World League thread

MJohnston · 28-02-2019 01:56PM

Would this not essentially kill off the Rugby World Cup? Not in terms of scheduling as it seems like they're just taking the year off when that's on, but it just seems like it would completely destroy any specialness that the RWC might have. NH-SH games would just become a rote regularity, rather than something infrequent and unique.

The lockout of the lower tier teams (apart from the rich ones) is a disgrace, and would probably backfire big time in the long run, but Pichot and those lot don't seem to be particularly forward thinking. The blazing irony of Pichot having said this in the past:

"We want to be a global organisation, not an Anglo-Saxon old organisation"

thebaz · 28-02-2019 02:04PM

troyzer wrote: »

Relegation would have to be at the Six Nations/Rugby Championship level. There is absolutely no way it could ever work.

Can you imagine Scotland getting relegated to the championship? It's utterly unworkable and it would be impossible to make any financial plans.

So the likes of Georgia and Fiji should be shut out , and let rugby fade in these countrys without giving them some goal/hope - Sport is about winning and losing , if losing has no consequences , it will eventually becoming boring - whats wrong with at least a playoff for the team coming last ??

And have a division 2 league underneath for emerging nations

lawred2 · 28-02-2019 02:06PM

thebaz wrote: »

So the likes of Georgia and Fiji should be shut out , and let rugby fade in these countrys without giving them some goal/hope - Sport is about winning and losing , if losing has no consequences , it will eventually becoming boring - whats wrong with at least a playoff for the team coming last ??

And have a division 2 league underneath for emerging nations

I don't think the 5/6 nations has ever been boring because of the absence of relegation..

troyzer · 28-02-2019 02:08PM

lawred2 wrote: »

I don't think the 5/6 nations has ever been boring because of the absence of relegation..

It's not about being boring. It's about financial ruin.

The key to growing the game is to play more games against Tier 2 nations to the point where they're good enough to join these competitions on their own merit and add value. But it can't come at the expense of a tier 1 country. There aren't really that many of them as it is.

crisco10 · 28-02-2019 02:20PM

Maybe posted already but World Rugby have kicked back..

https://www.world.rugby/news/401100

World Rugby recognises and values the importance of player considerations and input into the annual international competition discussions. However, the manner the International Rugby Players (IRP) organisation has expressed these is surprising given regular engagement throughout this ongoing process. World Rugby’s commitment to player welfare matters is unwavering and we will continue to engage and give full consideration to the welfare of players within the ongoing discussions.

It is inappropriate to comment on specifics whilst wider stakeholder consultation, including with IRP, is ongoing. However, it is important to note that some assumptions made in the statement regarding the proposed competition structure are inaccurate and that important matters such as playing load and emerging nation opportunities are at the heart of constructive dialogue on the overall concept.

Consumer research confirms a structured annual competition would make fans and new audiences more likely to watch, attend and engage with international rugby, exposing the sport to new fans worldwide. There is also no doubt that a structured annual international competition would deliver significantly greater long-term global media revenue for reinvestment in the global game. This project has at its heart long-term growth and stability, not short-term wins, and that includes greater opportunity for players.

As instructed by our Executive Committee and the Unions, we remain committed to a process of constructive dialogue with all stakeholders, including the IRP, to deliver a model that ensures the best-possible competition and commercial outcomes for all and a truly exciting and meaningful annual international competition structure that is great for players, clubs, fans and unions.

sydthebeat · 28-02-2019 02:33PM

crisco10 wrote: »

Maybe posted already but World Rugby have kicked back..

https://www.world.rugby/news/401100

world rugby are making the age old mistake of reacting to a problem instead of getting ahead of it.

instead of saying

"assumptions made in the statement regarding the proposed competition structure are inaccurate and that important matters such as playing load and emerging nation opportunities are at the heart of constructive dialogue on the overall concept"

just come out straight with what the concept is....... and what dialogue has to happen to make it work.

irishbucsfan · 28-02-2019 02:35PM

If only there were structured annual competitions in international rugby!

Squidgy Black · 28-02-2019 02:35PM

sydthebeat wrote: »

world rugby are making the age old mistake of reacting to a problem instead of getting ahead of it.

instead of saying just come out straight with what the concept is....... and what dialogue has to happen to make it work.

