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Mass shooting New Zealand Mosque - MOD NOTE POST #1

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Comments

  • #692
    Hector Savage
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,809 ✭✭✭Hector Savage


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Does anyone else think the media covering Ardern saying she'll never say the suspects name, to such an extent that it's breaking news, a touch ironic?

    His name, while it matters a bit, is largely irrelevant. He's getting more exposure now from the media's coverage.

    Exactly, it's almost like "The N word" - the actual word is put in your head when you hear it.

    Now it becomes a "He who must not be named" taboo subject, almost makes it more curious.

    That video too, I am surprised to see how popular it is, I checked a torrent site and saw (assuming it was the correct one I didn't download it) that it has a huge seeding.

    Watching it you are just doing what he'd want.


  • #693
    Danzy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,066 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    Muahahaha wrote: »
    Whatever about a NZ citizen getting a gun license you'd have to wonder about them giving them out to people who weren't born there.



    The Nazis appropriated the swastika from Hindu culture where it has existed for thousands of years. Buddhists use it too, it represents well being

    It is also an ancient European symbol.

    The Brigids cross, coming from the same stable, rather than being just a cross.

    You'll see it in the book of Kells as well.


  • #694
    SoundsRight
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 408 ✭✭SoundsRight


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Does anyone else think the media covering Ardern saying she'll never say the suspects name, to such an extent that it's breaking news, a touch ironic?

    His name, while it matters a bit, is largely irrelevant. He's getting more exposure now from the media's coverage.

    She's actually adding to his notoriety with her silly virtue signalling. She's making him out to be something like the Candyman, where you can't even speak his name.

    Until society address the issues Tarrant raised in his manifesto, then we'll have learned nothing from this attack. Gun reform and policing the internet are just distractions from the fundamental problem.


  • #695
    Boggles
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 42,511 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    SoundsRight wrote: »
    Until society address the issues Tarrant raised in his manifesto,

    Fook him and his cowardly ramblings TBH.

    Manifesto me hole.


  • #696
    batgoat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,423 ✭✭✭batgoat


    SoundsRight wrote: »
    She's actually adding to his notoriety with her silly virtue signalling. She's making him out to be something like the Candyman, where you can't even speak his name.

    Until society address the issues Tarrant raised in his manifesto, then we'll have learned nothing from this attack. Gun reform and policing the internet are just distractions from the fundamental problem.

    New Zealand does not have a problem with Islamic fundamentalism. So it was a hateful person who committed a terror attack. It's pretty shameful that you're repeatedly implying he has a point.


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  • #697
    Nerdlingr
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,381 ✭✭✭Nerdlingr


    I'm delighted with Ardens saying she'll not say his name.
    I said it on here before he should be forgotten about, wipe his name form the records. Make him irrelevant.
    What these narcissistic f*ckers want the most is their name in lights and their moment in the sun. He wants to represent himself in court. Same as Brevik.
    F*ck him and his Manifesto. The less we feed these idiots and pander to them the better. IMO there is nothing to be 'learned' from here. The guy is a child murdering coward - lets not big him up to anything more than that.


  • #698
    SoundsRight
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 408 ✭✭SoundsRight


    batgoat wrote: »
    New Zealand does not have a problem with Islamic fundamentalism. So it was a hateful person who committed a terror attack. It's pretty shameful that you're repeatedly implying he has a point.

    If certain issues drive a man who had a normal upbringing to commit mass murder, don't you think that should be looked at?


  • #699
    mvl
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,229 ✭✭✭mvl


    Hector Savage wrote: »
    That video too, I am surprised to see how popular it is, I checked a torrent site and saw (assuming it was the correct one I didn't download it) that it has a huge seeding.

    Watching it you are just doing what he'd want.


    Guess there would be studies analyzing profiles of ppl that do watch it, or what would be the effect on those individuals, same as https://digest.bps.org.uk/2019/03/08/a-new-study-has-investigated-who-watched-the-isis-beheading-videos-why-and-what-effect-it-had-on-them
    ... I appreciate Jacinda's leadership from day one, she is so contemporary (actually I heard ppl see her future beyond NZs PM, to UN);
    Of course this event has lots of media focus these days // so from the coverage that's there, I'd rather listen/read her speeches, than opening another haka story, tbh.
    Guess ppl who're not like me would be keen to watch the video anyway.

