World League thread

Tigerandahalf · 28-02-2019 11:08AM

It looks like each union would get around €8/9 million. The US could potentially do well from it. They could sell out games against Ire and NZ. A lot of club squad players in Ireland may look for a career there. Some of the South Sea players may also be tempted over there.

I presume Japan will also look to recruit the South Sea players and with their club league it may be an attractive option for players.

SA, NZ and Oz will have to bring big squads up north in November with potentially 5 fixtures in a row, with no handy games unless they play Italy.

Squidgy Black · 28-02-2019 11:08AM

The only real solution here is to just move New Zealand, South Africa and Australia to the Northern Hemisphere.

Physically push the islands up, cut South Africa off from the end of their continent and float them up too.

Tigerandahalf · 28-02-2019 11:23AM

The Rugby Championship will probably be the biggest loser. It looks like a round robin fixture list so the 6 SH teams play each other once. 5 games with possibly only 2 at home, 1 against either Japan, USA or Arg.

People down there won't be happy going from playing each other 2 or 3 times to just once a year.

awec · 28-02-2019 11:23AM

So can we expect to see the good players playing for their clubs even less now?

troyzer · 28-02-2019 11:25AM

awec wrote: »

So can we expect to see the good players playing for their clubs even less now?

Nobody has explained how this is going to work with the current club schedules.

awec · 28-02-2019 11:29AM

troyzer wrote: »

Nobody has explained how this is going to work with the current club schedules.

If it means more pro14 games without international players then the IRFU can go and f**k themselves.

irishbucsfan · 28-02-2019 11:30AM

awec wrote: »

So can we expect to see the good players playing for their clubs even less now?

If it went through I’d imagine you wouldn’t see any internationals playing pro 14 rugby until at least April each season, aside from the odd tune up game.

Won’t happen though in this form.

Utah_Saint · 28-02-2019 11:50AM

Without reading every previous post on here is seems pretty obvious this is driven completely by SH interests. The desperately want in on the money generated by the 6N teams.

I am completely against it. It will destroy the club game and consign the tier 2 nations to amateur rugby for their entire existence. I really enjoy the internationals. the 6N is the highlight of the rugby year for me. This will dilute that just so SH blazers can make a few bob.

ionadnapóca · 28-02-2019 12:00PM

Utah_Saint wrote: »

Without reading every previous post on here is seems pretty obvious this is driven completely by SH interests. The desperately want in on the money generated by the 6N teams.

I am completely against it. It will destroy the club game and consign the tier 2 nations to amateur rugby for their entire existence. I really enjoy the internationals. the 6N is the highlight of the rugby year for me. This will dilute that just so SH blazers can make a few bob.

It smacks of Gus Pichot been a wiling pawn for SANZAR as thanks for letting Argentina play with you - SANZAAR.
It’s a deplorable concept.

Tigerandahalf · 28-02-2019 12:08PM

The 6N won't be diluted. It will be the exact same tournament.

Tier 2 nations have to be able to pay for themselves. That is why the USA and Japan are coming on board. The island teams were never going to have a future.

There is actually very little difference (for the NH sides) except the possibility of 2 extra November games. Most of the 6Ns teams won't play these extra games - so no real change. Presumably the 6Ns and RC winners will be guaranteed a semi. Winning the 6Ns may mean an extra home fixture with a guaranteed sell out.

What fans would turn down an annual fixture against the All Blacks, Oz and SA.

Talks that the final will be in a neutral venue but I would say that will be ditched in case of an empty stadium. It makes sense for the NH team to get the home venue but the money being split between the teams.

Utah_Saint · 28-02-2019 12:10PM

ionadnapokot wrote: »

It smacks of Gus Pichot been a wiling pawn for SANZAR as thanks for letting Argentina play with you - SANZAAR.
It’s a deplorable concept.

https://twitter.com/JimKayes/status/1101004425064177664

posted up on the42.ie comments

DGRulz · 28-02-2019 12:15PM

Why does there need to be a World Rugby rep on a national board? Is this common place with all the unions?

troyzer · 28-02-2019 12:16PM

DGRulz wrote: »

Why does there need to be a World Rugby rep on a national board? Is this common place with all the unions?

The USA is a special case. It's in everyone's interest for the USA to start giving a **** about rugby and it makes sense to invest a lot of time in developing the sport there.

OldRio · 28-02-2019 12:19PM

I give you Sky Super Sunday Rugby Franchise fixtures for November 2020

The Irish Shamrocks v The English Bulldogs. The Welsh Dragons v New Zealand Kiwis.
Then we can all look forward to the following seasons draft where all the stars of the domestic leagues will be assigned to their new teams.

