UK licence after Brexit

jimbev · 23-02-2019 10:03pm

I think when the dust has settled on brexit there will be a mutual understanding through out Europe on UK driving licenses
They will be able to make it just as hard for EU licences in the UK and what about the headache of commuting into Northern Ireland everyday

sunnysoutheast · 23-02-2019 10:30pm

jimbev wrote: »

I think when the dust has settled on brexit there will be a mutual understanding through out Europe on UK driving licenses
They will be able to make it just as hard for EU licences in the UK and what about the headache of commuting into Northern Ireland everyday

I'd agree that in due course the mutual recognition will continue.

However, as things stand, the UK will leave the EU on Mar. 29th @11:00PM so all such current arrangements will stop. Hence the urgency.

coylemj · 24-02-2019 1:09am

sunnysoutheast wrote: »

I'd agree that in due course the mutual recognition will continue.

However, as things stand, the UK will leave the EU on Mar. 29th @11:00PM so all such current arrangements will stop. Hence the urgency.

Urgency? Like the Gardai will turn back UK tourists when they drive off the ferries in Dublin and Rosslare after March 29th because they won't have an EU driving licence?

My sister and her husband are planning to drive to Wales in April next. She sent me an e-mail expressing concern about her driving licence i.e. driving in the UK with an Irish driving licence - the reverse of the OP's scenario which queries the issue of driving in Ireland with a UK licence after Brexit.

This was my response ..............

If you're going to have a problem driving with an Irish licence in the UK, so will the thousands of French, Dutch and German tourists who drive their cars off the Calais ferries and the Channel Tunnel trains every day. Not forgetting the continental truck drivers transporting components manufactured in mainland Europe to the Nissan Factory in Sunderland (9,000 workers) and the Dutch trucks bringing tomatoes to the Heinz baked bean factory in Wigan (2,000 workers). The UK would quickly grind to a halt if that happened.

Unless you think the UK cops are going to blockade the ports and turn away trucks and cars where the driver does not have a UK driving licence, you have nothing to worry about.

Charles Babbage · 24-02-2019 1:19am

Driving to Wales, I'd worry more about insurance than the driving licence.

two wheels good · 24-02-2019 1:37am

"UK driving licences will not be valid in Ireland under no-deal Brexit"
Recently reported in the Guardian

"Ireland will no longer recognise the UK driving licences of people living in Ireland in the event of a no-deal Brexit.

The Road Safety Authority of Ireland, a state agency, said this week a mutual recognition agreement would end and that holders of British licences would need to swap them for Irish licences before the UK is due to leave the EU on 29 March."

“In the event of a no-deal Brexit (my emphasis)the driving licence of a UK licence holder living here in Ireland will not be recognised and the driver will not be able to continue to drive here in Ireland on that licence,” the National Driver Licence Service, which issues permits, said in a statement"

wonski · 24-02-2019 1:56am

coylemj wrote: »

Urgency? Like the Gardai will turn back UK tourists when they drive off the ferries in Dublin and Rosslare after March 29th because they won't have an EU driving licence?

My sister and her husband are planning to drive to Wales in April next. She sent me an e-mail expressing concern about her driving licence i.e. driving in the UK with an Irish driving licence - the reverse of the OP's scenario which queries the issue of driving in Ireland with a UK licence after Brexit.

This was my response ..............

If you're going to have a problem driving with an Irish licence in the UK, so will the thousands of French, Dutch and German tourists who drive their cars off the Calais ferries and the Channel Tunnel trains every day. Not forgetting the continental truck drivers transporting components manufactured in mainland Europe to the Nissan Factory in Sunderland (9,000 workers) and the Dutch trucks bringing tomatoes to the Heinz baked bean factory in Wigan (2,000 workers). The UK would quickly grind to a halt if that happened.

Unless you think the UK cops are going to blockade the ports and turn away trucks and cars where the driver does not have a UK driving licence, you have nothing to worry about.

There is a difference between tourists and locals. Of course your driving license is valid when you are visiting or driving for a living between UK and Ireland.

If however you live in Ireland and have UK license it will be as good as us license.

