Madeleine McCann

Plumbthedepths · 17-03-2019 04:13PM

Trekker09 wrote:

So what happened to Madeleine then?

No idea, same as pretty much everyone else. Which is way I made no claim as to what happened to her.

17-03-2019 04:14PM

Trekker09 wrote: »

You're like a broken record! They made a dreadful mistake, we know it and they know it. They went for a bite to eat with a couple of glasses of wine, still wrong but hardly bar crawling.

It's more than wrong imo. How anyone could sit down and eat/drink while their babies are alone in another building is just unbelievable, even if they're upstairs at home you wouldn't run to the shop, I just can't get my head around that part of the story and it's the reason behind whatever happened no matter what you believe to have happened on the night.

splinter65 · 17-03-2019 04:15PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Murat and Malinka got treated appallingly by all involved in the McCannn case.

Who treated them badly?

Plumbthedepths · 17-03-2019 04:16PM

Trekker09 wrote:

You're like a broken record! They made a dreadful mistake, we know it and they know it. They went for a bite to eat with a couple of glasses of wine, still wrong but hardly bar crawling.

According to reports at the time, the McCanns left their children alone for the 3 nights prior to her disappearance.

iamwhoiam · 17-03-2019 04:18PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Trekker09 wrote: »

So if she wasn't taken then the McCanns killed her? Sorry, but in my view they had nothing intentionally to do with her disappearance.

I have no idea actually . What I do know is that I have an open mind as no evidence of anything is proven . Nothing can be ruled out as no clues or any leads were ever found
My own opinion is that it was an inside job , the group had pre booked a table for 5 nights . The pattern was easy to see and was easy to spot that children were alone . The Mc Canns apartment was vulnerable and closest to the public road . It wouldn't take much to spot an opportunity to snatch a child , into a car and gone into the mountains north of P da L before the next check was even due
But thats only my opinion and certainly wouldn't proclaim it as fact

Trekker09 · 17-03-2019 04:18PM

limnam wrote: »

A dreadful mistake.

Yet hardly bar crawling

What difference does it make. They left 3 kids under 4 in an unsecured apartment that can be accessed publicly while they sat in a restaurant eating and drinking.

Downplay it all you like. It's not dreadful because it wasn't that bad.

Stop putting words in my mouth. I haven't downplayed it, but like most tragedies it's a combination of various factors, some of which you can control and others that you can't. Most people can't be 100% perfect 100% al of the time, and yes, our judgement can suck at times, but fortunately most of us don't have to deal with the consequences that the McCanns have had to face.

Plumbthedepths · 17-03-2019 04:23PM

splinter65 wrote:

Who treated them badly?

Police,Media detective agency working for the McCanns etc etc. Murat received over 600,000 for liable against him and an apology in court.

Calltocall · 17-03-2019 04:31PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

iamwhoiam wrote: »

I have no idea actually . What I do know is that I have an open mind as no evidence of anything is proven . Nothing can be ruled out as no clues or any leads were ever found
My own opinion is that it was an inside job , the group had pre booked a table for 5 nights . The pattern was easy to see and was easy to spot that children were alone . The Mc Canns apartment was vulnerable and closest to the public road . It wouldn't take much to spot an opportunity to snatch a child , into a car and gone into the mountains north of P da L before the next check was even due
But thats only my opinion and certainly wouldn't proclaim it as fact

I agree, I’ve thought that before, somebody must have been watching them, their patterns at the evening meals etc how long of a gap they left before checking on the kids otherwise it was seriously risky as the abductor could have walked in when kate and gerry were there, too high risk without knowing they definitely wouldn’t be there so he must have observed them it’s just odd that nobody would have spotted a lone person watching them particularly if he had been watching them for a few nights, such a strange case that in all these years not one solid lead has emerged

Wombatman · 17-03-2019 04:32PM

Should have at least used the babysitting service that was available.

What do people make of Kate's body language in the very first press address? Didn't look up once. If I was in appeal mode I'd be looking right at you with my face forward. If I had something to hide I might be looking at my shoes. Maybe it was just the shame of knowing she neglected her daughter by leaving her exposed.

Trekker09 · 17-03-2019 04:33PM

limnam wrote: »

You give out about people having binary views yet you seem pretty set in yours.

On this subject I have changed my views several times over the years and who knows what my opinion will be in the future. What I have done is weighed up the probabilities, options and different scenarios and this reflects my current view of the situation.

Most of what I've seen in this thread is people fighting over pedantics rather than the details of teh case.

