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Madeleine McCann

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Comments

  • #3512
    limnam
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,345 ✭✭✭limnam


    Phoebas wrote: »
    I get that many people are highly critical of the McCann's leaving the children unattended, but that doesn't make them in any way responsible for the abduction. .


    So if we forget they left their 3 kids under 4 alone while out eating and drinking.


    Why does seem happy the dogs wouldn't be allowed to be used in a court while drinking brandy with a known pedophile.


    Why would you as a mother of a missing child try to discredit the very people who are trying to help you?


    Why would you refuse to answer police questions that may lead or assist in them finding your child?


    Why would you not take part in a re-construction?


    Why would you claim the curtains were blowing when they were clearly pinned behind the bed in police pictures?



    Why would you say "they've taken her" after finding an empty bed.


    Why would you hire companies that have no record in finding kids costing hundreds of thousands of euro?


    Why would you hire con men who have since been prison to help find your child?


    Again there's loads of things we can pass off, including them leaving their kids alone. But it the questions never end. Since they arrived in Portugal they did _nothing_ right. Not 1 bloody thing.


    None of them makes them guilty, but how people can be so set on their innocence amazes me.


    I've no idea what bloody happened it's an absolute mess how anyone can be so sure of anything in it is beyond me


  • #3513
    SusieBlue
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,029 ✭✭✭SusieBlue


    She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)
    tretorn wrote: »
    At least they get to live their lives while their little girl may have endured a worse fate than death, and all because they choose their friends company over that of their duty to their tiny children.

    I completely agree. This is something they will have to live with on their conscience for the rest of their lives.
    I couldn’t imagine living with the guilt of knowing I left my child in a position so vulnerable, something that awful could happen to her.


  • #3514
    Spanish Eyes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,129 ✭✭✭✭Spanish Eyes


    SusieBlue wrote: »
    You aren’t a moderator, you are in no position to be telling me to read and move on.

    No need to be so defensive. We all take lots of comments here on the chin that we may not agree with. That is what discussion fora are all about.

    Toughen up a bit. It can be hard out there on occasion!


  • #3515
    Ultimate Seduction
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,464 ✭✭✭Ultimate Seduction


    Something Else
    SusieBlue wrote: »
    You aren’t a moderator, you are in no position to be telling me to read and move on.

    And your in no position to tell people stop saying things or stop repeating things. Your the one who keeps bringing it up over and over!


  • #3516
    Sunflower 27
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,955 ✭✭✭Sunflower 27


    Something Else
    SusieBlue wrote: »
    That’s extremely unfair and disengeneous, not once have I minimized or downplayed what they have done.

    I have said repeatedly, ad nauseum throughout the thread that they made a terrible, bad, awful decision in leaving those kids alone.
    I haven’t defended that choice once.

    So no, I don’t expect to be pulled up on it. Not least of all by someone who isn’t a mod.

    Every time I make a point someone brings up the fact that they left the kids alone as some sort of trump card as proof of their guilt.

    We can all agree that they should never have left those kids, I’m not disputing it and neither is anyone else.
    It was a stupid thing to do.
    I don’t see what repeating that fact every 10 posts does except derail the thread.


    Different people are mentioning it all the time because it is key to what happened to Madeleine. People aren't reading the entire thread to know what has and hasn't been posted and discussed They are popping in and saying how they feel.

    The neglect of the children is what infuriates people, it's not going to stop. People have been saying the same thing for years.

    Oh, and I'm telling you to read and move on because you are clearly getting upset or bothered. It was merely a suggestion, you don't have to heed it


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  • #3517
    iamwhoiam
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,249 ✭✭✭✭iamwhoiam


    She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)
    For those asking why target 5a and not other apartments . 5A was more vulnerable , the end of the terrace , steps leading to veranda doors from a public road , easier access for a quick in and out . A car could be parked in the area outside the front door , shaded by trees and not easily seen then out of car park turn left and quickly right and into rural country and mountains not far away

    The three children were left in one of the most vulnerable apartments in that block


  • #3518
    dark crystal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,962 ✭✭✭✭dark crystal


    She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)
    SusieBlue wrote: »
    That’s extremely unfair and disengeneous, not once have I minimized or downplayed what they have done.

    I have said repeatedly, ad nauseum throughout the thread that they made a terrible, bad, awful decision in leaving those kids alone.
    I haven’t defended that choice once.

    So no, I don’t expect to be pulled up on it. Not least of all by someone who isn’t a mod.

