Irish Coast Guard Helicopters not licensed to land on helipads ?

ibebanging · 02-03-2019 7:40pm #1

How can this be ? Are these type of helicopters not used on oil rigs and helipads all over the world ?

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/coast-guard-cant-land-its-helicopters-on-national-childrens-hospital-roof-37870682.html

NIMAN · 02-03-2019 7:45pm

Wrt the children's hospital debacle, I remember one of the points raised was that the big rescue helicopters (sea king?) were too large for a roof based helipads, too heavy.

Pads have to have special reinforcing done to accept these helicopters,unless they are on solid ground rather than a roof.

So I'd say they aren't authorised to land on roof based helipads.

Odyssey 2005 · 02-03-2019 7:49pm

Another Simon Harris fuk up

the_syco · 02-03-2019 7:53pm

ibebanging wrote: »

How can this be ? Are these type of helicopters not used on oil rigs and helipads all over the world ?

It's 7 tonne empty, 12 tonne when full. Seems the helipads were built to suport one sort of helicopter, but not the coasties chopper.

I'm thinking someone went looking for dirt to throw at the design, tbh.

gctest50 · 02-03-2019 7:54pm

Odyssey 2005 wrote: »

Another Simon Harris fuk up

It's not a great idea anyway landing a large helicopter on the roof.

If they get it wrong and crash into the building many patients might die

kub · 02-03-2019 7:57pm

Odyssey 2005 wrote: »

Another Simon Harris fuk up

I never knew he worked for CHC Ireland.

dhaughton99 · 02-03-2019 8:01pm

Can’t see many buildings be allowed to land such a big chopper on their roof anywhere in the world.

IngazZagni · 02-03-2019 8:16pm

This was known for years. Children can be transported with other smaller helicopters if needs be. Emergencies and they will be treated in regular hospitals initially.

davetherave · 02-03-2019 8:34pm

Odyssey 2005 wrote: »

Another Simon Harris fuk up

Nothing to do with Simon Harris to be fair.

The aircraft operated by the ICG does not have a profile that would allow it to operate Performance Class 1 to an elevated heliport. The Brits have the same problem

https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/539673/helicopter-too-big-hospital-helipads-department-transport

Standards for helicopter landing areas at hospitals

elperello · 02-03-2019 8:44pm

The fact remains that if the children's hospital had been built on a less restricted site it could have been designed to be accessible to all helicopters.

[Deleted User] · 02-03-2019 8:55pm

elperello wrote: »

The fact remains that if the children's hospital had been built on a less restricted site it could have been designed to be accessible to all helicopters.

Very very true. But you have now got a massive staffing issue because a very large percentage of vital staff live near the current hospitals site if you move it to a greenfield site. Nothing is ever simple.

billy few mates · 02-03-2019 8:59pm

elperello wrote: »

The fact remains that if the children's hospital had been built on a less restricted site it could have been designed to be accessible to all helicopters.

Just because they can't land on the roof doesn't make it inaccessible to helicopters. It's far cheaper and safer to have the helipad on the ground anyway...

Odyssey 2005 · 02-03-2019 9:00pm

davetherave wrote: »

Nothing to do with Simon Harris to be fair.

The aircraft operated by the ICG does not have a profile that would allow it to operate Performance Class 1 to an elevated heliport. The Brits have the same problem

https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/539673/helicopter-too-big-hospital-helipads-department-transport

Standards for helicopter landing areas at hospitals

I'm not dissing CHC. Totally agree that the s92 can't land on a roof...no problem there. The problem I have is this is a brand new probably €2bn hospital and only one (1) out of a possible five emergency casualty helicopters can land on site. Absolute bonkers...

elperello · 02-03-2019 10:12pm

billy few mates wrote: »

Just because they can't land on the roof doesn't make it inaccessible to helicopters. It's far cheaper and safer to have the helipad on the ground anyway...

