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Do you think nurses will get their payrise?

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    #3752
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,652 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    alloywheel wrote: »
    And that is just one of many reasons why the nurses will not get it: if they get it then the physios and hospital porters and ambulance drivers and clerical staff and teachers and you name it will want it too. €58,000 a year is average pay of nurses and compares favourably with other peoples income as it is.

    There will be a nice wee secret agreement before long. Wait and see.


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    #3753
    feckthisgenie
    Registered Users Posts: 181 ✭✭feckthisgenie


    alloywheel wrote: »
    And that is just one of many reasons why the nurses will not get it: if they get it then the physios and hospital porters and ambulance drivers and clerical staff and teachers and you name it will want it too. €58,000 a year is average pay of nurses and compares favourably with other peoples income as it is.

    Except €58k is not the pay.


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    #3754
    mad muffin
    Registered Users Posts: 8,034 ✭✭✭mad muffin


    BarryD2 wrote: »
    The INMO has a big call to make tomorrow. A three day consecutive strike is a huge escalation and can do as much damage to the nurses reputation as the governments. And will individual nurses just start breaking the pickets out of a sense of duty & care? I don't think they ever thought it'd go this far.

    Do you think all the nurses just drop tools and walk out? All emergency and essential personnel are on hand. A&E is open. The ward nurses are there. Those that are on areas that are closed down like the day ward or ANP’s are either on the picket or redeployed.

    The INMO and nurses don’t want any patients to suffer for this but the government has not delivered what was promised. The government will willing continue with the status quo if it was left to them.

    The waiting lists would only grow. The patients waiting in trollies in the corridors of A&E will only get worse and their stay there will get longer. As there are not enough nurses in the wards to attend to all of them. There are beds. But there are not enough nurses for those beds. Day wards will still get closed and surgeries cancelled if the amount of patients waiting on trollies goes up overnight.

    Whilst the health service has always suffered in Ireland. This government is the government that made it that much worse with its recruiting ban and pay cut to nurses.

    This government has done fück all to rectify this since the recession has ended. It is this government that might have increased the budget for health care but it has implemented the spending poorly and hasn’t bothered to see why its spending more but getting nowhere. The children’s hospital is a prime example of this governments total incompetence. It’s total lack of awareness and lack of directions for this country is absolutely criminal.


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    #3755
    alloywheel
    Closed Accounts Posts: 245 ✭✭alloywheel


    No such thing as a "nice wee secret agreement".

    Look what the agreements with the unions did to the country 15 years ago.


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    #3756
    alloywheel
    Closed Accounts Posts: 245 ✭✭alloywheel


    feckthisgenie wrote: »
    Except €58k is not the pay.

    Oh, are you one of the staff nurses who earned over €140,000 from the HSE only a few years ago? Whats your pay including allowances now? €130K or €150k?

    https://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/four-staff-nurses-earned-over-140000-last-year-229997.html


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    #3757
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,652 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    alloywheel wrote: »
    No such thing as a "nice wee secret agreement".

    Look what the agreements with the unions did to the country 15 years ago.

    Without the Unions nobody would have anything.
    I worked in places that had no union and was treated like dirt so I support them 100%.


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    #3758
    alloywheel
    Closed Accounts Posts: 245 ✭✭alloywheel


    tayto lover wrote: »
    Without the Unions nobody would have anything.
    Most people in unions work in the public sector. So you think people in the private sector have nothing, and is fine for them to work hard and pay their taxes to the government who then pay the public sector with them?

    In Ireland the public sector is much better paid than the private sector, in most other countries they are the same.

    No wonder our government is broke with no money for anything else, eg infrastructure like better transport, social housing etc.


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    #3759
    A Shropshire Lad
    Registered Users Posts: 196 ✭✭A Shropshire Lad


    This is another legacy of that prick Bertie Aherne. He decided in the late ninties to essentially 'buy off' the unions to guarantee him getting elected 3 times. He gave them whatever they wanted. The unions realised then all they had to do was threaten successive governments and they would roll over.
    Nurses never went on strike before then...