    Every time I make a point someone brings up the fact that they left the kids alone as some sort of trump card as proof of their guilt.

    We can all agree that they should never have left those kids, I’m not disputing it and neither is anyone else.
    It was a stupid thing to do.
    I don’t see what repeating that fact every 10 posts does except derail the thread.


    There was already a warning about the neglect angle being brought up again and again....I'd stay out of it if I was you and leave the usual suspects to keep parroting the same thing over and over again. It's not worth responding to and getting a warning over.



    Still no viable theory as to how the parents found Madeleine dead, cleaned the apartment, concocted a kidnap plot, hid her body somewhere, went to dinner as usual and got away with the perfect crime? Why they did it, how they did it, where and when they did it.


    Not one viable theory.


  • #3519
    SusieBlue
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,029 ✭✭✭SusieBlue


    She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)
    Ultimate Seduction wrote: »
    And your in no position to tell people stop saying things or stop repeating things. Your the one who keeps bringing it up over and over!

    If people want to repeat it over and over, that’s their prerogative.
    People keep saying it in reply to my posts as if I’m disputing the fact.
    I’m not, its not my position.
    I’m sick of defending a point I’m not even making.

    And for what it’s worth, a Mod has already said to knock off commenting on them leaving the kids alone.


  • #3520
    limnam
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,345 ✭✭✭limnam


    SusieBlue wrote: »
    If people want to repeat it over and over, that’s their prerogative.
    People keep saying it in reply to my posts as if I’m disputing the fact.
    I’m not, its not my position.
    I’m sick of defending a point I’m not even making.

    And for what it’s worth, a Mod has already said to knock off commenting on them leaving the kids alone.




    I've posed a number of questions above if you want to try answer them for a change of pace.


  • #3521
    Spanish Eyes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,129 ✭✭✭✭Spanish Eyes


    iamwhoiam wrote: »
    For those asking why target 5a and not other apartments . 5A was more vulnerable , the end of the terrace , steps leading to veranda doors from a public road , easier access for a quick in and out . A car could be parked in the area outside the front door , shaded by trees and not easily seen then out of car park turn left and quickly right and into rural country and mountains not far away

    The three children were left in one of the most vulnerable apartments in that block

    There is no evidence, and never will be of an abduction. IMV of course.


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  • #3522
    iamwhoiam
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,249 ✭✭✭✭iamwhoiam


    She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)
    Spanish Eyes wrote: »
    There is no evidence, and never will be of an abduction. IMV of course.

    I know that . There is no evidence of anything at all except that Madeleine is gone . I am only answering a question asked . We all are only surmising


  • #3523
    dark crystal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,962 ✭✭✭✭dark crystal


    She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)
    Spanish Eyes wrote: »
    There is no evidence, and never will be of an abduction. IMV of course.


    What evidence is there of abduction in the JoJo Dollard case? Or Deirdre Jacob? They just vanished too.


  • #3524
    Spanish Eyes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,129 ✭✭✭✭Spanish Eyes


    SusieBlue wrote: »
    If people want to repeat it over and over, that’s their prerogative.
    People keep saying it in reply to my posts as if I’m disputing the fact.
    I’m not, its not my position.
    I’m sick of defending a point I’m not even making.

    And for what it’s worth, a Mod has already said to knock off commenting on them leaving the kids alone.

    OK Susie,

    Sorry that you feel hard done by. But nothing you have posted for me anyway washes well. I am entitled to refute your arguments, just the same as you can vice versa.

    At the end of the day, within a week or so this discussion will die down and on we go back to real life again.

    Anyway something about all this smells to me. Whether it is the support of the Establishment, politicos, UK police (millions spent searching etc.) or whatever. It just seems particular to the missing McCann child for some reason. I have often wondered about that.


  • #3525
    Spanish Eyes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,129 ✭✭✭✭Spanish Eyes


    dark crystal wrote: »
    What evidence is there of abduction in the JoJo Dollard case? Or Deirdre Jacob? They just vanished too.

    I don't think the thread is about them. But anyway where did I say there was evidence of abduction in those cases anyway.

    Both those people were adults, big difference between them and a sub four year old child who was the responsibility of her parents I think.


  • #3526
    weldoninhio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,311 ✭✭✭✭weldoninhio


    Something Else
    dark crystal wrote: »
    There was already a warning about the neglect angle being brought up again and again....I'd stay out of it if I was you and leave the usual suspects to keep parroting the same thing over and over again. It's not worth responding to and getting a warning over.