In this glorious wonderful Sky HD future, player welfare has been addressed (No domestic fixtures for the chosen few)
More money generated for the 'grass roots' (Kiss my Arse)
Of course Tier 2 concerns will be addressed, sometime, in the future, down the line.
It's a win win for everyone.

Money grab, nothing more, nothing less.

troyzer · 28-02-2019 12:25PM

OldRio wrote: »

I give you Sky Super Sunday Rugby Franchise fixtures for November 2020

The Irish Shamrocks v The English Bulldogs. The Welsh Dragons v New Zealand Kiwis.
Then we can all look forward to the following seasons draft where all the stars of the domestic leagues will be assigned to their new teams.

In this glorious wonderful Sky HD 4k future, player welfare has been addressed (No domestic fixtures for the chosen few)
More money generated for the 'grass roots' (Kiss my Arse)
Of course Tier 2 concerns will be addressed, sometime, in the future, down the line.
It's a win win for everyone.

Money grab, nothing more, nothing less.

fyp.

Former Former · 28-02-2019 12:33PM

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

The 6N won't be diluted. It will be the exact same tournament.

Of course it will be diluted.

It will become a competition within a competition, like the Triple Crown or the GAA Provincial Championships.

Utah_Saint · 28-02-2019 12:53PM

once they destroy the provinces I'll go back to watching my local Kukri Ulster Rugby Championship Div 2 team...

crisco10 · 28-02-2019 01:08PM

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

The 6N won't be diluted. It will be the exact same tournament.

I think it will definetely get diluted, just like someone else pointed out, similar to GAA where its all about the All Ireland series now and the provincial championships are an addendum.

Tier 2 nations have to be able to pay for themselves. That is why the USA and Japan are coming on board. The island teams were never going to have a future.

I don't know enough about the specific financial details, but I would have thought the islanders are pretty good when they come to town (i.e. they provided Ireland with a relatively full Aviva in the last few Novembers). And even if they are a burden, how big can it really be? and should we not keep them on board to help keep the game strong?

There is actually very little difference (for the NH sides) except the possibility of 2 extra November games. Most of the 6Ns teams won't play these extra games - so no real change. Presumably the 6Ns and RC winners will be guaranteed a semi. Winning the 6Ns may mean an extra home fixture with a guaranteed sell out.

2 extra November games is a pretty big change though (for those that get it), and it will surely impact upon the club games. It would be hard to fit in 2 club comps in with these. It would actually probably benefit Leinster as they have a strong academy to fill the jerseys, but that's an aside.

What fans would turn down an annual fixture against the All Blacks, Oz and SA.

Do you know, I think I would. Too much of a good thing and all that. The current rotation type system is quite fun and maintains some element of novelty. You would also end up with it being 2 sets of "squad" players playing each other (because player loads are higher) which is much less appealing than 2 first XV's playing one another.

Not picking on you particularly Tiger. I just think its all a terrible idea and really regressive.

razorblunt · 28-02-2019 01:18PM

Yeah, the IRFU can take a long walk off a short pier if they think I'm going to support any of this nonsense.

I see Sexton has had a pop off Pichot.

sydthebeat · 28-02-2019 01:21PM

so ...im very confused....

how can they expect all nations to play each other once, meaning at least 11 international games each... plus the "area leagues" in which the 6 nations and rugby championship would have 5 games each..... meaning 16 international tests per year.

irelands test players would aim to play around 1400 minutes per season, which equate to about 18 games....... and even at that its considered a tough slog.

English players and french players, which the unison have less control over playing times, would be flogged even further, thus diminishing the quality of their national team.

Also, lions tour is dead.

why would the IRFU risk the unstabilising of at least €15million funds from the 6 nations for €8 million to take part in this competition (with no possibility of other income through international games?)

the yearly synchronized schedule makes sense... but creating an annual competition absolutely does not.

Make it a 4 year competition that:
1, concludes in middle of the RWC cycle
2, has relegation and promotion based on secondary similar tier 2 competition AND performances at previous RWC
3, reduce the number of games from 11 to 5/6 per annum, with every team playing the other home and away over the 4 year period.
4, allow for a 2 game window per annum where unions can continue to either tour or host by invitation, against teams they are not due to play that year.

errlloyd · 28-02-2019 01:27PM

sydthebeat wrote: »

so ...im very confused....

how can they expect all nations to play each other once, meaning at least 11 international games each... plus the "area leagues" in which the 6 nations and rugby championship would have 5 games each..... meaning 16 international tests per year.

The 5 tests are included in the 11.

So Ireland's schedule for a World League in an even year)

Feb - March - Play the 6 nations as normal.

June - Play 1 away test against each "Oceania" team (Australia, NZ, Japan)

November - Play 1 home test against each "Africa Americas" team (SA, USA, ARG).

(in an Odd year go away to the Americas Africa and home to the Oceanics).

