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Madeleine McCann

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  • #4112
    yourdeadwright
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,953 ✭✭✭✭yourdeadwright


    Accident happened, parents hid body
    Tristen Hissing Typhoon wrote: »
    Nobody can be convicted on the evidence of sniffer dogs alone.

    The suggestions that the parents hid a child's body for 3 weeks in a warm climate, rented a car, moved the body, disposed of it and did this while they were under suspicion from the police and had the world's media watching their every move is fantasy.

    That you put more faith in dogs than you do in the parents says more about you than it does them.

    What if they bumped her In the bins that where collect at 4 am the night she went missing, Straight to the landfill which was never checked ,

    its so easy and so simply ,

    If they had removed the clothes she wore and at some stage had them in the car they would have been what was smelled by the dog,

    How after millions of pounds spent, 12 years of looing by , FBI, Scotland yard , Million's of photos of trafficked children found in that time, Trawling the dark web, listening in to trafficking gangs, Have they never heard a single thing about Maddy ?

    Surely they would have heard something, The case was so world wide someone in a gang wold have looked for cash to rat someone out, there would have been some kind of chatter about it ,

    I believe they never heard a thing because no one took her, it makes the most sense,


  • #4113
    cnocbui
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,174 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)
    cgcsb wrote: »
    The dogs were specifically trained to find humans

    Cadaver dogs will also react to dead pigs - not that I am claiming that has anything to do with this case, but they are not 100% specific. No independent scientific testing has ever shown them to not give false positives. Such testing has shown them to false positive about 10% of the time.


  • #4114
    cgcsb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,046 ✭✭✭✭cgcsb


    Something Else
    pc7 wrote: »
    Why aren’t governments doing more to try crack/find and destroy these peodophile rings. With so many found in the wonderland photos (I cant read up on it is too upsetting), where are those kids like Rui Pedro. How can so many be taken, hidden and never ever found.

    There just isn't the interest and finance available for them that was made available for the McCanns. I say McCanns and not Madeline, because none of the PR and various gagging orders, book bannings etc. done anything to help her if she's still living.


  • #4115
    v638sg7k1a92bx
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,913 ✭✭✭v638sg7k1a92bx


    weldoninhio wrote: »
    Eye witness testimony is unreliable, yet we are to believe the tapas 7's multiple edited version of events :rolleyes:

    So you're suggesting that seven different people came up with a story to conceal a murder and that all seven managed to cover this up for the last 12 years while the investigation has been poured over by police in two difference jurisdictions?

    It would be unusual if 7 multiple people all gave the same story. As I've said several times. If we took you and six of your friends on a night out and the next day asked each of you to give an account of what happened, 100% guarantee your stories would not match.


  • #4116
    limnam
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,345 ✭✭✭limnam


    cnocbui wrote: »
    Cadaver dogs will also react to dead pigs - not that I am claiming that has anything to do with this case, but they are not 100% specific. No independent scientific testing has ever shown them to not give false positives. Such testing has shown them to false positive about 10% of the time.




    Did MArtin state that his dog would alert on dead pig?


    So there was a dead pig behind their couch and in their car.


    How odd!


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  • #4117
    cgcsb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,046 ✭✭✭✭cgcsb


    Something Else
    spaceHopper wrote: »
    or the Police cocked up the investigation, wanted a conviction so staged the cadaver search by getting something that had been on a body from a mortuary and rubbing it around the apartment.

    Video of the dog searching the car, he had to be brought back to the drivers door, how did they know to do that.

    Ah here


  • #4118
    cgcsb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,046 ✭✭✭✭cgcsb


    Something Else
    Boom_Bap wrote: »
    The laws around it are also not black and white, I think in the UK you can be arrested on suspicion or if you are trying to groom a child.
    In Ireland you can only be arrested after the fact rather than preemptively. I'm open to correction on that though.

    But in both Ireland and the UK owning such images or distributing them is a crime.


  • #4119
    v638sg7k1a92bx
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,913 ✭✭✭v638sg7k1a92bx


    yourdeadwright wrote: »
    What if they bumped her In the bins that where collect at 4 am the night she went missing, Straight to the landfill which was never checked ,

    its so easy and so simply ,

    If they had removed the clothes she wore and at some stage had them in the car they would have been what was smelled by the dog,

    How after millions of pounds spent, 12 years of looing by , FBI, Scotland yard , Million's of photos of trafficked children found in that time, Trawling the dark web, listening in to trafficking gangs, Have they never heard a single thing about Maddy ?