It's almost like they're a boards poster during the international windows, they just react instantly and don't bother to clarify what they're talking about.

awec · 28-02-2019 02:39PM

They'll solve the playing load problem by putting the onus on clubs to play less games.

I am not totally against this, the problem is I don't see how it can work without radical change, and I doubt there is much appetite for radical change. What I fear will happen is we'll simply see test players barely play for their club. The situation today is pretty terrible, this is just going to make it worse.

troyzer · 28-02-2019 02:42PM

awec wrote: »

They'll solve the playing load problem by putting the onus on clubs to play less games.

I am not totally against this, the problem is I don't see how it can work without radical change, and I doubt there is much appetite for radical change. What I fear will happen is we'll simply see test players barely play for their club. The situation today is pretty terrible, this is just going to make it worse.

It's not going to work in France or England.

This proposal is just dead before it even gets started. I have no idea why they're wasting energy on it.

swiwi_ · 28-02-2019 02:43PM

There’s something about seeing the word “league” that doesn’t sit right with me. Might be enough to get me marching in the streets.

troyzer · 28-02-2019 02:45PM

swiwi_ wrote: »

There’s something about seeing the word “league” that doesn’t sit right with me. Might be enough to get me marching in the streets.

They couldn't use the word championship again.

lawred2 · 28-02-2019 02:48PM

troyzer wrote: »

They couldn't use the word championship again.

How about the Rugby World Cup?

oh no hang on... think that's taken

Exclamation Marc · 28-02-2019 02:54PM

As said already, with English and French teams pushing for extended seasons, this will be a non-runner.

Amazing how a suggestion to cut the Six Nations down to six weeks was shot down but apparently inordinately elongating the international calendar is a runner?

It's too awkward and will threaten the Heineken Cup with injuries and player fatigue and seriously threaten to reduce the Pro14 to an 'A' league. I'd be shocked if this comes to fruition.

awec · 28-02-2019 02:58PM

Exclamation Marc wrote: »

As said already, with English and French teams pushing for extended seasons, this will be a non-runner.

Amazing how a suggestion to cut the Six Nations down to six weeks was shot down but apparently inordinately elongating the international calendar is a runner?

It's too awkward and will threaten the Heineken Cup with injuries and player fatigue and seriously threaten to reduce the Pro14 to an 'A' league. I'd be shocked if this comes to fruition.

The Pro14 is already an A league.

This would make it even worse and pretty much kill the league stone dead in terms of interest. The French and English will oppose this, but the Pro14 stands to lose a lot out of this given we have much less room for any further dilution of the product. If England players play 1 or 2 less games over a season for their club then it's not great, but in the pro14 you are talking about players who already barely play for their clubs playing even less.

Former Former · 28-02-2019 03:06PM

crisco10 wrote: »

Maybe posted already but World Rugby have kicked back..

https://www.world.rugby/news/401100

Have they kicked back, or have they pretty much confirmed that the reports are correct? Looks like the latter to me.

thomond2006 · 28-02-2019 03:07PM

Yeah, that's more or less confirmation that this is a go.

tototoe · 28-02-2019 03:10PM

awec wrote: »

The Pro14 is already an A league.

This would make it even worse and pretty much kill the league stone dead in terms of interest.

The pro14 needs to be looked at anyway tbh. Interest is low enough as it stands. The fannying about with TV rights didn't help imo but it's not a strong league in any shape or form in its current guise.

Tigerandahalf · 28-02-2019 03:13PM

I wonder what is going to happen with the club game. The Premiership and Top14 won't be happy but I presume they can't just break away and refuse to release players. They are bound by World Rugby rules and release windows.

I wonder should the leagues just include non international players and then have a Champions Cup competition that includes the international players.
I really can't see a resolution to the club game unless a European league comes about (replaces the CC).

Exclamation Marc · 28-02-2019 03:17PM

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

I wonder what is going to happen with the club game. The Premiership and Top14 won't be happy but I presume they can't just break away and refuse to release players. They are bound by World Rugby rules and release windows.

I wonder should the leagues just include non international players and then have a Champions Cup competition that includes the international players.
I really can't see a resolution to the club game unless a European league comes about (replaces the CC).

