Ireland Team Talk X: The Long Hard Road to a Semi. MOD WARNING POSTS #1, #1474, #5707

troyzer · 10-02-2019 6:43pm

ionadnapokot wrote: »

After the last 2 weekends of rugby I’m reminded of a scene from The Life of Brian:
What have the English ever done for us?

Showed us that you must play a FB at FB?

Ireland need to fast track Larmour at FB v Italy. & probably France.
Leinster need to alternate him with RK
Munster need to play Conway at FB
Ulster need to play Addison at FB

Larmour has been getting loads of time at fullback for Leinster.

sydthebeat · 10-02-2019 6:59pm

ionadnapokot wrote: »

After the last 2 weekends of rugby I’m reminded of a scene from The Life of Brian:
What have the English ever done for us?

Showed us that you must play a FB at FB?

Ireland need to fast track Larmour at FB v Italy. & probably France.
Leinster need to alternate him with RK
Munster need to play Conway at FB
Ulster need to play Addison at FB

Do you mean the England who play a center at full back??

Neil3030 · 10-02-2019 7:00pm

sydthebeat wrote: »

Do you mean the England who play a center at full back??

Ringrose to fullback - confirmed.

ionadnapokot · 10-02-2019 8:02pm

sydthebeat wrote: »

Do you mean the England who play a center at full back??

Good point - but I think u know what I mean.
I think he has played there all during the autumn?
Played a bit at fb for Wasps?

Dubinusa · 10-02-2019 8:12pm

Daly seems better at fb than Henshaw?
Not saying Henshaw couldn't develop there, but he was shyte!

sydthebeat · 10-02-2019 8:29pm

ionadnapokot wrote: »

Good point - but I think u know what I mean.
I think he has played there all during the autumn?
Played a bit at fb for Wasps?

Ah yeah I'm only stirring....

But I guess it goes to show that versatility is the way forward and the specialists back three players like RK are getting rare.
Once the half penny, brown, Kearney era finishes I think the international back three player will be interchangable

ionadnapokot · 10-02-2019 9:28pm

sydthebeat wrote: »

Ah yeah I'm only stirring....

But I guess it goes to show that versatility is the way forward and the specialists back three players like RK are getting rare.
Once the half penny, brown, Kearney era finishes I think the international back three player will be interchangable

I thought so! U make a good point about versatility for the back three. You do need that versatility in the squad - Daly is probably the best example.
Addison is Ireland’s version but he is getting vlittle time at FB.
Right now without RobK, Ireland are in Serious trouble.

England are leading the way in how to exploit that space in the back field.
Just to differ on your point about the specialist FB. I would always prefer a vgood FB over a vgood utility player who cover FB the odd time.
e.g Rob v Huget or Rob v any Irish player.
Larmour, Conway and Addison all need to be playing FB. & probably every other week at a minimum.

jonok28 · 11-02-2019 2:41am

It's as simple as this, whether Kearney has the tournament of his life, plays absolutely terrible or gets injured, a replacement is needed after the World Cup. Anyone can say we are in alot of trouble if we don't have Kearney, I call BS on the overzealous and knee jerk reaction media.

Before the Six Nations we were lauding the depth we have and we also mentioned how we have Larmour, Conway, Addison and Henshaw to come in right off the bat. Nothing has changed, people are willing to crap all over Henshaw because he had some trouble with a lethal English back 3 and one of the top Rugby Teams in the world, yes he made some poor decisions and his kicking was hit and miss but his tackling was good and he looked alot more potent then Kearney with ball in hand. I wouldn't play Kearney against Italy or France, this is your chance to see what you got. I'd go with Larmour against France and Henshaw against Italy.

troyzer · 11-02-2019 8:32am

There are a maximum of 15 points left for Ireland who are on 4. England are on 10.

Even if Wales beat England and we try bonus our last three games (including in Cardiff) England will probably still win. They have Italy at home which is a guaranteed try bonus and then Scotland at home which they'll probably win which would leave them on 19 at least. England are miles ahead on points difference so no joy there.

It's over in my book. England would basically need to lose against Scotland AND Wales for us to have any chance.

I think we'll be playing for second at best on the last day.

Interested Observer · 11-02-2019 8:42am

We had no chance of winning the championship after getting done by 0-5 match points by England.

troyzer · 11-02-2019 8:55am

Interested Observer wrote: »

We had no chance of winning the championship after getting done by 0-5 match points by England.

I think there would have been an outside chance had we picked up 5 against Scotland and England only got 4 against France.

Then it's a 9-5 table and suddenly England have to go to Cardiff and we have to go to Rome.

Then you're looking at potentially 10-9 Ireland/England with Wales on 12 and all to play for in the final two rounds.

Eod100 · 11-02-2019 10:24am

troyzer wrote: »

There are a maximum of 15 points left for Ireland who are on 4. England are on 10.

Even if Wales beat England and we try bonus our last three games (including in Cardiff) England will probably still win. They have Italy at home which is a guaranteed try bonus and then Scotland at home which they'll probably win which would leave them on 19 at least. England are miles ahead on points difference so no joy there.

