Number26/N26 Mastercard/Account now for Irish Residents

TheChizler · 04-03-2019 11:25AM

Bob24 wrote: »

That’s questionable.

If like the OP argued someone saying that when IBAN discrimination occurres the blame/pressure should be put on the bank of the individual rather that the organisation which is refusing foreign IBANs, then the direct consequence is that if a Portuguese institution is refusing my BOI IBAN I shoud blame BOI and expect a solution from them rather than blaming the Portuguese institution.

And if you are arguing that the choice should be up to each bank whether to do issue foreign IBANs or not depending on whether they want to access new markets, then you are advocating for breaking the fair competition rules laid out by SEPA regulation. What I mean by that is that if you are acknowledging that banks offering IBANs out of their own countries is an OK but not mandatory solution for IBAN discrimination, you are accepting the fact competing accross the EZ market requires optional and potentially costly hacks for banks which want to offer perfect interoperability. And since some banks and countries might be to small for that to happen you are effectively hindering competition and putting smaller banks and consumers in smaller markets at a disadvantage.

Not at all. SEPA rules should be enforced, but being realistic they aren't always and it can be a bit of a battle at times to get institutions to accept foreign IBANs. If a bank wants to offer a local IBAN when they operate out of a different company as a convenience to their customers then why shouldn't they be allowed to? Some do already. Didn't say it was the right thing to do in an ideal world, but you have to be realistic.

Bob24 · 04-03-2019 11:53AM

TheChizler wrote: »

Not at all. SEPA rules should be enforced, but being realistic they aren't always and it can be a bit of a battle at times to get institutions to accept foreign IBANs. If a bank wants to offer a local IBAN when they operate out of a different company as a convenience to their customers then why shouldn't they be allowed to? Some do already. Didn't say it was the right thing to do in an ideal world, but you have to be realistic.

To answer the question I highlighted in your post, I haven’t said banks shouldn’t be allowed to offer multiple IBANs from different counties.

What i am saying is they it shouldn’t be accepted as a solution to bypass the lack of enforcement for SEPA regulation (see the last paragraph of my post you quoted, which I just edited a bit to clarify it).

If you are accepting this as an optional requirement for banks to fully compete accross the single EZ market you are accepting to hinder competition which goes completely against the regulation. Free competition should mean that I can select any bank accross the single EZ market and use it in Ireland as I please without any additional burden for myself or for the bank I have selected (as long as that bank is SEPA compliant). If you accept that a burden for the bank might exist to provide an Irish IBAN to me, you are completely hindering fair competition. Because all of a sudden you are breaking-up the single market and disadvantaging me for living in a small country like Ireland whereby local banks aren’t very competitive and the local market is a bit small for foreign banks to bother with providing Irish IBANs. And you are also telling the Malta based bank I selected that while they are fully compliant with a regulation which is supposed to give them full unrestricted access to Irish customers, the situation in practice is that only banks which have the means to issue Irish IBAN really have access to those customers.

Sheep Shagger · 04-03-2019 11:56AM

Opened a N26 account a month or so back, primarily for Google pay (phone only not watch at the moment),

Transfers from main BOI account only take a day, seriously considering closing my BOI account and getting salary paid direct to N26.

Very rarely use an ATM these days as everything is contactless or at point of sale using chip and pin (or credit card). On the offchsnce someone writes me a cheque I can lodge to my BOI credit card my lodgenebt machine- fee free.

Going to test how long it takes to send money the other way, from N26 to my BOI Mastercard

blade1 · 04-03-2019 12:14PM

Lucas Hood wrote: »

I'd say you will have it this morning.

camz09 wrote: »

Woop, just got it there. Thanks!

I don't think Lucas was personally responsible for it arriving! :pac:

5star02707 · 04-03-2019 12:15PM

Sheep Shagger wrote: »

Opened a N26 account a month or so back, primarily for Google pay (phone only not watch at the moment),

Transfers from main BOI account only take a day, seriously considering closing my BOI account and getting salary paid direct to N26.

Very rarely use an ATM these days as everything is contactless or at point of sale using chip and pin (or credit card). On the offchsnce someone writes me a cheque I can lodge to my BOI credit card my lodgenebt machine- fee free.

Going to test how long it takes to send money the other way, from N26 to my BOI Mastercard

usually takes 1 business day as well

could be same day if done before lunch

metricspaces · 04-03-2019 12:17PM

I currently use Revolut and it lets me hold different currencies in the one account. Can you do the same with N26?

I have bought Sterling with Revolut and it currently sits on my Revolut app. I would like to transfer this Sterling to N26 and hold it in Sterling (not Euro!) on N26. Is this possible?

Bob24 · 04-03-2019 12:19PM

metricspaces wrote: »

I currently use Revolut and it lets me hold different currencies in the one account. Can you do the same with N26?

