UK licence after Brexit

pawdee

I don't know if this is in the right place but here's my question anyway.......

I've been driving on a UK license here in the ROI for the last 21 years or so. When I moved back from the UK in 1998 I went to my local Motor Tax office with form filled and cheque written ready to exchange for an Irish license. The lady in the office told me I'd be mad to change as my UK license is valid until I'm 70. So off I went and motored away since.

I presume that once the UK leave the EU my license is no longer valid? Does anyone know anything about this? Thanks in advance!

seamus

I don't think there's any official guidance on this yet, but you'll probably have a year to exchange your licence.

Edit: Actually I'm completely wrong:
https://www.ndls.ie/news.html

You need to exchange your licence ASAP.

Alanstrainor

I would expect no change here after brexit. You can exchange your license from lots of countries that are not in the EU, so I would think that this will continue for the UK after Brexit happens. You can of course start the process of changing your UK license to an Irish one now if you wish.

Wow, well that was wrong. Holy moly what a disaster. Exchange now OP.

Alun

I'm surprised at the statement on the NDLS page linked to above. Whilst there's automatic recognition of EU licences in other EU states, there's nothing actually stopping Ireland from recognising UK licences if it wants to, I would have thought?

pawdee

Alun wrote: »

I'm surprised at the statement on the NDLS page linked to above. Whilst there's automatic recognition of EU licences in other EU states, there's nothing actually stopping Ireland from recognising UK licences if it wants to, I would have thought?

Not if they can make a few bob from application fees and renewals every 10 (or is it 5 ?) years! It's not something I had to think about up to now. Anyway it looks like I better get my skates on.

seamus

Alun wrote: »

I'm surprised at the statement on the NDLS page linked to above. Whilst there's automatic recognition of EU licences in other EU states, there's nothing actually stopping Ireland from recognising UK licences if it wants to, I would have thought?

It would required a change in the regulations. At best, the UK would become a recognised foreign licence, which would entitle any holder to drive in Ireland for up to 12 months.
Which means if you're here 21 years, then you're 20 years over.

They could also add in a special case providing permanent recognition for UK licences, but I wouldn't count on that happening before 29th March.

What a mess.

MascotDec85

I’m in the same boat. Here 18 years, still on my UK licence and also an ADI. In theory, on the 29th March my ability to work as a driving instructor would end.

My local MEP is Mairead McGuinness. She’s vice-president of the European Parliament. I contacted her regarding this recently and she said she’ll ask the Commission.

My understanding is this until I hear otherwise:
I’ve various categories including C1, D1 etc etc. these don’t expire until 2045. If I exchange it for an Irish licence i have to get a medical every 5 years to keep the categories active rather than the 10 years that currently exist.

monkeynuz

MascotDec85 wrote: »

I’m in the same boat. Here 18 years, still on my UK licence and also an ADI. In theory, on the 29th March my ability to work as a driving instructor would end.

My local MEP is Mairead McGuinness. She’s vice-president of the European Parliament. I contacted her regarding this recently and she said she’ll ask the Commission.

My understanding is this until I hear otherwise:
I’ve various categories including C1, D1 etc etc. these don’t expire until 2045. If I exchange it for an Irish licence i have to get a medical every 5 years to keep the categories active rather than the 10 years that currently exist.

Me too, I also want to keep my c1/e and d1/e but on the website it says I need to show certificates....I never got any as my entitlements came with my licence?

Phileas Frog

Alun wrote: »

I'm surprised at the statement on the NDLS page linked to above. Whilst there's automatic recognition of EU licences in other EU states, there's nothing actually stopping Ireland from recognising UK licences if it wants to, I would have thought?

Any such agreement would have to be mutual

Peregrinus

Alun wrote: »

I'm surprised at the statement on the NDLS page linked to above. Whilst there's automatic recognition of EU licences in other EU states, there's nothing actually stopping Ireland from recognising UK licences if it wants to, I would have thought?

Phileas Frog wrote: »

Any such agreement would have to be mutual

Well, it wouldn't have to be mutual; there's nothing to stop Ireland doing it unilaterally, if it wants to.