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    #3760
    feckthisgenie
    Registered Users Posts: 181 ✭✭feckthisgenie


    alloywheel wrote: »
    Oh, are you one of the staff nurses who earned over €140,000 from the HSE only a few years ago? Whats your pay including allowances now? €130K or €150k?

    https://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/four-staff-nurses-earned-over-140000-last-year-229997.html

    4 nurses out of 40k. I'm not a nurse by the way.
    The pay scales are online maybe open your eyes and have a look at starting point , increments and end point. It's not rocket science, quite easy even for you


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    #3761
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,652 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    alloywheel wrote: »
    Most people in unions work in the public sector. So you think people in the private sector have nothing, and is fine for them to work hard and pay their taxes to the government who then pay the public sector with them?

    In Ireland the public sector is much better paid than the private sector, in most other countries they are the same.

    No wonder our government is broke with no money for anything else, eg infrastructure like better transport, social housing etc.

    That’s my point.
    If you are content just to accept what you’re given then you will always be poorly paid.


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    #3762
    Paulzx
    Registered Users Posts: 1,968 ✭✭✭Paulzx


    alloywheel wrote: »
    So do architects, its a longer and more difficult course than nursing and upon completion of 5 years 3rd level, architects get paid peanuts for 2 years if they are lucky enough to get a job at all. And during the recession 70% lost their jobs. How many nurses lost their jobs?


    ....because the arse fell out of the "market" for architects during the recession. They had a completely unwanted skill. Don't think the same happened to the demand for nurses skills.

    Maybe the architects should have retrained as nurses?


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    #3763
    RinusLaptop76
    Registered Users Posts: 154 ✭✭RinusLaptop76


    Martina1991 wrote: »
    The first point on a staff nurse pay scale is 29,345.

    Graduated nurses right out school aren't staff nurses and don't start with 29k.


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    #3764
    Fann Linn
    Registered Users Posts: 7,782 ✭✭✭Fann Linn


    alloywheel wrote: »
    Most people in unions work in the public sector. So you think people in the private sector have nothing, and is fine for them to work hard and pay their taxes to the government who then pay the public sector with them?

    In Ireland the public sector is much better paid than the private sector, in most other countries they are the same.

    No wonder our government is broke with no money for anything else, eg infrastructure like better transport, social housing etc.


    In actual fact most people in unions are private sector.

    Just happens that most public sector workers are unionised.


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    #3765
    alloywheel
    Closed Accounts Posts: 245 ✭✭alloywheel


    tayto lover wrote: »
    If you are content just to accept what you’re given then you will always be poorly paid.

    Most people strive to better themselves, get promotion, set up their own businesses or otherwise get on in life.

    If everyone group of workers in the country had an average of €58,000 per year income like the nurses do, defined benefit "golden" pension from the government, job security, 10 or 11 days sickies a year etc...and they went on strike for even more pay, what sort of country would it be? It would be un-competitive and bankrupt very quickly.

    The nurses are greedy and selfish, everyone saw that when they cancelled cancer patients appointments last week.


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    #3766
    alloywheel
    Closed Accounts Posts: 245 ✭✭alloywheel


    Paulzx wrote: »
    ....because the arse fell out of the "market" for architects during the recession. They had a completely unwanted skill. Don't think the same happened to the demand for nurses skills.

    Paulzx wrote: »
    .
    Maybe the architects should have retrained as nurses?

    Many private sector architects retrained in different careers, or were forced to emigrate. Not a single public sector architect lost their job. The staff in government planning offices that were dealing with planning applications during the celtic tiger were still in government planning offices 2, 4, 6 years after the bust twiddling their thumbs and dealing with 5% of the workload / applications. See how valuable job security is?


