Resign and Get A Reference or Fight For My Job?

twowheelsonly

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

It may be highly relevant, depending on the type of sensitive information you have access to, and also the type of staffing, shift patterns and hours: would you want to be alone in a building with someone who did a serious assault only six years ago?

Would you have any problem being alone in a building with someone who got a degree a year ago ?

KaneToad wrote: »

A court of the land, who did know all the details, decided on the guilt of the OP. Assault causing harm is a very serious crime.

It is indeed, but he did the crime and did the time so he has paid his debt to society. He has worked hard and come out the other side of it. He's a completely different person to the one he was or the one who did what he did.


Sometimes I despair when reading threads related to crime. Usually start of with, Hang Them, Deport Them, Castrate Them, Throw Away The Key type comments and then graduate into why prison does and doesn't work and how more should be done to rehabilitate prisoners and turn them into 'productive members of society'. Then when a fella does exactly that there's people that don't want him having a job or don't want to work alongside him. There's a strong touch of NIMBY about it.

In this instance the guy is being judged on one tiny facet of his life. I find it amazing that people will judge him more on a two to three minute spell of his life than the years he spent getting his degree. That's mad Ted !!!!

IITYWYBMAD

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

It may be highly relevant, depending on the type of sensitive information you have access to, and also the type of staffing, shift patterns and hours: would you want to be alone in a building with someone who did a serious assault only six years ago?

Here's a shock for you. You have absolutely no idea who you are sitting among in a work environment. Guess what rapists, murderers and pedophiles look like? Just have a look around that open plan, and you'll see.

The Irish penal system is built to punish and reform. Assault is a serious crime, with huge consequences for both the victim and the perp. I can take it as read that the OP has reformed, and looking at his responses here and his ability to educate himself, it appears that he will be a contributing member of society.

Mrs OBumble

IITYWYBMAD wrote: »

Here's a shock for you. You have absolutely no idea who you are sitting among in a work environment. Guess what rapists, murderers and pedophiles look like? Just have a look around that open plan, and you'll see.

The vetting requirements in my current job make that extremely unlikely. Less so for paedophiles, who are less likely to be convicted.

But the other thing is that I'd rarely be alone with just one colleague. More supervision arounds reduces the risks of inappropriate behaviour surfacing.

We have no idea what the OPs situationis like.

The OP may think that the events were a long time ago, but really six years is very little, degree or not in the meantime. Stay clean for 20 years and I'll believe it's a habit.

twowheelsonly

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

The vetting requirements in my current job make that extremely unlikely. Less so for paedophiles, who are less likely to be convicted.

But the other thing is that I'd rarely be alone with just one colleague. More supervision arounds reduces the risks of inappropriate behaviour surfacing.

We have no idea what the OPs situationis like.

The OP may think that the events were a long time ago, but really six years is very little, degree or not in the meantime. Stay clean for 20 years and I'll believe it's a habit.

Vetting is only a point in time. There is no way of knowing what people have done or been up to in the meantime. There is also no way of knowing if any person has been involved in any criminal act unless they have been caught, charged and convicted, or knowing what they do behind closed doors or in their own time, so vetting falls down in that regard. You only have to look at all the 'historical' sex cases that come before the courts to see that.

In this instance, the OP was working, committed an offence and was sentenced, served his time and obviously enough seems to have learned his lesson. If you told a judge his story he'd be delighted that the sentence imposed seems to have had a positive effect.

Six years is a long time depending on someone's age. As I stated before, I work in a prison and we get a lot of guys coming in from 18ish to around 23 or 24, doing 2, 3, 6 months or so, sometimes repeatedly. Then they get to an age, around that 23/24 mark, where we just never see them again. They're just a bit slower in copping on and getting on with their lives than the general population but most do cop on eventually. I'd hate to think that they'd still be getting judged for 20 years. At that rate copping on would be a waste of time as obviously to some people they'd still be regarded as unemployable. You have to give people a chance to see what they can do and let the stigma go...

BTW, you'd be amazed who ends up in prison. See Mrs Murphy down the road whose little darling is working in Australia but is too busy to post on Facebook ? He's in Castlerea doing 12 months.... Sounds exaggerated ? It's not...

joeguevara

Your reference will only give dates of employment. You might have been given a pig in a poke if they said you will get a great reference. Also what can in a short period.

Also the underlying issue will still be there. Either retrain or see if it can be explained. In financial institutions for certain positions you have to prove fitness and probity. Criminal convictions are assessed but not an automatic disbarr. Lying about them is.

Get advice. I don’t think you can fight for your job. Your under 12 months. Also if someone does do an oral reference it may be worse.

sbsquarepants

IITYWYBMAD wrote: »

Assault is a serious crime, with huge consequences for both the victim and the perp. .

