Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Madeleine McCann

1…107108110112113…264

Comments

  • #3272
    SusieBlue
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,029 ✭✭✭SusieBlue


    She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)
    cgcsb wrote: »
    Is it the 'acting normally' bit that you find hard to deal with? like most people wouldn't act normally, Jeffry Dhamer and Ted Bundy acted not only normally, but were quite charming moments before/after extreme acts of brutality. There are people in this world who are capable of such things. Just look at the West case in the UK. You are assuming that they would act like you would act, this isn't always the case, a small number of people in the world are capable of seriously nasty stuff.

    Jeffrey Dhamer and Ted Bundy were serial killers.
    Unless you are suggesting that Madeleine wasn't the first toddler Kate & Gerry killed it has no relevance.

    Its unrealistic to suggest two normal people with no prior violent history murdered their child and went off to dinner half an hour later as if nothing had happened.


  • #3273
    cgcsb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,032 ✭✭✭✭cgcsb


    Something Else
    Guy:Incognito wrote: »
    Theres also no evidence to implicate anyone else is any of it yet some people are convinced that it was a stranger.

    Despite the blind being opened from the inside and the window being opened by Kate McCann's palm (careful not to touch the handle) in an apartment where any stalker worth his salt would have observed an unlocked patio door.


  • #3274
    SusieBlue
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,029 ✭✭✭SusieBlue


    She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)
    cgcsb wrote: »
    Nope, never said that.

    Here you go:

    cgcsb wrote: »
    Easy, he moved her sometime during dinner to a hiding place near by on one of his trips, then they later took her in the rental car and disposed of it.


  • #3275
    Theboinkmaster
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,060 ✭✭✭Theboinkmaster


    SusieBlue wrote: »
    My theory is that they were being watched.
    It was written in the restaurant reservations book that the Tapas group had a specific table block booked at a specific table for the whole week.

    It was noted in the book that the specific table was needed because the parents were going to be dining while their kids were in bed in the apartments.
    This book was accessible by the waiters, bartenders, cleaners and not hidden from the general public.
    Anyone could have seen this note.

    All it would have taken would have been a day or two of observation to establish the routine.
    Its widely accepted that the McCann apartment was the most vulnerable as it had street access.
    I think someone sinister learned that they were leaving their children alone, watched, and took their opportunity.

    I believe she was taken out of PdeL almost immediately.
    Where to, I don't know. But I don't believe she was there for long after she was taken.

    I find this scenario far more believable and reasonable than Kate and/or Gerry murdering their child, getting the other partner on board with it, dumping a body in an unfamiliar location and then carrying about their business as usual until they feigned the "abduction".
    It becomes even less believable when you consider that some think the Tapas group were also involved in the cover up, would you lie for your friend if they murdered their own kid?

    And lastly, they persist on bringing media attention to it over a decade later. Everyone would have long forgotten about Madeleine if her parents hadn't persisted in keeping her name in the public domain over the last few years.
    Why would they keep attracting attention to themselves if they were in any way responsible?

    The worst things in the world have been said about them, and some of it deservedly so, because they were STUPID to leave the kids alone.

    But why would they keep dragging this negative attention, this media intrusion, this judgment from the court of public opinion on themselves & their twins unless they knew someone else was responsible for their child going missing?

    Because they know they aren't responsible & they feel a massive burden of guilt for leaving Madeleine in a position where she could be taken from them.

    I absolutely agree this could have happened - a lot more than the mccanns killing their own child.

    Either that or she woke up, wandered onto the street and was struck by a car. The driver panicked and took and her and dumped body very far away.

    The problem is there isn't any evidence to suggest what actually happened and I don't think anybody will ever know for certain.

    What we do know (and hope) is this is a lesson to all parents to never leave their children unaccompanied.


  • #3276
    Theboinkmaster
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,060 ✭✭✭Theboinkmaster


    At a guess (could be wrong) but is it fair to suggest that most people accusing the mccanns of killing her are not parents themselves?


