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NFL Protest Discussion

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    #242
    Jolly Red Giant
    Registered Users Posts: 3,434 ✭✭✭Jolly Red Giant


    munstermagic11 wrote: »
    Wasn't that shown to be false and just a attempt by some to muddy the water for their cause? I thought he came out and denied it himself.

    Tebow was constantly kneeling down and praying during games - this was the 3rd qtr in the play-off game against the Steelers

    12142011_14letters1-8127105.jpg

    This was a week later before the play-off game against the Pats

    636640766870522997-tebow0608.JPG?width=1080&quality=50

    Tebow claims he never knelt during the anthem - he probably didn't - but I am sure that people are scouring through every game he ever played trying to find out if he did (and good luck to them - I wouldn't bother).

    The difference between Tebow and Kaepernick - is that Tebow was constantly invoking religion - it was 'in your face' type stuff. Kaepernick's protest was never of the same character - he was not attempting to be an evangelist - his first protest was sitting in the background during a pre-season game. In fact - he wasn't the only player to sit that day - apparently the Seahawks Jeremy Lane sat beside him. Unlike Kaepernick - Lane (who also engaged in further protests) continued to play for the Seahawks - the Texans even traded for him in 2017 only for the trade to be void because Lane was injured.

    It is also worth nothing that many players and coaching staff on the sidelines constantly do things other than stand for the anthem - as seen from this photo. But then again, the issue isn't that you fail to stand and 'respect' - its that you are willing to protest against injustice.

    5c575ca02951e6bb3742e468d4b7bf2d.jpg


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    #243
    Foxtrol
    Registered Users Posts: 11,101 ✭✭✭✭Foxtrol


    Ford came out supporting the rights of players to protest how the see fit. Look forward to some videos of hillbillies setting their pickup trucks on fire


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    #244
    Billy86
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,495 ✭✭✭✭Billy86


    To be fair, the Tebow anthem protest of abortions story is false - https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/tim-tebow-kneel-anthem

    Shame he didn't make it in a way, the Jesus-offs between him and Russell Wilson would be absolutely epic.


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    #245
    Billy86
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,495 ✭✭✭✭Billy86


    Nike sales up 31% since taking on Kaepernick. Their stock is also right back where it was

    https://www.nbcnews.com/business/business-news/what-boycott-nike-sales-are-31-percent-kaepernick-campaign-n908251

    And I absolutely guarantee some of those were from people who tore up or burned their stuff and then almost immediately went out to buy more. :pac:


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    #246
    j8wk2feszrnpao
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,438 ✭✭✭j8wk2feszrnpao


    Billy86 wrote: »
    Nike sales up 31% since taking on Kaepernick. Their stock is also right back where it was

    https://www.nbcnews.com/business/business-news/what-boycott-nike-sales-are-31-percent-kaepernick-campaign-n908251

    And I absolutely guarantee some of those were from people who tore up or burned their stuff and then almost immediately went out to buy more. :pac:
    Wasn't there a report that he's been with them since ~2012?
    I know it's Labor Day weekend sales, but Nike knew it wasn't going to hurt them.
    Just as there are fools who'll burn stuff, there are fools that buy stuff at $175 https://kaepernick7.com/collections/...roducts/jersey


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    #247
    Billy86
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,495 ✭✭✭✭Billy86


    munstermagic11 wrote: »
    Wasn't there a report that he's been with them since ~2012?
    I know it's Labor Day weekend sales, but Nike knew it wasn't going to hurt them.
    Just as there are fools who'll burn stuff, there are fools that buy stuff at $175 https://kaepernick7.com/collections/...roducts/jersey

    Not that I'm aware of - the NFL has been with Nike since 2012 but no sign of Kaepernick from a Google search. And even if he were, nobody has been aware of it until a week or two back with said ad which is what the article was highlighting: Nike sales jumped by 31 percent after debuting quarterback-turned-activist Colin Kaepernick as a new company spokesman — and market observers say the president’s public displays of anger may have backfired by drawing more attention to Nike.