Isambard · 24-02-2019 9:52am

two wheels good wrote: »

"UK driving licences will not be valid in Ireland under no-deal Brexit"
Recently reported in the Guardian

"Ireland will no longer recognise the UK driving licences of people living in Ireland in the event of a no-deal Brexit.

The Road Safety Authority of Ireland, a state agency, said this week a mutual recognition agreement would end and that holders of British licences would need to swap them for Irish licences before the UK is due to leave the EU on 29 March."

“In the event of a no-deal Brexit (my emphasis)the driving licence of a UK licence holder living here in Ireland will not be recognised and the driver will not be able to continue to drive here in Ireland on that licence,” the National Driver Licence Service, which issues permits, said in a statement"

well, no one can say what a Brexit agreement might contain. It may permit UK licenses to be used by Irish reseidents, it may not. But the thing is, unless there is a specific agreement for UK license holders living in Ireland to use them here, then those license holders may be in the same position as US drivers who have to take a test. (If there's no deal, I'd say that would be a certainty

Marcusm · 24-02-2019 12:14pm

coylemj wrote: »

Urgency? Like the Gardai will turn back UK tourists when they drive off the ferries in Dublin and Rosslare after March 29th because they won't have an EU driving licence?

My sister and her husband are planning to drive to Wales in April next. She sent me an e-mail expressing concern about her driving licence i.e. driving in the UK with an Irish driving licence - the reverse of the OP's scenario which queries the issue of driving in Ireland with a UK licence after Brexit.

This was my response ..............

If you're going to have a problem driving with an Irish licence in the UK, so will the thousands of French, Dutch and German tourists who drive their cars off the Calais ferries and the Channel Tunnel trains every day. Not forgetting the continental truck drivers transporting components manufactured in mainland Europe to the Nissan Factory in Sunderland (9,000 workers) and the Dutch trucks bringing tomatoes to the Heinz baked bean factory in Wigan (2,000 workers). The UK would quickly grind to a halt if that happened.

Unless you think the UK cops are going to blockade the ports and turn away trucks and cars where the driver does not have a UK driving licence, you have nothing to worry about.

Absolutely nothing to do with tourists. Solely related to Irish residents (if whatever citizenship) who drive in Ireland on a mutual recognition basis on a U.K. licence.

Marcusm · 24-02-2019 12:17pm

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

I'm referring to a scenario where a person doesn't exchange their licence but starts at the beginning in the second country - learner permit, test etc and obtains a licence for that country also (as my brother has done).

donkey balls wrote: »

Absolutely nothing wrong with going through the process again from start and obtaining another driving licence.

Both incorrect. The only basis for holding two EU licences is if they cover different categories. When applying for a licence you are required to make a declaration (subject to criminal penalties) that you do not have an existing EU licence.

Squidgy Black · 24-02-2019 12:20pm

It's quite terrifying that somehow people are interpreting this as the Irish government saying they're going to refuse to recognise a UK resident has a valid driving license when visiting Ireland.

sunnysoutheast · 24-02-2019 12:30pm

coylemj wrote: »

Urgency? Like the Gardai will turn back UK tourists when they drive off the ferries in Dublin and Rosslare after March 29th because they won't have an EU driving licence?

My sister and her husband are planning to drive to Wales in April next. She sent me an e-mail expressing concern about her driving licence i.e. driving in the UK with an Irish driving licence - the reverse of the OP's scenario which queries the issue of driving in Ireland with a UK licence after Brexit.

This was my response ..............

If you're going to have a problem driving with an Irish licence in the UK, so will the thousands of French, Dutch and German tourists who drive their cars off the Calais ferries and the Channel Tunnel trains every day. Not forgetting the continental truck drivers transporting components manufactured in mainland Europe to the Nissan Factory in Sunderland (9,000 workers) and the Dutch trucks bringing tomatoes to the Heinz baked bean factory in Wigan (2,000 workers). The UK would quickly grind to a halt if that happened.

Unless you think the UK cops are going to blockade the ports and turn away trucks and cars where the driver does not have a UK driving licence, you have nothing to worry about.