    #kiakaha


  • #700
    1641
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,292 ✭✭✭1641


    SoundsRight wrote: »
    If certain issues drive a man who had a normal upbringing to commit mass murder, don't you think that should be looked at?


    I don't know anything about his upbringing, but if by "certain issues" you mean the hate spewers who incite hatred and paranoia on social media, and the companies that drive this for million/billion dollar profits, then I agree with you.


  • #701
    Boggles
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 42,511 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    SoundsRight wrote: »
    If certain issues drive a man who had a normal upbringing to commit mass murder, don't you think that should be looked at?

    He is racist cowardly mass murdering scum bag.

    He is neither complex nor unique.

    Pixalate him entirely, have the shortest trial in NZ history and fook him a hole to rot for the rest of his life.


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  • #702
    Jelle1880
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,839 ✭✭✭Jelle1880


    Society has to address the issues he raised ? What the actual ****.


  • #703
    batgoat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,423 ✭✭✭batgoat


    SoundsRight wrote: »
    If certain issues drive a man who had a normal upbringing to commit mass murder, don't you think that should be looked at?

    You'll find plenty of serial killers had normal upbringings too. Shall we have a debate if their warped motivations are worth a discussion? You seem to have not a care in the slightest for the victims. Instead, you want to see if there's a rationalisation for killing a load of innocent people including children. That is based upon your own anti Muslim views.

    Edit:won't engage further with you at this point.


  • #704
    Boggles
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 42,511 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    Jelle1880 wrote: »
    Society has to address the issues he raised ? What the actual ****.

    You see, that is exactly why you have to make cowards that commit these type of crimes merely a footnote in the story.

    As certain people out there would see him as someone who has raised valid issues that need addressing, the type of individuals who would attack the NZ PM but at the same time legitimize this scum bag.


  • #705
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,321 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Boggles wrote:
    He is racist cowardly mass murdering scum bag.

    He is neither complex nor unique.
    Given racist cowardly types that plan ahead, move countries to get better access to weapons and a a society not prepared for such an act and go ahead an commit mass murder are not exactly two a penny, he is unique to some degree and there was a complex set of circumstances that came together to enable this tragedy. Some of which might be flagged in others before similar happens elsewhere and again.
    batgoat wrote: »
    You'll find plenty of serial killers had normal upbringings too. Shall we have a debate if their warped motivations are worth a discussion?
    Actually that's precisely what law enforcement agencies and psychologists do. It's how over time detection and catching these scumbags has improved. Calling such warped individuals "evil" is easy and comforting, but it does eff all to stop the next one.

    Then again the prick in the Netherlands was "known to police" had all sorts of beady eyes on him, yet was able to find a weapon and murder three people in broad daylight, so that's another issue; acting on information about pricks like this.

    Many worry about Artificial Intelligence. I worry far more about Organic Idiocy.



  • #706
    SoundsRight
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 408 ✭✭SoundsRight


    batgoat wrote: »
    You'll find plenty of serial killers had normal upbringings too. Shall we have a debate if their warped motivations are worth a discussion? You seem to have not a care in the slightest for the victims. Instead, you want to see if there's a rationalisation for killing a load of innocent people including children. That is based upon your own anti Muslim views.

    Edit:won't engage further with you at this point.


    Actually yes, in the aftermath of a tragedy like this there is value to be gained from looking at the causes and motivation. If you want to sweep it under the rug and hope it doesn't happen again than you're doing a disservice to the victims


  • #707
    dav3
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,671 ✭✭✭dav3


    SoundsRight wrote: »
    Until society address the issues Tarrant raised in his manifesto, then we'll have learned nothing from this attack.

    Well you wouldn't be just applying that logic to that particular terrorist. You'd have to apply that to all terrorists, terrorist groups and mass murders throughout the world. That's not usually the reasoning you would hear from any sane person. I don't think you would hear any anti-terrorism unit claim the the only way to deal with these terrorists or learn from an attack, is to address the issues raised by them.

    The key word here being "address". In other words, pander to their wishes and demands.


  • #708
    batgoat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,423 ✭✭✭batgoat


    Wibbs wrote: »
    Given racist cowardly types that plan ahead, move countries to get better access to weapons and a a society not prepared for such an act and go ahead an commit mass murder are not exactly two a penny, he is unique to some degree and there was a complex set of circumstances that came together to enable this tragedy. Some of which might be flagged in others before similar happens elsewhere and again.

