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Madeleine McCann

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Comments

  • #3992
    dark crystal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,962 ✭✭✭✭dark crystal


    She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)
    Plumbthedepths wrote: »
    It's a 3 inch gap at best, it's a child you are talking about not a cat.

    My point was in response to another poster saying that Kate lied about looking under the bed as it had a solid base, I posted the image as proof that there was a clear space under the bed. I'm sure she wasn't measuring the gap whilst searching for her child.


  • #3993
    cgcsb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,199 ✭✭✭✭cgcsb


    Something Else
    Steve F wrote: »
    I remember once when my twin daughters were younger my wife and I were out in a shopping centre with them.We didn't have them in the buggy because they were just at the transition stage from buggy to toddler holding hands with Mammy and Daddy or standing close to one of us.
    We were distracted by something for less than 15 seconds and both were gone.
    The frantic panic that consumed us for the 20-30 seconds it took us to find them will haunt me forever and still makes me break out in a cold sweat recalling it.
    We found both of them hiding behind some clothes in a rack,snickering at the joke they had played
    My initial reaction when I realized I couldn't see them were that they were "Gone" "Not there" "Missing"
    Not like Kate "They've taken her/them":confused:

    Agreed. Surely any parent is not going to jump to the most horrifying conclusion imaginable, abduction.

    The more realistic and less worrying scenario that she had wandered off on her own on foot and surely not gotten far.

    She would however assume that she had been taken if she knew the child couldn't have walked away because she was heavily sedated.


  • #3994
    qm1bv4p8i92aoj
    Closed Accounts Posts: 838 ✭✭✭qm1bv4p8i92aoj


    She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)
    Plumbthedepths wrote: »
    They were advised not to by the Police. In my opinion if she were abducted ( which I don't believe) focusing attention on her eye condition made keeping her alive problematic.

    What are you trying to say here?
    Are you trying to say that they released the information about her eye so she would be killed by her abductor?


  • #3995
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    Eileen Zealous Storefront wrote:
    What are you trying to say here? Are you trying to say that they released the information about her eye so she would be killed by her abductor?


    Firstly they were advised not go to the media. That's some jump you made there, so much so I'm not even going to address it.


  • #3996
    gozunda
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,992 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    Something Else
    cgcsb wrote: »
    Agreed. Surely any parent is not going to jump to the most horrifying conclusion imaginable, abduction.

    The more realistic and less worrying scenario that she had wandered off on her own on foot and surely not gotten far.

    She would however assume that she had been taken if she knew the child couldn't have walked away because she was heavily sedated.

    This from the PJ files - Investigative notes
    ...Several times, the McCann couple said that the attention of the police should be maintained focussing on the abduction hypothesis, which, in the couple's opinion, was the only scenario that occurred and that the police should not forget to continue to investigate the suspect Robert Murat.

    I think I would have been more receptive to the case for abduction had the parents not inexplicably pushed this over and beyond all other possible considerations. Even from the first moment where many parents would at least assume the child had gotten out of bed and wandered off - Kate was recorded as shouting "they're taken her".

    I find it odd that the parents were in effect trying to push the police investigation in one direction only. That the police would become suspicious of this is in my opinion not at all inappropriate.


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  • #3997
    cgcsb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,199 ✭✭✭✭cgcsb


    Something Else
    gozunda wrote: »
    This from the PJ files - Investigative notes



    I think I would have been more receptive to the case for abduction had the parents not pushed inexplicably pushed this over and beyond all other possible considerations. Even from the first moment where many parents would at least assume the child had gotten out of bed and wandered off - Kate was recorded as shouting "they're taken her".

    I find it odd that the parents were in effect trying to push the police investigation in one direction only. That the police would become suspicious of this is in my opinion was not at all inappropriate.

    It's possible that Kate knew she hadn't wandered off because she had sedated the child, but the child was also abducted, as a matter of lucky coincidence for the abductor.


  • #3998
    qm1bv4p8i92aoj
    Closed Accounts Posts: 838 ✭✭✭qm1bv4p8i92aoj


    She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)
    shamrock55 wrote: »
    Sorry I strongly disagree, it's like being in a burning building, what's the first thing your gonna do if your house is on fire, are you gonna run out and scream to tell everyone your house is on fire or are you gonna go straight to your kids to get them out and away from danger, different scenarios I know but your instinct to protect your kids from danger is gonna kick in

    Like you said totally different scenarios and in no way comparable. One is an active situation, the fire the other is something that had already happened, the abduction. I'd say she was fairly sure the abductor had been and gone already seeing as she had quickly searched for and could find no sign of her daughter or the abductor when she realised Madeline had been taken.
    I don't think any person would expect an abductor who had already taken one child to come back and take the other two with all the commotion Kate was creating, you know with all the howling and screaming she was making. It would kind go against how well the abductor had gotten away earlier.


