Is self loathing to the Irish...

topper75 · 12-03-2019 04:08PM

Sure how could anybody internally or externally loathe a nation where the minister for transport cannot drive, the minister for children cannot and has not had children, and the minister for the Gaeltacht cannot speak any Gaeilge.

I'd never live anywhere else.

Snow Garden · 12-03-2019 04:08PM

Auntie Semite wrote: »

The aversion to Gaelic names by some in the Worst name thread is a good example of Irish self loathing/Cultural cringe.

Ah now, many Irish names are truly awful.

Snow Garden · 12-03-2019 04:10PM

Feisar wrote: »

We were in the past to quick to doff the cap to the church/politician/local big man. I believe this is a throw back to penal times. When the British left others filled the power vacuum.

That still happens today. Most recent example was the Childrens hospital. Outrage at the cost/waste and brutal explanations by Politicians/HSE but at the end of the day we will all take it and pay for it via our hard earned money....and it will happen again and again....

super_furry · 12-03-2019 04:15PM

topper75 wrote: »

Sure how could anybody internally or externally loathe a nation where the minister for transport cannot drive, the minister for children cannot and has not had children, and the minister for the Gaeltacht cannot speak any Gaeilge.

I'd never live anywhere else.

And not forgetting the Minister for Finance without a bank account.

Good craic all the same.

Auntie Semite · 12-03-2019 04:20PM

super_furry wrote: »

"Not to derail the thread, but here, let me derail the thread with some anti-foreigner nonsense."

You're getting boring at this stage.

Anti Foreigner?

I'm saying that many who loath Irish names would have no issue with difficult to pronounce/spell foreign names..as it should be.
I actually like traditional names from any culture including Irish.

Church on Tuesday · 12-03-2019 05:20PM

Auntie Semite wrote: »

The aversion to Gaelic names by some in the Worst name thread is a good example of Irish self loathing/Cultural cringe.

I take your point but in fairness some of those oirish names are pretty dire, quite hurtful sounding to the ears and give off a very elitist vibe

DEFTLEFTHAND · 12-03-2019 05:22PM

The self hating Catholic phenomenon certainly has similarities to the self hating Jew.

12-03-2019 05:25PM

Church on Tuesday wrote: »

I take your point but in fairness some of those oirish names are pretty dire, quite hurtful sounding to the ears and give off a very elitist vibe

For example?

(bearing in mind that there are approximately 12 Gobnaits in the whole country)

Church on Tuesday · 12-03-2019 05:30PM

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

For example?

(bearing in mind that there are approximately 12 Gobnaits in the whole country)

Fiachra, Feardorcha, Caoimhseach, Fachtna (have to picture the wind and rain when you spit that one out) Conchobhar to name a few.

I have to say I really like the simple Seán and such other variants; it can be Irish but not obnoxious for the sake of it.

12-03-2019 05:39PM

Church on Tuesday wrote: »

Fiachra, Feardorcha, Caoimhseach, Fachtna (have to picture the wind and rain when you sit that one out) Conchobhar to name a few.

I have to say I really like the simple Seán and such other variants; it can be Irish but not obnoxious for the sake of it.

Have never met nor heard of a Feardorcha or a Caoimhseach. Don't see the problem with Fiachra or Fachtna, but all you've shown here is that Irish names are no different to names in any other language, in having occasionally awful examples.

I can think of far more beautiful irish names than of bad ones. Sadhbh, Síoda, Tomás, Pádraig, Pádraigín, Fiadh, Saoirse, Oisín, Ruaidhrí...

But maybe I'm biased
- Tadhg

Church on Tuesday · 12-03-2019 05:46PM

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Have never met nor heard of a Feardorcha or a Caoimhseach. Don't see the problem with Fiachra or Fachtna, but all you've shown here is that Irish names are no different to names in any other language, in having occasionally awful examples.

I can think of far more beautiful irish names than of bad ones. Sadhbh, Síoda, Tomás, Pádraig, Pádraigín, Fiadh, Saoirse, Oisín, Ruaidhrí...

But maybe I'm biased
- Tadhg

Nah not at all, those names you've mentioned are grand and fairly common I think.

