Does Ireland have a higher level of lawlessness or disregard for the law than other c

NIMAN · 14-02-2019 08:35PM #1

After listening to radio debates today, when people are saying its against a young persons human rights to not allow them to drive on their own under a provisional licence, I got to think, as a nation do we tolerate a certain level of lawlessness?

Doesn't matter that these unaccompanied drivers are adding to the fatality count.

Others want us to be able to have 3 or 4 pints and still drive home.

Then we have our fraudulent claim culture. When many would say "you should claim for that".

Others complaining about Gardai checkpoints having the audacity to actually breathalyse people.

Not to mention many who drive without insurance or tax.

So are we worse than other nations?

Samuel T. Cogley · 14-02-2019 08:37PM

Ireland has a rebellious nature in general I think. People don't like to follow the rules. But it's fairly minor stuff. All in all I'd say we're about average in the developed world.

As for the claims culture though, it's a oft trotted out line that we are overly litigious but rarely backed up with any hard facts vs other jurisdictions.

Signore Fancy Pants · 14-02-2019 08:39PM

We are a nation of chancers and fcuktards with a hefty sprinkle of a "do what I say and not as a I do" attitude.

Schure, be grand.

Also, we are generally alright until someone tells us not to do something... then we just fcuking do it, 'cos fcuk them lot!

Flyingsnowball · 14-02-2019 08:43PM

Every country has a percentage of all types of people. Circumstances like poverty skew this percentage abit.
People who have never been out of Ireland for more than a week in Santa ponsa say things like “only in Ireland”.

The motorways in Germany are as mad as here.

dxhound2005 · 14-02-2019 08:43PM

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

Ireland has a rebellious nature in general I think. People don't like to follow the rules. But it's fairly minor stuff. All in all I'd say we're about average in the developed world.

If we are average we must be a lot less rebellious than some countries.

j8wk2feszrnpao · 14-02-2019 08:45PM

NIMAN wrote: »

So are we worse than other nations?

No. We are worse than some, but a hell of a lot better than many others.

Signore Fancy Pants · 14-02-2019 08:48PM

Berties_Horse wrote: »

We're better than Burkina Faso, and the Healy-Raes.

It would be better if Burkina Faso had the Healy-Raes!!!

mad muffin · 14-02-2019 08:52PM

They have but as the decades go by less so.

orourkeda1977 · 14-02-2019 09:04PM

I followed the law on yer aul wan last night.

Gimme A Pound · 14-02-2019 09:29PM

I don't think so. That description makes me think of somewhere in the wilds of Latin America or Africa or Asia, but I definitely think there is a disappointing level of self entitlement and "why should I?" And "I know my rights". An unwillingness just to face up to taking responsibility for one's own choices.

NIMAN · 14-02-2019 09:31PM

Vrt avoidance is a biggie too.

The country is full of people driving on UK or NI plates.

dxhound2005 · 14-02-2019 09:36PM

NIMAN wrote: »

Vrt avoidance is a biggie too.

The country is full of people driving on UK or NI plates.

They could be UK citizens, especially in border counties.

buried · 14-02-2019 09:37PM

The whole driving thing for young people is a load of auld balls. If the establishment actually want young people to be competent drivers, well then teach the skill in secondary school for christsakes. Stick it as a course in transition year for those that want to do it. Be more beneficial than the civics/religious/social **** wollicks they festoon that entire year with.

dxhound2005 · 14-02-2019 09:41PM

buried wrote: »

The whole driving thing for young people is a load of auld balls. If the establishment actually want young people to be competent drivers, well then teach the skill in secondary school for christsakes. Stick it as a course in transition year for those that want to do it. Be more beneficial than the civics/religious/social **** wollicks they festoon that entire year with.

Where would they get better driving instructors than those who are doing it now?

SEPT 23 1989 · 14-02-2019 09:42PM

The state likes easy targets

buried · 14-02-2019 09:44PM

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Where would they get better driving instructors than those who are doing it now?

Use the same ones, make them pay for it if you want, just give them the chance to learn an actual life skill for the one year they have the time to do it. The schools have no problem hiring outside tutors for other waste of time modules in that year. Why no learn to drive courses?

I'd also like to see some actual statistics about how many provisional learners have been involved in fatal car crashes, and not some grim depressing TV advert

Larbre34 · 14-02-2019 09:47PM

We are woolly on some laws that are impractical day-to-day, such as this unaccompanied drivers thing for example. Water charges failed because the public saw it for the farce it was.

However, if you look at the massive success of the plastic bag tax, the smoking ban and the drastic reduction in road deaths due to drink-driving and speeding law changes over the years, we are pretty compliant for things that are generally good for society.

By coincidence I was chatting to a recently retired Uncle of mine last night who worked his whole life in sales and commercial dealing in heavy industries around the world and the stories he recounts about blatant, shameless, overt and inconsequential corruption and fraud he encountered in so many countries that is just part and parcel of getting anything done would make your hair curl.