It's over in my book. England would basically need to lose against Scotland AND Wales for us to have any chance.

I think we'll be playing for second at best on the last day.

Yeah and could see them getting 2 tbp wins in next 3 matches. Even if they lost one game with a lbp, they will still finish top. Could see them getting GS at this point. Don't think Wales or Scotland will have enough to beat them this season. Happily to be proven wrong though! If England got 5 tbp wins would that be the first tbp GS since the bonus points system was used?

Zzippy · 11-02-2019 10:57am

Wegians89 wrote: »

I’m pretty hopeful Quinn roux will surprise a few, he’s been excellent for Connacht and joe seems to trust him

stephen_n wrote: »

I don't doubt that Roux will deliver a good performance, but set piece is so important to how we play, especially the line out. I really hope he steps up there with his calling.

sydthebeat wrote: »

Im pretty sure it will, its his kind of game to shine in..... he will help we ensure good ball retention, he'll tackle like a demon around the fringes.

the line out is the only area that i think is a bit unknown, but we now have 5 very able jumpers with Conan and SOB joining the ranks, who are probably that bit more of a jumping option than stander and VDF

Ye called it well lads!

https://twitter.com/CianTracey1/status/1094581347530752000

Faugheen · 11-02-2019 11:07am

Zzippy wrote: »

Ye called it well lads!

https://twitter.com/CianTracey1/status/1094581347530752000

I think anybody who has watched Quinn Roux for Ireland would have been able to guess this. He always does the job when he's required to.

The level of criticism towards him before even playing this week was ridiculous. Neil Francis can join Ewan McKenna on the list of people who need to f*ck off.

Mr Tickle · 11-02-2019 11:28am

Faugheen wrote: »

I think anybody who has watched Quinn Roux for Ireland would have been able to guess this. He always does the job when he's required to.

The level of criticism towards him before even playing this week was ridiculous. Neil Francis can join Ewan McKenna on the list of people who need to f*ck off.

I think it was Francis who made a comment about him after the italy game in Chicago. something to the effect of "any game that makes Quinn Roux look like an international player .. something something shut down Connauught?"

It was just so unnecessarily mean to single out a guy who had done a good job.

Former Former · 11-02-2019 11:35am

Roux did well. That doesn't mean that it was unreasonable to question whether he was up to it, and I don't think anyone here was particularly dismissive of him.

awec · 11-02-2019 11:49am

https://www.the42.ie/ireland-world-cup-schmidt-six-nations-4487243-Feb2019/

This is certainly interesting comments from Schmidt. For anyone who can't access it in work, he is basically saying we've done well in the six nations under him, so if it goes a bit tits up this year it's fine cause the world cup is at the end of the year and it gives guys experience. Certainly seems like the WC is the focus, which would be quite the change in approach for an Irish team (and a welcome one IMO).

kilns · 11-02-2019 11:50am

Mr Tickle wrote: »

I think it was Francis who made a comment about him after the italy game in Chicago. something to the effect of "any game that makes Quinn Roux look like an international player .. something something shut down Connauught?"

It was just so unnecessarily mean to single out a guy who had done a good job.

Its ironic Francis slagging off Roux when he himself was a useless lump for Ireland for years

ClanofLams · 11-02-2019 11:50am

Former Former wrote: »

Roux did well. That doesn't mean that it was unreasonable to question whether he was up to it, and I don't think anyone here was particularly dismissive of him.

Ah now at least one poster decided for some reason to single him out last week and say he should never be in squad again.

Anyone who questioned hasn’t paid much attention to Roux in an Ireland jersey.

He’s not Beirne or Henderson and he’s probably not going to make rampaging carries (notwithstanding his improvement as a carrier) or win multiple turnovers but he will carry out the core duties of a second row to a very high level.

Faugheen · 11-02-2019 11:52am

Former Former wrote: »

Roux did well. That doesn't mean that it was unreasonable to question whether he was up to it, and I don't think anyone here was particularly dismissive of him.

But the fact remained that he was the next best selection.

Starting him over Henderson and Toner if they were both fit would be questionable, but this wasn't the case. He was the next best option for this game and being critical of him when it was a situation that couldn't be fixed and when he had shown no reason to believe he wouldn't be up for it was grossly unfair.

It's this scapegoating of more traditional players (ala Kearney, Heaslip, Best etc.) and wanting to see more explosive, highlight-reel type players wanting to play.

A lot of critics of Roux on here didn't care less that he was the only option to call the line out, they wanted the more athletic Dillane playing.

Eod100 · 11-02-2019 11:54am

awec wrote: »

https://www.the42.ie/ireland-world-cup-schmidt-six-nations-4487243-Feb2019/

This is certainly interesting comments from Schmidt. For anyone who can't access it in work, he is basically saying we've done well in the six nations under him, so if it goes a bit tits up this year it's fine cause the world cup is at the end of the year and it gives guys experience. Certainly seems like the WC is the focus, which would be quite the change in approach for an Irish team (and a welcome one IMO).

I guess the England result may have influenced that a bit too? But in a RWC year good to see some planning ahead.