Sometimes yes, but I'd say there are very few people out there who haven't "assaulted" somebody at some stage, it just never made it to court.
The vast majority of people have a row or two somewhere in their history, I know I certainly do and I'm in no way a danger to any poor unfortunate who finds themselves alone with me in work!

wench

seamus wrote: »

- If there's no moving them, then see if they'd be willing to "officially" fire you, but also provide a reference, so that you can claim social welfare while you job hunt.

Getting fired doesn't help with getting social welfare, you can still be disqualified for up to 9 weeks.


http://www.welfare.ie/en/Pages/jajbfaq.aspx#q11

Mark25

Thanks for all the help and advice. Finished up in the job yesterday and am starting to look for something else and have an appointment for Monday to see whats out there.

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

The vetting requirements in my current job make that extremely unlikely. Less so for paedophiles, who are less likely to be convicted.

But the other thing is that I'd rarely be alone with just one colleague. More supervision arounds reduces the risks of inappropriate behaviour surfacing.

We have no idea what the OPs situationis like.

The OP may think that the events were a long time ago, but really six years is very little, degree or not in the meantime. Stay clean for 20 years and I'll believe it's a habit.

You are entitled to your opinion but 6 years is a long time. I know I have done bad things in the past but I can't change that. I was working before I went to prison and when I came out I got a job doing casual labouring and then 3 years in college when i was working part time as a waiter and even had a second job in retail coming up to Christmas last year as well as my "proper" job.

Point is I have always worked hard and never caused any problems at work. I can go back to labouring or work in McDonalds but I did spend 3 years working hard to get a degree and improve myself so should I really have to wait until I am 50 to get a decent job?

As another poster said prison is about rehabilitation as well as punishment. I have done the punishment that the court gave me and think I have rehabilitated myself with the help of others. Going to prison is one part of my life but not the only part.

Leo Demidov

Mark25 wrote:

Thanks for all the help and advice. Finished up in the job yesterday and am starting to look for something else and have an appointment for Monday to see whats out there.

Best of luck with it. Don't listen to the negative sh1te.

pc7

OP really sorry to hear how it turned out, you have worked so hard to put all that behind you. Wishing you the very best of luck going forward. Really hope you have find something soon, lesson learned on this one, tell no one your history unless explicitly asked in interview or application.

angeleyes

So sorry to hear that Mark25 but I think that company have lost a valued colleague and someone willing to work hard above and beyond.

I wish you luck in your next job and what ever company employs you again - they will be lucky to have you. I really admire what you have come through to make life better for yourself and you'll do it.

Best of luck Mark25.

Jessicafmessick

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/109556083#Comment_109556083

Hi Mark,

I read over your situation in 2017 where you had trouble with trying to get a job when revealing that you had a previous conviction. It is so hard now to even do work experience on a course. I had to be vetted for the course work placement and because mine revealed past convictions from some 20 years ago, I could not continue. I feel I should be on disability allowance from the DSP because of my criminal record, I can't move on with my life, even complete a course or be employed. So disheartening and frustrating.

Yes I made a mistake, paid my dues, but not really actually because it is a sentence I still carry with me. I can't study because all courses now, a work placement must be completed to be certified, so I never get my certificate. I study until the work placement comes up and then I have to drop out. I've been through it enough times.

I really hope Mark, that you have landed on your feet. I really sympathies with you.

CramCycle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/109446048#Comment_109446048

I've never been asked to disclose a conviction, a few jobs had Garda vetting and one required a driving license with no marks on it (never needed to drive for the job so that was weird) but ass you say, lots of jobs don't ask this.

CramCycle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/109461791#Comment_109461791

Probationary period can't be longer than 6 months unless for exceptional reasons, so if you had a good review at 6 months, you were no longer on probation.

Dav010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121920079#Comment_121920079

That came into effect in December 22, check the date on the thread.

CramCycle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121920134#Comment_121920134

Damn Zombie resurrections, completely missed that

Squatman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/109445231#Comment_109445231

thats a over generalisation I think. iv interviewed maybe 200 people, (all for tech roles) and the question of convictions never came up. and had I a conviction, I wouldn't be offering that information, neither would I offer to tell them how many cats I have at home.

Ted222

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121920079#Comment_121920079

An employee can still be let go within the first 12 months of employment, notwithstanding the new probation period requirement.

CramCycle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121959955#Comment_121959955

They can be let go after 20 years, notwithstanding the new probation period requirement. Not sure what your point is. After six months you need a good, justifiable, reason. Whether that reason is at 11 months, 13 months or 240 months.

Ted222

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121960928#Comment_121960928

Put another way, a person with less than 12 months’ service still does not have the benefit of unfair dismissal legislation, even if they have successfully completed a six month probation period.

Some people think they’re in the clear when they complete a six month probationary but they actually remain exposed for the full 12 months.

banie01

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/109556083#Comment_109556083

The very best of luck in getting something new sorted. The disconnect between punishment and rehabilitation in Ireland is huge. It's great to see someone come out of the penalty system and it behooves society to allow 2nd chances.