But that raises the question, why would we want to do this unilaterally? Indeed, why would we want to do this at all, even mutually? We currently accept EU licences indefinitely because EU law requires it; EU law doesn't require us to accept non-EU licences indefinitely, and we don't. There's probably a reason for that.

Ask yourself what the purposes and policies behind having a licensing scheme in the first place might be. Then ask yourself how those purposes and policies will be advanced by creating a carve-out for people who obtained licences in the UK. If you can't think of answer to that question, well, ....

(And there is another side to this. Suppose Ireland does decide to accept UK licences indefinitely. If you go to any third country, whether in the EU or elsewhere, you won't be able to drive on your UK licence, even temporarily as a tourist, because you're not a resident of the UK. As a tourist, most countries will accept a licence from the country in which you reside (or any EU licence, if you're a tourist from an EU country), but they are less likely to accept licences from just any country at all. So if you want to keep open the option of borrowing or hiring a car while on your holliers, I think you'd still be wise to exchange your licence.)

Spook_ie

Would not the CTA come into play, did you need an Irish license pre 1973?

giveth

Article in the Irish Times on this today:

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/uk-licences-defunct-in-ireland-under-no-deal-brexit-rsa-warns-1.3802168

Holders of UK driving licences will be forced to trade them in for their Irish equivalent as they will become defunct in the event of a no-deal Brexit, the Road Safety Authority (RSA) has warned.

Peregrinus

Spook_ie wrote: »

Would not the CTA come into play, did you need an Irish license pre 1973?

SFAIK, pre-1973 if you were resident in Ireland, yes, you needed an Irish licence.

The CTA has nothing to do with this; it's quite in scope to migration controls at the borders. It's relevant to whether you need a passport or other travel document to enter Ireland or the UK, but has nothing to say about the terms on which you can drive in either country.

seamus

Spook_ie wrote: »

Would not the CTA come into play, did you need an Irish license pre 1973?

It's a residency limitation really. Anyone living in the UK would be entitled to drive in Ireland on their UK licence. It's only Irish residents on a UK licence who are affected.

I would also expect that the NDLS don't take your foreign licence away. So when you do an exchange you will be given a new Irish licence and your old foreign licence back.

So when they do eventually get to sorting this mess out, you may be able to go back to using your UK licence.

Isambard

another thing to bear in mind whilst you rush off to swap your license, I guess your new Irish license will bear all the points you built up on your "ghost" Irish license over the years.

pawdee

Isambard wrote: »

another thing to bear in mind whilst you rush off to swap your license, I guess your new Irish license will bear all the points you built up on your "ghost" Irish license over the years.

How is it a "ghost" Irish license? Mine is a UK license which is valid here. Valid in the UK until I'm 70. It says ceadunas tiomana on the front and all

hi5

MascotDec85 wrote: »

I’m in the same boat. Here 18 years, still on my UK licence and also an ADI. In theory, on the 29th March my ability to work as a driving instructor would end.

My local MEP is Mairead McGuinness. She’s vice-president of the European Parliament. I contacted her regarding this recently and she said she’ll ask the Commission.

My understanding is this until I hear otherwise:
I’ve various categories including C1, D1 etc etc. these don’t expire until 2045. If I exchange it for an Irish licence i have to get a medical every 5 years to keep the categories active rather than the 10 years that currently exist.

I also have these categories and am thinking of dropping them as the hassle of doing a medical and renewing every 5 years is not worth it, I can't remember the last time I drove a truck up to 7.5 tonne.
Also if I was to move back to the UK would I get all my UK categories reinstated?

zilog_jones

seamus wrote: »

I would also expect that the NDLS don't take your foreign licence away. So when you do an exchange you will be given a new Irish licence and your old foreign licence back.

I know someone who exchanged their UK licence for Irish and was not given their UK licence back. This was probably long before the NDLS though...