    Labor Day weekend also does not account for a 31% increase in sales, especially for a product that apparently is being boycotted. Adidas stock went down a similar level to Nike's at the same time, but has not recovered. This is similar to when the same crowd smashed up the Keurig coffee machines only to then have the guy they were smashing them on behalf of go and buy them hundreds of new ones. End result: Keurig made a nice little bit of change and had a sales boost directly thanks to the same people who smashed theirs up as an act of (wait for it...) protest.

    (wouldn't work as a link, so embedded)
    https://twitter.com/seanhannity/status/944051859479777280

    I also think the $175 jersey thing is a big missed opportunity on his part and a dumb price point. If he sold them at the same price as regular NFL jerseys (which seems to be about $80-100) he could have really got one over on the NFL by having hundreds of those in the stands every week. So a missed opportunity there, but a huge win for Nike and Kaepernick at the expense of the NFL and in no small part due to Donald Trump's attempts to influence things in the other direction.


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    #248
    j8wk2feszrnpao
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,438 ✭✭✭j8wk2feszrnpao


    Billy86 wrote: »
    Labor Day weekend also does not account for a 31% increase in sales
    The article I saw said it was over the Labor Day extended weekend.
    Billy86 wrote: »
    So a missed opportunity there, but a huge win for Nike and Kaepernick at the expense of the NFL
    I don't think the NFL is doing too badly.

    The article I saw kinda summed this all up really. Two years later the discussion is about Kap, protesting, the flag, the military, Trump, Nike........ and the actually issue not getting the coverage.


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    #249
    Billy86
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,495 ✭✭✭✭Billy86


    munstermagic11 wrote: »
    The article I saw said it was over the Labor Day extended weekend.
    Yes, but it also says that last year by comparison the jump was 17% - so it basically doubled the jump of last year despite there apparently being a boycott going on. Labor Day weekend does mean a bump in sales, but only about half of the 31% bump Nike just saw.
    I don't think the NFL is doing too badly.

    The article I saw kinda summed this all up really. Two years later the discussion is about Kap, protesting, the flag, the military, Trump, Nike........ and the actually issue not getting the coverage.
    You're right that the NFL is doing pretty great all in all - the talk of "falling TV ratings" is gibberish because of the likes of Gamepass and other similar setups, which have NFL breaking record revenue year on year.

    I'm also not surprised to see a lack of coverage on the issue as it's something a large amount of anti-protesters simply do not want to acknowledge and are hostile towards having pointed out to them, and then you have the US President breaking the laws of his own country while also making it into a large political issue to distract from his own unfortunate headlines.

    This is often the case with protests, that those against them want to deal with everything but the issue itself - hence why those protesting have felt the need to resort to doing so. Sometimes the issue does not get addressed and sometimes it does, but in the case of the latter it often takes a long time for that to happen.


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    #250
    TOss Sweep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,905 ✭✭✭TOss Sweep


    Didn't go as well as they though it would those boycotting and Burning Nike stuff

    Nike stock hits all-time high, sparking climb in corporate value of roughly $5 billion since Kaepernick deal was announced

    https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/09/14/nike-stock-closes-at-a-record-high/

    Can't be attributed to the KAp thing definitively but seen as those who hate Kap used the 3% decrease we might as well use their argument back against them


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    #251
    Foxtrol
    Registered Users Posts: 11,101 ✭✭✭✭Foxtrol


    Kaepernick settled with the NFL and looks like he got paid...

    https://twitter.com/mikefreemanNFL/status/1096495453548564480


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    #252
    D9Male
    Registered Users Posts: 1,644 ✭✭✭D9Male


    Fair play to Kaep. I like it when good guys win.