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    #3767
    feckthisgenie
    Registered Users Posts: 181 ✭✭feckthisgenie


    alloywheel wrote: »
    Most people strive to better themselves, get promotion, set up their own businesses or otherwise get on in life.

    If everyone group of workers in the country had an average of €58,000 per year income like the nurses do, defined benefit "golden" pension from the government, job security, 10 or 11 days sickies a year etc...and the went on strike for even more pay, what sort of country would it be? It would be uncompetitive and bankrupt very quickly.

    The nurses are greedy and selfish, everyone saw that when they cancelled cancer patients appointments last week.

    10 or 11 sick days a year? It's 7 days uncertified in a rolling 24 month period. Your full of sh1t the true doesn't fit your agenda.
    The private sector are milking it with all their perks and massive wages/bonuses


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    #3768
    wrangler
    Registered Users Posts: 11,103 ✭✭✭✭wrangler


      feckthisgenie wrote: »
      10 or 11 sick days a year? It's 7 days uncertified in a rolling 24 month period. Your full of sh1t the true doesn't fit your agenda.
      The private sector are milking it with all their perks and massive wages/bonuses

      Our mutual friend takes plenty of them anyway, might be part of her problem there.
      Well paid private sector workers work many times the hours of public sector and if they don't they're not well paid


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      #3769
      David73
      Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 162 ✭✭David73


      feckthisgenie wrote: »
      10 or 11 sick days a year? It's 7 days uncertified in a rolling 24 month period. Your full of sh1t the true doesn't fit your agenda.
      The private sector are milking it with all their perks and massive wages/bonuses

      What garbage!


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      #3770
      feckthisgenie
      Registered Users Posts: 181 ✭✭feckthisgenie


      David73 wrote: »
      What garbage!

      Which part Davina?


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      #3771
      feckthisgenie
      Registered Users Posts: 181 ✭✭feckthisgenie


      wrangler wrote: »

        Our mutual friend takes plenty of them anyway, might be part of her problem there.
        Well paid private sector workers work many times the hours of public sector and if they don't they're not well paid

        I dont know or care what your friend takes. Again your figures are plucked from your head to suit your agenda and aren't factually. HSE Sick leave policy is available online as are pay scales for all public servants.


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        #3772
        Spanish Eyes
        Registered Users Posts: 15,919 ✭✭✭✭Spanish Eyes


        The full time working week is 36 hours AFAIK.

        That is three shifts of twelve hours. Three full shifts on, four days off. I do realise that night duties are factored in also, and overtime etc. but as I understand it, 36 hours is the working week.

        Is that correct? if I am wrong I will take it on the chin.


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        #3773
        alloywheel
        Closed Accounts Posts: 245 ✭✭alloywheel


        feckthisgenie wrote: »
        10 or 11 sick days a year? It's 7 days uncertified in a rolling 24 month period. Your full of sh1t the true doesn't fit your agenda.

        Absenteeism in the HSE amounts to 10 days per worker in one year

        https://www.irishexaminer.com/viewpoints/yourview/absenteeism-in-the-hse-amounts-to-10-days-per-worker-in-one-year-309467.html

        Quote: We must be the sickest nation in the world, or do we have a workforce that is skilled in dishonesty?

        Team-work is essential, especially in the public service, and this high rate of absenteeism must have increased the risk of mistakes.

        This also exposes the incompetence of public service managers, because their employees take three times the number of days off of their counterparts in the private sector."


        Absenteeism is far higher in the HSE than in the NHS in the UK. It is also much higher than in the private sector.

        Now that is sickening when the taxpayer pays for it!


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        #3774
        feckthisgenie
        Registered Users Posts: 181 ✭✭feckthisgenie


        alloywheel wrote: »
        Absenteeism in the HSE amounts to 10 days per worker in one year

        https://www.irishexaminer.com/viewpoints/yourview/absenteeism-in-the-hse-amounts-to-10-days-per-worker-in-one-year-309467.html

        Quote: We must be the sickest nation in the world, or do we have a workforce that is skilled in dishonesty?