They will just ensure players retire before they sign them to mega money deals. Whilst you likely can't explicitly build that in, there are ways you can structure a contract to ensure that it applies in effect anyway.

The World Cup will crumble because it will simply be a glorified World League with additional fodder teams given that any decent non-World League player will retire and sign to an English or French club.

Tigerandahalf · 28-02-2019 03:33PM

You do have the Currie Cup in SA and the Mitre 10 Cup in NZ as secondary competitions to the main Super Rugby competition. So that is one area too look at.

The Pro14, Top 14 and the Premiership could go back to fta tv, let wages become realistic and let home grown players have a chance to develop.
It is probable that the pro14 wouldn't survive and you would have to go back to national leagues again.

Who win will win out? The union national teams or the privately backed clubs? That is the biggest dilemna at the moment.

Cookiemunster · 28-02-2019 03:47PM

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

You do have the Currie Cup in SA and the Mitre 10 Cup in NZ as secondary competitions to the main Super Rugby competition. So that is one area too look at.

The Pro14, Top 14 and the Premiership could go back to fta tv, let wages become realistic and let home grown players have a chance to develop.
It is probable that the pro14 wouldn't survive and you would have to go back to national leagues again.

Who win will win out? The union national teams or the privately backed clubs? That is the biggest dilemna at the moment.

And that would be a compete and utter disaster for the national teams of Ireland, Scotland, Wales and Italy, so isn't going to happen.

Dave_The_Sheep · 28-02-2019 03:48PM

So, what are the odds that the 6N unions actually go along with this? Seeing as how they seem to have the most to lose.

Cookiemunster · 28-02-2019 03:51PM

https://twitter.com/brettgosper/status/1101129411414425600

Being based in Dublin, are they taking notes from the Irish Governments kite flying exercises? With the statement from WR earlier and this tweet from Gosper, I think they've been taken aback by the near universal backlash.

Former Former · 28-02-2019 04:18PM

Actually, it turns out we all love this idea:

https://twitter.com/brettgosper/status/1101131865073815552

awec · 28-02-2019 04:23PM

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

You do have the Currie Cup in SA and the Mitre 10 Cup in NZ as secondary competitions to the main Super Rugby competition. So that is one area too look at.

The Pro14, Top 14 and the Premiership could go back to fta tv, let wages become realistic and let home grown players have a chance to develop.
It is probable that the pro14 wouldn't survive and you would have to go back to national leagues again.

Who win will win out? The union national teams or the privately backed clubs? That is the biggest dilemna at the moment.

Super Rugby is a minimum of 16 games for every team. The Champions Cup is just 6.

The Champions Cup is completely unsuitable, in it's current format, to be the main competition for NH teams.

Utah_Saint · 28-02-2019 04:29PM

Former Former wrote: »

Actually, it turns out we all love this idea:

https://twitter.com/brettgosper/status/1101131865073815552

Gosper Stats.....

joseywhales · 28-02-2019 04:37PM

The issue is always the same, ring fencing. I don't mind diluting the 6n having leagues of 8 maybe with promotion demotion. I would happily watch a 2nd tier eight competition. This is meritocratic and gives any competition integrity. And to sideline the most naturally entertaining rugby nation's for whom rugby is Central to their culture is like ripping the heart out of rugby. You can trash all current competitions and restructure but they have to take the opportunity to create an open route from bottom to top.

who_me · 28-02-2019 06:21PM

Apologies for being late to this disaster..

The proposal has been under consideration for several months now and has seemingly won universal support from the 12 nations who will be involved.

Yeah, no ****. Once we're on the right side of the door, it's ok to shut it.

Elitist ring fencing. Screwing the smaller nations. Making Rugby Tedious Again. (Same nations playing year after year after year after year...). Money rules.

Blech.

Anyone forming a petition just to make it clear this isn't the "fans' choice" ?

stephen_n · 28-02-2019 06:24PM

who_me wrote: »

Apologies for being late to this disaster..

Yeah, no ****. Once we're on the right side of the door, it's ok to shut it.

Elitist ring fencing. Screwing the smaller nations. Making Rugby Tedious Again. (Same nations playing year after year after year after year...). Money rules.

Blech.

Anyone forming a petition just to make it clear this isn't the "fans' choice" ?

Off you go

World League thread

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