    Still no viable theory as to how the parents found Madeleine dead, cleaned the apartment, concocted a kidnap plot, hid her body somewhere, went to dinner as usual and got away with the perfect crime? Why they did it, how they did it, where and when they did it.


    Not one viable theory.

    Why would they have to clean the apartment?? Do you think a frenzied knife attack or some other messy type of murder is the only possible thing that could happen?

    It’s certainly possible that they doped her earlier, she fell and hit her head and died. Call an ambulance and you’ve a dead sedated child. The body could have been hidden before they even went to the restaurant.

    No one has ever been asked to rack their brain to see if they had noticed anyone BEFORE 10pm. They managed that timeline precisely.


  • #3527
    SusieBlue
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,029 ✭✭✭SusieBlue


    She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)
    Spanish Eyes wrote: »
    OK Susie,

    Sorry that you feel hard done by. But nothing you have posted for me anyway washes well. I am entitled to refute your arguments, just the same as you can vice versa.

    At the end of the day, within a week or so this discussion will die down and on we go back to real life again.

    Anyway something about all this smells to me. Whether it is the support of the Establishment, politicos, UK police (millions spent searching etc.) or whatever. It just seems particular to the missing McCann child for some reason. I have often wondered about that.

    They won’t wash well with you, because you don’t believe that theres evidence of an abduction, and that’s ok.
    Because I don’t believe theres any evidence that the parents were involved.
    And that’s ok too.

    It’s the constant nitpicking about the kids being left alone is the problem.
    There is nothing to refute there because it seems we are all in agreement that it was wrong, bad, wreckless and every other negative adjective you can think of thing to do.


  • #3528
    BloodBath
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,299 ✭✭✭✭BloodBath


    Something Else
    God ye are still arguing over whether or not it's ok to leave your kids unattended like this when it's obvious the McCanns are guilty of far more than simply neglect.

    Anyone that thinks the McCanns are innocent are terrible judges of character. Their behaviour is bizarre to say the least and the forensic evidence points at them as well. It's an open and shut case.

    They used 1 of the best sniffer dog units in the world with the highest success rate. These dogs found cadaver odour in the apartment and the boot of their rental car.

    The parents didn't assist in the search for their child and actually went jogging the day after she went missing not to mention their non co-operation with police and their bizarre behaviour in interviews as well as their changing and conflicting story of events.

    If you think these people are innocent you are naive to say the least.


  • #3529
    Spanish Eyes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,129 ✭✭✭✭Spanish Eyes


    iamwhoiam wrote: »
    I know that . There is no evidence of anything at all except that Madeleine is gone . I am only answering a question asked . We all are only surmising

    Indeed we are surmising. There is no other way now since there is no evidence of any murder or abduction.


  • #3530
    Phoebas
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,371 ✭✭✭Phoebas


    She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)
    tretorn wrote: »
    At least they get to live their lives while their little girl may have endured a worse fate than death, and all because they choose their friends company over that of their duty to their tiny children.
    All because of that?

    You're choosing to completely let whoever took Madeline off the hook.


  • #3531
    SusieBlue
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,029 ✭✭✭SusieBlue


    She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)
    BloodBath wrote: »
    God ye are still arguing over whether or not it's ok to leave your kids unattended like this when it's obvious the McCanns are guilty of far more than simply neglect.

    Anyone that thinks the McCanns are innocent are terrible judges of character. Their behaviour is bizarre to say the least and the forensic evidence points at them as well. It's an open and shut case.

    They used 1 of the best sniffer dog units in the world with the highest success rate. These dogs found cadaver odour in the apartment and the boot of their rental car.

    The parents didn't assist in the search for their child and actually went jogging the day after she went missing not to mention their non co-operation with police and their bizarre behaviour in interviews as well as their changing and conflicting story of events.

    If you think these people are innocent you are naive to say the least.

    How did they manage to dupe two of the best police forces in the world into believing their cover story?


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  • #3532
    limnam
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,345 ✭✭✭limnam


    SusieBlue wrote: »
    How did they manage to dupe two of the best police forces in the world into believing their cover story?




    Why were scotland yard ensuring only a line of enquiry of abduction should be followed?


    Doesn't sound like they were duped at all.


    Consider the lead investigator thinks they're guilty


    he wasn't duped at all.