The urgency is for Irish residents driving on a UK licence, which was the OP's scenario. As I said, as things stand, the mutual recognition will stop if there is a no-deal Brexit.

People in this scenario can roll the dice and bank on a deal of some sort being made, which will start the transition period, or that the mutual recognition will be put in place before the 29th if they like, I'm not risking it.

coylemj · 24-02-2019 5:17pm

Charles Babbage wrote: »

Driving to Wales, I'd worry more about insurance than the driving licence.

Irish motor policies have always included cover to drive in NI, GB, the Channel Islands and the Isle of Man. This level of cover predates 1973 (when UK, Ireland and Denmark joined the EEC) and is not conditional on the UK's membership of the EU so will not be affected by Brexit.

Download any Irish motor policy document, search for the word 'channel' and you'll see what I mean. EU and mainland Europe are treated differently from GB.

Charles Babbage · 24-02-2019 7:57pm

coylemj wrote: »

Irish motor policies have always included cover to drive in NI, GB, the Channel Islands and the Isle of Man. This level of cover predates 1973 (when UK, Ireland and Denmark joined the EEC) and is not conditional on the UK's membership of the EU so will not be affected by Brexit.

Download any Irish motor policy document, search for the word 'channel' and you'll see what I mean. EU and mainland Europe are treated differently from GB.

Policies were required to fully include NI from about 1960 or so, but I am less certain that there was any requirement to include GB on the same basis, even if this was usual.

coylemj · 24-02-2019 11:29pm

Charles Babbage wrote: »

Policies were required to fully include NI from about 1960 or so, but I am less certain that there was any requirement to include GB on the same basis, even if this was usual.

I don't think (and I never suggested) that Irish insurance companies were ever forced to include cover for driving in GB. I suspect that since they drive on the left and the signs are all in English, the Irish insurance companies never perceived driving over there as carrying any greater risk so they gave the cover as standard. It also saved the paperwork which would have been required to give people cover with new certs. where they intended go take the ferries over.

Though I always wondered why the Channel Islands were included as I can't imagine anyone from here bringing a car to Jersey or Guernsey.

Charles Babbage · 25-02-2019 12:16am

coylemj wrote: »

I don't think (and I never suggested) that Irish insurance companies were ever forced to include cover for driving in GB. I suspect that since they drive on the left and the signs are all in English, the Irish insurance companies never perceived driving over there as carrying any greater risk so they gave the cover as standard. It also saved the paperwork which would have been required to give people cover with new certs. where they intended go take the ferries over.

Though I always wondered why the Channel Islands were included as I can't imagine anyone from here bringing a car to Jersey or Guernsey.

The risk might be the same, the legal system similar and so no real basis for difference, but that doesn' mean that some companies (not all) might not pass the opportunity to charge you extra.

27-02-2019 10:28am

Just on a point of information on this the UK Government have confirmed all EU licenses will remain valid in the UK both for tourists and residents, whatever happens in the next few months.

I am struggling to understand why our Government can't do the same? What's the point of this announcement? I appreciate it might take some time to get relevant changes in law passed but they could at least indicate an aspiration to do so.

As it stands, to me it looks like punishing people on UK licenses (many of whom are Irish of course) for the sake of making some sort of political point. I hope that isn't the case, but I can't understand any other reason for this.

27-02-2019 10:37am

LIGHTNING wrote: »

Well considering how little ****s the UK government is giving about Ireland id say if it is a political point by the Irish government then fair play.

Yeah, inconveniencing Irish citizens in order to get one back at the UK Government. Fair play indeed.

MascotDec85 · 27-02-2019 10:43am

A reply from Mairead McGuinness:

Hi Andy,
Thanks for getting in touch. The Commission's advice for holders of UK licenses driving in the EU is that the mutual recognition of driving licences by member states for the UK will no longer be compulsory under EU law. Therefore the Commission advises to contact the responsible authorities in the member state (see page 19 of the Commission's preparedness notice on travelling here: https://ec.europa.eu/info/sites/info/files/file_import/travelling_en.pdf).
So the link you sent from the NDLS is the most appropriate advice to follow, and it might be best to exchange your licence before 29 March.
If the Withdrawal Agreement is ratified, then the mutual recognition of licences will continue during the transition period, until the end of 2020.
Kind regards,
Mairead

GM228 · 27-02-2019 10:49am

Deleted User wrote: »

Just on a point of information on this the UK Government have confirmed all EU licenses will remain valid in the UK both for tourists and residents, whatever happens in the next few months.