    Surely they would have heard something, The case was so world wide someone in a gang wold have looked for cash to rat someone out, there would have been some kind of chatter about it ,

    I believe they never heard a thing because no one took her, it makes the most sense,

    So you're suggesting that cadaver scent leaked into her clothes minutes after she was supposedly killed, and that was carried around on her clothes for weeks afterwards and eventually picked up by a sniffer dog 3 weeks later?


  • #4120
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    Tristen Hissing Typhoon wrote:
    So you're suggesting that seven different people came up with a story to conceal a murder and that all seven managed to cover this up for the last 12 years while the investigation has been poured over by police in two difference jurisdictions?


    And these same two police forces also couldn't find evidence of an abduction in that 12 years either.


  • #4121
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    cnocbui wrote:
    Cadaver dogs will also react to dead pigs .


    Had the McCanns a pet pig in the apartment?


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  • #4122
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 4,806 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Something Else
    cnocbui wrote: »
    Cadaver dogs will also react to dead pigs - not that I am claiming that has anything to do with this case, but they are not 100% specific. No independent scientific testing has ever shown them to not give false positives. Such testing has shown them to false positive about 10% of the time.

    I don't doubt that the dogs can occasionally get things wrong. I also very much understand that the dogs alone is not to convict a person.

    But for both dogs to be signalling on more than one occasion in apartment 5A and the car when they didn't signal in the other apartments or cars is a pretty good indication that they are onto something.

    The dogs picking up on her dead body and the lack of any evidence that an abduction took place tells the story.

    The signs are all there, but for some reason everybody including Scotland Yard are running around looking for an abductor that doesn't exist.


  • #4123
    v638sg7k1a92bx
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,913 ✭✭✭v638sg7k1a92bx


    cgcsb wrote: »
    Ah here

    How do you know the cops didn't do that? They were trying to stitch the parents up for the murder and the lead investigator was a formal suspect in another case of a missing child where the police were suspected of interfering with evidence. The same lead investigator also suggested the same theory that the body have been kept in a fridge.


  • #4124
    cnocbui
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,174 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)
    Tristen Hissing Typhoon wrote: »
    Nobody can be convicted on the evidence of sniffer dogs alone.

    The suggestions that the parents hid a child's body for 3 weeks in a warm climate, rented a car, moved the body, disposed of it and did this while they were under suspicion from the police and had the world's media watching their every move is fantasy.

    That you put more faith in dogs than you do in the parents says more about you than it does them.

    The McCanns had never been to PDL before. They didn't know the area. Four trained sniffer dogs were assisting the search from 08:00 the following morning - four more were brought in later that evening, bring it to 8 trained sniffer/SAR dogs scouring the apartment complex - they even went into apartments - and the resort in general. They checked bins, drains pipes - all with local knowledge and guidance. How could two people unfamiliar with the area hide a body successfully in a very short time window, from local people who knew the area and with a pack of sniffer SAR dogs? It's ridiculous to believe that to be possible.


  • #4125
    v638sg7k1a92bx
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,913 ✭✭✭v638sg7k1a92bx


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I don't doubt that the dogs can occasionally get things wrong. I also very much understand that the dogs alone is not to convict a person.

    But for both dogs to be signalling on more than one occasion in apartment 5A and the car when they didn't signal in the other apartments or cars is a pretty good indication that they are onto something.

    The dogs picking up on her dead body and the lack of any evidence that an abduction took place tells the story.

    The signs are all there, but for some reason everybody including Scotland Yard are running around looking for an abductor that doesn't exist.

    How do you know it doesn't exist. Do you think that your better placed to conduct an investigation than Scotland Yard who spend their entire careers investigation circumstances like these?
    What makes you think that your interpretation of an animal barking at a teddy bear is indication of a persons guilt than a team of 30 police investigators?


  • #4126
    cgcsb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,046 ✭✭✭✭cgcsb


    Something Else
    Tristen Hissing Typhoon wrote: »
    Nobody can be convicted on the evidence of sniffer dogs alone.

    The suggestions that the parents hid a child's body for 3 weeks in a warm climate, rented a car, moved the body, disposed of it and did this while they were under suspicion from the police and had the world's media watching their every move is fantasy.

    That you put more faith in dogs than you do in the parents says more about you than it does them.

    Not really. Maddie could have been stripped, weighted down and thrown into the ocean by Gerry McCann that night. Her clothes and teddy need only have been in the car and apartment after the fact. The body storage theory isn't required in this scenario. Agreed they turned that town upside down looking for a child or a body, unlikely that the body could have been stored. There was no sub-aqua search though and the thing about the sea is it gets rid of evidence pretty thoroughly.