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    #253
    Billy86
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,495 ✭✭✭✭Billy86


    No collusion, no collusion. :pac:

    Good on him though, he thoroughly deserves it and I doubt the prosecution ever needed to do more than just play every snap taken by Brett Hundley in 2017 to confirm that.


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    #254
    j8wk2feszrnpao
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,438 ✭✭✭j8wk2feszrnpao


    D9Male wrote: »
    Fair play to Kaep. I like it when good guys win.
    When I saw the news, I actually thought the NFL won. Even at the top figure of $80m, they've made this go away for peanuts for them. In the end, both sides settled, so not sure who won.


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    #255
    raze_them_all_
    Registered Users Posts: 6,744 ✭✭✭raze_them_all_


    munstermagic11 wrote: »
    When I saw the news, I actually thought the NFL won. Even at the top figure of $80m, they've made this go away for peanuts for them. In the end, both sides settled, so not sure who won.

    The nfl gave up trying to win once someone traded for flacco!


    He won I imagine and it will be seen that way. They paid someone to stop going to court. They knew they'd lose


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    #256
    j8wk2feszrnpao
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,438 ✭✭✭j8wk2feszrnpao


    raze_them_all_ wrote: »
    They knew they'd lose
    Then why did Kaep settle? He could have gotten more maybe, and won in court to strengthen the outcome in his favor?
    All we actually know is that they both settled, with no view of the actual details; it could be that Kaep wasn't sure he'd win and so settled.


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    #257
    raze_them_all_
    Registered Users Posts: 6,744 ✭✭✭raze_them_all_


    munstermagic11 wrote: »
    Then why did Kaep settle? He could have gotten more maybe, and won in court to strengthen the outcome in his favor?
    All we actually know is that they both settled, with no view of the actual details; it could be that Kaep wasn't sure he'd win and so settled.

    Because civil suits in America can be dragged on for a decade with a massive bill for the suing party.


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    #258
    j8wk2feszrnpao
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,438 ✭✭✭j8wk2feszrnpao


    raze_them_all_ wrote: »
    Because civil suits in America can be dragged on for a decade with a massive bill for the suing party.
    There’s a bill for both parties. If Kaep was sure to win, he’d get costs as well.

    All we actually know is that both parties settled. I assume Kaep got some good money, and the NFL make it go away. Seems more of a win for the NFL to me, collusion case is no more.


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    #259
    Ivefoundgod
    Registered Users Posts: 2,433 ✭✭✭Ivefoundgod


    Twitter saying around 60-80m for Kaep. I would call that a win for him, unlikely he would have earned much more in salary in the last few years and the fact the NFL paid him that shows they knew the jig was up.


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    #260
    eagle eye
    Registered Users Posts: 37,860 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    So Kaepernick accepts a big settlement and it's all hush, hush and people are happy about it.?
    I thought this wasn't about money, thought it was about black kids and the cops?
    So because Kaepernick gets his money it doesn't matter anymore?
    Basically he has accepted a settlement offer and it is all about him. People got conned by an athlete yet again.


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    #261
    Foxtrol
    Registered Users Posts: 11,101 ✭✭✭✭Foxtrol


    eagle eye wrote: »
    So Kaepernick accepts a big settlement and it's all hush, hush and people are happy about it.?
    I thought this wasn't about money, thought it was about black kids and the cops?
    So because Kaepernick gets his money it doesn't matter anymore?
    Basically he has accepted a settlement offer and it is all about him. People got conned by an athlete yet again.

    I'm not sure where you are getting that the cause he protested for doesn't matter anymore. You're conflating two separate things there, as his protest during the anthem has nothing to do with settling here.

    The lawsuit was essentially demanding lost earnings from the league and from all reports he's gotten that and more. What would have been the better result from taking it to trial? If anything there could be more in this settlement to benefit his cause than anything a judge could give.

    I do wonder where all those posters are that were so adamant that he had absolutely no case and that he'd be laughed out of court.