I have bought Sterling with Revolut and it currently sits on my Revolut app. I would like to transfer this Sterling to N26 and hold it in Sterling (not Euro!) on N26. Is this possible?

If you are an Irish resident N26 will only provide an account in euros.

Wheety · 04-03-2019 12:24PM

metricspaces wrote: »

I currently use Revolut and it lets me hold different currencies in the one account. Can you do the same with N26?

I have bought Sterling with Revolut and it currently sits on my Revolut app. I would like to transfer this Sterling to N26 and hold it in Sterling (not Euro!) on N26. Is this possible?

Why not have both? N26 is a proper current account and Revolut has more functionality when it comes to other currencies.

TheChizler · 04-03-2019 12:55PM

Bob24 wrote: »

If you are accepting this as an optional requirement for banks to fully compete accross the single EZ market you are accepting to hinder competition which goes completely against the regulation. Free competition should mean that I can select any bank accross the single EZ market and use it in Ireland as I please without any additional burden for myself or for the bank I have selected (as long as that bank is SEPA compliant). If you accept that a burden for the bank might exist to provide an Irish IBAN to me, you are completely hindering fair competition. Because all of a sudden you are breaking-up the single market and disadvantaging me for living in a small country like Ireland whereby local banks aren’t very competitive and the local market is a bit small for foreign banks to bother with providing Irish IBANs. And you are also telling the Malta based bank I selected that while they are fully compliant with a regulation which is supposed to give them full unrestricted access to Irish customers, the situation in practice is that only banks which have the means to issue Irish IBAN really have access to those customers.

Maybe I'm not seeing your point, but I don't think it's accepting hindering competition by being ok with a bank offering a feature which can add convenience for it's customers. It's possible to be ok with that while at the same time saying the ECB or whoever should be doing everything possible to encourage fair competition by enforcing the existing rules and ensuring that every company must accept foreign IBANs.

metricspaces · 04-03-2019 03:28PM

Wheety wrote: »

Why not have both? N26 is a proper current account and Revolut has more functionality when it comes to other currencies.

Absolutely have both, however that wasn't my question. I wanted to know if as an Irish resident opening an N26 account could I store Sterling in my N26 account. It seems this is not possible according to previous poster as N26 will only give me a Euro account.

5star02707 · 04-03-2019 03:49PM

metricspaces wrote: »

Absolutely have both, however that wasn't my question. I wanted to know if as an Irish resident opening an N26 account could I store Sterling in my N26 account. It seems this is not possible according to previous poster as N26 will only give me a Euro account.

Not Possible only has Euro account for irish residents.

Yggr of Asgard · 04-03-2019 06:19PM

TheChizler wrote: »

Maybe I'm not seeing your point, but I don't think it's accepting hindering competition by being ok with a bank offering a feature which can add convenience for it's customers. It's possible to be ok with that while at the same time saying the ECB or whoever should be doing everything possible to encourage fair competition by enforcing the existing rules and ensuring that every company must accept foreign IBANs.

How is me having to manage multiple IBAN numbers for the same currency across the suposed Sepa region a convenience?

The rules were introduced to allow us to bank in any country without restrictions so that we can choose the provider we want and to facilitate free movement.

Just because Irish banks and business are years behind in technology should not put additional burden on me.

Other countries have extensive enforcement for IBAN discrimination with financial penalties, Ireland has the good old "let someone else fix it".

Yggr of Asgard · 04-03-2019 06:26PM

TheChizler wrote: »

Not advocating the ghost IBANs thing as I'm all for everyone playing by the SEPA rules, but you're not making a fair comparison there. N26 market themselves and offer their services to consumers outside of Germany, to the best of my knowledge no Irish bank does similar. It might make business sense for a bank marketing themselves to customers outside their own country to provide IBANs that look local to those customers.

Irish banks don't market themselves outside Ireland because they would not stand a chance.

The exception was KBC who before Apple and Android pay became available in Germany was attracting a lot of basic account openings from there. Sure that was not intended but it worked.

And I do not understand why a bank that wants to offer services across the common market should be penalized for it. If they offer their products here than they should not be penalized with additional burden and no enforcement of the same rules.

But the Irish goverment which after all owns large shares in the major banks had no interest in doing their enforcement for obvious reasons.

TheChizler · 04-03-2019 07:22PM

Yggr of Asgard wrote: »

How is me having to manage multiple IBAN numbers for the same currency across the suposed Sepa region a convenience?

The rules were introduced to allow us to bank in any country without restrictions so that we can choose the provider we want and to facilitate free movement.

Just because Irish banks and business are years behind in technology should not put additional burden on me.

Other countries have extensive enforcement for IBAN discrimination with financial penalties, Ireland has the good old "let someone else fix it".