  • #4127
    v638sg7k1a92bx
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,913 ✭✭✭v638sg7k1a92bx


    cnocbui wrote: »
    The McCanns had never been to PDL before. They didn't know the area. Four trained sniffer dogs were assisting the search from 08:00 the following morning - four more were brought in later that evening, bring it to 8 trained sniffer/SAR dogs scouring the apartment complex - they even went into apartments - and the resort in general. They checked bins, drains pipes - all with local knowledge and guidance. How could two people unfamiliar with the area hide a body successfully in a very short time window, from local people who knew the area and with a pack of sniffer SAR dogs? It's ridiculous to believe that to be possible.

    Read my post again, that's exactly what I've been saying.


  • #4128
    cnocbui
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,174 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)
    yourdeadwright wrote: »
    What if they bumped her In the bins that where collect at 4 am the night she went missing, Straight to the landfill which was never checked ,

    its so easy and so simply ,

    If they had removed the clothes she wore and at some stage had them in the car they would have been what was smelled by the dog,

    How after millions of pounds spent, 12 years of looing by , FBI, Scotland yard , Million's of photos of trafficked children found in that time, Trawling the dark web, listening in to trafficking gangs, Have they never heard a single thing about Maddy ?

    Surely they would have heard something, The case was so world wide someone in a gang wold have looked for cash to rat someone out, there would have been some kind of chatter about it ,

    I believe they never heard a thing because no one took her, it makes the most sense,

    The bins were one of the first things that were searched, according to the nanny (Catriona). There were, I think, 9 GNR officers searching from 02:00 onward. If the Mark Warner staff could think to check the bins, I am sure they could too.


  • #4129
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    Tristen Hissing Typhoon wrote:
    How do you know it doesn't exist. Do you think that your better placed to conduct an investigation than Scotland Yard who spend their entire careers investigation circumstances like these? What makes you think that your interpretation of an animal barking at a teddy bear is indication of a persons guilt than a team of 30 police investigators?


    Collin Sutton the detective asked to head up the investigation on behalf of the Met in 2010 turned down the job after a senior colleague phoned him to tell him his job would be to prove the McCanns innocent and only pursue an investigation into abduction all other avenues were closed. 30 police investigators after years of investigation to-date have found no evidence of abduction, at least Eddie found something .


  • #4130
    cnocbui
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,174 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)
    Tristen Hissing Typhoon wrote: »
    Read my post again, that's exactly what I've been saying.

    I know, I wasn't arguing with you, just agreeing.


  • #4131
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 4,806 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Something Else
    Tristen Hissing Typhoon wrote: »
    How do you know it doesn't exist. Do you think that your better placed to conduct an investigation than Scotland Yard who spend their entire careers investigation circumstances like these?
    What makes you think that your interpretation of an animal barking at a teddy bear is indication of a persons guilt than a team of 30 police investigators?

    Scotland Yard have my full respect. They were asked to investigate an abduction.
    Thats what they spent years doing. They found nothing.

    Had they been allowed to fully investigate, their conclusions would probably be very different.

    Perhaps years from now when the detectives on the case retire, they'll give us their true opinions.


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  • #4132
    v638sg7k1a92bx
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,913 ✭✭✭v638sg7k1a92bx


    cgcsb wrote: »
    Not really. Maddie could have been stripped, weighted down and thrown into the ocean by Gerry McCann that night. Her clothes and teddy need only have been in the car and apartment after the fact. The body storage theory isn't required in this scenario. Agreed they turned that town upside down looking for a child or a body, unlikely that the body could have been stored. There was no sub-aqua search though and the thing about the sea is it gets rid of evidence pretty thoroughly.

    Ok, so now he carried a dead body through the town, took a boat into the sea, dumped a body in the sea, rowed back to shore, carried the child's clothes with him, went back to the dinner table and pretend nothing happened?


  • #4133
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    Deleted User wrote:
    Had they been allowed to fully investigate, their conclusions would probably be very different.


    The reason why Collin Sutton refused to be head of the investigation in 2010.


  • #4134
    cgcsb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,046 ✭✭✭✭cgcsb


    Something Else
    yourdeadwright wrote: »
    What if they bumped her In the bins that where collect at 4 am the night she went missing, Straight to the landfill which was never checked ,

    its so easy and so simply ,

    If they had removed the clothes she wore and at some stage had them in the car they would have been what was smelled by the dog,

    How after millions of pounds spent, 12 years of looing by , FBI, Scotland yard , Million's of photos of trafficked children found in that time, Trawling the dark web, listening in to trafficking gangs, Have they never heard a single thing about Maddy ?