If you add that to levels of violent crime and abuse in many countries compared to ourselves, I'd say we're a pretty observant and civilised bunch when it comes to everyday laws.

dxhound2005 · 14-02-2019 09:48PM

buried wrote: »

Use the same ones, make them pay for it if you want, just give them the chance to learn an actual life skill for the one year they have the time to do it. The schools have no problem hiring outside tutors for other waste of time modules in that year. Why no learn to drive courses?

I'd also like to see some actual statistics about how many provisional learners have been involved in fatal car crashes, and not some grim depressing TV advert

I can't see any reason to involve schools in that. Let them go to those instructors in their own time, not use up school hours.

buried · 14-02-2019 09:52PM

dxhound2005 wrote: »

I can't see any reason to involve schools in that. Let them go to those instructors in their own time, not use up school hours.

But the hours are being used up on useless $hite anyways. Religious education, PE, Civics, Art History. Fair enough if you want to do them things but driving is a fundamental life skill that you must learn, especially if you are living in a rural area and wish to continue to keep living there. The state should give those the option to learn it if they want to, especially in something like 4th year where feic all is happening in terms of state exams

Gimme A Pound · 14-02-2019 09:55PM

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

The state likes easy targets

How do you mean?

CalamariFritti · 14-02-2019 09:57PM

I don't think it is the case that the Irish are lawless. There is a bit of a streak of not responding well to authority and I find the Irish more rebellious than for example the Germans who love to follow rules. But by and large Irish people are pretty law abiding and conservative and a lot of the rebellion is confined to having a good moan over a pint and getting the odd little win over 'the man'.

As to the driving thing. Driving is serious enough business. You're propelling a thing that weighs over a ton and a little moment of not paying attention or panicking can kill very easily. Generally speaking people are way too blasé about this. You need to treat it as the serious thing that it is and it is not a divine right to drive either. You need to be qualified to do so and NCT and insurance are not a joke, there is a good reason for all this.

I hate this thing being trotted out 'but I need to drive for x, y, z reason'. Same with people who did something and are in danger of losing their license. Well if its so important to your life then maybe you should make an actual proper effort to qualify or not do the stupid things that may get you disqualified. Not just sit there and moan how you should be allowed to drive 'because' .

buried · 14-02-2019 10:04PM

If ye want to see some lawlessness, come down my place on a Saturday night on the local 3am fast food strip and watch all sorts of people nyucked out of their booze box literally kicking the holy hell out of each other. Where the police? In bed getting ready for the 8am breathalyzer Sunday morning checkpoint test for the people what had two beers the night before in their own gaff and have to go to the shop or mass that morning

Victor · 14-02-2019 10:08PM

There are different rules and laws in different places, so this shifts things.

People point to Germany and say "they follow the rules", when in fact, there is a very strong counter-culture and there is a huge amount of money in tax evasion.

People point to Asia and say "those people do what the boss says"* when there can be lots of slacking off, sleeping on the job and trying to retire by age 30.

* Note that what the boss says might not follow the rules.

Salt Lake Stallion · 14-02-2019 10:09PM

Having lived in Australia for a while I found people there are just as willing as us Irish to circumvent the law.

mikemac2 · 14-02-2019 10:41PM

Drink driving culture in Continental Europe is where Ireland was 20 years ago in my experience. It’s rife

So much progress made in Ireland and the OP and others won’t credit that

Snow Garden · 14-02-2019 10:49PM

The Gardaí seem to have a disregard for the law. Ask McCabe.

buried · 14-02-2019 10:51PM

NIMAN · 14-02-2019 10:53PM

dxhound2005 wrote: »

They could be UK citizens, especially in border counties.

They ain't.

I'm talking about the folk who bought property in Ireland when it was cheaper than in NI, but who still wanted to live the NI life, keep the car, send the kids to their old schools.

So now they drive NI cars and register their kids at the granny's address so they don't have to go to ROI schools.

HBC08 · 14-02-2019 11:04PM

NIMAN wrote: »

They ain't.

I'm talking about the folk who bought property in Ireland when it was cheaper than in NI, but who still wanted to live the NI life, keep the car, send the kids to their old schools.

So now they drive NI cars and register their kids at the granny's address so they don't have to go to ROI schools.

There's no doubt that this is a thing. A shocking, shocking thing.

dxhound2005 · 14-02-2019 11:14PM

With so many NI drivers in Donegal and the other border counties daily, it must be difficult for the authorities to spot the locals with imports. They did have a bit of a crackdown back in 2012.

CUSTOMS officers are seizing almost 140 cars every month from motorists driving UK-registered cars to avoid paying tax.

A major clampdown has resulted in almost 3,000 cars with yellow number plates being seized over the past 22 months alone, according to new figures from the Revenue Commissioners.

If anyone knows an offender they could report them. It will be a lot easier after Brexit, if there is a real border.

NIMAN · 14-02-2019 11:37PM

There is plenty of documentation to prove these folk are Irish residents.

They will be paying a mortgage, claiming child benefit for a start.

Does Ireland have a higher level of lawlessness or disregard for the law than other c

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