The Disappearance of Madeleine McCann (Netflix)

BobbyBobberson · 18-03-2019 11:57PM

brookers wrote: »

Im on ep 3, a shiver went through me when Jim Gamble said he didnt like Jerry and found him very cold......something does not add up with the whole tapas scene, when Kate got to the apartment and discovered M missing but at the same time how could you go through the whole charade of meeting the pope, flying all over the world, writing books, if you were hiding something. Its a tough one. I couldnt imagine leaving kids though in an apartment, twins who were only two, my God to go and eat and drink and they out of sight with open doors.....

I know. Also there was a babysitter service? And they were doctors so hardly broke. So strange!

tuxy · 19-03-2019 12:05AM

splinter65 wrote: »

How did the twins survive the sedatives or did they only sedate Madeleine? How did they get rid of her body? When? Where?

Not saying I believe in the sedative theory but I don't completely discount it.

Different dosage of sedative would be needed based on body weight. Them being doctors may have made them overconfident that they could measure the correct dosage.

Tipsy McSwagger · 19-03-2019 09:11AM

You don’t need to sedate a child out playing in the sun all day. I’ve been to the algarve too many times to mention and a regular site is parent carrying unconscious kids home from the beach, pool, towns. These kids are not gonna need sedatives to sleep through the night.

Tipsy McSwagger · 19-03-2019 09:14AM

splinter65 wrote: »

How did the twins survive the sedatives or did they only sedate Madeleine? How did they get rid of her body? When? Where?

I have asked those questions already, nobody replied.

CPTM · 19-03-2019 09:18AM

splinter65 wrote: »

How did they get rid of her body? When? Where?

This is what I can't get my head around - where the body could have been placed. We know that a friend was allowed to go check on the kids, so they couldn't have done anything before that point. Afterwards, kate checked and I can't see her having time to put the body somewhere so quickly. The entire town and staff looked in every spot possible. There's no way a body could have been hidden locally within a 10 minute timeframe which was a good enough hiding spot to avoid being found by an entire town of people specifically looking for it endlessly.

brookers · 19-03-2019 10:19AM

CPTM wrote: »

This is what I can't get my head around - where the body could have been placed. We know that a friend was allowed to go check on the kids, so they couldn't have done anything before that point. Afterwards, kate checked and I can't see her having time to put the body somewhere so quickly. The entire town and staff looked in every spot possible. There's no way a body could have been hidden locally within a 10 minute timeframe which was a good enough hiding spot to avoid being found by an entire town of people specifically looking for it endlessly.

Was there some talk that M had an accident a day before etc giving them time to think up a story. To be honest it all sounds so crazy that they staged the whole thing that the intruder story does sound true, however their behaviour on the night and that of their friends does raise some questions that something is not being told. Personally I think the fact that it wasnt just the mccanns leaving small kids on their own while they dined, is what made the Tapas 7 close ranks and fearing for their jobs, police etc...child neglect etc

RollieFingers · 19-03-2019 10:58AM

I get that they come across as cold people etc. And they absolutely should not have left the kids unattended in my opinion. But if people think the parents were involved, it comes back to what they did with the body? What was the timeframe available to them to efficiently dispose of the body so that it was never found? In a foreign country. Makes no sense.

SusieBlue · 19-03-2019 11:51AM

brookers wrote: »

Was there some talk that M had an accident a day before etc giving them time to think up a story. To be honest it all sounds so crazy that they staged the whole thing that the intruder story does sound true, however their behaviour on the night and that of their friends does raise some questions that something is not being told. Personally I think the fact that it wasnt just the mccanns leaving small kids on their own while they dined, is what made the Tapas 7 close ranks and fearing for their jobs, police etc...child neglect etc

There are independent witnesses who can place Madeleine being signed out of the kids club by Kate at roughly 6pm on the day she went missing.
She had been there for the afternoon and this is confirmed by hotel staff and other parents.
A copy of the sign out sheet showing Kate's signature and a time stamp can be viewed online.

She was undoubtedly alive and well up till 6pm on the evening she went missing, unless we are suggesting that the hotel staff, other parents and holidaymakers are all protecting the McCann's too.

Would you lie to protect your friends for covering up murdering their own child for over a decade? Would you be able to keep the secret even with international media intrusion, speculation about your private life, and unrelentless judgment from the public?
And not one of them has cracked and said a word in 11 years?

SusieBlue · 19-03-2019 11:57AM

CPTM wrote: »

This is what I can't get my head around - where the body could have been placed. We know that a friend was allowed to go check on the kids, so they couldn't have done anything before that point. Afterwards, kate checked and I can't see her having time to put the body somewhere so quickly. The entire town and staff looked in every spot possible. There's no way a body could have been hidden locally within a 10 minute timeframe which was a good enough hiding spot to avoid being found by an entire town of people specifically looking for it endlessly.