Trekker09 · 17-03-2019 04:38PM

iamwhoiam wrote: »

I have no idea actually . What I do know is that I have an open mind as no evidence of anything is proven . Nothing can be ruled out as no clues or any leads were ever found
My own opinion is that it was an inside job , the group had pre booked a table for 5 nights . The pattern was easy to see and was easy to spot that children were alone . The Mc Canns apartment was vulnerable and closest to the public road . It wouldn't take much to spot an opportunity to snatch a child , into a car and gone into the mountains north of P da L before the next check was even due
But thats only my opinion and certainly wouldn't proclaim it as fact

In my view this is the likeliest scenario.

iamwhoiam · 17-03-2019 04:43PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Calltocall wrote: »

I agree, I’ve thought that before, somebody must have been watching them, their patterns at the evening meals etc how long of a gap they left before checking on the kids otherwise it was seriously risky as the abductor could have walked in when kate and gerry were there, too high risk without knowing they definitely wouldn’t be there so he must have observed them it’s just odd that nobody would have spotted a lone person watching them particularly if he had been watching them for a few nights, such a strange case that in all these years not one solid lead has emerged

Maybe he or she were staff and as such wouldn't be noticed . The front of the house ( side away from the Tapas ) is quite sheltered . Trees shade it and a small car parking area in front of it . Maybe someone had a key or maybe they went in the unlocked patio and took a child and out the front door into a car and gone .
Apart from passerbys of which there wouldn't be many the best view of the front of the apartment is from the balconys of the apartment block behind it
But on a chilly evening in May it is quite possible that no one was sitting out that evening
I could see that it was a perfect storm and there is just no solid lead

SusieBlue · 17-03-2019 04:54PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Wombatman wrote: »

Should have at least used the babysitting service that was available.

What do people make of Kate's body language in the very first press address? Didn't look up once. If I was in appeal mode I'd be looking right at you with my face forward. If I had something to hide I might be looking at my shoes. Maybe it was just the shame of knowing she neglected her daughter by leaving her exposed.

Unless you’ve personally had to hold a press conference to publicly appeal for information about your missing child you are in no position to be making statements about what way you would or wouldn’t behave.
Unless you actually have experience in being in a similar situation (and I truly hope you haven’t) you are just speculating.
There is no handbook to how you should act when something like that happens to you.

FWIW, having just watched the documentary all I see in Kate is a broken woman, struggling to hold it together.
She seems to be on the brink of a total emotional breakdown in every piece of footage I’ve seen of her.

Calltocall · 17-03-2019 04:55PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Trekker09 wrote: »

In my view this is the likeliest scenario.

One thing from the documentary that stood out to me and I personally felt it had credibility was the reports of the guy who was fund raising for the orphanage, there was also a report of a lady running a guy out of her home who was talking to her three year old who had called to her home with the story that he was fund raising for an orphanage in praya de luz not long before Madeliene went missing his likeness was similar to the description given by jane tanner, long dark hair similar build etc, It just fizzles out in the doc without saying how thoroughly it was followed up but apparently there were four reports of someone fundraising for an orphanage on the same day that Madeliene went missing, there were no orphanages in the vicinity of praya de luz

limnam · 17-03-2019 04:59PM

Trekker09 wrote: »

Stop putting words in my mouth. I haven't downplayed it, but like most tragedies it's a combination of various factors, some of which you can control and others that you can't. Most people can't be 100% perfect 100% al of the time, and yes, our judgement can suck at times, but fortunately most of us don't have to deal with the consequences that the McCanns have had to face.

Sure, we can't be perfect all the time as parents. Hardest job in the world.

What we can do 100% of the time. Is not go to a restaurant leaving 3 kids under 4 home alone in an unsecured apartment with public access while we go out wining and dining.

At the very least kids can expect this of their parents no ?

Trekker09 · 17-03-2019 05:01PM

Calltocall wrote: »

One thing from the documentary that stood out to me and I personally felt it had credibility was the reports of the guy who was fund raising for the orphanage, there was also a report of a lady running a guy out of her home who was talking to her three year old who had called to her home with the story that he was fund raising for an orphanage in praya de luz not long before Madeliene went missing his likeness was similar to the description given by jane tanner, long dark hair similar build etc, It just fizzles out in the doc without saying how thoroughly it was followed up but apparently there were four reports of someone fundraising for an orphanage on the same day that Madeliene went missing, there were no orphanages in the vicinity of praya de luz

Yes, that stuck in my mind too. Also, the McCann group made a block booking for the same time every evening. This was recorded by a staff member and the reason given was it was convenient for the group with keeping an eye on the children who were sleeping. This booking log was apparently left on the reception desk for all to see.