  • Advertisement
  • #3277
    cgcsb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,032 ✭✭✭✭cgcsb


    Something Else
    SusieBlue wrote: »
    My theory is that they were being watched.
    It was written in the restaurant reservations book that the Tapas group had a specific table block booked at a specific table for the whole week.

    A good theory, but the main flaw being anyone watching would have observed an unlocked patio door and used that to take the kids. Instead you have Kate McCann tampering with a window.

    They would have also taken the younger kids, why leave them? surely they also have market value to some people.
    SusieBlue wrote: »

    And lastly, they persist on bringing media attention to it over a decade later.

    A possibility is they get off on it. Lots of psychopaths enjoy the fame, some even get themselves caught on purpose.


  • #3278
    cgcsb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,032 ✭✭✭✭cgcsb


    Something Else
    SusieBlue wrote: »
    Wrong, on so many counts here. The DNA found was not proven to be Madeleine's, in fact it was proven that it could have been the DNA of Kate, Gerry or the twins.

    There is no evidence Kate tampered with the window.
    There is evidence that Portuguese police failed to preserve the crime scene, allowing the world and his wife traipse through the apartment, hence damaging chances of finding any DNA.

    Her palm print was on the glass, not on the handle, the blind was opened from the inside. Kidnappers will go through open doors before they try to climb through windows while carrying sedated kids.


  • #3279
    cgcsb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,032 ✭✭✭✭cgcsb


    Something Else
    SusieBlue wrote: »
    Here you go:

    yes, 'later' as in 25 days later.


  • #3280
    SusieBlue
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,029 ✭✭✭SusieBlue


    She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)
    cgcsb wrote: »
    A good theory, but the main flaw being anyone watching would have observed an unlocked patio door and used that to take the kids. Instead you have Kate McCann tampering with a window.

    They would have also taken the younger kids, why leave them? surely they also have market value to some people.

    Maybe they thought they heard someone at the door so ran out the window? Or maybe the getaway car was waiting at the other side?

    As for the other kids, maybe they couldn't carry 3 children? Maybe h/she specifically wanted Madeleine?
    A myriad of reasons can explain both scenarios.
    A possibility is they get off on it. Lots of psychopaths enjoy the fame, some even get themselves caught on purpose.
    Yeah that's quite a stretch even for you, absolutely no evidence whatsoever of them being psychopaths or indeed, having psychopathic traits.
    I know it doesn't suit your narrative but its the truth.


  • #3281
    SusieBlue
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,029 ✭✭✭SusieBlue


    She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)
    cgcsb wrote: »
    yes, 'later' as in 25 days later.

    So where did they keep her for 25 days?
    And a better question, why didn't the Portuguese police catch them in the act seeing as by that point they were under near constant surveillance, by both the police and the media?


  • Advertisement
  • #3282
    cgcsb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,032 ✭✭✭✭cgcsb


    Something Else
    SusieBlue wrote: »
    Jeffrey Dhamer and Ted Bundy were serial killers.
    Unless you are suggesting that Madeleine wasn't the first toddler Kate & Gerry killed it has no relevance.

    Its unrealistic to suggest two normal people with no prior violent history murdered their child and went off to dinner half an hour later as if nothing had happened.

    Dhammer and Bundy acted perfectly normally immediately before and after their first kill. The number of times you do it doesn't necessarily matter, some people can just do it.


  • #3283
    SusieBlue
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,029 ✭✭✭SusieBlue


    She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)
    cgcsb wrote: »
    Dhammer and Bundy acted perfectly normally immediately before and after their first kill. The number of times you do it doesn't necessarily matter, some people can just do it.

    And what evidence do you have to back up that Kate & Gerry murdered their toddler in cold blood?


  • #3284
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    splinter65 wrote:
    The twins were drug tested and no drugs were found. There you go that’s all cleared up for you.


    They were tested late September 2007. Madeline disappeared May 3rd 2007.


