theory is so farcical that you cannot but question the emotional intelligence of someone who would take it seriously

cgcsb · 22-03-2019 03:43PM

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iamwhoiam wrote: »

I dont know how involved or if at all they were but they sure made it easy for anyone to take Madeleine .Having seen the location with my own eyes I can bet my last euro that they would not have left their credit cards on the table in that apartment that night . In fact they were lucky not all three were taken if the perpetrator was an opportunist . The apartment could not be seen from the Tapas bar unless you had super vision and stood in a chair eating your dinner , and then only the one side of it . The steps to the sliding door were openly accessable from a public road and the three kids were neglectefully left in a high risk , dangerous position . Shame on anyone who would do that for a quiet dinner .

Even ignoring for the moment the possibility of an intruder, they are doctors so they are well aware that the majority of accidents happen in the home and knowing this they left their toddlers alone with lots of opportunity for self-harm, lots of hot water and sharp kitchen utensils lying around, this is a serious risk, but I guess they knew that and that's why the kids got sedated.

Tomw86 · 22-03-2019 03:50PM

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Tristen Hissing Typhoon wrote: »

Lets walk through that scenario.

1. A dead body, which is too big to fit in a fridge,
2. Being secretly hidden by the parents who are being watched by police and world media
3. The fridge requires a power supply to keep the body cold so it has to be stored indoors and connected to a power supply.
4. Is then moved by the parent 3 weeks later in a rental car to be disposed of while the police and media are following them everywhere.

So all this time nobody notices the parents hiding a dead body in a fridge which is plugged in their apartment because if it wasn't the body would stink. Before you say "oh well it could of been in their friends apartment" How would that conversation with their friend go, "excuse me dear friend, I'm going to hide this, fridge which is too small to fit a body, in your apartment for 3 weeks, promise not to tell anyone about if and I'll be you bff".

This theory is so farcical that you cannot but question the emotional intelligence of someone who would take it seriously

I agree, I don't think a fridge was used to hide/transport a possible dead body! It would have been picked up on straight away and surely the itinerary of what is in each apartment was checked!

SusieBlue · 22-03-2019 03:51PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

BloodBath wrote: »

Did you even read what I posted?

Yes? It is the police's fault that the apartment wasn't preserved.
And it is likely that possible evidence was contaminated during the search while the apartment was being searched, before it was sealed off.

I responded to what you directly posted so I'm confused at your reply.

cgcsb · 22-03-2019 03:51PM

Something Else

Tristen Hissing Typhoon wrote: »

So she remembered not to leave her print on the handle but forgot about that she left her print on the glass?

Why would you open the window with the palm of your hand on the glass, something you'd do to avoid leaving a print on the handle, where you know the police will take prints

Tristen Hissing Typhoon wrote: »

What is more likely is that somebody could have come into the room considered getting out the window and realised it was too high, walked out the front door.

If she was abducted, it was a slick operation and the apartment was being watched for some time, an abductor would have surely noted possible entries and exists and noted that the bedroom window was too high long before he attempted to pull off the job.

v638sg7k1a92bx · 22-03-2019 03:54PM

Tomw86 wrote: »

In my opinion, and it is just that - an opinion - there was no abduction that night, or not one that was not pre-planned/arranged.

My reasons are;
1) There is no evidence of anyone else entering or being seeing coming out of the apartment.
2) There is no forensic evidence of anyone else inside the apartment other than the McCanns (albeit a lot of this was tainted by police entering it so quickly)
3) Kate McCann stating ''she's been taken'' or whatever it was straight away.
4) The conflicting stories off the Tapas 9
5) The conflicting details given to police by the McCanns themselves.
6) The sedation of the kids and the door being left unlocked.
7) Certain evidence pointing at the McCanns being involved - Kate palm print on window, cadaver dogs, sightings, sedation!

Although I am not 100% convinced on the above, it is what I feel is most lilkely!

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, and who said the kids were sedated?

yourdeadwright · 22-03-2019 03:56PM

Accident happened, parents hid body

Tristen Hissing Typhoon wrote: »

Lets walk through that scenario.

1. A dead body, which is too big to fit in a fridge,
2. Being secretly hidden by the parents who are being watched by police and world media
3. The fridge requires a power supply to keep the body cold so it has to be stored indoors and connected to a power supply.
4. Is then moved by the parent 3 weeks later in a rental car to be disposed of while the police and media are following them everywhere.

So all this time nobody notices the parents hiding a dead body in a fridge which is plugged in their apartment because if it wasn't the body would stink. Before you say "oh well it could of been in their friends apartment" How would that conversation with their friend go, "excuse me dear friend, I'm going to hide this, fridge which is too small to fit a body, in your apartment for 3 weeks, promise not to tell anyone about if and I'll be you bff".

This theory is so farcical that you cannot but question the emotional intelligence of someone who would take it seriously

No fridge needed straight Into the bins that where collected every night

gozunda · 22-03-2019 03:57PM

Something Else

tickers wrote:

I don't understand how people latch onto these meaningless details as if this is somehow an indication of guilt.

I'm not sure that is the case most of the time tbh. There problem lies in that so much what is known about this case makes no sense whatsoever. I reckon it's highly unlikely the case will be solved at this stage. And by being solved I mean finding out what really happened to the child.

v638sg7k1a92bx · 22-03-2019 04:01PM

cgcsb wrote: »

Why would you open the window with the palm of your hand on the glass, something you'd do to avoid leaving a print on the handle, where you know the police will take prints

You don't think that though would cross somebody's mind. "oh I'll make sure not to leave my print on the handle but it's ok to leave a print on the glass because the police will never look there even though it's only a few inches from the handle" Ridiculous

cgcsb wrote: »

If she was abducted, it was a slick operation and the apartment was being watched for some time, an abductor would have surely noted possible entries and exists and noted that the bedroom window was too high long before he attempted to pull off the job.