Perifect · 11-02-2019 11:56am

ClanofLams wrote: »

Ah now at least one poster decided for some reason to single him out last week and say he should never be in squad again.

Anyone who questioned hasn’t paid much attention to Roux in an Ireland jersey.

He’s not Beirne or Henderson and he’s probably not going to make rampaging carries (notwithstanding his improvement as a carrier) or win multiple turnovers but he will carry out the core duties of a second row to a very high level.

Not having a go at Roux but this is the level we're at now. We're not looking for players who are competent in their positions, we're looking for players to stand out in their positions. To be able to perform above the minimum standards. Roux had a fine game as did other players like Best but they don't do what Henderson or Beirne can do, change a game.

Buer · 11-02-2019 11:58am

In relation to Schmidt's comments, we'll see. If there is a different approach for the year that's in it, we'll see different halfbacks start against Italy and POM get a week off to look at one of the contenders for a RWC spot such as Ruddock or Murphy.

Carbery still badly needs more exposure at test level. He's at the point now where he's starting to look relatively comfortable at test level without really making much happen. He'll only get that level of awareness and confidence from more pitch time. With Sexton's HIA, there's no reason for Carbery not to be starting the Italian game.

Eod100 · 11-02-2019 12:00pm

Buer wrote: »

In relation to Schmidt's comments, we'll see. If there is a different approach for the year that's in it, we'll see different halfbacks start against Italy and POM get a week off to look at one of the contenders for a RWC spot such as Ruddock or Murphy.

Carbery still badly needs more exposure at test level. He's at the point now where he's starting to look relatively comfortable at test level without really making much happen. He'll only get that level of awareness and confidence from more pitch time. With Sexton's HIA, there's no reason for Carbery not to be starting the Italian game.

Yeah I think the HIA decision might make that decision. Otherwise Schmidt night have gone with JS and Murray again because not sure they have fully clicked fully this 6N just yet. Think on pool stages of RWC you could see some changes so might as well try them out in 6N in advance

ClanofLams · 11-02-2019 12:01pm

Perifect wrote: »

Not having a go at Roux but this is the level we're at now. We're not looking for players who are competent in their positions, we're looking for players to stand out in their positions. To be able to perform above the minimum standards. Roux had a fine game as did other players like Best but they don't do what Henderson or Beirne can do, change a game.

What’s your point? Henderson and Beirne weren’t available. What Roux did is basically exactly what would be expected of Toner. Somebody has to do the ugly stuff which is as important as the flashier stuff.

ClanofLams · 11-02-2019 12:03pm

Buer wrote: »

In relation to Schmidt's comments, we'll see. If there is a different approach for the year that's in it, we'll see different halfbacks start against Italy and POM get a week off to look at one of the contenders for a RWC spot such as Ruddock or Murphy.

Carbery still badly needs more exposure at test level. He's at the point now where he's starting to look relatively comfortable at test level without really making much happen. He'll only get that level of awareness and confidence from more pitch time. With Sexton's HIA, there's no reason for Carbery not to be starting the Italian game.

Would prefer to see Carbery with Murray. Maybe play Marmion with Sexton against France. It’s unlikely we’re without both half backs so game time between the starter and back ups more important.

11-02-2019 12:04pm

That's a big performance from Roux just when Ireland needed it. Bit of credit in the bank now.

Faugheen · 11-02-2019 12:05pm

Perifect wrote: »

Not having a go at Roux but this is the level we're at now. We're not looking for players who are competent in their positions, we're looking for players to stand out in their positions. To be able to perform above the minimum standards. Roux had a fine game as did other players like Best but they don't do what Henderson or Beirne can do, change a game.

But Roux is arguably our 5th choice lock. People expecting our 5th choice to be up to the standard of arguably our second (a Lion) are completely and utterly delusional.

He came in and did the bread and butter, and worked harder around the breakdown (which was something desperately needed after the England game) than any other Irish forward and also called the lineout as well as Toner or Henderson would.

He did all of that and we won. What else is needed from him?

There's always questions over whether Roux is up to the task and every time he shows that he is.

Buer · 11-02-2019 12:08pm

ClanofLams wrote: »

Would prefer to see Carbery with Murray. Maybe play Marmion with Sexton against France. It’s unlikely we’re without both half backs so game time between the starter and back ups more important.

Fair point and I think Murray might need another game anyway. No better clash for him to get his confidence up and find his radar again. I think it's more important that Carbery gets the run out at this point than Marmion anyway.

I don't think we'll see wholesale changes but I do reckon we could see 5 or 6 which will include some injured players coming back in such as Ringrose, Henderson/Beirne, Henshaw etc.

thomond2006 · 11-02-2019 12:14pm

Healy, Best, Porter, Ryan, Beirne*/Henderson*/Roux, POM, JVDF, Conan;
Murray, Carbery, Stockdale, Aki, Ringrose*/Farrell, Earls, Kearney

Scannell, Kilcoyne, Furlong, Dillane, SOB, Cooney, Carty, Henshaw*/Larmour

*if fit

Ireland Team Talk X: The Long Hard Road to a Semi. MOD WARNING POSTS #1, #1474, #5707

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