I've encountered from my list 1, 2, 3 and 5 and yes they were all bellends.

But at the end of the day, different stokes for different folks.

DEFTLEFTHAND · 12-03-2019 05:48PM

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Have never met nor heard of a Feardorcha or a Caoimhseach. Don't see the problem with Fiachra or Fachtna, but all you've shown here is that Irish names are no different to names in any other language, in having occasionally awful examples.

I can think of far more beautiful irish names than of bad ones. Sadhbh, Sa, Tom Paig, Paig Fiadh, Saoirse, Ois Ruaidhr.

But maybe I'm biased
- Tadhg

Believe me when you have an obscure ancient one it's a nightmare. People can't pronounce it, spell it, it's like a millstone around your neck.

I've been using my middle name since early teens. I still cringe when I need to use my first name. I'll eventually erase it through Deed Poll.

Electric Sheep · 12-03-2019 05:48PM

Auntie Semite wrote: »

Did it occur to you that people might actually like Irish names? Or may wish to reconnect with their cultural or ancestral past?

Maybe their motivations are entirely benign rather than them being privileged middle-class idiots who wish to differentiate themselves from other privileged middle-class idiots.

Perhaps some have that motivation. From my experience though it is usually class marking.

12-03-2019 05:50PM

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

Believe me when you have an obscure ancient one it's a nightmare. People can't pronounce it, spell it, it's like a millstone around your neck.

I've been using my middle name since early teens. I still cringe when I need to use my first name. I'll eventually erase it through Deed Poll.

is that in ireland?

I was referred to by my initials when I lived abroad, but it's pretty poor form if (after 13+ years of learning Irish) an Irish person can't manage to pronounce your name.

DEFTLEFTHAND · 12-03-2019 05:58PM

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

is that in ireland?

I was referred to by my initials when I lived abroad, but it's pretty poor form if (after 13+ years of learning Irish) an Irish person can't manage to pronounce your name.

Eventually people can of course but's it's just too much hassle initially. There's probably less than 50 people in the country with this name.

A recent thing I had was a woman ringing up from the Passport Office checking the spelling. :pac: It's just a burden to carry.

My mother wasn't a gaeilgeoir or anything, she gave it to me so she could be different to her other young mother friends (always had notions). I feel like an oul designer pet dog or something.:p

Gimme A Pound · 13-03-2019 02:25PM

Your Face wrote: »

Christ

Cool contribution but that thread "Can the Irish be trusted?" inspired this. Really, would many other nationalities navel-gaze re such nonsense?

The fact that someone actually asked the question in the first place, and predictably, the poll results contain a majority "no" further reinforces my point. Even if just on Boards.

Day in day out, there are constant posts about how sh1t "we" are (they need to **** off with their "we" and speak for themselves), "only in Ireland" and "typical Ireland" about things that happen *everywhere*, and worst of all, downplaying and dismissing even recent atrocities like Bloody Sunday and Ballymurphy in favour of "what about the shinners". And referring to fellow Irish people as fenians and "Paddy" derogatorily.

Now I ask the question because the Jews are considered self loathing (kinda a tongue in cheek saying but with a grain of truth - at least they do self loathing in a hilarious manner) and I'm suggesting there's similar in the psyche of many Irish. And it certainly seems that way.

This is nothing to do with healthy self reflection/criticism (we should all do that) or criticising things that are Irish, very obscure Irish names (awful thing to do to a kid imo) etc - it's something much broader: a general sense of inferiority and referring to the Irish in shockingly bigoted terms, coupled ironically with arrogance (they use "we" but they don't mean themselves, just other Irish people) and cap doffing to their "betters" in England and the unionist community.

sbsquarepants · 13-03-2019 02:54PM

I've never really seen any evidence of national self loathing. It's usually just a lazy insult thrown around by some toss pot who just can't wrap their head around the fact that some people might prefer hip hop to diddly eye or just not give a rats arse that today is the 114th anniversary of big Jim Larkins first ****.