I am struggling to understand why our Government can't do the same? What's the point of this announcement? I appreciate it might take some time to get relevant changes in law passed but they could at least indicate an aspiration to do so.

As it stands, to me it looks like punishing people on UK licenses (many of whom are Irish of course) for the sake of making some sort of political point. I hope that isn't the case, but I can't understand any other reason for this.

The Irish Government has already previously confirmed that they will be recognised somewhere, I'll dig it out.

There's so much scare mongering regarding licences that they (the EU, Ireland and the UK) seem to forget to mention that both the EUs individual countries have recognised each others driving licences since signing up to the 1968 Vienna Convention on Road Traffic (or the 1949 Geneva Convention on Road Traffic), this is separate to the EUs mutual recognition of driving licences.

There's also the question of weather or not the UK will still be part of the EEA, if they do then the licence issue does not arise.

EDIT:

Both Ireland and the EU have confirmed this already several months ago:-

https://www.dfa.ie/media/dfa/eu/brexit/brexitcontingency/No-Deal-Brexit-Contingency-Action-Plan-December-18.pdf

19. Are UK driving licences going to be recognised in the EU in a no deal scenario?

In a no-deal scenario, UK driving licences will be recognised in the European Union (and vice-versa) on the basis of the 1968 Vienna Convention on Road Traffic (and the 1949 Geneva Convention on Road Traffic in the case of Ireland, Cyprus, Malta and Spain).

And from the EU themselves:-

https://ec.europa.eu/info/sites/info/files/brexit_files/info_site/travelling.pdf

6.1. Driving licences

According to Union law, driving licences issued by Member States of the EU are mutually recognised. As of the withdrawal date, this mutual recognition will no longer be compulsory as a matter of EU law. Instead, an international agreement, the Vienna Convention on Road Traffic, will apply.

The United Kingdom and all but four Member States (Ireland, Cyprus, Malta and Spain) are parties to this Convention which provides for the recognition of national driving licences and international driving permits issued by contracting states in accordance with this Convention.

The four EU Member States (Ireland, Cyprus, Malta and Spain) which are not parties to the Vienna Convention on Road Traffic are parties to a previous international agreement, to which the United Kingdom is also a party.This agreement provides for the recognition of driving licences, but parties to this agreement may also require the holders of driving licences to be in possession of an International Driving Permit.

Holders of UK driving licences who intend to drive in the EU are therefore advised to contact the responsible Member State authorities regarding the recognition rules for driving licences. Holders of European Union driving licences who intend to drive in the United Kingdom are advised to contact the responsible authority in the United Kingdom regarding the recognition rules for their driving licences.

Article 24 of the 1949 Convention (applicable to Ireland) states:-

https://treaties.un.org/doc/Treaties/1952/03/19520326%2003-36%20PM/Ch_XI_B_1_2_3.pdf

1. Each Contracting State shall allow any driver admitted to its territory who fulfils the conditions which are set out in annex 8 and who holds a valid driving permit issued to him, after he has given proof of his competence, by the competent authority of another Contracting State or subdivision thereof, or by an association duly empowered by such authority, to drive on its roads without further examination motor vehicles of the category or categories defined in annexes 9 and 10 for which the permit has been issued.

The requirement for an IDP as mentioned by the EU is optional under Article 24.2, Ireland does not require such.

I hope that clarifies the situation as it stands.

CJhaughey · 27-02-2019 11:29am

GM228 wrote: »

The Irish Government has already previously confirmed that they will be recognised somewhere, I'll dig it out.

There's so much scare mongering regarding licences that they (the EU, Ireland and the UK) seem to forget to mention that both the EUs individual countries have recognised each others driving licences since signing up to the 1968 Vienna Convention on Road Traffic (or the 1949 Geneva Convention on Road Traffic), this is separate to the EUs mutual recognition of driving licences.

