Beef Plan Movement (READ OP BEFORE POSTING)

wrangler · 07-02-2019 07:33PM

grassroot1 wrote: »

It is not very easy to sell a cow without QA though so it kinda is compulsory.
If my lambs are not QA do they go into another market?
Why is it that fire exits must be marked in livestock sheds who is that relevant to QA

You've hit the nail on the head there, guys say they get nothing extra for QA yet you say the stock won't be taken. So QA is worth more. I wonder who will BPM get to do their QA inspections when they're big meat processor, supermarkets don't accept a once in ten year cross compliance inspection as a guarantee of quallity
I've had a lot of inspections but was never asked for a fire exit.
We were having farm inspections here for supermarkets long before Bord Bia took it on, I'd have no problem with that in that we'd be doing it right anyway.
BPM couldn't pick a worse time to discredit the beef industry with prices on their knees

Grueller · 07-02-2019 08:34PM

wrangler wrote: »

Defers the tax bill you mean, learning a bit about that at the moment......the hard way

OK must get some independent advice on that so.

older by the day · 07-02-2019 09:02PM

Grueller wrote: »

wrangler wrote: »

Defers the tax bill you mean, learning a bit about that at the moment......the hard way

OK must get some independent advice on that so.

That would be an interesting thread I save into accounts that have hardly any interest, I don't like risk. I'm not mad about paying a pension when its not garunteed and high management fees. It's an interesting topic

older by the day · 07-02-2019 09:03PM

Grueller wrote: »

wrangler wrote: »

Defers the tax bill you mean, learning a bit about that at the moment......the hard way

OK must get some independent advice on that so.

That would be an interesting thread I save into accounts that have hardly any interest, I don't like risk. I'm not mad about paying a pension when its not garunteed and high management fees. It's an interesting topic

Grueller · 07-02-2019 09:22PM

older by the day wrote: »

That would be an interesting thread I save into accounts that have hardly any interest, I don't like risk. I'm not mad about paying a pension when its not garunteed and high management fees. It's an interesting topic

I think the thing with pensions is not to panic when they drop as they will. There are high, medium and low risk funds. I am late 30s so am still in high risk funds. As time comes closer for draw down I will start moving towards low risk to cosolidate the funds.
The kicker in this is that 11 years ago the Irish banks were low risk. However the funds that were exposed to them have recovered as there was great value in the markets to be exploited. That is my limited understanding anyhow.

wrangler · 07-02-2019 09:24PM

older by the day wrote: »

That would be an interesting thread I save into accounts that have hardly any interest, I don't like risk. I'm not mad about paying a pension when its not garunteed and high management fees. It's an interesting topic

You get a percentage of your pension in a lumpsum taxfree but the pension itself is taxed so putting it in a pension to save tax is a bit of a cod,

Grueller · 07-02-2019 09:30PM

wrangler wrote: »

You get a percentage of your pension in a lumpsum taxfree but the pension itself is taxed so putting it in a pension to save tax is a bit of a cod,

But if you and your spouse are over 65 the first 36k is tax free.
If you only have oap at €24000 between the 2 of you it means you can draw €12k tax free per annum from the pension. That is over 3 times what a paye worker gets tax free so it will pay IF legislation stays the same. That is a big gamble for somebody my age.
Lakill will probably be along to correct me now.

wrangler · 07-02-2019 09:35PM

Grueller wrote: »

But if you and your spouse are over 65 the first 36k is tax free.
If you only have oap at €24000 between the 2 of you it means you can draw €12k tax free per annum from the pension. That is over 3 times what a paye worker gets tax free so it will pay IF legislation stays the same. That is a big gamble for somebody my age.
Lakill will probably be along to correct me now.

