Resign and Get A Reference or Fight For My Job?

Mark25 · 15-02-2019 06:09PM #1

I've been working in my job for 8 months and have been doing well with my targets and got a good review after 6 months. Today I got told that because of something from before the job I was asked to resign. They said I would get a good reference for the job I did while I was there. I have to let them know on Monday but if I don't I think its pretty much certain I will get sacked.

I like the job and the people I work with and think what's happening is unfair but I don't really think there is much I can do about it.

Anybody been in a situation like this or know someone who has or have any advice?

gandalf · 15-02-2019 06:34PM

I'm assuming this is something that you did or were involved in before taking up the role? It really depends on your role, if it's public and what the issue is. If it is so serious that they think they can fire you outright then I'd suggest you talk to an employment law solicitor if you want to stay on.

Mark25 · 15-02-2019 07:42PM

Yes it was a past conviction that I didnt disclose but I wasnt asked directly about it either.

Should say that am on a 12 month probationary period with the job so dont think I have any real rights so font think a solicitor could really help and probably be a waste of money

EverythingGood · 15-02-2019 09:33PM

Was in a position before many years ago where I had a stupid offence that I didn't disclose, it became known they asked me about it, I was very frank and truthful and pled innocenceof youth and asked they judge me on my personality now and my record with them. I kept my job. My advice, be upfront and frank. Talk to someone more senior than your direct line manager. If you're a good person and they can see, they'll keep you. Ask for extended probation or demotion even. Proof to them that you deserve your job. I wish you the very best.

OMM 0000 · 16-02-2019 10:18AM

Sorry to hear this.

They've asked you to resign. That means they've had a meeting about it, and come to that conclusion.

If I were you I'd try to make a deal with them. For example:

"Is it possible to give me 6 weeks notice so I have enough time to find a new job? I have x commitments and this really is unexpected".

Something like that.

Strumms · 17-02-2019 01:41AM

When you say you were not asked about it ‘directly’ ? If you marked on an application form incorrectly that you had NO conviction or indeed implied the same in an interview then you probably need to resign or talk it over with them, pleading ignorance etc.... however if they did not attempt to solicit this information and are only acting now having found this information then hold your ground and consult with a solicitor specializing in employment law. I wouldn’t let them off.

Jim2007 · 17-02-2019 02:46AM

Mark25 wrote: »

I like the job and the people I work with and think what's happening is unfair but I don't really think there is much I can do about it.

You are right it is unfair! It’s unfair to your employer and to the person who would have got the job had you not conned your way into it in the first place.

You seem to fail to appreciate the seriousness of the situation. People do not like to be taken for a fool and furthermore people do not like to work with people they don’t trust. Clearly they have made a decision and it is now only a question of how it will happen...

twowheelsonly · 17-02-2019 02:57AM

Jim2007 wrote: »

You are right it is unfair! It’s unfair to your employer and to the person who would have got the job had you not conned your way into it in the first place.

You seem to fail to appreciate the seriousness of the situation. People do not like to be taken for a fool and furthermore people do not like to work with people they don’t trust. Clearly they have made a decision and it is now only a question of how it will happen...

That's a very big assumption.

We don't know what the conviction was for and we don't know the full details of his application or interview but you've branded him a con-man on top of his previous conviction !!

OP, can you give any more details such as the type of conviction / sentence, how long ago it was and whether or not you were asked anything pertaining to convictions in your application or interview ? This could determine the best course of action for you to take.

s7ryf3925pivug · 17-02-2019 03:06AM

Best thing is to be gracious and write a nice resignation mail thanks for the oppurtunity great working with you yadda yadda yadda. They're being nice enough letting you quit and offering a reference. Your bigger problem is about reputation/image - be very careful about it.

Jim2007 · 17-02-2019 08:22AM

twowheelsonly wrote: »

That's a very big assumption.

We don't know what the conviction was for and we don't know the full details of his application or interview but you've branded him a con-man on top of his previous conviction !!
.