Macy0161

I did this process last year. You don't get your UK Licence back. I think I lost one category, as there wasn't a metric/ irish equivalent. To keep all categories I needed to have the medical with the doctor. You get a reciept that does you until the new licence arrives.

jimgoose

It actually gets a little more painful. From https://www.ndls.ie/holders-of-foreign-licences.html#to-apply-to-exchange-a-foreign-driving-licence-issued-by-a-member-state-of-the-european-union-european-economic-area:

"Please note: Applications to exchange a licence may take 2/3 months to process as we need to contact the original licensing authority."

seamus

jimgoose wrote: »

It actually gets a little more painful. From https://www.ndls.ie/holders-of-foreign-licences.html#to-apply-to-exchange-a-foreign-driving-licence-issued-by-a-member-state-of-the-european-union-european-economic-area:

"Please note: Applications to exchange a licence may take 2/3 months to process as we need to contact the original licensing authority."

Realistically the Gardai are not going to take a hard line on this from day 1, and the courts are not going to prosecute anyone who's been unlucky enough to be caught up in it.

Your entitlement to swap your UK licence for an Irish one would be legally sufficient for your insurance to remain valid.

So provided that you have your receipt and at least a good quality photocopy of your UK licence, then this won't be a problem for you. It's the guy who's still driving on his UK licence in August that'll get into hot water.

jimgoose

seamus wrote: »

Realistically the Gardai are not going to take a hard line on this from day 1, and the courts are not going to prosecute anyone who's been unlucky enough to be caught up in it.

Your entitlement to swap your UK licence for an Irish one would be legally sufficient for your insurance to remain valid.

So provided that you have your receipt and at least a good quality photocopy of your UK licence, then this won't be a problem for you. It's the guy who's still driving on his UK licence in August that'll get into hot water.

Oh I quite agree, it's just a big pain in the arse for anyone caught by it.

hi5

jimgoose wrote: »

It actually gets a little more painful. From https://www.ndls.ie/holders-of-foreign-licences.html#to-apply-to-exchange-a-foreign-driving-licence-issued-by-a-member-state-of-the-european-union-european-economic-area:

"Please note: Applications to exchange a licence may take 2/3 months to process as we need to contact the original licensing authority."

I'm going to France in May for a weekend where I have a rental car booked, will they accept a receipt from the NDLS?

Squidgy Black

hi5 wrote: »

I'm going to France in May for a weekend where I have a rental car booked, will they accept a receipt from the NDLS?

International Driving Permit alongside your UK licence should suffice just in case.

Blisterman

For UK Residents in Ireland, will a UK licence along with international driving permit issued by the UK, allow me to keep driving when I'm in Ireland?

jimgoose

Blisterman wrote: »

For UK Residents in Ireland, will a UK licence along with international driving permit issued by the UK, allow me to keep driving when I'm in Ireland?

Hmm. Will an IDP, issued by the Irish authortity to a holder of a UK license resident in Ireland, cover driving in Ireland. That now, is a question for the NDLS, being the relevant competent authority, if I ever heard one!

Squidgy Black

Blisterman wrote: »

For UK Residents in Ireland, will a UK licence along with international driving permit issued by the UK, allow me to keep driving when I'm in Ireland?

If you're an Irish resident, no. IDP is for visitors only I believe.

hi5

Squidgy Black wrote: »

International Driving Permit alongside your UK licence should suffice just in case.

But the NDLS will have sent my UK licence back to DVLA.
And I have a feeling that it will be a lot longer than 2/3 months as DVLA will be flooded with UK licences for transfer from all over Europe.
What a mess.

Isambard

pawdee wrote: »

How is it a "ghost" Irish license? Mine is a UK license which is valid here. Valid in the UK until I'm 70. It says ceadunas tiomana on the front and all

as I understand it, if you get points but have a foreign license, they are allocated to a virtual license and are added to your Irish license should you ever get one.

lawred2

pawdee wrote: »

I don't know if this is in the right place but here's my question anyway.......

I've been driving on a UK license here in the ROI for the last 21 years or so. When I moved back from the UK in 1998 I went to my local Motor Tax office with form filled and cheque written ready to exchange for an Irish license. The lady in the office told me I'd be mad to change as my UK license is valid until I'm 70. So off I went and motored away since.

I presume that once the UK leave the EU my license is no longer valid? Does anyone know anything about this? Thanks in advance!

My wife exchanged hers. It's a simple process and it was done in a few weeks. I'd do it now while it's still recognised for exchange.