  • #3285
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 4,727 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Something Else
    SusieBlue wrote: »
    My theory is that they were being watched.
    It was written in the restaurant reservations book that the Tapas group had a specific table block booked at a specific table for the whole week.

    It was noted in the book that the specific table was needed because the parents were going to be dining while their kids were in bed in the apartments.
    This book was accessible by the waiters, bartenders, cleaners and not hidden from the general public.
    Anyone could have seen this note.

    All it would have taken would have been a day or two of observation to establish the routine.
    Its widely accepted that the McCann apartment was the most vulnerable as it had street access.
    I think someone sinister learned that they were leaving their children alone, watched, and took their opportunity.

    I believe she was taken out of PdeL almost immediately.
    Where to, I don't know. But I don't believe she was there for long after she was taken.

    I find this scenario far more believable and reasonable than Kate and/or Gerry murdering their child, getting the other partner on board with it, dumping a body in an unfamiliar location and then carrying about their business as usual until they feigned the "abduction".
    It becomes even less believable when you consider that some think the Tapas group were also involved in the cover up, would you lie for your friend if they murdered their own kid?

    And lastly, they persist on bringing media attention to it over a decade later. Everyone would have long forgotten about Madeleine if her parents hadn't persisted in keeping her name in the public domain over the last few years.
    Why would they keep attracting attention to themselves if they were in any way responsible?

    The worst things in the world have been said about them, and some of it deservedly so, because they were STUPID to leave the kids alone.

    But why would they keep dragging this negative attention, this media intrusion, this judgment from the court of public opinion on themselves & their twins unless they knew someone else was responsible for their child going missing?

    Because they know they aren't responsible & they feel a massive burden of guilt for leaving Madeleine in a position where she could be taken from them.

    I appreciate and respect other people's opinions and theories on this case.
    I have my doubts about this one though.
    Someone would have had to have seen that reservation book early enough in the holiday and have had time to plan it.

    The checks were every 30 minutes approximately. But they were on holidays and likely not following a strict schedule. So a 09:30pm check might have been made one evening at 09:25pm, and another evening at 09:37pm.
    That presents a big problem for the abductor.

    Also, they would have observed that apartment 5A had 3 sleeping children.
    There is a lot of potential there for causing a scene if even one child wakes up.

    Its definitely not something to just dismiss though and should remain as a line of inquiry.


  • #3286
    weldoninhio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,311 ✭✭✭✭weldoninhio


    Something Else
    SusieBlue wrote: »
    Maybe they thought they heard someone at the door so ran out the window? Or maybe the getaway car was waiting at the other side?

    As for the other kids, maybe they couldn't carry 3 children? Maybe h/she specifically wanted Madeleine?
    A myriad of reasons can explain both scenarios.

    Yeah that's quite a stretch even for you, absolutely no evidence whatsoever of them being psychopaths or indeed, having psychopathic traits.
    I know it doesn't suit your narrative but its the truth.

    This is the window that was closed and the curtains tucked in at the side of the bed?? Thats some seriously considerate abductors, passing a child out the window (without disturbing any of the moss/lichen), then closing and locking the window from the inside, fixing the curtains and vanishing into thin air.


  • #3287
    cgcsb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,032 ✭✭✭✭cgcsb


    Something Else
    SusieBlue wrote: »
    So where did they keep her for 25 days?

    I don't know. Like I said it's purely theoretical. Only the McCanns know what they did and how. Unless they want to fess up about why they told so many lies, people are going to speculate.
    SusieBlue wrote: »
    And a better question, why didn't the Portuguese police catch them in the act seeing as by that point they were under near constant surveillance, by both the police and the media?

    The police presence was thin on the ground in the first week or so. The media doted over the 2 of them for the first 3 months, they weren't under surveillance.


  • #3288
    SusieBlue
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,029 ✭✭✭SusieBlue


    She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)
    Deleted User wrote: »
    I appreciate and respect other people's opinions and theories on this case.
    I have my doubts about this one though.
    Someone would have had to have seen that reservation book early enough in the holiday and have had time to plan it.