It does not matter what the conviction was for, you cannot change the fact that the position was obtained by deception no matter how you try to dress it up. And that is the point, you can either trust someone or you can’t, very few managers are going to back an employee in such a situation because if it goes wrong again it will be on them as well. The fact that the OP was given the option to resign is a clear indication of this.

jon1981 · 17-02-2019 08:28AM

I do find it odd how the OP could have explained the gap on his cv while he was in prison.

OP was there really no probing of your work history and not even a little white lie?

dudara · 17-02-2019 08:37AM

Jim2007 wrote: »

It does not matter what the conviction was for, you cannot change the fact that the position was obtained by deception no matter how you try to dress it up.

But was it obtained by deception? You’re making a big assumption here and potentially mislabeling someone. Until the OP tells us more details on the recruitment process, we don’t know. So stop assuming.

@jon1981 - not every convinction means prison time. Again, we need more info from the OP before making any assumptions.

listermint · 17-02-2019 08:43AM

Jim2007 wrote: »

You are right it is unfair! It’s unfair to your employer and to the person who would have got the job had you not conned your way into it in the first place.

You seem to fail to appreciate the seriousness of the situation. People do not like to be taken for a fool and furthermore people do not like to work with people they don’t trust. Clearly they have made a decision and it is now only a question of how it will happen...

Hi jim.

You've put seven and seven together and got 900. You don't know the ins and outs of the ops job. You don't know the interview process and you don't know what forms they filled out.

They already indicated they were not asked about it. And I don't know about you, but do you go around telling everyone about your past indiscretions regardless if they ask you or not. I doubt it.

So a bit of cop on here about saying anyone was deceived.

vectorvictor · 17-02-2019 08:43AM

Just remember that if you resign you will not be eligible for social welfare for over two months as you "voluntarily" left the job - don't be afraid to tell them that up front so they know you are not being deliberately awkward.

Given that you are there a relatively short period and a reference won't be of huge value, I'd be inclined to plead your case but then let them "do the deed" if that is unsuccessful

I've purposely left the rights and wrongs of what has happened out as you don't need that now, you need to get practical to protect yourself

Or try and achieve both - offer them a written declaration that you will waive your rights to any future claim against the company if they give you a termination letter and a nice reference.

manonboard · 17-02-2019 08:48AM

Resign op.
They've had meetings about this n talked to HR about it.
The company has made the decision.

Bring in a very gracious resignation letter. Go have a meeting n be direct n ensure phone references are available, n instead of notice. Some headed paper with a nice reference if possible.

It'll make it much easier to find a new job. You might also get a raise from current salary.

Don't bother fighting it because you'll likely lose n be in a place with bad blood each day until they sack you.

Just focus on the future n taking care of yourself. New job. New salary. New skill advancement.

Best of luck.

Ollibelo · 17-02-2019 09:24AM

vectorvictor wrote: »

Just remember that if you resign you will not be eligible for social welfare for over two months as you "voluntarily" left the job - don't be afraid to tell them that up front so they know you are not being deliberately awkward.

Given that you are there a relatively short period and a reference won't be of huge value, I'd be inclined to plead your case but then let them "do the deed" if that is unsuccessful

I've purposely left the rights and wrongs of what has happened out as you don't need that now, you need to get practical to protect yourself

Or try and achieve both - offer them a written declaration that you will waive your rights to any future claim against the company if they give you a termination letter and a nice reference.

This is the most practical advice right here

Jim2007 · 17-02-2019 09:56AM

listermint wrote: »

Hi jim.

You've put seven and seven together and got 900. You don't know the ins and outs of the ops job. You don't know the interview process and you don't know what forms they filled out.

They already indicated they were not asked about it. And I don't know about you, but do you go around telling everyone about your past indiscretions regardless if they ask you or not. I doubt it.

So a bit of cop on here about saying anyone was deceived.

dudara wrote: »

But was it obtained by deception? You’re making a big assumption here and potentially mislabeling someone. Until the OP tells us more details on the recruitment process, we don’t know. So stop assuming.

@jon1981 - not every convinction means prison time. Again, we need more info from the OP before making any assumptions.

