Madeleine McCann

Phoebas · 19-03-2019 08:10PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

It's not and you know it. A fair comparison would be the parent of a child allowing their child to wander into traffic and blame the car driver for failing to stop.

There's a real and foreseeable risk of a child wandering in traffic being knocked down. And it doesn't require any culpability by anyone else.

It's deeply odd that you attach the same level of blame to a car driver failing to stop hitting a child wandering in the traffic to whoever has taken Madeline McCann.

Sunflower 27 · 19-03-2019 08:11PM

Something Else

SusieBlue wrote: »

One was in Figeuira, just 7 miles from where Madeleine was taken.

If this is the case I'm thinking of, it was almost three years earlier than Madeleine's disappearance and the little girl was eight years old at the time. Family members were convicted in this case if I recall.

Spanish Eyes · 19-03-2019 08:12PM

SusieBlue wrote: »

One was in Figeuira, just 7 miles from where Madeleine was taken.

Again, where is the evidence of Madeleine being abducted please? You seem to be so sure about this, so just wondered how you can be so sure.

Plumbthedepths · 19-03-2019 08:13PM

Phoebas wrote:

It's deeply odd that you attach the same level of blame to a car driver failing to stop hitting a child wandering in the traffic to whoever has taken Madeline McCann.

No you missed my point , I would attach some of the blame for what happened to a child wandering in traffic to it's parent, I would also apportion blame to the driver. As for Madeline they is no proof whatsoever that there was an abductor.

brookers · 19-03-2019 08:13PM

SusieBlue wrote: »

I’m going to ignore the OT utter drivel about abortion, but the correct terminology is child with Down’s syndrome, not ‘downs children’.

The majority of British children are not routinely shipped off to boarding school and they haven’t been left outside in their prams for air all day since the 1950’s.
Those are the points I was addressing and they were both completly inaccurate.

Your anecdote about the nanny could have just as easily happened here, in fact similar working conditions were revealed when the au pair scandal came out a few years ago.
British and Irish modern parenting is very similar.

The Irish just bring them to the pub and drink all around them, or leave them in the car, even middle class parents have no problem getting absolutely hammered in front of their children, falling over the place, then they start to f this and f that and totally let themselves down in front of children. I wont even go over for a simple thing like a bbq with my kids to some friends house as I dont want my kids subjected to the absolutely terrible addiction and affliction this country has with alcohol. The women just go mad with white wine, start crying and having melt downs, the fathers just fall over. Dont tell me this is isolated stuff. It is happening all around us.

yaboya1 · 19-03-2019 08:15PM

I have no idea what happened.
Somebody said whoever checked on the kids before Kate didn't get a visual on them. So he didn't check on them. What was the point of his journey? Sounds like their checks weren't too thorough.

SusieBlue · 19-03-2019 08:16PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Again, where is the evidence of Madeleine being abducted please? You seem to be so sure about this, so just wondered how you can be so sure.

You are being pedantic for the sake of it now, I’ve alteady explained why I think she was taken and you already agreed that there is no evidence either way to disprove it.

iamwhoiam · 19-03-2019 08:18PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

brookers wrote: »

The Irish just bring them to the pub and drink all around them, or leave them in the car, even middle class parents have no problem getting absolutely hammered in front of their children, falling over the place, then they start to f this and f that and totally let themselves down in front of children. I wont even go over for a simple thing like a bbq with my kids to some friends house as I dont want my kids subjected to the absolutely terrible addiction and affliction this country has with alcohol. The women just go mad with white wine, start crying and having melt downs, the fathers just fall over. Dont tell me this is isolated stuff. It is happening all around us.

Not in my life or anyone I know . Thankfully .

SusieBlue · 19-03-2019 08:19PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Sunflower 27 wrote: »

If this is the case I'm thinking of, it was almost three years earlier than Madeleine's disappearance and the little girl was eight years old at the time. Family members were convicted in this case if I recall.

3 years in a region that small isn’t a long time for a very similar case.
The Moors murders in the UK happened over the course of a couple of years and also involved children of varying ages.
There’s a lot of research available online that suggests family members weren’t responsible and that the PJ coerced confessions in order to close the case.
The family were poor and uneducated and were the type that could easily be taken advantage of.

Plumbthedepths · 19-03-2019 08:21PM

brookers wrote:

The Irish just bring them to the pub and drink all around them, or leave them in the car, even middle class parents have no problem getting absolutely hammered in front of their children, falling over the place, then they start to f this and f that and totally let themselves down in front of children. I wont even go over for a simple thing like a bbq with my kids to some friends house as I dont want my kids subjected to the absolutely terrible addiction and affliction this country has with alcohol. The women just go mad with white wine, start crying and having melt downs, the fathers just fall over. Dont tell me this is isolated stuff. It is happening all around us.