  • #3533
    Spanish Eyes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,129 ✭✭✭✭Spanish Eyes


    BloodBath wrote: »
    God ye are still arguing over whether or not it's ok to leave your kids unattended like this when it's obvious the McCanns are guilty of far more than simply neglect.

    Anyone that thinks the McCanns are innocent are terrible judges of character. Their behaviour is bizarre to say the least and the forensic evidence points at them as well. It's an open and shut case.

    They used 1 of the best sniffer dog units in the world with the highest success rate. These dogs found cadaver odour in the apartment and the boot of their rental car.

    The parents didn't assist in the search for their child and actually went jogging the day after she went missing not to mention their non co-operation with police and their bizarre behaviour in interviews as well as their changing and conflicting story of events.

    If you think these people are innocent you are naive to say the least.

    Not allowed to say any of that out loud. Fair play to you for putting your head above the parapet.


  • #3534
    Spanish Eyes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,129 ✭✭✭✭Spanish Eyes


    Phoebas wrote: »
    All because of that?

    You're choosing to completely let whoever took Madeline off the hook.

    No one took her. Did they?


  • #3535
    BloodBath
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,299 ✭✭✭✭BloodBath


    Something Else
    SusieBlue wrote: »
    How did they manage to dupe two of the best police forces in the world into believing their cover story?

    Who would they be?

    They certainly didn't dupe the Portuguese police who did a fine job despite the attack from the British media and are convinced the McCann's were involved.


  • #3536
    Spanish Eyes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,129 ✭✭✭✭Spanish Eyes


    limnam wrote: »
    Why were scotland yard ensuring only a line of enquiry of abduction should be followed?


    Doesn't sound like they were duped at all.


    Consider the lead investigator thinks they're guilty


    he wasn't duped at all.

    This is why I believe or think a D notice is in place. Just my own view of course.


  • #3537
    Phoebas
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,371 ✭✭✭Phoebas


    She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)
    Spanish Eyes wrote: »
    No one took her. Did they?

    She's not still there!
    So she was either removed by someone else or she decided to head off on her own.

    I know we don't have the full facts, but that doesn't mean that we should completely adandon common sense.


  • #3538
    Spanish Eyes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,129 ✭✭✭✭Spanish Eyes


    Phoebas wrote: »
    She's not still there!
    So she was either removed by someone else or she decided to head off on her own.

    I know we don't have the full facts, but that doesn't mean that we should completely adandon common sense.

    To be fair now, you were the one who mentioned her being taken away and that is paraphrasing.

    There is no proof of anything apart from neglect by the parents, and total support from the UK Establishment who pushed the narrative of abduction all the way. And of course the media supported them to the hilt, and they got millions in the Fund too.

    Media also portrayed the Portuguese Police as inept and useless. That was very nice. No wonder such people want Brexit. They might show up Scotland Yard, the Leicester Police, and the UK Forensic Labs. Everyone thinks they are the best in the biz. But think about motivations in their decisions.....

    I don't believe an abduction theory for a second TBH.


  • #3539
    micks_address
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,234 ✭✭✭micks_address


    BloodBath wrote: »
    Who would they be?

    They certainly didn't dupe the Portuguese police who did a fine job despite the attack from the British media and are convinced the McCann's were involved.

    I think the Portuguese no longer believe that.. the original guy in charge amaral believed that and still.does.. there's a second case mentioned in the documentary if a child missing and it alleged that the same inspector amaral coereched cofessions out of the mother and uncle.. one reporter commented that when he heard about the McCann's case how long it would be before attention turned to the parents


  • #3540
    Phoebas
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,371 ✭✭✭Phoebas


    She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)
    Of course you don't believe an abduction theory - you're far too invested in conspiracy theories.


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  • #3541
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    BloodBath wrote: »
    God ye are still arguing over whether or not it's ok to leave your kids unattended like this when it's obvious the McCanns are guilty of far more than simply neglect.

    Anyone that thinks the McCanns are innocent are terrible judges of character. Their behaviour is bizarre to say the least and the forensic evidence points at them as well. It's an open and shut case.

    They used 1 of the best sniffer dog units in the world with the highest success rate. These dogs found cadaver odour in the apartment and the boot of their rental car.

    The parents didn't assist in the search for their child and actually went jogging the day after she went missing not to mention their non co-operation with police and their bizarre behaviour in interviews as well as their changing and conflicting story of events.

    If you think these people are innocent you are naive to say the least.

    If you are think these people stored their daughters body somewhere, and then buried it so well it's still unfound, you are naive to say the least.


This discussion has been closed.
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