Its worth considering as well that this would have occurred before the era of smart phones.
Its even more ludicrous when you note that they would have had to hide the body under immense pressure and stress in an unfamiliar location with no access to google maps, or even the internet, to help them with directions.

They would have had to do this undetected, leaving no evidence, and hidden so well little Madeleine's body still hasn't been found over a decade later.
The mind boggles.

gozunda · 19-03-2019 12:22PM

SusieBlue wrote: »

Its worth considering as well that this would have occurred before the era of smart phones.
Its even more ludicrous when you note that they would have had to hide the body under immense pressure and stress in an unfamiliar location with no access to google maps, or even the internet, to help them with directions.
They would have had to do this undetected, leaving no evidence, and hidden so well little Madeleine's body still hasn't been found over a decade later.The mind boggles.

Nothing is impossible. It is simply another theory which has been neither proven or disproven. However there is some circumstantial evidence to suggest that at lest one of the parents had some prior knowledge of the region. That a large sports bag was allegedly unaccounted for and that the cadaver dog alerted to an area of the garden outside the apartment during the investigation.

But you are correct its quite incredible that Madeleine or indeed her body 'still hasn't been found over a decade later' ....

yourdeadwright · 19-03-2019 12:30PM

Tapas 7 timeline was nonsense, but id say that because they wanted to protect the McCanns from being called bad parents when going through something so terrible
So they just said they checked every 20 minutes to save face not understanding if that was found to be a lie people would think they where hiding something ,

The mother shouting "they took her " straight away is mad, iv a child Maddies age and if she wasn't in bed I'd be thinking where did she wander off to even more so since they left the doors unlocked,

The door onto the street was unlocked, I wouldn't do that if I left my phone or Passport in my apartment let alone my 3 kids,

Something not mentioned on the Netflix programes but an earlier documentary Jane Tanner (one of the 7 said )

Jane Tanner left the table at 9:15pm and saw Gerry talking to Jez Wilkins on the street outside the McCanns apartment, 5a at 9:20pm. Nothing untoward about that version of events, even if it did take two attempts to draw up the timeline torn from the pages of Madeleine's sticker book. However, Jane and Gerry have a discussion during which Jane talks about seeing Gerry on the street talking to Jez Wilkins:

"If you'd have been looking at me, coz I would have said something, coz Kate had been moaning that you'd been gone a long time watching the football"

There's no mention in the statements of Gerry being away watching football.

Gerry doesn't even query this claim by Jane. What bothers me about this though, is that if Gerry did, as he says, leave the table at 9:10pm and Jane left at 9:15 that only leaves 5 minutes. The walk to the apartments takes approximately 2 minutes at a steady pace, that's 4 minutes there and back, 5 minutes if you allow a minute to check on the children. It's hardly long enough for Kate to be complaining that Gerry had been gone a long time watching the football. Although Russell O'Brien and Matt Oldfield did checks at 9:30 and 9:35 respectively, neither of them can confirm they actually saw Madeleine, which places Gerry, on record at least, as the last person to see Madeleine, and now it would seem away from the table for some time, and with no alibi for any more than 2 minutes, when Jez Wilkins and Jane Tanner saw hi,

The whole story just doesn't make sense,

The mother clutching the Teddy bear constantly was odd to me, Did she find Maddie dead clutching the teddy .

Jimbob1977 · 19-03-2019 12:50PM

The McCann's media adviser Justine McGuinness is extremely passive-aggressive. Perfect credentials for a Public Relations guru.

She keeps whacking journalists' microphones down during interviews. About three times now.

And Cuddle Cat flung in the bottom of a cleaning cupboard. That was unusual.

DublinWriter · 19-03-2019 12:59PM

brookers wrote: »

Was there some talk that M had an accident a day before etc giving them time to think up a story.

Didn't witnesses corroborate the story that M was at the sailing club the day she disappeared? This should put to bed any lines of enquiry concerning the parents.

Personally I have a hunch that it was someone who worked at the Ocean Club and who observed the McCann's and T7 timings of when they checked on their children.

jeremyj1968 · 19-03-2019 01:04PM

OmegaGene wrote: »

All the holiday group should be guilty, sitting at a tapas bar getting sloshed over dinner and leaving the kids in the apartment and Gerry reckons it’s the same as eating dinner in your garden Is it f*ck

I don't think the McCanns did themselves by being so disingenuous either. I think the average punter would have had a lot more respect for them if they just fessed up and said "we thought it was safe but we were obviously wrong". The most ridiculous part of it is that they left them there with the possibility of a fire. But then I suppose they would argue that they would have seen the flames!!

brookers wrote: »

Im on ep 3, a shiver went through me when Jim Gamble said he didnt like Jerry and found him very cold....