The current plan is to land at Royal Hospital Kilmainham and transfer by ambulance.
Given traffic etc. this is a suboptimal solution.

mickdw · 02-03-2019 10:21pm

The coastguard choppers only appear to be allowed land at designated areas whereas the army ones that also do medical emergency lifts seem to be allowed to land anywhere.
Here where I live, we have the situation where casualty has to be taken by ambulance for up to half hour to coastguard refueling depot to then be taken by helicopter to hospital. It's a delay that could be difference between life and death. Army on the other hand will land in field outside house. In this remote location where there could be a long wait for an ambulance, this lack of ability to land local to casualty means the entire benefit of the helicopter is being lost - in many cases helicopter arrives after 30 mins and can sit for 1 hour awaiting ambulance.

Phileas Frog · 02-03-2019 11:20pm

Would you prefer that the SAR helicopters be able to rescue someone from 250 miles offshore, which is part of their primary role, or land on the roof of a hospital?

notharrypotter · 02-03-2019 11:32pm

mickdw wrote: »

The coastguard choppers only appear to be allowed land at designated areas whereas the army ones that also do medical emergency lifts seem to be allowed to land anywhere.

Incorrect the Aer Corp Helicopters will only land at certain sites which they are sure are free from obstacles (GAA grounds typically).

gctest50 · 02-03-2019 11:43pm

notharrypotter wrote: »

Incorrect the Aer Corp Helicopters will only land at certain sites which they are sure are free from obstacles (GAA grounds typically).

The Aer Corp guide dogs are getting on in years and can't always alert the half-blind pilots to the presence of ESB poles

others do it without taking out the lamp post or the dormer window

Psychlops · 03-03-2019 12:28am

Both the Irish Coast Guard & Irish Air Corps EAS do land at surveyed approved "sites" but they (IAC/IRCG) also land in confined areas/Farmyards/Construction sites wherever for HEMS/EAS taskings as IRCG & IAC both do HEMS & have been tasked to the same incident many a time.
This is seen on any one of their Facebook pages where 112/115/116/117/118 have landed on tight country roadways no hassle at all.

With regards to the UK pads, the problem there was that they were built as far as I know to accommodate up to the Seaking as that was in service with the RAF & RN, but when the Military stopped SAR then the UK HMCG acquired the S92 & the pads simply can not take the weight of an S92.

https://www.facebook.com/SAR115/photos/a.1646347948948735/1854371571479704/?type=3&theatre

https://www.facebook.com/Rescue118/photos/a.124619274302213/1890747487689374/?type=3&theatre

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10153636083563867&set=pb.717783866.-2207520000.1551569813.&type=3&theater

LeChienMefiant · 03-03-2019 2:07pm

Does any existing hospital have a dedicated helipad that can accommodate the S92? This seems like the typical fake news negative PR that is so popular at the moment.

mickdw · 03-03-2019 2:49pm

notharrypotter wrote: »

mickdw wrote: »

The coastguard choppers only appear to be allowed land at designated areas whereas the army ones that also do medical emergency lifts seem to be allowed to land anywhere.

Incorrect the Aer Corp Helicopters will only land at certain sites which they are sure are free from obstacles (GAA grounds typically).

Ok well freedom to land at gaa sites means about 10 local landing sites as opposed to 1 or 2 for coast guard.

Odyssey 2005 · 03-03-2019 2:55pm

LeChienMefiant wrote: »

Does any existing hospital have a dedicated helipad that can accommodate the S92? This seems like the typical fake news negative PR that is so popular at the moment.

Don't really understand your 2nd point, but as far as I know kerry and Galway hospital are the only hospitals with pads on site that can accommodate the S92.

LeChienMefiant · 03-03-2019 3:00pm

Odyssey 2005 wrote: »

Don't really understand your 2nd point, but as far as I know kerry and Galway hospital are the only hospitals with pads on site that can accommodate the S92.

There is a PR campaign against the children's hospital being located where it is.

ED E · 03-03-2019 3:16pm

dhaughton99 wrote: »

Can’t see many buildings be allowed to land such a big chopper on their roof anywhere in the world.