The convenience is providing an IE IBAN so you don't have to go messing around fighting companies to accept your DE one. I don't know why you'd have multiple IBANs in this fictional situation, maybe you just use the IE one and ignore the DE?

Like it or not it can be an effort to get companies to accept foreign IBANs, if a bank wants to offer something to their customers so it's never an issue for them then that's their prerogative. Instead of waiting around for the Government to make it an ideal world. Someone already said some card provider offers a ghost IBAN for this exact purpose.

Anyway I'm not advocating anything here, I only got involved cause someone suggested something like, N26 shouldn't provide ghost IBANs cause it would be unreasonable to expect BoI to provide a ghost IBAN for every county in SEPA. Which I pointed out didn't make sense.

TheChizler · 04-03-2019 07:25PM

Yggr of Asgard wrote: »

And I do not understand why a bank that wants to offer services across the common market should be penalized for it. If they offer their products here than they should not be penalized with additional burden and no enforcement of the same rules.

Who's said a bank should be penalised for offering services? I certainly didn't. If they want to make their product easier to use then by all means let them!

Yggr of Asgard · 04-03-2019 10:45PM

TheChizler wrote: »

Who's said a bank should be penalised for offering services? I certainly didn't. If they want to make their product easier to use then by all means let them!

But you are ignoring the fact that there is no reason for them to offer any additional IBAN numbers (which cost money for them, which require additional technology etc.).

SEPA is supposed to take away the burden for both customer and banks to allow competition across the region.

There is no need for them "to make it easier" because it's easy, one IBAN independent of which letters it starts with is good enough.

This feature of the market was introduced in 2014, so 5 years later this no need for excuses anymore for someone not being able to use a non Irish IBAN.

Requiring additional IBAN's just because of some backwater companies/bank is an additional burden on other banks.

Bob24 · 04-03-2019 11:51PM

TheChizler wrote: »

Who's said a bank should be penalised for offering services? I certainly didn't. If they want to make their product easier to use then by all means let them!

You said it would be acceptable to expect a bank to offer local IBANs for every European country they want to market their service in. I believe what Yggr of Asgard meant is that such expectation is penalising banks as it is incurring extra cost for them whereas the regulation says it shouldn’t be the case.

TheChizler · 05-03-2019 12:24AM

Bob24 wrote: »

You said it would be acceptable to expect a bank to offer local IBANs for every European country they want to market their service in. I believe what Yggr of Asgard meant is that such expectation is penalising banks as it is incurring extra cost for them whereas the regulation says it shouldn’t be the case.

Don't think I said anyone should expect it, if it makes business sense for N26 to offer it as a feature then go for it.

TheChizler · 05-03-2019 12:33AM

Yggr of Asgard wrote: »

But you are ignoring the fact that there is no reason for them to offer any additional IBAN numbers (which cost money for them, which require additional technology etc.).

SEPA is supposed to take away the burden for both customer and banks to allow competition across the region.

There is no need for them "to make it easier" because it's easy, one IBAN independent of which letters it starts with is good enough.

This feature of the market was introduced in 2014, so 5 years later this no need for excuses anymore for someone not being able to use a non Irish IBAN.

Requiring additional IBAN's just because of some backwater companies/bank is an additional burden on other banks.

I've had trouble getting companies to accept my N26 IBAN twice in the last few weeks. It shouldn't be an issue but that's the reality. There are no excuses but that doesn't stop companies trying to make them. N26 have a section on their website dedicated to telling people how to complain to companies so they'll accept it - it is a real issue.

Again I'm not suggesting it should be a requirement for foreign banks to offer local IBANs, or even that I'd like it, I've had to repeat this way to many times... Just I can see how it could be a useful feature.

I can't even remember how this line of conversation got started...

kenmc · 05-03-2019 12:45AM

Is there an easy way to switch from e.g ptsb to n26 as a main bank account, and move dds, s/os etc automatically? I see some info on the German support pages about it, and some online service to do so but nothing in the English pages.

Wheety · 05-03-2019 01:36AM

I think you're better off doing it yourself.

Dardania · 05-03-2019 08:44AM

kenmc wrote: »

Is there an easy way to switch from e.g ptsb to n26 as a main bank account, and move dds, s/os etc automatically? I see some info on the German support pages about it, and some online service to do so but nothing in the English pages.

No, but bear in mind in the PTSB website there’s a list of the current DDs you have - handy as a check point.

user1842 · 05-03-2019 09:06AM

TheChizler wrote: »

I've had trouble getting companies to accept my N26 IBAN twice in the last few weeks. It shouldn't be an issue but that's the reality. There are no excuses but that doesn't stop companies trying to make them. N26 have a section on their website dedicated to telling people how to complain to companies so they'll accept it - it is a real issue.

Again I'm not suggesting it should be a requirement for foreign banks to offer local IBANs, or even that I'd like it, I've had to repeat this way to many times... Just I can see how it could be a useful feature.