That was the one thing that stuck with me about Jim Gamble's contribution as well, what he said about Gerry McCann. But I think it may have been just an old sales trick, where you say something against yourself at the start of your presentation, so as to appear as impartial and honest. He was pretty much batting for the McCanns for the rest of his contribution.

The one contribution of a police officer that always fascinated me was the contribution by John Stalker.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-490254/McCanns-hiding-big-secret-police-chief-claims.html

CPTM · 19-03-2019 01:06PM

DublinWriter wrote: »

Didn't witnesses corroborate the story that M was at the sailing club the day she disappeared? This should put to bed any lines of enquiry concerning the parents.

Personally I have a hunch that it was someone who worked at the Ocean Club and who observed the McCann's and T7 timings of when they checked on their children.

Yes, and don't forget the note that had been put in the table reservation book for the restaurant, which said the reason for the specific table request was because the kids would be sleeping alone in the apartment during the meal and the parents wanted to be as close as possible to allow them to see the apartment and also make checks every 30 minutes.

gerrybbadd · 19-03-2019 01:08PM

Tipsy McSwagger wrote: »

You don’t need to sedate a child out playing in the sun all day. I’ve been to the algarve too many times to mention and a regular site is parent carrying unconscious kids home from the beach, pool, towns. These kids are not gonna need sedatives to sleep through the night.

Maybe not. But keep in mind that Maddie had been awake the previous night crying, asking Kate why she didn't come when she and one of the twins was crying.

So perhaps they used a sedative to ensure the kids wouldn't wake and wander while they went for the meal out at the Tapas place?

SusieBlue · 19-03-2019 01:09PM

DublinWriter wrote: »

Didn't witnesses corroborate the story that M was at the sailing club the day she disappeared? This should put to bed any lines of enquiry concerning the parents.

Personally I have a hunch that it was someone who worked at the Ocean Club and who observed the McCann's and T7 group timings of when they checked on their children.

It was written at the restaurant book of reservations that the Tapas group had a block booking for every evening that week at the same time. It was noted on the booking that the reservation was made because the parents would be dining while their children were asleep in the apartments.
There was a copy of this note also at reception.

The book in the restaurant was fully accessible by a wide range of staff, from waiters, bartenders, to cleaners. It was also visible to patrons using the restaurant, it wasn't hidden away.

Anyone could have seen that book and known the children would be alone while their parents were dining. The McCann apartment was the most vulnerable, and most easily accessible from the street.

All it would take would be someone watching over the course of an evening to assess when the kids were being checked, and take their opportunity in between.
Its frightening to think about.

SusieBlue · 19-03-2019 01:13PM

gerrybbadd wrote: »

Maybe not. But keep in mind that Maddie had been awake the previous night crying, asking Kate why she didn't come when she and one of the twins was crying.

So perhaps they used a sedative to ensure the kids wouldn't wake and wander while they went for the meal out at the Tapas place?

If they had bought something locally, there would be a record of this at the local chemists. There would also have been evidence of it in the apartment.
Unless the pharmacist is also lying to protect the McCanns?

If they had brought something with them to Portugal, they would have required a prescription, which again, there would be a record of.

A syringe was found in the apartment, along with a bottle of calpol, but calpol isn't a sedative. Neither is nurofen or paracetamol.

DublinWriter · 19-03-2019 01:14PM

SusieBlue wrote: »

It was noted on the booking that the reservation was made because the parents would be dining while their children were asleep in the apartments.
There was a copy of this note also at reception.

True, but the note didn't say that the children would be unsupervised in their apartments, or that the parents wouldn't be employing babysitters.

I really think someone, or maybe more, had the whole party under close and frequent observation during their stay at the Ocean Club. That could only be an employee.

SusieBlue · 19-03-2019 01:17PM

DublinWriter wrote: »

True, but the note didn't say that the children would be unsupervised in their apartments, or that the parents wouldn't be employing babysitters.

I really think someone, or maybe more, had the whole party under close and frequent observation during their stay at the Ocean Club. That could only be an employee.

This is also my belief. They were being watched and the McCann apartment was the most easily accessible.

yourdeadwright · 19-03-2019 01:18PM

You'd have to think if it wasn't the parents it had to be someone who wads watching the McCann's , The room was the perfect one for adduction right on the side of the road,

But in saying that could she have wondered out on to the street and been taken form there, or hit by a car and thrown in the boot in a panic ?