There's also the question of weather or not the UK will still be part of the EEA, if they do then the licence issue does not arise.

EDIT:

Both Ireland and the EU have confirmed this already several months ago:-

https://www.dfa.ie/media/dfa/eu/brexit/brexitcontingency/No-Deal-Brexit-Contingency-Action-Plan-December-18.pdf

And from the EU themselves:-

https://ec.europa.eu/info/sites/info/files/brexit_files/info_site/travelling.pdf

Article 24 of the 1949 Convention (applicable to Ireland) states:-

https://treaties.un.org/doc/Treaties/1952/03/19520326%2003-36%20PM/Ch_XI_B_1_2_3.pdf

The requirement for an IDP as mentioned by the EU is optional under Article 24.2, Ireland does not require such.

I hope that clarifies the situation as it stands.

So the statement by the RSA is not really factual?

Peregrinus · 27-02-2019 11:34am

You have to read Art. 24 along with Art. 1 para 2:

No Contracting State shall be required to extend the benefit of the provisions of this Convention to . . . any driver having remained within its territory for a continuous period exceeding one year.

So if you have been an Irish resident for a year or more, I don't think you can rely on the Convention to exempt you from the requirement to obtain an Irish licence.

Marcusm · 27-02-2019 11:57am

GM228 wrote: »

The Irish Government has already previously confirmed that they will be recognised somewhere, I'll dig it out.

There's so much scare mongering regarding licences that they (the EU, Ireland and the UK) seem to forget to mention that both the EUs individual countries have recognised each others driving licences since signing up to the 1968 Vienna Convention on Road Traffic (or the 1949 Geneva Convention on Road Traffic), this is separate to the EUs mutual recognition of driving licences.

There's also the question of weather or not the UK will still be part of the EEA, if they do then the licence issue does not arise.

EDIT:

Both Ireland and the EU have confirmed this already several months ago:-

https://www.dfa.ie/media/dfa/eu/brexit/brexitcontingency/No-Deal-Brexit-Contingency-Action-Plan-December-18.pdf

And from the EU themselves:-

https://ec.europa.eu/info/sites/info/files/brexit_files/info_site/travelling.pdf

Article 24 of the 1949 Convention (applicable to Ireland) states:-

https://treaties.un.org/doc/Treaties/1952/03/19520326%2003-36%20PM/Ch_XI_B_1_2_3.pdf

The requirement for an IDP as mentioned by the EU is optional under Article 24.2, Ireland does not require such.

I hope that clarifies the situation as it stands.

The benefits of the Convention apply to visitors not residents. That latter category is where the issue arises.

jimgoose · 27-02-2019 12:35pm

From the NDLS:

"Please be advised the NDLS do not deal with the International Driving Permits. This type of licence is usually only valid for a year and is used in conjunction with the driver's Full driving licence.

In the event of a no deal Brexit, the Road Safety Authority here in Ireland will come to some arrangement with the DVLA. We do not have a timeframe for this arrangement to be put in place."

This may or may not amount to a hill of beans, too little too late, YMMV, etc.

CJhaughey · 27-02-2019 1:21pm

Its a two way street, there are presumably many EU/Irish License holders in the UK that will be greatly inconvenienced by this issue, I wouldn't rule out that they may recognise UK licenses the same way they recognise Australian,NZ licenses given the fact that they drive on the correct side of the road.

Isambard · 27-02-2019 1:54pm

CJhaughey wrote: »

Its a two way street, there are presumably many EU/Irish License holders in the UK that will be greatly inconvenienced by this issue, I wouldn't rule out that they may recognise UK licenses the same way they recognise Australian,NZ licenses given the fact that they drive on the correct side of the road.

do they recognise them for UK residents?

27-02-2019 2:03pm

CJhaughey wrote: »

Its a two way street, there are presumably many EU/Irish License holders in the UK that will be greatly inconvenienced by this issue, I wouldn't rule out that they may recognise UK licenses the same way they recognise Australian,NZ licenses given the fact that they drive on the correct side of the road.