    The checks were every 30 minutes approximately. But they were on holidays and likely not following a strict schedule. So a 09:30pm check might have been made one evening at 09:25pm, and another evening at 09:37pm.
    That presents a big problem for the abductor.

    Also, they would have observed that apartment 5A had 3 sleeping children.
    There is a lot of potential there for causing a scene if even one child wakes up.

    Its definitely not something to just dismiss though and should remain as a line of inquiry.

    But yet its more plausible that her own parents killed her and dumped her body some time in a very small frame of time, between 6 and 8pm, and then feigned her abduction?


  • #3289
    SusieBlue
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,029 ✭✭✭SusieBlue


    She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)
    cgcsb wrote: »
    I don't know. Like I said it's purely theoretical. Only the McCanns know what they did and how. Unless they want to fess up about why they told so many lies, people are going to speculate.



    The police presence was thin on the ground in the first week or so. The media doted over the 2 of them for the first 3 months, they weren't under surveillance.

    This wasn't a week or two though, this was 25 days.
    Over 3 weeks, and closer to 4. Even if the police presence at that point was thin (which I don't believe), every news channel and journalist in the world was camped outside where they were staying.
    I don't believe they could have dumped the body 25 days later undetected with that level of media attention.


  • #3290
    cgcsb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,032 ✭✭✭✭cgcsb


    Something Else
    SusieBlue wrote: »
    And what evidence do you have to back up that Kate & Gerry murdered their toddler in cold blood?

    I don't believe they did, am open to correction on that I suppose they overdosed her accidentally. If they did want rid of her though, I suppose going to Portugal does make sense though, proximity to Morocco and a lax attitude to policing provide a good bit of headway.


  • #3291
    Thepoet85
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,764 ✭✭✭Thepoet85


    splinter65 wrote:
    No none of them are.


    As the father of a baby girl that takes Phenergen, I can assure you that the antihistamine can act as a sedative.


  • Advertisement
  • #3292
    Mike9832
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,912 ✭✭✭Mike9832


    Thepoet85 wrote: »
    As the father of a baby girl that takes Phenergen, I can assure you that the antihistamine can act as a sedative.

    They do for sure

    I used to get very drossy as a teenager taking hay-fever tablets


  • #3293
    SusieBlue
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,029 ✭✭✭SusieBlue


    She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)
    cgcsb wrote: »
    I don't believe they did, am open to correction on that I suppose they overdosed her accidentally. If they did want rid of her though, I suppose going to Portugal does make sense though, proximity to Morocco and a lax attitude to policing provide a good bit of headway.

    There is no evidence the children were sedated. None at all.
    The only flimsy evidence is that the twins slept through the chaos which doesn't count as "proof".

    As for your second point, can you expand on that?
    Why would the proximity of Morocco have any relevance?
    I ask because I refuse to believe you are suggesting her own parents sold her to traffickers.
    This will be a peak low point of the thread if that's what you're alluding to, but I hope you mean something else.


  • #3294
    micks_address
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,234 ✭✭✭micks_address


    Watching the documentary and on episode 7 now i think.. its interesting re the dogs.. i guess though it could be anyones blood/body they might have registered. Id forgotten a lot of the detail from back then. I wouldnt be surprised if the netflix documentary yields some more leads.. it at very least generates a lot more interest. Its hard to not start putting 2 and 2 together when you hear about the mother being an anesthestist and how soundly the other kids slept through all the comotion after the alarm was raised. She kept checking their breathing as well. It was pointed out could have been the potential kidnapper drugged then. If she was accidently overdosed on sedatives - then the blood makes no sense.. i guess the most obvious path is she was taken to order and trafficed to somewhere else..

    still as a parent we are always worried about leaving the kids alone.. even at age 12 and 16.. we paid younger baby sitters to mind them when they were small.. hindsight is always great.. i bet not many parents do the same while on holiday since then


  • #3295
    micks_address
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,234 ✭✭✭micks_address


    what are the last reported live sightins of madeline? From the netflix series its her mother picking her and her siblings up from the kids club and taking them back to the appartment?