  • #3999
    gozunda
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,992 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    Something Else
    Eileen Zealous Storefront wrote: »
    What are you trying to say here?
    Are you trying to say that they released the information about her eye so she would be killed by her abductor?

    Nice twist but this is what was referred to ...
    Carlos Anjos, president of the Association of Criminal Investigation Staff, criticised the McCanns, on 6 November, for creating a "monster of information" that hindered the investigation. He also stated that they should not have publicised the coloboma in her right eye which he claimed put the life of the girl at risk.

     This was echoed by Fernando José Pinto Monteiro, the Attorney General, who said that, if she had been abducted, the worldwide campaign would have turned Madeleine into a liability and that it was likely that her abductor had already killed her.


  • #4000
    qm1bv4p8i92aoj
    Closed Accounts Posts: 838 ✭✭✭qm1bv4p8i92aoj


    She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)
    cgcsb wrote: »
    The case you mention above was a high risk impulsive move by the peado that just happened to work. The perp risked himself being raped by the baseball bat of an angry father. He got lucky. The McCann case, if it was an abduction, was a precision operation. One which the largest peado ring in the region had no information about, even after the fact.

    Why is one just someone who got lucky with his abduction and the other a precision abduction when both so similar? Because it suits the narrative that Kate and Gerry had something to do with Madeline's disappearance.


  • #4001
    weldoninhio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,311 ✭✭✭✭weldoninhio


    Something Else
    gozunda wrote: »
    Nice twist but this is what was referred to ...

    Exactly, if a car thief robs a car and as he is driving around he hears reports about that make, model, reg car on all the radio stations. He's not gonna keep driving it around. He's gonna ditch it and burn it out.


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  • #4002
    v638sg7k1a92bx
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,912 ✭✭✭v638sg7k1a92bx


    gozunda wrote: »

    And yet the parents were not made arguidos until August 2007. And should they have been surprised when they were made suspects ? Btw there was no conclusion by the police that their had been either a murder or abduction.

    So what were they made suspects of, shop lifting?
    gozunda wrote: »
    Did I say that it did lol. Need to keep a hat on the old exaggeration there tbh. But if you lay down with dogs - you're likley to get up with fleas. And if I believed for a moment that any such publicity would endanger a child - Then no - the media would be told to take a hike.

    So how does their interaction with the media implicate them in the disappearance of their child, what exactly is the point?
    gozunda wrote: »
    Read again . It has been detailed that Kate was concerned that someone (possibly) had sedated the twins and according to witness spent the night checking them because they would not wake up ...

    Somebody who once said something is hearsay and irrelevant. Next.
    gozunda wrote: »
    Granted and the follow up of that is veryifying those inconsistencies. That's what an investigation is. Unfortunately that never happened.

    An investigation was conducted by both Portuguese police and Scotland yard who poured over the case files and none of them have even come close to implicating the parents.


  • #4003
    qm1bv4p8i92aoj
    Closed Accounts Posts: 838 ✭✭✭qm1bv4p8i92aoj


    She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)
    gozunda wrote: »
    Nice twist but this is what was referred to ...

    Ok I'll ask again what could the McCann's have been trying to do by releasing the information about the eye other than trying to help people recognise her faster and get her back?

    What are posters on here trying to imply was the ulterior motive for them doing so?


  • #4004
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    Tristen Hissing Typhoon wrote:
    So how does their interaction with the media implicate them in the disappearance of their child, what exactly is the point?


    It doesn't but why go against the advice of the Police whom you supposed to be helping in the recovery of your child?
    The McCanns courted the media from the start, you could even say they appeared to be 'managed' in PR terms.


  • #4005
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    There is no implication at all . It has been pointed out that referring to Madeline's eye anomaly made her instantly recognisable and made the prospect of alleged abductors keeping her alive slimmer. Only you are suggesting an ulterior motive.


  • #4006
    qm1bv4p8i92aoj
    Closed Accounts Posts: 838 ✭✭✭qm1bv4p8i92aoj


    She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)
    Plumbthedepths wrote: »
    There is no implication at all . It has been pointed out that referring to Madeline's eye anomaly made her instantly recognisable and made the prospect of alleged abductors keeping her alive slimmer. Only you are suggesting an ulterior motive.