    Actually that's precisely what law enforcement agencies and psychologists do. It's how over time detection and catching these scumbags has improved. Calling such warped individuals "evil" is easy and comforting, but it does eff all to stop the next one.

    Then again the prick in the Netherlands was "known to police" had all sorts of beady eyes on him, yet was able to find a weapon and murder three people in broad daylight, so that's another issue; acting on information about pricks like this.

    I'm perfectly aware of the fact that such motivations are studied. But they're not reduced to the point of saying "he actually has a point". Which is what the previous user is implying so it's a drastically different way of approaching it.


  • #709
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,050 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    Nerdlingr wrote:
    I'm delighted with Ardens saying she'll not say his name. I said it on here before he should be forgotten about, wipe his name form the records. Make him irrelevant. What these narcissistic f*ckers want the most is their name in lights and their moment in the sun. He wants to represent himself in court. Same as Brevik. F*ck him and his Manifesto. The less we feed these idiots and pander to them the better. IMO there is nothing to be 'learned' from here. The guy is a child murdering coward - lets not big him up to anything more than that.


    So not mentioning his name will prevent such events in the future?


  • #710
    KikiLaRue
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,283 ✭✭✭KikiLaRue


    SoundsRight wrote: »
    She's actually adding to his notoriety with her silly virtue signalling. She's making him out to be something like the Candyman, where you can't even speak his name.

    Until society address the issues Tarrant raised in his manifesto, then we'll have learned nothing from this attack. Gun reform and policing the internet are just distractions from the fundamental problem.

    When ISIS attacked that Ariana Grande concert, did you think we should address the issues they raise in their manifesto?

    If not, why do you treat the manifesto of this mass murderer differently to that mass murderer?


  • #711
    Nerdlingr
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,381 ✭✭✭Nerdlingr


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    So not mentioning his name will prevent such events in the future?

    Where did i say that? Great strawman argument there.
    By not mentioning his name we can at least deprive him in a little way of what he wants - notoriety.
    And nothing will prevent such events in the future. That is the sad, cold reality of the matter. You can read as much as you want into his manifesto and try to work out why he did such things in some vain attempt it will prevent another killing.
    Truth is if someone gun toting maniac wants to walk into a McDonalds in the morning and shoot up the place he can.


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  • #712
    o1s1n
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,446 ✭✭✭✭o1s1n
    Master of the Universe


    Nerdlingr wrote: »
    I'm delighted with Ardens saying she'll not say his name.
    I said it on here before he should be forgotten about, wipe his name form the records. Make him irrelevant.
    What these narcissistic f*ckers want the most is their name in lights and their moment in the sun. He wants to represent himself in court. Same as Brevik.
    F*ck him and his Manifesto. The less we feed these idiots and pander to them the better. IMO there is nothing to be 'learned' from here. The guy is a child murdering coward - lets not big him up to anything more than that.

    So should we forget about all mass murderers then? Just wipe them from our collective memories?

    I really wish people would stop with this virtuous bull****. Whether you or anyone 'doesn't say the perpetrators name' is utterly irrelevant.

    The event has happened, the perpetrator has been named. The best we can do now is to ensure he faces the full strength of the law and doesn't harm anyone ever again.

    If you murder a load of people you are going to gain notoriety. It just the way things work.


  • #713
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,050 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    Nerdlingr wrote:
    Where did i say that? Great strawman argument there. By not mentioning his name we can at least deprive him of what he wants - notoriety. And nothing will prevent such events in the future. That is the sad, cold reality of the matter. You can read as much as you want into his manifesto and try to work out why he did such things in some vain attempt it will prevent another killing. Truth is if someone gun toting maniac wants to walk into a McDonalds in the morning and shoot up the place he can.


    I understand the country is in shock and in a state of mourning, but I can't see not mentioning his name being of any benefit, the damage is done


  • #714
    KikiLaRue
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,283 ✭✭✭KikiLaRue


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    I understand the country is in shock and in a state of mourning, but I can't see not mentioning his name being of any benefit, the damage is done

    On it's own, it doesn't mean a lot. Combined with
    - fast-tracking visas for relatives to come to the funeral
    - paying for the funeral
    - financial assistance for families

    and other measures she has announced, the PM is making it clear that her focus will be on the victims. I think that's admirable.


  • #715
    Nerdlingr
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,381 ✭✭✭Nerdlingr


    o1s1n wrote: »
    So should we forget about all mass murderers then? Just wipe them from our collective memories?