  • #3296
    limnam
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,345 ✭✭✭limnam


    Guy:Incognito wrote: »
    Are you doing this deliberately?


    I asked the same question took me awhile to realize i was been had


  • #3297
    cgcsb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,032 ✭✭✭✭cgcsb


    Something Else
    SusieBlue wrote: »
    Maybe they thought they heard someone at the door so ran out the window?

    Child in arms, in dead silence, have you ever opened one of those outside steel blinds they have in mediterranean countries? they're neither quick or discrete, never mind the physical act of carrying a child.

    Also this theory also requires all 3 kids to be sedated.
    SusieBlue wrote: »
    Or maybe the getaway car was waiting at the other side?

    friend who seen man with child and supports the McCann's version of events said he was on foot.
    SusieBlue wrote: »
    Yeah that's quite a stretch even for you, absolutely no evidence whatsoever of them being psychopaths or indeed, having psychopathic traits.
    I know it doesn't suit your narrative but its the truth.
    Like I said it's a theory, slightly more realistic than Kate McCann's tales of a window kidnapper.


  • #3298
    SusieBlue
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,029 ✭✭✭SusieBlue


    She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)
    micks_address wrote: »
    what are the last reported live sightins of madeline? From the netflix series its her mother picking her and her siblings up from the kids club and taking them back to the appartment?

    Madeleine was last independently seen when she was being signed out of kids club, where she had been for the afternoon, at around 6pm on the day she disappeared.
    She was seen by hotel staff, other children and parents.
    You can view a copy of the sign out sheet from the club online where you can see Kate's signature signing her out, as well as the time stamp.

    There is no doubt she was alive and well up until that point.


  • #3299
    cgcsb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,032 ✭✭✭✭cgcsb


    Something Else
    SusieBlue wrote: »
    But yet its more plausible that her own parents killed her and dumped her body some time in a very small frame of time, between 6 and 8pm, and then feigned her abduction?

    well yes actually


  • #3300
    SusieBlue
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,029 ✭✭✭SusieBlue


    She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)
    cgcsb wrote: »
    Child in arms, in dead silence, have you ever opened one of those outside steel blinds they have in mediterranean countries? they're neither quick or discrete, never mind the physical act of carrying a child.

    Also this theory also requires all 3 kids to be sedated.



    friend who seen man with child and supports the McCann's version of events said he was on foot.


    Like I said it's a theory, slightly more realistic than Kate McCann's tales of a window kidnapper.

    Its long been accepted that Jane Tanners sighting was not the kidnapper and was another father collecting his child from the creche.
    This sighting has long since been ruled out and if you'd actually watched the documentary you'd know this.


  • Advertisement
  • #3301
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 4,727 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Something Else
    micks_address wrote: »
    Watching the documentary and on episode 7 now i think.. its interesting re the dogs.. i guess though it could be anyones blood/body they might have registered. Id forgotten a lot of the detail from back then. I wouldnt be surprised if the netflix documentary yields some more leads.. it at very least generates a lot more interest. Its hard to not start putting 2 and 2 together when you hear about the mother being an anesthestist and how soundly the other kids slept through all the comotion after the alarm was raised. She kept checking their breathing as well. It was pointed out could have been the potential kidnapper drugged then. If she was accidently overdosed on sedatives - then the blood makes no sense.. i guess the most obvious path is she was taken to order and trafficed to somewhere else..

    still as a parent we are always worried about leaving the kids alone.. even at age 12 and 16.. we paid younger baby sitters to mind them when they were small.. hindsight is always great.. i bet not many parents do the same while on holiday since then

    The police investigated and nobody else ever died in that apartment that we know of. It would be be quite unlikely that somebody else died at some point and it was unknown to anyone.


This discussion has been closed.
Advertisement