Worked in the hospitality trade in Ireland for several years never saw any of what you described.

SusieBlue · 19-03-2019 08:22PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

brookers wrote: »

The Irish just bring them to the pub and drink all around them, or leave them in the car, even middle class parents have no problem getting absolutely hammered in front of their children, falling over the place, then they start to f this and f that and totally let themselves down in front of children. I wont even go over for a simple thing like a bbq with my kids to some friends house as I dont want my kids subjected to the absolutely terrible addiction and affliction this country has with alcohol. The women just go mad with white wine, start crying and having melt downs, the fathers just fall over. Dont tell me this is isolated stuff. It is happening all around us.

Yeah the point I was replying to (for the third time now) was a blanket statement that ALL modern British parents are cold hearted disciplinarian authoritarians who ship their kids off to boarding school and leave newborns out in the road in their prams all day.
I said that this was completely baseless and inaccurate and not reflective of modern parenting.

I have no interest in turninh this thread into one about Irish attitudes to drinking. That’s for another thread.
There is much to discuss without indulging in off topic arguments that are irrelevant.

You are basically refuting a point that no one (least of all me) made.

Spanish Eyes · 19-03-2019 08:23PM

SusieBlue wrote: »

You are being pedantic for the sake of it now, I’ve alteady explained why I think she was taken and you already agreed that there is no evidence either way to disprove it.

Exactly. No way to prove anything IMO. But there we are. All theorising now as we can do thankfully with or without your permission.

Sunflower 27 · 19-03-2019 08:23PM

Something Else

SusieBlue wrote: »

3 years in a region that small isn’t a long time for a very similar case.
The Moors murders in the UK happened over the course of a couple of years and also involved children of varying ages.
There’s a lot of research available online that suggests family members weren’t responsible and that the PJ coerced confessions in order to close the case.
The family were poor and uneducated and were the type that could easily be taken advantage of.

Three years is three years. It's not much of a link at at all is it? I mean, if we are talking about a serial child abductor. Or abduction ring.

SusieBlue · 19-03-2019 08:25PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Exactly. No way to prove anything IMO. But there we are. All theorising now as we can do thankfully with or without your permission.

There is absolutely no need for passive aggressiveness or the back seat modding you are attempting to do, as if you have some authority to pull me up on my posts.

Pity you weren’t around this morning when the hired hitman was being discussed.

Spanish Eyes · 19-03-2019 08:25PM

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Worked in the hospitality trade in Ireland for several years never saw any of what you described.

Kids not allowed in pubs/restaurants here beyond ten pm I think. Correct me if wrong.

But in places like Spain, Italy and Portugal kids are revered, and can go anywhere with parents if that is what they want, until the early hours. No worries at all. Different culture I suppose.

Plumbthedepths · 19-03-2019 08:25PM

Spanish Eyes wrote:

Kids not allowed in pubs/restaurants here beyond ten pm I think. Correct me if wrong.

9.

Lavinia · 19-03-2019 08:26PM

Parents killed her and covered it up
End of story.

SusieBlue · 19-03-2019 08:27PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Sunflower 27 wrote: »

Three years is three years. It's not much of a link at at all is it? I mean, if we are talking about a serial child abductor. Or abduction ring.

It’s a matter of opinion, I suppose.
There was more than 3 years between some of the Moors murderers.
There was more than 3 years between the disappearances of all those women who are still missing from the midlands, and they were all of various different ages too.
It’s not uncommon or unheard of.

Plumbthedepths · 19-03-2019 08:28PM

Spanish Eyes wrote:

But in places like Spain, Italy and Portugal kids are revered, and can go anywhere with parents if that is what they want, until the early hours. No worries at all. Different culture I suppose.

My wife and I spend a lot of time in Italy, children are as you say are revered. It is not unusual to go for a meal at 9/10 in the evening to the local piazza and hear the laughter/chatter of children as their parents wine/dine. I think it's incredible it brings families closer and we always brought our boys with us when they were younger.

Spanish Eyes · 19-03-2019 08:29PM

SusieBlue wrote: »

There is absolutely no need for passive aggressiveness or the back seat modding you are attempting to do, as if you have some authority to pull me up on my posts.

Pity you weren’t around this morning when the hired hitman was being discussed.

Look if you think I am targeting you, well report my posts and then I will be banned or infracted if the mods agree.

Get angry with the Portuguese Police, or whatever, there is no need to be angry with me really.

brookers · 19-03-2019 08:30PM

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Kids not allowed in pubs/restaurants here beyond ten pm I think. Correct me if wrong.

But in places like Spain, Italy and Portugal kids are revered, and can go anywhere with parents if that is what they want, until the early hours. No worries at all. Different culture I suppose.