    Ya right. It is been used as another stick to beat the McCanns with on here. They obviously thought it would get their daughter back quicker can anyone blame them for not taking the advice of the bungling Portuguese police force.


  • #4007
    cgcsb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,199 ✭✭✭✭cgcsb


    Something Else
    Eileen Zealous Storefront wrote: »
    Why is one just someone who got lucky with his abduction and the other a precision abduction when both so similar? Because it suits the narrative that Kate and Gerry had something to do with Madeline's disappearance.

    Abductor in this case, Peter Voisey, was caught, he didn't go far with the child and allowed the body to be recovered, an impulsive attack, non planned. The alleged McCann kidnapper was likely out of Portugal in minutes, not a shred of evidence, if indeed it is an abduction case.


  • #4008
    v638sg7k1a92bx
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,912 ✭✭✭v638sg7k1a92bx


    Plumbthedepths wrote: »
    It doesn't but why go against the advice of the Police whom you supposed to be helping in the recovery of your child?
    The McCanns courted the media from the start, you could even say they appeared to be 'managed' in PR terms.

    Because obviously they believed that it would increase the chances of their daughter being found, why is that so difficult to understand?


  • #4009
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    Eileen Zealous Storefront wrote:
    Ya right. It is been used as another stick to beat the McCanns with on here. They obviously thought it would get their daughter back quicker can anyone blame them for not taking the advice of the bungling Portuguese police force.


    The advice was given to the McCanns in the very early stages of the investigation which they ignored for whatever reason. At that point the British media hadn't started to portray the Portuguese authorities as 'bungling'. Any thoughts on the UK police ? They followed the abduction route and to date have found absolutely NADA, bunglers ?


  • #4010
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    Tristen Hissing Typhoon wrote:
    Because obviously they believed that it would increase the chances of their daughter being found, why is that so difficult to understand?


    So you daughter goes missing in a foreign country, the best thing to do is ignore the advice of the local authorities. I could understand if the McCanns were idiots but they as doctors are highly educated and surely could understand the reasoning behind the police request.


  • #4011
    cgcsb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,199 ✭✭✭✭cgcsb


    Something Else
    Plumbthedepths wrote: »
    So you daughter goes missing in a foreign country, the best thing to do is ignore the advice of the local authorities. I could understand if the McCanns were idiots but they as doctors are highly educated and surely could understand the reasoning behind the police request.

    Some people get a bit arrogant about what they know and about what others don't when they do not to bad for themselves, the Kennedy family being a classic example, the bored young fella riding around Portugal thinking he's Columbo for example.


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  • #4012
    iamwhoiam
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,278 ✭✭✭✭iamwhoiam


    She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)
    Plumbthedepths wrote: »
    So you daughter goes missing in a foreign country, the best thing to do is ignore the advice of the local authorities. I could understand if the McCanns were idiots but they as doctors are highly educated and surely could understand the reasoning behind the police request.


    I think it was a case of them " knowing better " Gerry always seems to me to have a bit of a superior attitude . They didn't trust the PJ and in my opinion were always critical of them


  • #4013
    qm1bv4p8i92aoj
    Closed Accounts Posts: 838 ✭✭✭qm1bv4p8i92aoj


    She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)
    cgcsb wrote: »
    Abductor in this case, Peter Voisey, was caught, he didn't go far with the child and allowed the body to be recovered, an impulsive attack, non planned. The alleged McCann kidnapper was likely out of Portugal in minutes, not a shred of evidence, if indeed it is an abduction case.

    Very little evidence of Voisey in that case either intially. The only thing the police could find of him in the house was a solitary footprint in a bathroom, probably the easiest place to leave a footprint in a house what with water and moisture. No fingerprints, no DNA at the crime scene (until the body was found)just like the McCann abduction. Pretty easy to see even more now Maddie could have been snatched with no evidence. It was only when they rounded up local peados they they were able to build a case on him.

    It's already been stated that the abductor could have quickly driven off and disappeared into the nearby countryside with Madeline. And by the sounds of it with the Belgium peado ring emails and those Dutch guys in town looking for someone to snatch by order she wasn't taken by someone local unlike the Voisey case.


  • #4014
    gozunda
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,992 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    Something Else
    Tristen Hissing Typhoon wrote: »
    So what were they made suspects of, shop lifting? So how does their interaction with the media implicate them in the disappearance of their child, what exactly is the point? Somebody who once said something is hearsay and irrelevant. Next. An investigation was conducted by both Portuguese police and Scotland yard who poured over the case files and none of them have even come close to implicating the parents.