Macy0161

It only took a couple of weeks, if even, for my Irish licence to arrive. Definitely not 2/3 months. The biggest issue was getting into the NDLS tbh, and having to organise the time to get to the doctors (which may or may not relevant depending on classes you have or want to keep).

Once you have the list of documents required (a checklist is on the website), and are in front of the NDLS staff, it was a fairly pain free process in my experience and pretty efficient. Obviously there's going to be a rush on now (hence why I did it in the autumn!).

Squidgy Black

hi5 wrote: »

But the NDLS will have sent my UK licence back to DVLA.
And I have a feeling that it will be a lot longer than 2/3 months as DVLA will be flooded with UK licences for transfer from all over Europe.
What a mess.

I don't think they take your UK licence off you at the time of application, I'd say it's more when your licence is issued. I can't imagine them leaving people without a licence for 2 months or longer. Could be wrong though.

Wildly Boaring

Did it a few weeks ago.

1. Yep they keep your UK licence

2. I should have had 1 point on a ghost licence. None there

3. Took about 2 weeks

lawred2

Squidgy Black wrote: »

I don't think they take your UK licence off you at the time of application, I'd say it's more when your licence is issued. I can't imagine them leaving people without a licence for 2 months or longer. Could be wrong though.

They do take it.

Gregor Samsa

Blisterman wrote: »

For UK Residents in Ireland, will a UK licence along with international driving permit issued by the UK, allow me to keep driving when I'm in Ireland?

jimgoose wrote: »

Hmm. Will an IDP, issued by the Irish authortity to a holder of a UK license resident in Ireland, cover driving in Ireland. That now, is a question for the NDLS, being the relevant competent authority, if I ever heard one!

Squidgy Black wrote: »

If you're an Irish resident, no. IDP is for visitors only I believe.

International Driving Permit is only a translation of you licence, nothing more. You only need it going to a country (Like Japan or Russia) where the authorities may have trouble deciphering your actual licence. It's not in any way a solution to the matter at hand.

jimgoose

phutyle wrote: »

International Driving Permit is only a translation of you licence, nothing more. You only need it going to a country (Like Japan or Russia) where the authorities may have trouble deciphering your actual licence. It's not in any way a solution to the matter at hand.

Yes, that would be my thinking on it.

Blisterman

I should clarify.

I live in the UK, but do most of my driving when I'm in ireland, which is frequently.
I have a UK licence, and to cover eventualities, got an International Drivers Permit from the UK driving licence authorities.

I've never held any Irish licence, and as a non-resident in Ireland I believe I'm not entitled to one anyway.

My question is whether I will still be able to drive in Ireland in the case of a no-deal brexit?

Squidgy Black

Blisterman wrote: »

I should clarify.

I live in the UK, but do most of my driving when I'm in ireland, which is frequently.
I have a UK licence, and to cover eventualities, got an International Drivers Permit from the UK driving licence authorities.

I've never held any Irish licence, and as a non-resident in Ireland I believe I'm not entitled to one anyway.

My question is whether I will still be able to drive in Ireland in the case of a no-deal brexit?

Yes. The above only affects residents. Your UK licence will be seen as an international licence, similar to a US licence etc.

Charles Babbage

Blisterman wrote: »

I should clarify.

I live in the UK, but do most of my driving when I'm in ireland, which is frequently.
I have a UK licence, and to cover eventualities, got an International Drivers Permit from the UK driving licence authorities.

I've never held any Irish licence, and as a non-resident in Ireland I believe I'm not entitled to one anyway.

My question is whether I will still be able to drive in Ireland in the case of a no-deal brexit?

Yes. Your situation describes half the population of Fermanagh.

Blisterman

Squidgy Black wrote: »

Yes. The above only affects residents. Your UK licence will be seen as an international licence, similar to a US licence etc.

Thanks.
My concern now, is what will happen if I want to move back to Ireland in the future. I know Americans have to retake a driving test.

Is there any way you can exchange your licence if you're not resident in Ireland?

jimgoose

Blisterman wrote: »

Thanks.
My concern now, is what will happen if I want to move back to Ireland in the future. I know Americans have to retake a driving test.

Is there any way you can exchange your licence if you're not resident in Ireland?

