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Claire Byrne show. Her name was Clodagh

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Comments

  • #242
    wobatkicker23
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 113 ✭✭wobatkicker23


    strandroad wrote: »
    You can't repair a sociopath if that's what he was.

    Did he choose to be a sociopath?


  • #243
    goat2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,934 ✭✭✭goat2


    I do not feel any sympathy for him,
    If he wanted to leave this world, he should have gone alone, and let the mom and boys to live a life,


  • #244
    Sam Quentin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,241 ✭✭✭Sam Quentin


    wobatkicker23 wrote: »
    You have to feel a certain level of sympathy for Hawe. If he had gotten the right help things could have turned put so differently. The mental health services in this country let down Alan and his family.

    Huh...


  • #245
    Beechwoodspark
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,174 ✭✭✭✭Beechwoodspark


    wobatkicker23 wrote: »
    The definition of mental illness is a condition which causes serious disorder in a person's behaviour or thinking.

    Are you saying this man was mentally ok?

    Do some research. This deviant bastard did LONG TERM PLANNING before he brutally killed his wife and 3 children. Following this he wrote long letters, put a note outside on the front door, completed a will, and moved money around his bank accounts before killing himself


  • #246
    goat2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,934 ✭✭✭goat2


    fiveleavesleft wrote: »
    Was Hawe still in Kilkenny at the time of Jo Jo Dullards disappearance?

    When did she go missing, and what age was he at that time, I am thinking he may have been too young back then


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  • #247
    strandroad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,676 ✭✭✭strandroad


    wobatkicker23 wrote: »
    Did he choose to be a sociopath?

    He chose to murder them. He planned it out and prepared well in advance as evidenced in today's interview transcripts. He didn't snap or hear voices. He wanted them all dead because he felt humiliated and couldn't face the consequences.


  • #248
    goat2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,934 ✭✭✭goat2


    He had it well planned, having moved the furniture in sitting room, in such a way that the sofa would be placed that the person sitting on it would have their back to the door, in advance of all of this


  • #249
    retro:electro
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,039 ✭✭✭✭retro:electro


    Good to see his ugly mug nowhere near the reporting on RTE news just now. The pictures were just focused on Clodagh and her lovely boys.


  • #250
    wobatkicker23
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 113 ✭✭wobatkicker23


    Beechwoodspark wrote: »
    Do some research. This deviant bastard did LONG TERM PLANNING before he brutally killed his wife and 3 children. Following this he wrote long letters, put a note outside on the front door, completed a will, and moved money around his bank accounts before killing himself

    And you think that is behaviour of a mentally well man?


  • #251
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 502 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Surely the possibility that he had murdered before needed to be explored. Was it?
    Was he abusing his own children, children in the school, children in a sports context?
    Clodagh & Jacqueline's brother and Jacqueline's husband both died in tragic circumstances, no third party involvement. Anyone witnessing the devastation of families after such deaths know the utter misery involved. Hawe would have seen that - that it influenced his mad thought that his lovely wife and gorgeous boys couldn't survive were he to take his own life should be factored in somewhere.
    Heartbreaking interview.


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  • #252
    wobatkicker23
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 113 ✭✭wobatkicker23


    strandroad wrote: »
    He chose to murder them. He planned it out and prepared well in advance as evidenced in today's interview transcripts. He didn't snap or hear voices. He wanted them all dead because he felt humiliated and couldn't face the consequences.

    You just said he was a sociopath? And yet you're saying he was mentally well?

    That is not a normal reaction to feeling embarassed.


  • #253
    Calltocall
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 340 ✭✭Calltocall


    wobatkicker23 wrote: »
    You have to feel a certain level of sympathy for Hawe. If he had gotten the right help things could have turned put so differently. The mental health services in this country let down Alan and his family.

    He was seeing a counsellor, a doctor etc how can you help someone if they don’t tell you what’s going on, he hid his plans to murder because he was capable of making that decision, because he was cunning, because he was ruthless, all the mental health services in the world won’t help certain individuals who actually manipulate talk therapists to their advantage, he knew exactly what he was doing, his sense of self/ego/pride was more important to him than his family, I would imagine a disturbed childhood or something imprinted in him from childhood to always keep the good side out no matter what, never ever lose face that is the biggest sign of frailty/weakness to admit there’s something wrong, I actually know elderly people who carry that bull**** pretence around and it is far more prevalent in ‘’supposedly’’ close knit/small rural towns, feel sorry for him my arse.