Surprised I haven't been told that, married to a PS :eek: so it's only polite to let her claim the pension

so we're over 36k and it won't be long till she's over 65, so it wasn't relevant

Sheep breeder · 07-02-2019 09:39PM

Grueller wrote: »

You have some horn for the young farmer Wrangler.
I work off farm but run 80 sucklers. I am a young farmer. I get all the top ups etc.
BUT I get up at 5:45 every morning, in the yard for 6:00. Out of it at 7:50. Back in it at 5:30 to 7:30-8:00 every evening. I work 7:00 til 6:00 on Saturdays and 7:00 til dinner time most Sundays.
This is the reality for me and most young farmers around my area. Yes my father helps out by keeping an eye on cows during the day but he does not calve them and I never meet him in the yard as he only potters out about 9:30 and does a bit of pottering about.
If payments were levelled maybe we couls afford to work off farm less and actually give farming a go. No? Much easier to criticise a whole group even though the ladder has been pulled up by the older farmers.

Fair play to you for driving on at what your doing, being down that road as well and own little amount of land and rented and built up numbers, sheds, new house, family and at one stage worked two jobs as well as farming and now only one job off farm.
Two things that I have learned in my time, first the farming organisations look after there own cronies and will screw everyone to suit themselves, example what the dairy men are at now.

Your health will suffer by working so hard and you slow down quicker, at present have bad hip, bone gone in one hand, knee in trouble and very little time for life.last time in Croke park 2006 and haven’t been to a the new Aviva stadium.

Who2 · 07-02-2019 09:40PM

Anyone think about forestry as a pension pot? say if you bought bad ground at 4k an acre, plant it claim the payments, then clear fell the lot in 30 years, pretty much tax free ex the usc and prsi.

Grueller · 07-02-2019 09:42PM

wrangler wrote: »

Surprised I haven't been told that, married to a PS :eek: so it's only polite to let her claim the pension so we're over 36k and it won't be long till she's over 65, so it wasn't relevant

On current life expectancies my generation should see averave ages of 85+ so it is something we need to educate ourselves on now. No point realising at 60 that the old age pension is reduced/gone and no contingency plan in place.

wrangler · 07-02-2019 09:50PM

Grueller wrote: »

On current life expectancies my generation should see averave ages of 85+ so it is something we need to educate ourselves on now. No point realising at 60 that the old age pension is reduced/gone and no contingency plan in place.

definitely, Irish old age pension can't last....NI is only half our OAP.
OH retired early and if she can prove that she had an input into the farm (which she has) since then she'll get the contributory pension as well.

memorystick · 07-02-2019 09:52PM

Who2 wrote: »

Anyone think about forestry as a pension pot? say if you bought bad ground at 4k an acre, plant it claim the payments, then clear fell the lot in 30 years, pretty much tax free ex the usc and prsi.

An advisor told me not to bother with pensions but to buy land or property. A neighbour of mine is starting to draw back his pension and he's barely getting a return on his money. He regrets not buying more land or a house.

farawaygrass · 07-02-2019 10:03PM

Funny the pension talk is brought up, I got forms out in the post just this week to start one. I’m 33 btw. It’s a gamble, but I’m only planning on maybe €25 p/w for now. Won’t break me, and when have more of the farm set up I can up it then-they day to start early even if it’s a small amount. What would the typical amount people would pay in?

Who2 · 07-02-2019 10:04PM

memorystick wrote: »

An advisor told me not to bother with pensions but to buy land or property. A neighbour of mine is starting to draw back his pension and he's barely getting a return on his money. He regrets not buying more land or a house.

Houses arnt what they were from a rental perspective, the taxes and regs ruins that option. The only issue i can see with the land is, will you really cash it in? There might be someone holding your hand telling you what a great job you made of the place and it would be a pity to split it up.

_Brian · 07-02-2019 10:12PM

Was lucky and got a job with pension at 23, in 13 years with my contribution, voluntary contrib, bonus I have equivalent of 30 years payments.

Letlft the job so cant add to it but fingers crossed it will be something half decent to go along with my contributory when the day comes.

Or it will give me something less if I wanted to retire early, which would be the plan for both myself and herself, neither of us have huge longevity in our family so not going to push our luck too far.

wrangler · 07-02-2019 10:20PM

Who2 wrote: »

Houses arnt what they were from a rental perspective, the taxes and regs ruins that option. The only issue i can see with the land is, will you really cash it in? There might be someone holding your hand telling you what a great job you made of the place and it would be a pity to split it up.