    Not here to split hairs and answer infinitely lol. You are still doing that hilarious exaggeration thing eg 'shoplifing' you keep reverting to btw. ;)

    For best results - I would suggest you Google and take a good read the translated Portuguese police files of the case. And yes the investigation did result in the parents being implicated in the disappearance of their daughter. That's it really...


  • #4015
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    iamwhoiam wrote:
    I think it was a case of them " knowing better " Gerry always seems to me to have a bit of a superior attitude . They didn't trust the PJ and in my opinion were always critical of them

    Gerry by nature of his profession would make him seem to be arrogant, so honestly that would not make me view him in a negative light. His actions however are a different matter. I don't understand their attitude to the Portuguese authorities at the early stages of the investigation at all. They were uncooperative almost antagonistic towards the very people tasked with investigating the disappearance of their child.
    It seems to me if you find yourself in that situation you do everything to help, take what advice they offer as they are the ones trained to respond. The McCanns seemed to deliberately frustrate the police imo.


  • #4016
    cgcsb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,199 ✭✭✭✭cgcsb


    Something Else
    Eileen Zealous Storefront wrote: »
    Very little evidence of Voisey in that case either intially. The only thing the police could find of him in the house was a solitary footprint in a bathroom, probably the easiest place to leave a footprint in a house what with water and moisture. No fingerprints, no DNA at the crime scene (until the body was found)just like the McCann abduction. Pretty easy to see even more now Maddie could have been snatched with no evidence. It was only when they rounded up local peados they they were able to build a case on him.

    It's already been stated that the abductor could have quickly driven off and disappeared into the nearby countryside with Madeline. And by the sounds of it with the Belgium peado ring emails and those Dutch guys in town looking for someone to snatch by order she wasn't taken by someone local unlike the Voisey case.

    I just googled the Voisey case. The girl survived, identified him, his car. His mobile phone fitted the route that the girl had described in the car, she had some of his DNA under her nails, a partial match. The shoe print matched his and he made a dairy entry that day after the fact. That's a mountain more evidence than the McCann case.


  • #4017
    qm1bv4p8i92aoj
    Closed Accounts Posts: 838 ✭✭✭qm1bv4p8i92aoj


    She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)
    cgcsb wrote: »
    I just googled the Voisey case. The girl survived, identified him, his car. His mobile phone fitted the route that the girl had described in the car, she had some of his DNA under her nails, a partial match. The shoe print matched his and he made a dairy entry that day after the fact. That's a mountain more evidence than the McCann case.

    I hadn't realised she survived but nope it's only a mountain more evidence because they caught the guy. There was nothing, zilch bar a solitary footprint if they hadn't rounded up local paedos. Only then were they able to build a case with mobile phone records, DNA under finger nails etc.

    None of the mountain of evidence would have been applicable here if as suggested it was possibly the Dutch guys on an order as they didn't hang around like the Voisey guy.

    This is were the bungling Portuguese police messed up with their practically non existent checkpoints as shown in the doc. They had been and gone long after they had got their shít together.


  • #4018
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    Eileen Zealous Storefront wrote:
    They had been and gone long after they had got their shít together.


    What evidence are you using to claim their was an abductor other than Kate screaming 'they've taken her'


  • #4019
    qm1bv4p8i92aoj
    Closed Accounts Posts: 838 ✭✭✭qm1bv4p8i92aoj


    She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)
    Plumbthedepths wrote: »
    What evidence are you using to claim their was an abductor other than Kate screaming 'they've taken her'

    Are you taking the píss or bring wilfully dense? I have already described why I think there was an abductor in my very first post on this thread only 5 pages back.

    Because of the man seen carrying a child matching Madeleine's description walking towards the beach that has never come forward.

    Because the timelines don't add up to Gerry or Kate being able to dispose of the body no matter how much posters try and make them to. And no they wouldn't have been able to dispose of the body later after the police and media had descended on the area.

    Because of the Belgium peado ring emails that were intercepted looking for a child in the Algarve area that matched Madeline's description.

    Because of the dodgy Dutch guys, because of the imaginary orphanage charity, because of the previous numerous sexual assaults on young children in the area etc etc etc.

    Now have you any evidence there wasn't an abductor?


  • #4020
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    Eileen Zealous Storefront wrote:
    Now have you any evidence there wasn't an abductor?


    Same as Scotland Yard, after almost 11years they have no evidence either.


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  • #4021
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    Eileen Zealous Storefront wrote:
    Because of the man seen carrying a child matching Madeleine's description walking towards the beach that has never come forward.


    The man walking towards the beach was seen by Martin Smith and he was 60/80 per cent positive it was Gerry McCann.


This discussion has been closed.
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