How will they be inconvenienced? The UK Government has confirmed their licenses will remain valid.

theteal · 27-02-2019 2:18pm

Quick one relating to this subject.

Through a bit of a fluke a few weeks ago, I'm now in possession of both UK and Irish drivers licenses. I've lived in the UK for almost 8 years now. The Irish one expires in about 5 months.

Is there any benefit in getting it renewed? (If I even could, not sure I could provide a proof of address, if required). I may be moving back in the next few years but I've been 8 years saying that

Isambard · 27-02-2019 2:47pm

Deleted User wrote: »

How will they be inconvenienced? The UK Government has confirmed their licenses will remain valid.

you'll have to provide some link to that. there's so much mis-information out there, we can't just rely on you having read something somewhere

Anjobe · 27-02-2019 3:10pm

Isambard wrote: »

you'll have to provide some link to that. there's so much mis-information out there, we can't just rely on you having read something somewhere

I don't see anything here: https://www.gov.uk/government/latest?departments%5B%5D=department-for-exiting-the-european-union

27-02-2019 3:11pm

Isambard wrote: »

you'll have to provide some link to that. there's so much mis-information out there, we can't just rely on you having read something somewhere

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/prepare-to-drive-in-the-eu-after-brexit#eu-drivers-visiting-or-living-in-the-uk-after-eu-exit

Our Government's line appears to be that they simply cannot do anything and a hard brexit means they are forced to stop accepting UK licences. Absolute nonsense as far as I can tell.

The people this most affects are almost certainly Irish citizens who grew up in the north and are living in the south - some for many many years I suspect.

Marcusm · 27-02-2019 3:36pm

theteal wrote: »

Quick one relating to this subject.

Through a bit of a fluke a few weeks ago, I'm now in possession of both UK and Irish drivers licenses. I've lived in the UK for almost 8 years now. The Irish one expires in about 5 months.

Is there any benefit in getting it renewed? (If I even could, not sure I could provide a proof of address, if required). I may be moving back in the next few years but I've been 8 years saying that

Are they for the same or overlapping categories? If yes then you didn’t read the IK form properly which asked you to confirm that you did not hold an existing RU licence. It will most likely never come to light but the U.K. licence will have been obtained via a false declaration (unknowingly, i’ll Guess). On that basis it is void on its face.

Isambard · 27-02-2019 3:45pm

Deleted User wrote: »

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/prepare-to-drive-in-the-eu-after-brexit#eu-drivers-visiting-or-living-in-the-uk-after-eu-exit

Our Government's line appears to be that they simply cannot do anything and a hard brexit means they are forced to stop accepting UK licences. Absolute nonsense as far as I can tell.

The people this most affects are almost certainly Irish citizens who grew up in the north and are living in the south - some for many many years I suspect.

good man, that seems quite clear.

27-02-2019 3:46pm

jimgoose wrote: »

It actually gets a little more painful. From https://www.ndls.ie/holders-of-foreign-licences.html#to-apply-to-exchange-a-foreign-driving-licence-issued-by-a-member-state-of-the-european-union-european-economic-area:

"Please note: Applications to exchange a licence may take 2/3 months to process as we need to contact the original licensing authority."

That's if there is no exchange agreement in place.

I changed mu UK licence for an Irish one a few years ago (my UK licence was one of the newer ones that had expired) and I just downloaded the forms, made the appointment and had my Irish licence in a few days.

GM228 · 27-02-2019 4:24pm

CJhaughey wrote: »

So the statement by the RSA is not really factual?

As it stands they are factually correct, the Government just need to make minor legislative changes for wider use of the Convention.

Peregrinus wrote: »

You have to read Art. 24 along with Art. 1 para 2:

No Contracting State shall be required to extend the benefit of the provisions of this Convention to . . . any driver having remained within its territory for a continuous period exceeding one year.

So if you have been an Irish resident for a year or more, I don't think you can rely on the Convention to exempt you from the requirement to obtain an Irish licence.