It's all here:

https://www.ndls.ie/holders-of-foreign-licences.html#holders-of-driving-licences-from-other-countries

Here is the official information for UK drivers domiciled in UK. So you can continue to drive in Ireland without restrictions but need to exchange if you are resident here.

Here is a well written article about the requirements.

seamus

Blisterman wrote: »

Thanks.
My concern now, is what will happen if I want to move back to Ireland in the future. I know Americans have to retake a driving test.

At the moment that's uncertain.

It's most likely that the UK licence will be added to the special list along with Switzerland and Australia, that will allow you to drive here for up to a year before you have to swap it. But that hasn't been done yet, and probably won't be done before Brexit.

So if you were to move here in April, chances are you'll have to start from scratch in order to comply with the law.

hi5

Blisterman wrote: »

Thanks.
My concern now, is what will happen if I want to move back to Ireland in the future. I know Americans have to retake a driving test.

Is there any way you can exchange your licence if you're not resident in Ireland?

Welcome to a No deal/ Crash out Brexit, nobody has any idea what will happen because no arrangements have been made.
The UK will be like a brand new country, it will have to apply for everything to every other country all over again.
In the mean time I expect a lot of common sense will have to prevail otherwise things will just collapse in a heap.

eusap

hi5 wrote: »

I'm going to France in May for a weekend where I have a rental car booked, will they accept a receipt from the NDLS?

Car rental companies request to see the driving licence, I fell foul to this when I switched from Paper Licence to card licence they would not take receipt as proof

jimgoose

hi5 wrote: »

I'm going to France in May for a weekend where I have a rental car booked, will they accept a receipt from the NDLS?

I wouldn't imagine so, no.

hi5

hi5 wrote: »

Welcome to a No deal/ Crash out Brexit, nobody has any idea what will happen because no arrangements have been made.
The UK will be like a brand new country, it will have to apply for everything to every other country all over again.
In the mean time I expect a lot of common sense will have to prevail otherwise things will just collapse in a heap.

It's a death by a thousand stings scenario but it will all work out in the end after hard work. There is a good discussion going on at the forum I linked earlier and many folk are writing off the summer 2019 as a lost case and will start to plan European driving holidays for the future summers instead. There are many questions about validity of car insurance policies for example if the UK crashes out.

But if you're UK permit holder living in Ireland definitely get the ball rolling to exchange your licence before the B-day to avoid future complications.

Squidgy Black

Blisterman wrote: »

Thanks.
My concern now, is what will happen if I want to move back to Ireland in the future. I know Americans have to retake a driving test.

Is there any way you can exchange your licence if you're not resident in Ireland?

It completely depends what happens with negotiations between Ireland and the UK. There could be an agreement put in place, similar to some provinces in Canada, and Australia, where you can do a direct exchange, or else it could be a case that you have to start from scratch and do driving lessons and sit the test.

The joys of the Brexit disaster.

R.O.R

Printed the form out and have an appointment booked for the 12th March.

Never use any other categories except for B, so not really bothered about losing them.

Do you need a PSC to speed this up? Only photo ID I have is my (UK) passport. UK Drivers licence is the really old A4 paper one.

samjames

maybe hold off then in the hope that its all bluster and the politicians will come to their senses as a no deal Brexit is a disaster for eveyone

donkey balls

MascotDec85 wrote: »

I’m in the same boat. Here 18 years, still on my UK licence and also an ADI. In theory, on the 29th March my ability to work as a driving instructor would end.

My local MEP is Mairead McGuinness. She’s vice-president of the European Parliament. I contacted her regarding this recently and she said she’ll ask the Commission.

My understanding is this until I hear otherwise:
I’ve various categories including C1, D1 etc etc. these don’t expire until 2045. If I exchange it for an Irish licence i have to get a medical every 5 years to keep the categories active rather than the 10 years that currently exist.

Its an EU directive regarding the 5 years on the truck & bus license regardless of what country you reside in, As for swapping licenses with other countries or people from EU countries coming to work here.
It has always been the case that a driver may use their foreign license up to 12 months before having to exchange it to an Irish one, Although there was something in the legislation regarding UK issued licenses that were exempt from it.