Rooftop landings are not uncommon in the UK. Our guys do it too (AC not CHC in this case)
https://twitter.com/IrishAirCorps/status/1092494208013877248

The AW is lighter but not THAT much lighter. And the crash landing risk would be similar.

elperello wrote: »

The fact remains that if the children's hospital had been built on a less restricted site it could have been designed to be accessible to all helicopters.

The question is why aren't others?

Yes the rehab hosp has a pad thats serviceable, UHG does too. Beaumont? Land in a f#cking park. CUH? The same (they're trying to fix that now). We're sending out S92s 200km into the sea to recover badly injured persons only to do the last mile transfer by ambo wasting time.

IMO, as a non pilot looking on, we should have:
A. Got less SAR and more EAS when the CHC contract was last renewed. 24hr cover from Baldonnel would serve the nation better than massive standby SAR cover for ocean work. Maybe one helimed for small spaces like Motorway collisions, EC145 or similar. Get neural trauma calls quickly from the north/west/south to Dublin
B. During the period of that contract make pads serviceable at all trauma hospitals in the country.

Adult and Mixed Emergency Departments
Mater Misericordiae University Hospital
St. James’s Hospital
St. Vincent’s University Hospital
Tallaght Hospital - Adults
Beaumont Hospital
Connolly Hospital
Naas General Hospital
Cork University Hospital
University Hospital Galway
Our Lady of Lourdes Hospital, Drogheda
University Hospital Limerick
University Hospital Waterford
Sligo University Hospital
Midland Regional Hospital Tullamore
Our Lady’s Hospital, Navan
Cavan General Hospital
University Hospital Kerry
Wexford General Hospital
Letterkenny University Hospital
Mayo University Hospital
Midland Regional Hospital Mullingar
St Luke’s Hospital Kilkenny
Portiuncula University Hospital Ballinasloe
Midland Regional Hospital Portlaoise
Mercy University Hospital Cork
South Tipperary General Hospital

Paediatric Only Emergency Departments
Children’s University Hospital Temple St.
Our Lady’s Children’s Hospital, Crumlin
Tallaght Hospital - Children

A few of these are screwed by location (Temple street, Mater) but with some enthusiasm and effort ground pads instead of a few car parking spaces is a no brainer. CPO the space if you need to. Golden Hour etc.

faoiarvok · 03-03-2019 3:34pm

ED E wrote: »

The AW is lighter but not THAT much lighter. And the crash landing risk would be similar.

The AW139's max take off weight is ~5.5 tonnes less than (or 55% that of) the S-92

faoiarvok · 03-03-2019 3:39pm

gctest50 wrote: »

The Aer Corp guide dogs are getting on in years and can't always alert the half-blind pilots to the presence of ESB poles

others do it without taking out the lamp post or the dormer window

ADAC helicopters aren't immune to hitting wires, cars or skatepark rails. Are their pilots "half-blind" in your estimation too?

ED E · 03-03-2019 3:44pm

faoiarvok wrote: »

The AW139's max take off weight is ~5.5 tonnes less than (or 55% that of) the S-92

'tinternet says 6.4 metric but I somehow had a higher number in my head.

faoiarvok · 03-03-2019 3:45pm

ED E wrote: »

'tinternet says 6.4 metric but I somehow had a higher number in my head.

I was being generous by going with the 7 tonne MTOW variant of the AW139, versus the S-92's 12,568kg MTOW

ED E · 03-03-2019 3:54pm

RE The Mater

DCC Planning 3212/16
And
http://www.dublincity.ie/AnitePublicDocs/00587643.pdf

Are an interesting read. DCC granted them perms to build a ground pad until they can build a new wing with the supports for a helipad included.

As above, pads > carparks.

Markcheese · 03-03-2019 5:50pm

So basically, the coast gaurd helicopter can't land on any hospital rooftop, so will always need some distance of ambulance ride...

Odyssey 2005 · 03-03-2019 7:34pm

They had a helipad on site in St. Luke's in Kilkenny. They got rid of it and put a tree in its place

Irish Coast Guard Helicopters not licensed to land on helipads ?

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