    Surely they would have heard something, The case was so world wide someone in a gang wold have looked for cash to rat someone out, there would have been some kind of chatter about it ,

    I believe they never heard a thing because no one took her, it makes the most sense,

    The major peado ring in the region knew nothing of her, but knew of other children and had images of such. Even if this ring wasn't directly involved in the abduction you can bet that whoever took her would have sold them images. Yet the dark web seems to be void of Maddy images. What's the point in kidnapping the girl and not making any money off it? the only other abductor possibility is a lone wolf who wanted her for personal use. But with such a slick abduction, I don't get how that could happen.


  • #4135
    v638sg7k1a92bx
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,913 ✭✭✭v638sg7k1a92bx


    Plumbthedepths wrote: »
    Collin Sutton the detective asked to head up the investigation on behalf of the Met in 2010 turned down the job after a senior colleague phoned him to tell him his job would be to prove the McCanns innocent and only pursue an investigation into abduction all other avenues were closed. 30 police investigators after years of investigation to-date have found no evidence of abduction, at least Eddie found something .

    Hearsay. Specifically, can you please explain what evidence did he uncovered.


  • #4136
    cgcsb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,046 ✭✭✭✭cgcsb


    Something Else
    Tristen Hissing Typhoon wrote: »
    So you're suggesting that seven different people came up with a story to conceal a murder and that all seven managed to cover this up for the last 12 years while the investigation has been poured over by police in two difference jurisdictions?

    It would be unusual if 7 multiple people all gave the same story. As I've said several times. If we took you and six of your friends on a night out and the next day asked each of you to give an account of what happened, 100% guarantee your stories would not match.

    their story changed and conflicted with each other quite a bit actually. It's possible that they were also medicating their children with the help of Kate McCann and didn't want to loose their careers and reputations either.


  • #4137
    yourdeadwright
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,953 ✭✭✭✭yourdeadwright


    Accident happened, parents hid body
    Tristen Hissing Typhoon wrote: »
    So you're suggesting that cadaver scent leaked into her clothes minutes after she was supposedly killed, and that was carried around on her clothes for weeks afterwards and eventually picked up by a sniffer dog 3 weeks later?

    If any child dies wearing clothes there will be Cadvers on the clothes,

    Why minutes ? she was last seen at 6:30 alarm raised at 10, she could have been bumped into a bin any time between that, As improbably as you think it is still possible,

    So they could have kept the clothes, possibly even washed them to ,

    They quite regularly made trips to the dump in the scenic to dump rubbish and nappies and stuff, so they could have dumped the clothes on one of these trips.,

    All of this is 100% possible ,

    Why would you dismiss something that is very possible,

    As I said yesterday its some accumulator by chance for the dogs to bark at

    The apartment,
    Her bed time toy, in a press,
    Her clothes when laid out,
    Her parents car ,

    Look at the most obvious thing and its usual the answer,

    Nothing at all no lead has ever come from looking at the abduction theory after million's and 12 years and all the experts ,million of photo's found on computers of these rings all over the world, no chatter , no one ratting someone else, no one coming forward NOTHING .

    That tells you all you need to know


  • #4138
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    Tristen Hissing Typhoon wrote:
    Hearsay. Specifically, can you please explain what evidence did he uncovered.


    Hearsay? Colin Sutton made these comments on the Martin Brunt programme on Sky after he refused the position always referenced in the documentary on Netflix. Eddie reacted to a cadaver scent which is his training. What evidence of abduction has Scotland Yard uncovered since they joined the search for Madeline?


  • #4139
    micks_address
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,257 ✭✭✭micks_address


    Plumbthedepths wrote: »
    But the Portuguese Police have been accused by several posters here of incompetence, Scotland Yard like their counterparts have also been unable to find evidence of abduction ( although that is the only line of investigation they were allowed pursue) so now we have two incompetent police forces. Most unfortunate.



    I thought Boom Bap was the Mod here?

    I think its a pretty fair accusation to say only half translating the DNA initial evidence report from the UK and leaking it to the media in Portugal could be classified as being incompetent


  • #4140
    cgcsb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,046 ✭✭✭✭cgcsb


    Something Else
    Tristen Hissing Typhoon wrote: »
    How do you know the cops didn't do that? They were trying to stitch the parents up for the murder and the lead investigator was a formal suspect in another case of a missing child where the police were suspected of interfering with evidence. The same lead investigator also suggested the same theory that the body have been kept in a fridge.

    I don't think the police had the means to go corpse shopping without raising any suspicion. The staff working in mortuaries etc. aren't going to keep quiet for the cops, especially in a case where the sun newspaper would have set them up for life to spill the beans.


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  • #4141
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    micks_address wrote:
    I think its a pretty fair accusation to say only half translating the DNA initial evidence report from the UK and leaking it to the media in Portugal could be classified as being incompetent


    So any thoughts on Scotland Yard not finding evidence of abduction after years of investigation?


This discussion has been closed.
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