Like I said you can attempt to dress it up anyway that you like, you can make all the excuses you like etc., but the fact remains the OP had an undisclosed conviction for which his employer has given him the option of resigning. Clearly their employer considers it serious enough to bring their relationship to an end.

dudara · 17-02-2019 10:38AM

Jim2007 wrote: »

Like I said you can attempt to dress it up anyway that you like, you can make all the excuses you like etc., but the fact remains the OP had an undisclosed conviction for which his employer has given him the option of resigning. Clearly their employer considers it serious enough to bring their relationship to an end.

You’re missing my point - did the employer request disclosure of previous convictions? If they didn’t, then the OP did not deceive anyone. If such a thing is important to the employer, then it should be asked as part of their application process.

17-02-2019 11:38AM

Mark25 wrote: »

Yes it was a past conviction that I didnt disclose but I wasnt asked directly about it either.

Op, it really depends on what type of crime you were convicted of, whether it may reflect badly on your employer to have you working there, and what they did ask you are interview.

Taking the last point first, you said they didn’t ask you “directly”, can we take it from that, there was some reference to previous convictions and that it is open to interpretation? What exactly did they ask you?

But the real issue here is the type and seriousness of the crime and whether for instance it was reported in the media. Would someone who typed your name and area into google read a media report of a court case?

Being convicted of a petty crime is very different from being convicted of drug possession/GBH/theft from your employer/drunk driving causing an accident etc.

So op, are we talking about a serious crime which is on the first page of google when someone searches for you, or is it a minor misdemeanour which requires a good deal of digging to find any record of?

Phoebas · 17-02-2019 11:52AM

OP, remember that we had spent convictions legislation introduced here recently, so depending on what your conviction was for and when you were convicted, you may be fully within your rights not to disclose it.

Mark25 · 17-02-2019 03:54PM

EverythingGood wrote: »

Was in a position before many years ago where I had a stupid offence that I didn't disclose, it became known they asked me about it, I was very frank and truthful and pled innocenceof youth and asked they judge me on my personality now and my record with them. I kept my job. My advice, be upfront and frank. Talk to someone more senior than your direct line manager. If you're a good person and they can see, they'll keep you. Ask for extended probation or demotion even. Proof to them that you deserve your job. I wish you the very best.

Thanks. Glad to hear it worked out for you. I was totally honest with them on Friday and hoped that they would judge me on how I have been since I was working with them but think they have made their decision.

twowheelsonly wrote: »

That's a very big assumption.

We don't know what the conviction was for and we don't know the full details of his application or interview but you've branded him a con-man on top of his previous conviction !!

OP, can you give any more details such as the type of conviction / sentence, how long ago it was and whether or not you were asked anything pertaining to convictions in your application or interview ? This could determine the best course of action for you to take.

In 2013 I got a 2 year prison sentence for Assault Causing Harm with other charges taken into account. Not proud of it but I was a different person back then. When I got out I went back to college in 2015 and graduated with a degree last year.

jon1981 wrote: »

I do find it odd how the OP could have explained the gap on his cv while he was in prison.

OP was there really no probing of your work history and not even a little white lie?

I had done a CV for the appplication and had part time work when I was in college. I had been working before prison and then put down that I was unemployed for the time I was in prison so technically true. I had gone for other interviews before where I got directly asked about convictions and told them but I didnt get any of those jobs so was happy that it didnt come up directly in this interview. I suppose it wasnt that unusual to be unemployed back then and it explained why I would have gone back to college.

listermint wrote: »

Hi jim.

You've put seven and seven together and got 900. You don't know the ins and outs of the ops job. You don't know the interview process and you don't know what forms they filled out.

They already indicated they were not asked about it. And I don't know about you, but do you go around telling everyone about your past indiscretions regardless if they ask you or not. I doubt it.

So a bit of cop on here about saying anyone was deceived.