    I really wish people would stop with this virtuous bull****. Whether you or anyone 'doesn't say the perpetrators name' is utterly irrelevant.

    The event has happened, the perpetrator has been named. The best we can do now is to ensure he faces the full strength of the law and doesn't harm anyone ever again.

    If you murder a load of people you are going to gain notoriety. It just the way things work.

    I'm sure the NZ authorities are taking care of that. I doubt we'll see him out walking the streets any time soon.
    As I've said before - lets not pander to him. And yes I would rather we wipe mass murderers from our collective memories. Blur his face, dont say his name, stick him in solidarity confinement and let him rot. The world will move on without him. People think we have something to learn from these radicals, that somehow if we understand why this guy did this we can stop others doing the same. I disagree with that. He is the ultimate troll and i'd wipe my @rse with his manifesto.


  • #716
    Boggles
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 42,511 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    I understand the country is in shock and in a state of mourning, but I can't see not mentioning his name being of any benefit, the damage is done

    It's not just about mentioning his name, it's the wall to wall coverage of every small detail of his life.

    There are studies there backed up with relevant data, that spree killers should be just a footnote to the story, that victims and heroes should be front and center to avoid contagion and copy cat inspired killers in the future.

    Some newspapers and networks are copping on, putting pictures of the victims on the front page instead of the scumbag holding a gun, laughing, etc.

    Anyway this particular scumbag wants notoriety and his 10 minutes in the spot light, fast track the trial, pixalate the fook out of him and throw him jail, it will annoy him more than anything else.


  • #717
    o1s1n
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,446 ✭✭✭✭o1s1n
    Master of the Universe


    Nerdlingr wrote: »
    I'm sure the NZ authorities are taking care of that. I doubt we'll see him out walking the streets any time soon.
    As I've said before - lets not pander to him. And yes I would rather we wipe mass murderers from our collective memories. Blur his face, dont say his name, stick him in solidarity confinement and let him rot. The world will move on without him. People think we have something to learn from these radicals, that somehow if we understand why this guy did this we can stop others doing the same. I disagree with that. He is the ultimate troll and i'd wipe my @rse with his manifesto.

    It's just such an incredibly naive point of view. You do know that many murderers, rapists and horrible people are released from prison after serving their time?

    If their association with such events had been wiped from memory, then nobody would know who they are upon their release - putting people in danger.


  • #718
    SoundsRight
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 408 ✭✭SoundsRight


    KikiLaRue wrote: »
    When ISIS attacked that Ariana Grande concert, did you think we should address the issues they raise in their manifesto?

    If not, why do you treat the manifesto of this mass murderer differently to that mass murderer?

    Their manifesto is directed at their people. We have little control over what is taught in mosques and madrasas. Tarrant's is aimed at us. We can either look at what motivated him, and try and prevent future attacks, or do what Ardern does and play into his hands. He's probably laughing at her walking around in a headscarf.


  • #719
    KikiLaRue
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,283 ✭✭✭KikiLaRue


    SoundsRight wrote: »
    Their manifesto is directed at their people. We have little control over what is taught in mosques and madrasas. Tarrant's is aimed at us. We can either look at what motivated him, and try and prevent future attacks, or do what Ardern does and play into his hands. He's probably laughing at her walking around in a headscarf.

    You're in a small minority in criticising her response, which has been widely praised.

    Who cares if he's laughing at her in a headscarf? She's showing empathy to the victims, IDGAF what he thinks.


  • #720
    Boggles
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 42,511 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    SoundsRight wrote: »
    Their manifesto is directed at their people. We have little control over what is taught in mosques and madrasas. Tarrant's is aimed at us.

    It might be aimed at you, but not me lad, I have absolutely no time for racist scumbag cowardly murderers or their opinion on anything.


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  • #721
    Nerdlingr
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,381 ✭✭✭Nerdlingr


    o1s1n wrote: »
    It's just such an incredibly naive point of view. You do know that many murderers, rapists and horrible people are released from prison after serving their time?

    If their association with such events had been wiped from memory, then nobody would know who they are upon their release - putting people in danger.

    Ah jesus....We're specifically talking about mass murderers here!!, or you know, radicals who've driven trucks into people in Nice, shot up the Bataclan, Killed 50 in NZ, massacred kids in utoya, detonated bombs in a concert in Manchester. Not tommy down the road who's been let back into society.


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