Make them buy it

Grueller · 07-02-2019 11:14PM

Bit of back seat modding here, but the pension talk is interesting but irrelevant to the bpm. Any chance of splitting to 2 threads.

older by the day · 08-02-2019 01:47AM

If anyone was at a Mart lately, anyone would think farmers were only pensioners. I commented that to a friend of mine, he agreed a lot of the Mart goers had lost it above stairs and a lot have lost it below, most have lost the drive in both places.

Cavanjack · 08-02-2019 07:23AM

older by the day wrote: »

If anyone was at a Mart lately, anyone would think farmers were only pensioners. I commented that to a friend of mine, he agreed a lot of the Mart goers had lost it above stairs and a lot have lost it below, most have lost the drive in both places.

Many mart goers have lost the ability to count as well as there seems to be no relevance in the store and weanling trade to the beef price at present .

wrangler · 08-02-2019 08:11AM

Cavanjack wrote: »

Many mart goers have lost the ability to count as well as there seems to be no relevance in the store and weanling trade to the beef price at present .

A lot buying at this time of year don't care whether they make money or not as long as they don't lose money, I've a neighbour that does it and does alright.
He gets about €300/hd in subs but would also make money on the stock
but it does distort the trade, nice for those that are targetting supplying that trade

Muckit · 08-02-2019 10:05AM

Grueller wrote: »

Bit of back seat modding here, but the pension talk is interesting but irrelevant to the bpm. Any chance of splitting to 2 threads.

A planning for retirement/pensions thread would be a great idea

memorystick · 08-02-2019 12:08PM

Who2 wrote: »

Houses arnt what they were from a rental perspective, the taxes and regs ruins that option. The only issue i can see with the land is, will you really cash it in? There might be someone holding your hand telling you what a great job you made of the place and it would be a pity to split it up.

If you have one that is debt free, then they're a nice little earner. I would think bad of selling it.

Bass Reeves · 08-02-2019 12:53PM

memorystick wrote: »

If you have one that is debt free, then they're a nice little earner. I would think bad of selling it.

Renting houses is all about yield. Too many that got into it were only thinking of capital appreciation and bought at wrong time. Unless yield is above 8% and ideally above 10-12% you are in a high risk game.

Bass Reeves · 08-02-2019 12:56PM

Cavanjack wrote: »

Many mart goers have lost the ability to count as well as there seems to be no relevance in the store and weanling trade to the beef price at present .

It is another of the reasons I got out of winter finishing. It was too expensive to but replacements in the spring and this left no margin from winter finishing. Invariably you ended up carrying you summer cattle as well to turn a margin and this drove nitrates above the 170 mark. It is a lot easier to just carry stores to finish in the summer or early autumn.

Who2 · 08-02-2019 09:03PM

memorystick wrote: »

If you have one that is debt free, then they're a nice little earner. I would think bad of selling it.

It’s not that simple anymore, you loose a fair share in personal taxes, property tax and maintenance then with all the rules if you end up with a non payer it’ll take 8 to 10 months to get them out legally.

memorystick · 08-02-2019 09:44PM

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Renting houses is all about yield. Too many that got into it were only thinking of capital appreciation and bought at wrong time. Unless yield is above 8% and ideally above 10-12% you are in a high risk game.

High risk!!!! Have you ever tried farming????

memorystick · 08-02-2019 09:46PM

Who2 wrote: »

It’s not that simple anymore, you loose a fair share in personal taxes, property tax and maintenance then with all the rules if you end up with a non payer it’ll take 8 to 10 months to get them out legally.

I don't know but the tenant we have is over ten years there and it seems to be working out.

farawaygrass · 08-02-2019 10:28PM

A good tenant is worth at least a couple of hundred a month

Who2 · 08-02-2019 11:01PM

farawaygrass wrote: »

A good tenant is worth at least a couple of hundred a month

The problem is they are few and far between, unless the house is rising in value or your properties are bought and paid for in Dublin then in the vast majority of cases rental will end up costing money. As bad as farming is I can currently make it work better than house rental.

Beef Plan Movement (READ OP BEFORE POSTING)

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