Its not something I would be wanting to tell an employer about. I know its part of my background but people will always hold it against me. Its a job in a call centre type set up which I thought would be good as a first step after a degree given my background.

vectorvictor wrote: »

Just remember that if you resign you will not be eligible for social welfare for over two months as you "voluntarily" left the job - don't be afraid to tell them that up front so they know you are not being deliberately awkward.

Given that you are there a relatively short period and a reference won't be of huge value, I'd be inclined to plead your case but then let them "do the deed" if that is unsuccessful

I've purposely left the rights and wrongs of what has happened out as you don't need that now, you need to get practical to protect yourself

Or try and achieve both - offer them a written declaration that you will waive your rights to any future claim against the company if they give you a termination letter and a nice reference.

I didnt know hat about social welfare. Thats something I need to think about then. Suppose if the worst happens I'm lucky that there are jobs out there at the moment though it would take a while to get something especially with the problem of my record.

Mark25 · 17-02-2019 04:05PM

Dav010 wrote: »

Op, it really depends on what type of crime you were convicted of, whether it may reflect badly on your employer to have you working there, and what they did ask you are interview.

Taking the last point first, you said they didn’t ask you “directly”, can we take it from that, there was some reference to previous convictions and that it is open to interpretation? What exactly did they ask you?

But the real issue here is the type and seriousness of the crime and whether for instance it was reported in the media. Would someone who typed your name and area into google read a media report of a court case?

Being convicted of a petty crime is very different from being convicted of drug possession/GBH/theft from your employer/drunk driving causing an accident etc.

So op, are we talking about a serious crime which is on the first page of google when someone searches for you, or is it a minor misdemeanour which requires a good deal of digging to find any record of?

Yeah it was a serious case I know that but as I said before I am a different person now and it doesnt affect how I can do my job.

The case doesnt come up straight away if you put in my name but there is a report online about it if you look hard enough. I had told somebody I thought I could trust about it but found out I couldnt really.

Phoebas wrote: »

OP, remember that we had spent convictions legislation introduced here recently, so depending on what your conviction was for and when you were convicted, you may be fully within your rights not to disclose it.

That wouldn't apply to me as it is less than 7 years since conviction but also the sentence was too long for it to be ever spent. So Ihave this for life unless they change the rules.

17-02-2019 04:43PM

That is really unfortunate. You made a mistake, paid your debt to society and had the determination to go back to college and get a degree. You deserve a chance and you are probably more motivated than many others to succeed.

Next time you will be less trusting of work colleagues with justification. Unless you are asked, I wouldn’t mention it either. Good luck with the next job, this one is narrow minded.

twowheelsonly · 17-02-2019 10:31PM

Sounds to me like you're better off out of there. Fair enough, you got that sentence but essentially you're one of those that 'did the crime, did the time' and have re-invented yourself since. Personally I'd give you more kudos for that than black marks for the crime. If the company / someone in the company can't see that then they're always going to be looking down at you. Most people couldn't give a toss but it's unfortunate for you that this came out before you were there a little longer.

I'm a Prison Officer and we bump into fellas outside all the time. There's enough repeat offenders to keep us going for a while yet so we're happy out to see fellas doing well, in particular the habitual fellas that have eventually turned things around against all the odds.

Best of luck with this one anyway.. Don't give it up too easy, explain to them that you understand where they're coming from but that this is going to affect you with regards to SW and getting a new job. Someone else mentioned asking for 6 or 8 weeks grace in order to try to source a new job. This might not be a bad idea.

s7ryf3925pivug · 18-02-2019 04:00AM

Oh I thought you lied about it but it looks like you didn't. Doesn't seem hugely relevant to call centre work. Worth getting legal advice so you know where you stand now and if this comes up in future... Dont tell anyone you work with again (except where required to).

Mrs OBumble · 18-02-2019 09:51AM

Arabella Lemon Milk wrote: »

Oh I thought you lied about it but it looks like you didn't. Doesn't seem hugely relevant to call centre work. Worth getting legal advice so you know where you stand now and if this comes up in future... Dont tell anyone you work with again (except where required to).