DublinWriter · 19-03-2019 01:20PM

yourdeadwright wrote: »

or hit by a car and thrown in the boot in a panic ?

The squeal of tyres and/or sound of impact would have been very noticable.

DublinWriter · 19-03-2019 01:22PM

SusieBlue wrote: »

A syringe was found in the apartment, along with a bottle of calpol, but calpol isn't a sedative. Neither is nurofen or paracetamol.

When my son was little, you'd need a syringe to draw out the right dose of Calpol. It wasn't used for injecting into the skin and didn't have a sharp needle...it was more of a crude plastic pipette type thingy.

CPTM · 19-03-2019 01:23PM

yourdeadwright wrote: »

You'd have to think if it wasn't the parents it had to be someone who wads watching the McCann's , The room was the perfect one for adduction right on the side of the road,

But in saying that could she have wondered out on to the street and been taken form there, or hit by a car and thrown in the boot in a panic ?

The reason why I didn't believe the idea of her leaving by herself was because all the doors and gates were shut behind her, including the one which has a child lock. I did have a look around the street where the apartment is, and I do agree with the boardsie who said it was the perfect location for carrying out an abduction. The side street entrance out of view and a dark street exit to the north through the window. I thought I saw someone commenting that the window wasn't proven to have been opened. I thought it was a given that the shutters and window was open when they arrived back?

SusieBlue · 19-03-2019 01:26PM

DublinWriter wrote: »

When my son was little, you'd need a syringe to draw out the right dose of Calpol. It wasn't used for injecting into the skin and didn't have a sharp needle...it was more of a crude plastic pipette type thingy.

Unfortunately some people are jumping on the syringe as if its some sort of golden egg that proves they were dosing Madeleine up to her eyeballs with ketamine and the likes.
Anyone who has been around children will know that most over the counter medicines for kids come with syringes as its easier to get the child to take the medicine from them, rather than off a spoon.

Something extremely innocent and easily explained has been exploited into "proof" that they drugging their kids. Its awful.

skywayavenue · 19-03-2019 01:27PM

CPTM wrote: »

The reason why I didn't believe the idea of her leaving by herself was because all the doors and gates were shut behind her, including the one which has a child lock. I did have a look around the street where the apartment is, and I do agree with the boardsie who said it was the perfect location for carrying out an abduction. The side street entrance out of view and a dark street exit to the north through the window. I thought I saw someone commenting that the window wasn't proven to have been opened. I thought it was a given that the shutters and window was open when they arrived back?

Kate says the windows and shutter were open when she got there, and that a gust of wind had blown the bedroom door shut. But the police say when they arrived they were closed nearly all the way. The only fingerprints they found on it were Kates.

Theboinkmaster · 19-03-2019 01:29PM

yourdeadwright wrote: »

or hit by a car and thrown in the boot in a panic ?

I think this is the most likely scenario.

SusieBlue · 19-03-2019 01:29PM

skywayavenue wrote: »

Kate says the windows and shutter were open when she got there, and that a gust of wind had blown the bedroom door shut. But the police say when they arrived they were closed nearly all the way. The only fingerprints they found on it were Kates.

The scene wasn't contained. Many people went in and out of the apartment before the police arrived, and even after they did, it wasn't sealed.

Numerous people, police, hotel staff, the tapas group and otherwise were in and out of that room in the hours after she disappeared.
Basically nullifying any possibility of evidence being found.
The scene was contaminated due to lack of preservation.

That's why nothing conclusive was found.

skywayavenue · 19-03-2019 01:31PM

SusieBlue wrote: »

The scene wasn't contained. Many people went in and out of the apartment before the police arrived, and even after they did, it wasn't sealed.

Numerous people, police, hotel staff, the tapas group and otherwise were in and out of that room in the hours after she disappeared.
Basically nullifying any possibility of evidence being found.
The scene was contaminated due to lack of preservation.

That's why nothing conclusive was found.

Oh I know - I don't believe she closed them deliberately or anything, I was just replying to the comment about it not being proved they were open.

yourdeadwright · 19-03-2019 01:32PM

SusieBlue wrote: »

The scene wasn't contained. Many people went in and out of the apartment before the police arrived, and even after they did, it wasn't sealed.

Numerous people, police, hotel staff, the tapas group and otherwise were in and out of that room in the hours after she disappeared.
Basically nullifying any possibility of evidence being found.
The scene was contaminated due to lack of preservation.

That's why nothing conclusive was found.

Didn't they say the only prints on the window at all was one palm print from Kates , one which would show she opened the window and not closed it ,

There was zero partial prints of anyone por even glove prints found ,

The Disappearance of Madeleine McCann (Netflix)

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