This is true, currently, however the point I'm making is that there simply needs to be a minor legislative change to allow for such, Article 1 sets a minimum timeframe for the applicability of the Convention, not a maximum. The use of the Convention gives potential for overnight legislative changes, yes quite literally overnight as it can be done via Ministerial Regulation rather than an Act, and on top of that there is no prolonged process or negotiation for a bi-lateral agreement required for recognition (though there would be for exchange purposes in future) because we already have a long established agreed Treaty to fall back on.

Marcusm wrote: »

The benefits of the Convention apply to visitors not residents. That latter category is where the issue arises.

Currently yes, however the Convention is framed in such a way that it can be used for any person who has crossed a frontier barrier weather that be recently or several years ago for example. Whilst the current legislation applies to a visitor the Convention does not have such a restriction.

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Our Government's line appears to be that they simply cannot do anything and a hard brexit means they are forced to stop accepting UK licences. Absolute nonsense as far as I can tell.

The Government have not made that line, the NDLS have and based on the current law they are simply stating the facts as they are currently.

The Governments line via the Department of Foreign Affairs has already said licences will be valid.

Marcusm · 27-02-2019 5:02pm

GM228 wrote: »

As it stands they are factually correct, the Government just need to make minor legislative changes for wider use of the Convention.

This is true, currently, however the point I'm making is that there simply needs to be a minor legislative change to allow for such, Article 1 sets a minimum timeframe for the applicability of the Convention, not a maximum. The use of the Convention gives potential for overnight legislative changes, yes quite literally overnight as it can be done via Ministerial Regulation rather than an Act, and on top of that there is no prolonged process or negotiation for a bi-lateral agreement required for recognition (though there would be for exchange purposes in future) because we already have a long established agreed Treaty to fall back on.

Currently yes, however the Convention is framed in such a way that it can be used for any person who has crossed a frontier barrier weather that be recently or several years ago for example. Whilst the current legislation applies to a visitor the Convention does not have such a restriction.

The Government have not made that line, the NDLS have and based on the current law they are simply stating the facts as they are currently.

The Governments line via the Department of Foreign Affairs has already said licences will be valid.

I haven’t checked but I suspect that EU law will require residents with non-EU licences to exchange or requalify within 12 months meaning it is not within the competency of the member state to increase the term of recognition.

GM228 · 27-02-2019 5:08pm

Marcusm wrote: »

I haven’t checked but I suspect that EU law will require residents with non-EU licences to exchange or requalify within 12 months meaning it is not within the competency of the member state to increase the term of recognition.

EU law does not require such.

27-02-2019 5:09pm

GM228 wrote: »

The Government have not made that line, the NDLS have and based on the current law they are simply stating the facts as they are currently.

The Governments line via the Department of Foreign Affairs has already said licences will be valid.

Is there a link to the latter? Because the NDLS line is the one getting all the attention.

theteal · 27-02-2019 5:10pm

Marcusm wrote: »

Are they for the same or overlapping categories? If yes then you didn’t read the IK form properly which asked you to confirm that you did not hold an existing RU licence. It will most likely never come to light but the U.K. licence will have been obtained via a false declaration (unknowingly, i’ll Guess). On that basis it is void on its face.

The Irish license had been lost for weeks (well actually months but I wasn't aware) at that stage, I had to send a print of a saved copy with my UK application. It turned up the day after the UK one arrived, I sh!t you not.

I'm of the opinion that keeping the Irish one renewed is pretty pointless but am I overlooking anything?

GM228 · 27-02-2019 5:17pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Is there a link to the latter? Because the NDLS line is the one getting all the attention.

Look at the Government Brexit Contingency Action Plan issued in December:

https://www.dfa.ie/media/dfa/eu/brexit/brexitcontingency/No-Deal-Brexit-Contingency-Action-Plan-December-18.pdf

19. Are UK driving licences going to be recognised in the EU in a no deal scenario?

In a no-deal scenario, UK driving licences will be recognised in the European Union (and vice-versa) on the basis of the 1968 Vienna Convention on Road Traffic (and the 1949 Geneva Convention on Road Traffic in the case of Ireland, Cyprus, Malta and Spain).

It is clear that the Government will use the Convention as I outlined for this and the EU themselves have also stated this.