Trekker09 · 17-03-2019 05:03PM

limnam wrote: »

Sure, we can't be perfect all the time as parents. Hardest job in the world.

What we can do 100% of the time. Is not go to a restaurant leaving 3 kids under 4 home alone in an unsecured apartment with public access while we go out wining and dining.

At the very least kids can expect this of their parents no ?

Lets just keep judging them on that then, job done!!

Plumbthedepths · 17-03-2019 05:15PM

Trekker09 wrote:

Lets just keep judging them on that then, job done!!

Easy to judge them on that as they left the children alone on several occasions, yet there was a childminder service available including a late evening crÃ¨che.

limnam · 17-03-2019 05:20PM

Trekker09 wrote: »

Lets just keep judging them on that then, job done!!

Better than trying to make moronic excuses for neglectful behavior and brush it under the carpet.

Poor kate and Gerry eh.

Poor bloodie "maddie".

Trekker09 · 17-03-2019 05:24PM

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Easy to judge them on that as they left the children alone on several occasions, yet there was a childminder service available including a late evening crèche.

Hope we can all shine the judgement light on ourselves and come up squeaky clean.

limnam · 17-03-2019 05:26PM

Trekker09 wrote: »

Hope we can all shine the judgement light on ourselves and come up squeaky clean.

We don't need to come up sqeuaky clean

Every parent makes mistakes.

You just have to not leave your kids under 4 home alone while you're out drinking.

Simples.

Trekker09 · 17-03-2019 05:27PM

limnam wrote: »

Better than trying to make moronic excuses for neglectful behavior and brush it under the carpet.

Poor kate and Gerry eh.

Poor bloodie "maddie".

Where have I made 'moronic' excuses? I also doubt it can be brushed under the carpet now can it?

And yes. poor Kate and Gerry, and Maddie plus the twins. My heart goes out to all of them and their current situation and I hope for the best outcome for them.

It's not up to me to judge them for their mistake.

Plumbthedepths · 17-03-2019 05:30PM

Trekker09 wrote:

Hope we can all shine the judgement light on ourselves and come up squeaky clean.

Considering I never left my kids alone whilst on holidays , yeah squeaky clean.

Trekker09 · 17-03-2019 05:30PM

limnam wrote: »

We don't need to come up sqeuaky clean

Every parent makes mistakes.

You just have to not leave your kids under 4 home alone while you're out drinking.

Simples.

As I said, broken record.

You are hell bent on portraying them as going out boozing, they went out for a bite to eat and a few drinks.

splinter65 · 17-03-2019 05:31PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

iamwhoiam wrote: »

Well thats what we all would like to know . But there is no evidence of an abductor and so it is not a fact that there was one

There’s no evidence that there wasn’t an abductor either. Hence, an abductor can’t be discounted. I think an abductor took Maddie. I think he watched from the shadows and he knew that that was probably the last check and he ran up the stairs and took her. What do you think happened?

Plumbthedepths · 17-03-2019 05:31PM

Trekker09 wrote:

You are hell bent on portraying them as going out boozing, they went out for a bite to eat and a few drinks.

....4 evenings in a row . While the children were left on their own.

iamwhoiam · 17-03-2019 05:33PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Trekker09 wrote: »

As I said, broken record.

You are hell bent on portraying them as going out boozing, they went out for a bite to eat and a few drinks.

In fairness even if they went out to read a book by the pool I see no difference . The fact they left three kids alone for their own selfish reason is what matters

splinter65 · 17-03-2019 05:33PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Police,Media detective agency working for the McCanns etc etc. Murat received over 600,000 for liable against him and an apology in court.

None of that is the fault of the McCann family nor was it their responsibility to sort it out.

limnam · 17-03-2019 05:34PM

Trekker09 wrote: »

As I said, broken record.

The broken record giving out about a broken record

Trekker09 wrote: »

You are hell bent on portraying them as going out boozing, they went out for a bite to eat and a few drinks.

I guess if it was just a bite to eat and a few drinks while their kids were left home alone in an unsecured apartment with public access in a foriegn country.

That's ok then.

17-03-2019 05:35PM

Trekker09 wrote: »

As I said, broken record.

You are hell bent on portraying them as going out boozing, they went out for a bite to eat and a few drinks.

As all other parents do when on holidays, do you think that it's normal behaviour to leave babies alone while doing so, that's the difference.People bring the children out with them, it's the norm in all family orientated holiday destinations.

Madeleine McCann

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