It may be highly relevant, depending on the type of sensitive information you have access to, and also the type of staffing, shift patterns and hours: would you want to be alone in a building with someone who did a serious assault only six years ago?

listermint · 18-02-2019 09:56AM

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

It may be highly relevant, depending on the type of sensitive information you have access to, and also the type of staffing, shift patterns and hours: would you want to be alone in a building with someone who did a serious assault only six years ago?

I wouldnt care frankly, because like you i dont have a clue about the ins and outs of the case. If you had a family member that got in an altercation with someone and probably defended themselves would you want them black listed for life.

yeah thought not.

Oh but wait, knowing you 'sure this could never happen to me'

I don't know the OP and i dont know the details. What i do know is jumping to conclusions makes a mockery of an individuals intelligence. So id suggest you dont do it.

sbsquarepants · 18-02-2019 09:59AM

There is absolutely no requirement on you to disclose your history to your job. You weren't working there at the time, it's really not any of their business.

The problem is if they asked you, "do you have any criminal convictions" and you said "no". They've clear grounds to dismiss you right there. If it's a thing that they just didn't think to ask, and you just didn't volunteer the information well then that's just their mistake and they may live with it. The exception I suppose is if the conviction somehow prevents you from doing the job - i.e. you can't get security clearance to work in the airport or something along those lines.

seamus · 18-02-2019 10:17AM

sbsquarepants wrote: »

There is absolutely no requirement on you to disclose your history to your job. You weren't working there at the time, it's really not any of their business.

Yeah, but now that they've found out and he's in the job less than a year he's stuck between a rock and a hard place. They can still let him go even though he did nothing wrong.

Bit late now for the OP, but I'd be inclined to go with a mix of the advice on this thread:

- Argue your point that you were never asked about past convictions, therefore didn't see the need to mention

- Plead that you enjoy working there, you're getting on with your co-workers and ask them to judge you on your performance there

- If there's no moving them, then see if they'd be willing to "officially" fire you, but also provide a reference, so that you can claim social welfare while you job hunt.

If your boss is asking you to resign, I wonder if he has discovered your conviction but hasn't said anything to HR, instead he's trying to see if you will walk away and then he doesn't have to deal with the issue.

Maybe if he has to officially fire you, HR will give him all sorts of sh1t and might stop him?

Mark25 · 19-02-2019 12:28AM

Thanks for all the advice everybody. Talked to my boss today and had an OK chat with him, Was calm but said I thought I was being treated unfairly because I didnt think I had done anything wrong but realised I was still on probation and had no real comeback but asked for a proper meeting with HR io discuss the options and they have agreed to that. So not all lost yet.

seamus wrote: »

Yeah, but now that they've found out and he's in the job less than a year he's stuck between a rock and a hard place. They can still let him go even though he did nothing wrong.

Bit late now for the OP, but I'd be inclined to go with a mix of the advice on this thread:

- Argue your point that you were never asked about past convictions, therefore didn't see the need to mention

- Plead that you enjoy working there, you're getting on with your co-workers and ask them to judge you on your performance there

- If there's no moving them, then see if they'd be willing to "officially" fire you, but also provide a reference, so that you can claim social welfare while you job hunt.

If your boss is asking you to resign, I wonder if he has discovered your conviction but hasn't said anything to HR, instead he's trying to see if you will walk away and then he doesn't have to deal with the issue.

Maybe if he has to officially fire you, HR will give him all sorts of sh1t and might stop him?

You read the whole situation almost bang on

KaneToad · 19-02-2019 12:35AM

listermint wrote: »

I wouldnt care frankly, because like you i dont have a clue about the ins and outs of the case. If you had a family member that got in an altercation with someone and probably defended themselves would you want them black listed for life.

yeah thought not.

Oh but wait, knowing you 'sure this could never happen to me'

I don't know the OP and i dont know the details. What i do know is jumping to conclusions makes a mockery of an individuals intelligence. So id suggest you dont do it.

A court of the land, who did know all the details, decided on the guilt of the OP. Assault causing harm is a very serious crime.

Resign and Get A Reference or Fight For My Job?

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