  • #254
    wobatkicker23
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 113 ✭✭wobatkicker23


    Calltocall wrote: »
    He was seeing a counsellor, a doctor etc how can you help someone if they don’t tell you what’s going on, he hid his plans to murder because he was capable of making that decision, because he was cunning, because he was ruthless, all the mental health services in the world won’t help certain individuals who actually manipulate talk therapists to their advantage, he knew exactly what he was doing, his sense of self/ego/pride was more important to him than his family, I would imagine a disturbed childhood or something imprinted in him from childhood to always keep the good side out no matter what, never ever lose face that is the biggest sign of frailty/weakness to admit there’s something wrong, I actually know elderly people who carry that bull**** pretense around and it is far more prevalent in ‘’supposedly’’ close knit/small rural towns, feel sorry for him my arse.

    He was the results of his genetics interacting with his environment.


  • #255
    strandroad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,676 ✭✭✭strandroad


    wobatkicker23 wrote: »
    You just said he was a sociopath? And yet you're saying he was mentally well?

    That is not a normal reaction to feeling embarassed.

    Sociopaths are not mentally ill. It's a personality disorder where you are devoid of empathy and do not care for other people. Many politicians and CEOs are likely sociopaths; they thrive on taking risks and exerting control, and are willing to sacrifice other peoples' wellbeing or indeed lives. It's how they operate. There is no therapy or cure other than learning to wear a mask of a regular human being.


  • #256
    wobatkicker23
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 113 ✭✭wobatkicker23


    strandroad wrote: »
    Sociopaths are not mentally ill. It's a personality disorder where you are devoid of empathy and do not care for other people. Many politicians and CEOs are likely sociopaths; they thrive on taking risks and exerting control, and are willing to sacrifice other peoples' wellbeing or indeed lives. It's how they operate. There is no therapy or cure other than learning to wear a mask of a regular human being.

    But he didn't choose to be a sociopath? He couldn't have felt empathy no matter how hard he tried.


  • #257
    donkeykong5
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,259 ✭✭✭donkeykong5


    wobatkicker23 wrote: »
    You have to feel a certain level of sympathy for Hawe. If he had gotten the right help things could have turned put so differently. The mental health services in this country let down Alan and his family.
    He let down himself. Murdering cruel obnoxious bastard.


  • #258
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,094 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    wobatkicker23 wrote: »
    The definition of mental illness is a condition which causes serious disorder in a person's behaviour or thinking.

    Are you saying this man was mentally ok?

    Paul Gilligan, CEO St Patrick's Mental Health Services, was on Morning Ireland this morning and he stated that somebody with a mental illness is statistically no more likely to commit a violent crime than somebody without a mental illness. If this is true, I'm struggling to see the relevance of his alleged/disputed mental illness to his premediated murder of his own family.

    Morning Ireland interview with Paul Gilligan


  • #259
    wobatkicker23
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 113 ✭✭wobatkicker23


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Paul Gilligan, CEO St Patrick's Mental Health Services, was on Morning Ireland this morning and he stated that somebody with a mental illness is statistically no more likely to commit a violent crime than somebody without a mental illness. If this is true, I'm struggling to see the relevance of his alleged/disputed mental illness to his premediated murder of his own family.

    Morning Ireland interview with Paul Gilligan

    So people who get violent during a psychotic episode are choosing to do that because they are bad people?


  • #260
    Mrsmum
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,860 ✭✭✭Mrsmum


    wobatkicker23 wrote: »
    You have to feel a certain level of sympathy for Hawe. If he had gotten the right help things could have turned put so differently. The mental health services in this country let down Alan and his family.

    I think the mental health services can only help you if you are open to being helped and I suspect he wasn't. Because that would involve letting his guard down and being honest about faults and failings. Imo he had created a perfect persona, upstanding citizen, respectable job, perfect wife, perfect family, beautiful home whereas the reality of his inner person fell way short. That secret life was well hidden but when there's a big discrepancy between who you are and who you're pretending to be, there often comes a breaking point. Often people who arrive at that stage find honesty is a source of relief but imo honesty for AH would in his mind equal failure. Basically I think he was a weak person and weak people can be extremely dangerous.