Final weekend Nov, First weekend December - Play semi finals and finals.

The main change for the SH teams is the Rugby Championship becomes a 6 teams single round robin over 5 weekends with Japan USA.

sydthebeat · 28-02-2019 01:41PM

errlloyd wrote: »

The 5 tests are included in the 11.

So Ireland's schedule for a World League in an even year)

Feb - March - Play the 6 nations as normal.

June - Play 1 away test against each "Oceania" team (Australia, NZ, Japan)

November - Play 1 home test against each "Africa Americas" team (SA, USA, ARG).

(in an Odd year go away to the Americas Africa and home to the Oceanics).

Final weekend Nov, First weekend December - Play semi finals and finals.

The main change for the SH teams is the Rugby Championship becomes a 6 teams single round robin over 5 weekends with Japan USA.

thats makes a bit more sense, thanks

so in essence the number of games to be played by 8 of the 12 teams is 11 tests, 2 more teams play 12 and the last 2 play 13 tests.... so not actually too dissimilar to the current number. (wales played 12 tests last year)

I do agree with sexton that a 5 game crusade in november is a bit much.

thebaz · 28-02-2019 01:44PM

can see some merit - financially - but the team coming last must get relegated or at the very least have a playoff - be dreadful to see rugby in Fiji/Georgia etc dwindle - we need more international teams to make rugby more Global - read today that Georgia hope to get a franchise in the Pro 14 - they desrve that at the very least.

would it not make more sense to have it every second year or even every 4 years , sometimes less is more , and rugby seams to be suffering from over-saturation (Greed)

awec · 28-02-2019 01:47PM

errlloyd wrote: »

The 5 tests are included in the 11.

So Ireland's schedule for a World League in an even year)

Feb - March - Play the 6 nations as normal.

June - Play 1 away test against each "Oceania" team (Australia, NZ, Japan)

November - Play 1 home test against each "Africa Americas" team (SA, USA, ARG).

(in an Odd year go away to the Americas Africa and home to the Oceanics).

Final weekend Nov, First weekend December - Play semi finals and finals.

The main change for the SH teams is the Rugby Championship becomes a 6 teams single round robin over 5 weekends with Japan USA.

This is not what is proposed.

The 3 summer games and 3 Autumn games are randomly decided. In June NH teams will always be away, and in Autumn they'll always be home, but they could be going anywhere in June. Ireland could be away to Argentina, South Africa and Japan in one summer. They aren't grouped into geographic units.

errlloyd · 28-02-2019 01:47PM

sydthebeat wrote: »

thats makes a bit more sense, thanks

so in essence the number of games to be played by 8 of the 12 teams is 10 tests, 2 more teams play 11 and the last 2 play 12 tests.... so not actually too dissimilar to the current number. (wales played 12 tests last year)

I do agree with sexton that a 5 game crusade in november is a bit much.

Nah everyone has 11 at least. (There are 12 teams you have to play the other 11 of them once). Whether other teams have more is dependent on whether we have like a "plate" and "bowl" final too.

troyzer · 28-02-2019 01:47PM

thebaz wrote: »

can see some merit - financially - but the team coming last must get relegated or at the very least have a playoff - be dreadful to see rugby in Fiji/Georgia etc dwindle - we need more international teams to make rugby more Global - read today that Georgia hope to get a franchise in the Pro 14 - they desrve that at the very least.

Relegation would have to be at the Six Nations/Rugby Championship level. There is absolutely no way it could ever work.

Can you imagine Scotland getting relegated to the championship? It's utterly unworkable and it would be impossible to make any financial plans.

sydthebeat · 28-02-2019 01:49PM

errlloyd wrote: »

Nah everyone has 11 at least. (There are 12 teams you have to play the other 11 of them once). Whether other teams have more is dependent on whether we have like a "plate" and "bowl" final too.

ill edit to resolve my crap miscalculations

awec · 28-02-2019 01:49PM

They will never allow relegation because the unions know if they have one bad season and end up relegated it will destroy them financially.

troyzer · 28-02-2019 01:50PM

awec wrote: »

They will never allow relegation because the unions know if they have one bad season and end up relegated it will destroy them financially.

Yeah, I don't know how anybody can look at Premiership rugby and say "That's a great idea, relegation has such a positive effect on player welfare and game quality".

errlloyd · 28-02-2019 01:55PM

awec wrote: »

This is not what is proposed.

The 3 summer games and 3 Autumn games are randomly decided. In June NH teams will always be away, and in Autumn they'll always be home, but they could be going anywhere in June. Ireland could be away to Argentina, South Africa and Japan in one summer. They aren't grouped into geographic units.

The "Oceania" and "Africa America" groups make so much sense from a travel perspective. I would hope they would just do that.

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