        Team-work is essential, especially in the public service, and this high rate of absenteeism must have increased the risk of mistakes.

        This also exposes the incompetence of public service managers, because their employees take three times the number of days off of their counterparts in the private sector."


        Absenteeism is far higher in the HSE than in the NHS in the UK. It is also much higher than in the private sector.

        Now that is sickening when the taxpayer pays for it!

        Read your post I commented on. It read like you said that's public sector entitlements. Those people that take the piss like that are pulled up for that amount of sick days and not paid when all their sick leave is maxed


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        #3775
        Still waters
        Registered Users Posts: 1,166 ✭✭✭Still waters


        I hope they dont get a cent, their behaviour is losing the public support, if they were out in protest over working conditions I could see the point but all they want is to line their pockets and disrupt the lives of ordinary people who depend on the services they provide, they need to take a step back and see what they're doing is totally wrong and it's ordinary people like us and our mothers and fathers who will suffer, they won't see any suffering over this only a reward if varadkar and Harris dance to their tune, I hate to say it but I'm backing the government in this one, this strike needs to be defeated to send a message to other coseted public services that think they can hold ordinary people to ransom


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        #3776
        wrangler
        Registered Users Posts: 11,103 ✭✭✭✭wrangler


        feckthisgenie wrote: »
        I dont know or care what your friend takes. Again your figures are plucked from your head to suit your agenda and aren't factually. HSE Sick leave policy is available online as are pay scales for all public servants.

        You were quick enough to come in and defend her, loads of days off there, obviously you were bluffing and don't know the circumstances at al of that nurse in the Irish Timesl.
        What sort of a profession would pull that stunt


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        #3777
        David73
        Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 162 ✭✭David73


        feckthisgenie wrote: »
        Read your post I commented on. It read like you said that's public sector entitlements. Those people that take the piss like that are pulled up for that amount of sick days and not paid when all their sick leave is maxed

        Any evidence that these are "pulled up on"???

        Or is it more of your talking ****e!


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        #3778
        tayto lover
        Registered Users Posts: 51,652 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


        Here we go again with 5he “public support” rubbish.
        You could eat and drink a lot of that.


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        #3779
        Paulzx
        Registered Users Posts: 1,968 ✭✭✭Paulzx


        alloywheel wrote: »
        Many private sector architects retrained in different careers, or were forced to emigrate. Not a single public sector architect lost their job. The staff in government planning offices that were dealing with planning applications during the celtic tiger were still in government planning offices 2, 4, 6 years after the bust twiddling their thumbs and dealing with 5% of the workload / applications. See how valuable job security is?

        You compared Architects to Nurses during the recession. I contradicted the argument.

        You have now introduced the spurious comparison of private and public sector architects to a debate on nurses keeping their jobs during the recession when architects lost theirs due to nobody needing their services.

        What is your point? I repeat again. If architects had been able to carry out a nurses duties they would have had a ready market for their skills during the recession.


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        #3780
        trellheim
        Registered Users Posts: 5,888 ✭✭✭trellheim


        but all they want is to line their pockets
        GET UP THE YARD Nurses now earn less than they did in 2008. ( and this is about restoration not lining of pockets )

        Please try and be in the same room as the facts.


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        #3781
        Spanish Eyes
        Registered Users Posts: 15,919 ✭✭✭✭Spanish Eyes


        So is a nurse's full time week 36 hours or what? Sorry to butt back in, but honestly if that is the case, it is game over.

        I do realise that 36 hours is a three day week of twelve hour shifts.

        Above that is overtime, and there are night shifts too. But there are allowances for nightshifts. Just like the Emergency services, Gardai, Prison staff and so on. Not that unusual really. It's part of the job T+Cs.

        And I also know that nurses stay on for the handover too. Unpaid.


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