Yes couldnt understand that they didnt bring the children with them as countries like above and Greece also are very much into their children, love eating with them and enjoying themselves and of course dont go mad with the drink, know how to be responsible.....not unusual to out late in these circumstances.......

Plumbthedepths · 19-03-2019 08:31PM

Spanish Eyes wrote:

Get angry with the Portuguese Police, or whatever, there is no need to be angry with me really.

I think the Portuguese police got a very raw deal and politics reared its interfering head very soon after the disappearance.

Sunflower 27 · 19-03-2019 08:32PM

Something Else

SusieBlue wrote: »

There is absolutely no need for passive aggressiveness or the back seat modding you are attempting to do, as if you have some authority to pull me up on my posts.

Pity you weren’t around this morning when the hired hitman was being discussed.

It's a forum. You are going to get all-sorts posting. I think you will find though that parents killed her on purpose or hired a hitman are rare and quite obscure. These posts shouldn't be used as the yardstick to judge any theory other than abduction.

I still maintain someone watching the family and taking Madeleine to be far less likely than an accidental death when children are left unsupervised. Either could have happened but I've always leaned far more towards the latter.

I'm also not sure if the apartment door was really left unlocked. I just can't fathom doing that not just because the children were there, but passports, valuables. Who does that?

Did the McCanns and friends say it was unlocked to substantiate an abductor theory?

Spanish Eyes · 19-03-2019 08:34PM

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

My wife and I spend a lot of time in Italy, children are as you say are revered. It is not unusual to go for a meal at 9/10 in the evening to the local piazza and hear the laughter/chatter of children as their parents wine/dine. I think it's incredible it brings families closer and we always brought our boys with us when they were younger.

Yes it is great really. I forgot to mention Italy and Greece and other places too where little kids are doted upon there no matter what time of night it is.

I find it very charming really.

Sunflower 27 · 19-03-2019 08:36PM

Something Else

SusieBlue wrote: »

It’s a matter of opinion, I suppose.
There was more than 3 years between some of the Moors murderers.
There was more than 3 years between the disappearances of all those women who are still missing from the midlands, and they were all of various different ages too.
It’s not uncommon or unheard of.

I think it would be unusual for a paedophile ring. And to target a foreign child? Madness.

SusieBlue · 19-03-2019 08:37PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Sunflower 27 wrote: »

It's a forum. You are going to get all-sorts posting. I think you will find though that parents killed her on purpose or hired a hitman are rare and quite obscure. These posts shouldn't be used as the yardstick to judge any theory other than abduction.

I still maintain someone watching the family and taking Madeleine to be far less likely than an accidental death when children are left unsupervised. Either could have happened but I've always leaned far more towards the latter.

I'm also not sure if the apartment door was really left unlocked. I just can't fathom doing that not just because the children were there, but passports, valuables. Who does that?

Did the McCanns and friends say it was unlocked to substantiate an abductor theory?

Why are you asking me did the McCanns say their door was unlocked? I have never ever commented on the door.
Your reply has nothing to do with my post to @SpanishEyes.
I’m not here to be quizzed.
I’d understand if I had mentioned anything about the door in my reply, or indeed any post at all, but I haven’t?
I suggest you do your own research, I’m not here to justify myself, be patronised, or to do a google search for you.

Sunflower 27 · 19-03-2019 08:38PM

Something Else

SusieBlue wrote: »

Why are you asking me did the McCanns say their door was unlocked? I have never ever commented on the door.
Your reply has nothing to do with my post to @SpanishEyes.
I’m not here to be quizzed.
I’d understand if I had mentioned anything about the door in my reply, or indeed any post at all, but I haven’t?
I suggest you do your own research, I’m not here to justify myself, be patronised, or to do a google search for you.

I'm musing generally. I don't expect you to answer or know. Relax.

Plumbthedepths · 19-03-2019 08:38PM

Spanish Eyes wrote:

Yes it is great really. I forgot to mention Italy and Greece and other places too where little kids are doted upon there no matter what time of night it is.

I find it incredible that people will take their children on holiday but then choose to be away from them, doesn't make sense. To be honest nothing of what went on in 2007 and the adults behaviour/stories makes sense.

micks_address · 19-03-2019 08:38PM

cnocbui wrote: »

Whoops! - my bad.

Yeah i find it pretty unbelievable that they left the sliding door unlocked..

SusieBlue · 19-03-2019 08:38PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Sunflower 27 wrote: »

I think it would be unusual for a paedophile ring. And to target a foreign child? Madness.

Perhaps, but not impossible. Not something that should be ruled out.
It pains me to even type this, but white, blond haired children are of high value in those circles.

Madeleine McCann

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