Isambard · 27-02-2019 5:22pm

GM228 wrote: »

Look at the Government Brexit Contingency Action Plan issued in December:

https://www.dfa.ie/media/dfa/eu/brexit/brexitcontingency/No-Deal-Brexit-Contingency-Action-Plan-December-18.pdf

It is clear that the Government will use the Convention as I outlined for this and the EU themselves have also stated this.

yes that's for tourists but it's not quite the same for Residents. Whereas the UK Govt has said it will accept Irish and other EU licenses for Residents, Ireland has said it won't accept UK licenses for Residents in the event of No Deal

GM228 · 27-02-2019 5:26pm

Isambard wrote: »

yes that's for tourists but it's not quite the same for Residents. Whereas the UK Govt has said it will accept Irish and other EU licenses for Residents, Ireland has said it won't accept UK licenses for Residents in the event of No Deal

And the Convention can be used if legislation is changed as I outlined, where has "Ireland" stated they won't accept for residents?

The AA has recently stated that the Department of Transport are in discussion regarding a "patch" to the law.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.joe.ie/amp/motors/emergency-law-uk-driving-licence-brexit-659512

27-02-2019 5:28pm

GM228 wrote: »

And the Convention can be used if legislation is changed as I outlined, where has "Ireland" stated they won't accept for residents?

On the NDLS website?

It's a state agency, it says in black and white you cannot drive on a UK licence after March 29th.

jimgoose · 27-02-2019 5:29pm

Deleted User wrote: »

On the NDLS website?

It's a state agency, it says in black and white you cannot drive on a UK licence after March 29th.

That's the position as it stands right now. The NDLS told me there are moves afoot to try to rectify the situation alright.

mdebets · 27-02-2019 5:42pm

theteal wrote: »

The Irish license had been lost for weeks (well actually months but I wasn't aware) at that stage, I had to send a print of a saved copy with my UK application. It turned up the day after the UK one arrived, I sh!t you not.

I'm of the opinion that keeping the Irish one renewed is pretty pointless but am I overlooking anything?

In this case, your Irish license is invalid. The UK authorities had to inform the Irish authorities about the exchange, which would have marked it as exchanged in the Irish system. You are not able to renew it, as the NDSL knows that you exchanged it for an UK one.

Isambard · 27-02-2019 6:17pm

Deleted User wrote: »

On the NDLS website?

It's a state agency, it says in black and white you cannot drive on a UK licence after March 29th.

in the event of a no deal Brexit, which incidentally is looking increasingly unlikely in view of the news the last day or two

GM228 · 27-02-2019 6:18pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

On the NDLS website?

It's a state agency, it says in black and white you cannot drive on a UK licence after March 29th.

The NDLS is not a state agency, it is a service, and despite being linked to the RSA it is not run by the RSA either.

Three private companies operate the NDLS. The statement was made by the NDLS, not a state agency or "Ireland".

Credit Checker Moose · 27-02-2019 6:21pm

GM228 wrote: »

The NDLS is not a state agency, it is a service, and despite being linked to the RSA it is not run by the RSA either.

Three private companies operate the NDLS. The statement was made by the NDLS, not a state agency or "Ireland".

Funny you mentioned that.

I was asked by a foreign agency for the name of the issuing authority for Irish licences. Is it the DOE, DOT, RSA or NDLS? Or does that depend on the date of issue?

GM228 · 27-02-2019 6:22pm

Credit Checker Moose wrote: »

Funny you mentioned that.

I was asked by a foreign agency for the name of the issuing authority for Irish licences. Is it the DOE, DOT, RSA or NDLS? Or does that depend on the date of issue?

NDLS is the issuing authority.

Credit Checker Moose · 27-02-2019 6:23pm

Even for the paper ones?

27-02-2019 6:25pm

GM228 wrote: »

The NDLS is not a state agency, it is a service, and despite being linked to the RSA it is not run by the RSA either.

Three private companies operate the NDLS. The statement was made by the NDLS, not a state agency or "Ireland".

OK fine.

Same information on the RSA website with a big dirty "Government Of ireland" image above it:
http://www.rsa.ie/en/Utility/News/2019/Brexit-Update/

UK licence after Brexit

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