I can't even remember how this line of conversation got started...

N26 cannot issue IE IBANs and it has nothing to do with SEPA. The ISO 13616 IBAN standard is very clear:

“the first two letters of the IBAN shall always be the two-character country code of the country in which the financial institution servicing the account resides”

This is taken to mean that the financial institution needs to establish a branch/legal residence in a country before it can issue domestic IBANs. Passporting of services is not enough.

If a financial institution was allowed to issue any IBAN then the country code in the IBAN would become meaningless.

Ideally an EU IBAN should have been introduced 15 years ago but it was not and there are no plans to do it now. Some countries are very attached to the country code in their IBAN.

TheChizler · 05-03-2019 09:11AM

This whole thing was based on someone mentioning a ghost IBAN that some card provider issues, I don't know how that worked. This entire conversation may well be entirely theoretical.

Bob24 · 05-03-2019 09:11AM

Dardania wrote: »

No, but bear in mind in the PTSB website there’s a list of the current DDs you have - handy as a check point.

True, makes it easy to know who you need to contact at a glance.

And btw it is a feature N26 is missing. I don’t understand why they are not adding it to their app/website.

Bob24 · 05-03-2019 09:28AM

TheChizler wrote: »

This whole thing was based on someone mentioning a ghost IBAN that some card provider issues, I don't know how that worked. This entire conversation may well be entirely theoretical.

What was mentioned is transferwise and I believe the poster was specifically referring to this products: https://transferwise.com/ie/borderless/

As far as I know they will give you account details in Australia, New Zealand, the UK, the US and what they call a European IBAN (a German IBAN). Presumably countries where their financial partners have actual presence.

So as far as I know it is *not* an exemple of a bank giving local European IBANs to its customer based on where they live. It is an online payment service giving people a German IBAN to so that they can receive Euro payments. No support for direct debits either - so *not* an exemple of the potential use case you were referring to in terms of having a local IBAN for suppliers who practice IBAN discrimination to set up DDs.

As said by user1842 if N26 wanted to issue N26 IBANs for every EU country they are marketing their service to, they would need legal presence and some physical operations in each of those countries which makes zero sense in terms of their business plan and cost structure, especially for a small market like Ireland.

Also important to note is that the services you and vectorvictor are referring to are not actual banks like N26 is. They are electronic money companies offering services usually subcontracted to external suppliers and integrated into a nice App or website. So more often than not (if not always) they don’t offer all standard banking services and the IBAN they issue to you is not one of their own as N26 does, but one supplied by one of their partners. So comparing the like of Revolut or Transferwise to N26 is apples and oranges (once Revolut starts offering banking services under its banking licence it will be comparable, but then you will see them only providing Revolut IBANs for those accounts in the country which granted their banking licence - i.e. Lithuanian IBANs).

RHJ · 05-03-2019 10:11PM

This whole mess of Companies not accepting a foreign banking IBANs was the EU's fault when they introduced the new SEPA they should have added measures to fine companies that breached the rules if companies had to face stiff penalties for breaking the rules then we wouldn't be having this discussion.

Yggr of Asgard · 05-03-2019 11:11PM

RHJ wrote: »

This whole mess of Companies not accepting a foreign banking IBANs was the EU's fault when they introduced the new SEPA they should have added measures to fine companies that breached the rules if companies had to face stiff penalties for breaking the rules then we wouldn't be having this discussion.

Well we are still the EU and not the United States of Europe, but enforcement is down to the countries and their local ways.

Do IBAN discrimination in Germany and you find yourself in court with a heavy fine.

In Ireland nothing happens unless someone really makes a lot of waves and than once the EU commission starts a n investigation into the government than things work. It just takes someone to invest time.

Bob24 · 05-03-2019 11:27PM

Yggr of Asgard wrote: »

Well we are still the EU and not the United States of Europe, but enforcement is down to the countries and their local ways.

Agree with that.

One thing I don’t understand though it why the regulation didn’t force countries to turn off legacy national sort codes and account number transfers once SEPA became mandatory for everyone. It wouldn’t have forced any organisation to accept foreign IBANs, but at least it would have forced them to deploy SEPA compliant payment systems which would have removed one key reason why foreign IBANs get refused (and for exemple the NTA in Ireland couldn’t have been years behind to transition from the old Irish DD system to SEPA direct debits as not transitioning on time would have cut them off all their Irish customers).

Suckit · 06-03-2019 12:05AM

Not really applicable to those of us in Ireland, but if anyone reading this thread is living in any of the countries the Glovo operates in, it might be good for them.
€50 credit on Glovo for opening an N26 account. Sign into the Glovo app and use N26 as your default payment method.

https://n26.com/en-eu/glovo-n26

https://glovoapp.com/

Number26/N26 Mastercard/Account now for Irish Residents

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