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    #262
    raze_them_all_
    Registered Users Posts: 6,744 ✭✭✭raze_them_all_


    eagle eye wrote: »
    So Kaepernick accepts a big settlement and it's all hush, hush and people are happy about it.?
    I thought this wasn't about money, thought it was about black kids and the cops?
    So because Kaepernick gets his money it doesn't matter anymore?
    Basically he has accepted a settlement offer and it is all about him. People got conned by an athlete yet again.
    He was blacklisted and kept out of the league for his political beliefs. That is what the lawsuit was over. And he very clearly was. Some of the back ups in the league are easily worse than him


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    #263
    eagle eye
    Registered Users Posts: 37,860 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    Foxtrol wrote:
    I do wonder where all those posters are that were so adamant that he had absolutely no case and that he'd be laughed out of court.
    Well I'd be one of those that didn't think he had a case because he had lost his way and become a poor QB before the kneeling started.


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    #264
    eagle eye
    Registered Users Posts: 37,860 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    raze_them_all_ wrote:
    He was blacklisted and kept out of the league for his political beliefs. That is what the lawsuit was over. And he very clearly was. Some of the back ups in the league are easily worse than him
    Well and if I was a coach I wouldn't have signed him for two reasons, firstly because he was no good and secondly because if the potential for locker room conflict because of the kneeling.
    I don't think anybody could take a case against you over that because it's just good management.


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    #265
    Foxtrol
    Registered Users Posts: 11,101 ✭✭✭✭Foxtrol


    eagle eye wrote: »
    Well I'd be one of those that didn't think he had a case because he had lost his way and become a poor QB before the kneeling started.

    So I take from your lack of response to my other points that you also accept that you were talking out of your arse regarding the connection between accepting the settlement and the wider cause he was protesting


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    #266
    eagle eye
    Registered Users Posts: 37,860 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    Foxtrol wrote:
    So I take from your lack of response to my other points that you also accept that you were talking out of your arse regarding the connection between accepting the settlement and the wider cause he was protesting
    I'm saying it might all have been a con job to get a nice payday.


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    #267
    Foxtrol
    Registered Users Posts: 11,101 ✭✭✭✭Foxtrol


    eagle eye wrote: »
    I'm saying it might all have been a con job to get a nice payday.

    You've really moved into tin foil hat territory there.

    Pretty big risk he was taking running a 'con' over 2.5 years while giving away a lot of money to charity during that period, especially when you claimed he didn't have a case to begin with.


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    #268
    raze_them_all_
    Registered Users Posts: 6,744 ✭✭✭raze_them_all_


    eagle eye wrote: »
    Well I'd be one of those that didn't think he had a case because he had lost his way and become a poor QB before the kneeling started.

    Blake bortles has a job. To this day.


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    #269
    jack presley
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,687 ✭✭✭✭jack presley


    raze_them_all_ wrote: »
    Blake bortles has a job. To this day.

    2 teams have had Nathan Peterman on their roster too.


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    #270
    j8wk2feszrnpao
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,438 ✭✭✭j8wk2feszrnpao


    raze_them_all_ wrote: »
    He was blacklisted and kept out of the league for his political beliefs.
    He was offered some deals I believe (Bronco’s), but wasn’t happy with the money. Reported to have wanted $20m to play in the AAF when approached. Ravens went for him, but fans went nuts. So he wasn’t exactly blacklisted.

    With the Nike money and now this payoff, IMO he’s taken the money first and foremost. Totally up to him, but he hasn’t really suffered much and not the martyr some portray him as.

    I personally do think he was at least good enough to be a backup for a number of teams; but he’s nowhere near the player he was in his first few years.

    But he now has the chance to really make a difference and go down the political avenue if he so desires.


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    #271
    eagle eye
    Registered Users Posts: 37,860 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    raze_them_all_ wrote:
    Blake bortles has a job. To this day.
    Bortles is better than him and that's not saying much for either of them.


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