  • #261
    Calltocall
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 340 ✭✭Calltocall


    wobatkicker23 wrote: »
    He was the results of his genetics interacting with his environment.

    Your point being?


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  • #262
    strandroad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,676 ✭✭✭strandroad


    wobatkicker23 wrote: »
    But he didn't choose to be a sociopath? He couldn't have felt empathy no matter how hard he tried.

    So what? He was smart, he knew murder is wrong, he taught it to school children probably. He still did it.There are many sociopaths among us, it's a popular disorder. They manage to stop short of mass murder. He was cornered and decided to leave with his belongings.


  • #263
    wobatkicker23
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 113 ✭✭wobatkicker23


    strandroad wrote: »
    So what? He was smart, he knew murder is wrong, he taught it to school children probably. He still did it.There are many sociopaths among us, it's a popular disorder. They manage to stop short of mass murder. He was cornered and decided to leave with his belongings.

    Why do the sociopaths stop short of murder? Only because it doesn't benefit their place in society.


  • #264
    strandroad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,676 ✭✭✭strandroad


    wobatkicker23 wrote: »
    Why do the sociopaths stop short of murder? Only because it doesn't benefit their place in society.

    Sociopaths strategise very well, they just don't care about others. Murder is inconvenient in most cases so it's not worth it.


  • #265
    iamwhoiam
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,359 ✭✭✭✭iamwhoiam


    wobatkicker23 wrote: »
    So people who get violent during a psychotic episode are choosing to do that because they are bad people?

    He pre planned this murder . Step by step down to moving furniture to facilitate a clear passage . It an insult to Clodagh and her sons to somehow try to excuse his violent attack .
    Would you be as sympathetic if he attacked a member of your family ?


  • #266
    Hannibal_Smith
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 7,579 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hannibal_Smith


    Sorry...im going over old road here i know.

    But he stopped the counselling in June. Is it possible he was using the summer as one last hurrah with the family and he was always planning that night was going to be the night? That the colleague was going to tell on him in Sept. There was no need for the counselling anymore because there was an end in sight?


  • #267
    Zeek12
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,908 ✭✭✭✭Zeek12


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Paul Gilligan, CEO St Patrick's Mental Health Services, was on Morning Ireland this morning and he stated that somebody with a mental illness is statistically no more likely to commit a violent crime than somebody without a mental illness. If this is true, I'm struggling to see the relevance of his alleged/disputed mental illness to his premediated murder of his own family.

    Morning Ireland interview with Paul Gilligan

    He also made the point that people suffering from mental illness are statistically far more inclined to self harm..... rather than harm others


  • #268
    wobatkicker23
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 113 ✭✭wobatkicker23


    strandroad wrote: »
    Sociopaths strategise very well, they just don't care about others. Murder is inconvenient in most cases so it's not worth it.

    Exactly. If it benefited them and they knew they wouldn't get caught they would do it. So how can you blame him for his personality disorder?


  • #269
    freshpopcorn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,316 ✭✭✭✭freshpopcorn


    Hannibal_Smith wrote: »
    Sorry...im going over old road here i know.

    But he stopped the counselling in June. Is it possible he was using the summer as one last hurrah with the family and he was always planning that night was going to be the night? That the colleague was going to tell on him in Sept. There was no need for the counselling anymore because there was an end in sight?
    I don't think any of us really know. We can all assume what happened.
    The incident at work could have happend in June, July or August and we don't know what it is or if it was even or was reported.
    I would find it strange tough somebody sitting on it for months before reporting it because it would look bad on them if it was serious.


  • #270
    strandroad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,676 ✭✭✭strandroad


    wobatkicker23 wrote: »
    Exactly. If it benefited them and they knew they wouldn't get caught they would do it. So how can you blame him for his personality disorder?

    Sociopaths are capable of making choices. He made a choice.


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  • #271
    donkeykong5
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,259 ✭✭✭donkeykong5


    It's on now on rte1. Primetime


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