All cultures change and evolve, that's not self loathing it's progress. If they didn't we'd still be dancing around in the nip in the middle of some forest to make sure the harvest was good.
(Sounds alright actually, I'm in if anyone wants to give it a bash:D)

Gimme A Pound · 13-03-2019 02:58PM

You're the one being lazy. It's not about not liking diddly iddly stuff. Much much deeper stuff than that. And take a look at the "Can the Irish be trusted" nonsense thread - by Irish people. What's the bigotry towards their own people about?

sbsquarepants · 13-03-2019 03:02PM

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

I can think of far more beautiful irish names than of bad ones. Sadhbh, Síoda, Tomás, Pádraig, Pádraigín, Fiadh, Saoirse, Oisín, Ruaidhrí...

But maybe I'm biased
- Tadhg

I've never heard that before - male or female?

I'm not a gaeilgeoir or anything, but I generally think Irish names have a nice ring to them - nightmare to spell, but lovely to speak.

Zorya · 13-03-2019 03:04PM

Today is the anniversary of big Jim Larkin's first ****?!?! Cripes! Why did nobody tell me, I've nothing in and my hair is a state! :eek:

EmmetSpiceland · 13-03-2019 03:11PM

No, Irish people aren’t self loathing. We just don’t like to boast too much and don’t take compliments very well.

For the most part we know we’re good fun, have an average enough work ethic and we have a fair amount of national pride.

orourkeda1977 · 13-03-2019 03:19PM

I don't hate myself.

I hate everybody else.

sbsquarepants · 13-03-2019 03:23PM

Zorya wrote: »

Today is the anniversary of big Jim Larkin's first ****?!?! Cripes! Why did nobody tell me, I've nothing in and my hair is a state! :eek:

Sorry for shocking you, I had my dates wrong - it's not till the 15th. Plenty of time to prepare;)

Zorya · 13-03-2019 03:39PM

sbsquarepants wrote: »

Sorry for shocking you, I had my dates wrong - it's not till the 15th. Plenty of time to prepare;)

Phew! You damn near ruined my day...

sbsquarepants · 13-03-2019 03:46PM

I get that exact look off my daughter practically every day!

NSAman · 13-03-2019 03:47PM

Irish people in my experience do not have self loathing, they can see the bad parts of being Irish (stupid politicians, a country that is dysfunctional for the most part) but they can also see the good parts of being Irish (not taking yourself too seriously, enjoying life and Ireland as a place to live).

In general, Irish people see everything that is wrong with life but enjoy everything that is right with life. It is just a shame that when you ask someone how they are, a common response is "fine" or "grand".... at least you don't get the full run down on their health issues and family history as you do here in the States.

Irish people are smart, logical in my experience and don't tend to become involved in drama as much as others (speaking from an American point of view here)...

They are very much proud of their country and (this may be a personal view) hate the Americanized view of it.

13-03-2019 06:13PM

sbsquarepants wrote: »

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote:

I can think of far more beautiful irish names than of bad ones. Sadhbh, Síoda, Tomás, Pádraig, Pádraigín, Fiadh, Saoirse, Oisín, Ruaidhrí...

But maybe I'm biased
- Tadhg

I've never heard that before - male or female?

Sioda? Female name (Shee-eda)

It means 'Silk/ Silken' Hadn't come across it myself until recently.

14-03-2019 10:53AM

Best bit of parody ever, and possibly explains the origins of the two diametrically opposite ways we have of looking at things.

n Béal Bocht is set in Corca Dhorcha, (Corkadoragha, Corkadorkey), a remote region of Ireland where it never stops raining and everyone lives in desperate poverty (and always will) while talking in "the learned smooth Gaelic". It is a memoir of one Bónapárt Ó Cúnasa (Bonaparte O'Coonassa), a resident of this region, beginning at his very birth. At one point the area is visited by hordes of Dublin Gaeilgeoirí (Irish language lovers), who explain that not only should one always speak Irish, but also every sentence one utters should be about the language question. However, they eventually abandon the area because the poverty is too poor, the authenticity too authentic and the Gaelicism too Gaelic. The narrator, after a series of bloodcurdling adventures, is eventually sent to prison on a false murder charge, and there, "safe in jail and free from the miseries of life",[5] has the chance to write this most affecting memoir of our times. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/An_B%C3%A9al_Bocht

branie2 · 14-03-2019 10:59AM

Oy vay!

Is self loathing to the Irish...

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