By the same account, do you not think the mother would have noticed not to leave a palm print on the glass?

Even if her palm print is on the glass, So what! They lived there, their prints were everywhere.

yourdeadwright · 22-03-2019 04:02PM

Accident happened, parents hid body

|If she was abducted by a gang , someone would have come forward by now, some thing would have been heard in the underworld, someone would have ratted someone out, some pics would be found on computers,
Never a peep out of the underworld about her not even the slightest thing ,

Its always the simplest obvious thing, Parent put her in the bins, bins where collected and put in the land fill and nothing ever heard from her again ,

v638sg7k1a92bx · 22-03-2019 04:02PM

yourdeadwright wrote: »

No fridge needed straight Into the bins that where collected every night

So you've just debunked the DNA theory in the car and what evidence do you have to suggest that a body was dumped in the bin.

Both the Portuguese police and Scotland yard have said there is no evidence to suggest the child is dead.

Tomw86 · 22-03-2019 04:03PM

Something Else

Tristen Hissing Typhoon wrote: »

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, and who said the kids were sedated?

The sedation is widely accepted as having happened. I am not sure if there is actual proof of it though.

Like I said, it's my opinion, I am not putting forward a definite theory as this is impossible.

v638sg7k1a92bx · 22-03-2019 04:04PM

Tomw86 wrote: »

The sedation is widely accepted as having happened. I am not sure if there is actual proof of it though.

Like I said, it's my opinion, I am not putting forward a definite theory as this is impossible.

Widely accepted by who? Only people who are peddling the notion that the parents were involved. Please show me the police file, testimony or witness statement that says the parents sedated their daughter.

v638sg7k1a92bx · 22-03-2019 04:05PM

yourdeadwright wrote: »

|If she was abducted by a gang , someone would have come forward by now, some thing would have been heard in the underworld, someone would have ratted someone out, some pics would be found on computers,
Never a peep out of the underworld about her not even the slightest thing ,

Its always the simplest obvious thing, Parent put her in the bins, bins where collected and put in the land fill and nothing ever heard from her again ,

So you have the inside track on what's going on in the underworld? Good man.

gozunda · 22-03-2019 04:06PM

Something Else

Tristen Hissing Typhoon wrote: »

Lets walk through that scenario.
1. A dead body, which is too big to fit in a fridge,
2. Being secretly hidden by the parents who are being watched by police and world media
3. The fridge requires a power supply to keep the body cold so it has to be stored indoors and connected to a power supply.
4. Is then moved by the parent 3 weeks later in a rental car to be disposed of while the police and media are following them everywhere.
So all this time nobody notices the parents hiding a dead body in a fridge which is plugged in their apartment because if it wasn't the body would stink. Before you say "oh well it could of been in their friends apartment" How would that conversation with their friend go, "excuse me dear friend, I'm going to hide this, fridge which is too small to fit a body, in your apartment for 3 weeks, promise not to tell anyone about if and I'll be you bff".This theory is so farcical that you cannot but question the emotional intelligence of someone who would take it seriously

I think it has been established that we have no idea what the Fridge was like or whether it was that other types of cold storage was used. The thing is that McCanns moved from their apartment to another apartment and then to a stand alone villa on a cul de sac afaik. Certainly up to and including August they were not suspects and the police were not 'watching' them. So yeah they moved a few times. Is all this fairly incredible? Possibly but it is not as incredible as a child disappearing in the night whilst multiple people supposedly were checking on them and having dinner (according to themselves) only a short distance away ....

weldoninhio · 22-03-2019 04:06PM

Something Else

SteM wrote: »

This is what I can't understand about this thread. Someone says that 2 parents could have disposed of their child's body by putting it in the sea without being seen doing it and it's never found. But then they'll say that there is no way someone could climb out of a 2 metre high window with a 4 year old in their arms. Why is one straightforward but the other thing impossible?

I believe that it is possible for someone to climb out a 2m high window with a child in their arms but I don't think it was necessary. If there ware 2 people involved the child could easily have been passed out the window to someone standing outside.

It is 100% possible to climb out a window with a 4yr old in your arms.

It is impossible to climb out a window with a 4yr old in your arms without disturbing the dry moss/lichen on the outside windowsill.

v638sg7k1a92bx · 22-03-2019 04:06PM

Tomw86 wrote: »

The sedation is widely accepted as having happened. I am not sure if there is actual proof of it though.

Like I said, it's my opinion, I am not putting forward a definite theory as this is impossible.

An opinion based on ignorance and lack of understanding of the facts.

weldoninhio · 22-03-2019 04:07PM

Something Else

BloodBath wrote: »

Did you even read what I posted?

They obviously should have sealed it off before they arrived, useless Portuguese cops :P

yourdeadwright · 22-03-2019 04:07PM

Accident happened, parents hid body

Tristen Hissing Typhoon wrote: »

So you've just debunked the DNA theory in the car and what evidence do you have to suggest that a body was dumped in the bin.

Both the Portuguese police and Scotland yard have said there is no evidence to suggest the child is dead.

How is the car Debunked ?
She didn't ever have to be in the car for the dogs to bark , her clothes is all that had to be there , I never thought she was in the car whjy hold onto the body that long, when there was bin outside your apartment that was collected every night,

"Both the Portuguese police and Scotland yard have said there is no evidence to suggest the child is dead "

They have zero evidence of anything,

Think about it logically, think of all the rings and traffickers caught since, Anyone of them would have time reduced if they had information on Maddy and told the police, but never a single peep about her,

She was not abducted no evidence of anyone ever taking her ,No even valid theory ,

Madeleine McCann

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