Beef Plan Movement (READ OP BEFORE POSTING)

wrangler

Robson99 wrote: »

Its the stop start of it thats my main gripe. Killed a couple of heifers 500kgs + carcass last spring no problem... happy to get them... have you any more of them... now they cut me over 420 kgs
Imagine you killed lambs and no weight limit. Then you have 10 to kill 26 kg carcass and when you bring them down you are told sorry 21.5 kg limit... would you think fair enough they just drawing the line.. I doubt it

I wouldn't be caught with overweight sheep again, That's for sure. Do you not think you're taking a risk feeding to that weight and you have to take the fall, they are the first to be cut every time there was a glut.
I was sick warning farmers about bulls in 2012 and they just laughed at me, like you they were talking about 500kgs bulls the previous spring but the factories were warning us to talk to the factories before committing to feeding bulls....everyone knew that year the numbers were high for the end of the year,
Since then they've been talking about 400kg max, you were lucky to get your 500kg ones off

gerryirl

Look we can all agree or disagree.. talk ****e while we are in it but the simple facts are there for us all to see.
Price is sh1t
4 movements,
30 months
and now to top it all off the factories are making up the weight limits cut off

We are hearing they dont want the dairy beef yet by having a dead weight cut off point of 430kgs is killing the proper suckler farmer who breads top quality cattle.
I mean to be feeding cattle meal and then bring them to the factory and get cut for over weight Im sorry but thats the final insult. They are constantly moving the goalposts. What does the weight cut make out of this 5 star rubbish and now pay you to weight the calves, for what so they can move the goal posts again.
430kg dead weight would be give or take 750kgs live. Thats not a huge animal by any means.. what do the fookers want, dexters. I have cattle in the shed I was going to kill when out to grass but Im as well sell them in a mart in the next month. They will all be over 430kg dead come mid summer. Im as well let some other sucker get shafted

wrangler

gerryirl wrote: »

Look we can all agree or disagree.. talk ****e while we are in it but the simple facts are there for us all to see.
Price is sh1t
4 movements,
30 months
and now to top it all off the factories are making up the weight limits cut off

We are hearing they dont want the dairy beef yet by having a dead weight cut off point of 430kgs is killing the proper suckler farmer who breads top quality cattle.
I mean to be feeding cattle meal and then bring them to the factory and get cut for over weight Im sorry but thats the final insult. They are constantly moving the goalposts. What does the weight cut make out of this 5 star rubbish and now pay you to weight the calves, for what so they can move the goal posts again.
430kg dead weight would be give or take 750kgs live. Thats not a huge animal by any means.. what do the fookers want, dexters. I have cattle in the shed I was going to kill when out to grass but Im as well sell them in a mart in the next month. They will all be over 430kg dead come mid summer. Im as well let some other sucker get shafted

I was talikng to a farmer today that has started breeding herefords out of charolais cows, sold them at 15mths after 90 days feeding for €1400, sounds better than most systems

gerryirl

wrangler wrote: »

I was talikng to a farmer today that has started breeding herefords out of charolais cows, sold them at 15mths after 90 days feeding for €1400, sounds better than most systems

Seriously something like that is the way to go. Fair play to him.. that's bulls im guessing.

Robson99

gerryirl wrote: »

Look we can all agree or disagree.. talk ****e while we are in it but the simple facts are there for us all to see.
Price is sh1t
4 movements,
30 months
and now to top it all off the factories are making up the weight limits cut off

We are hearing they dont want the dairy beef yet by having a dead weight cut off point of 430kgs is killing the proper suckler farmer who breads top quality cattle.
I mean to be feeding cattle meal and then bring them to the factory and get cut for over weight Im sorry but thats the final insult. They are constantly moving the goalposts. What does the weight cut make out of this 5 star rubbish and now pay you to weight the calves, for what so they can move the goal posts again.
430kg dead weight would be give or take 750kgs live. Thats not a huge animal by any means.. what do the fookers want, dexters. I have cattle in the shed I was going to kill when out to grass but Im as well sell them in a mart in the next month. They will all be over 430kg dead come mid summer. Im as well let some other sucker get shafted

Great post.
There will be no problem with their own out of the feedlots being 420 kg+ carcass weights.
As well as the IFA being useless for the Suckler farmer the Continental Breed Society's never seem to raise a voice to support beef farmers. A lot of continental breeds are a waste of money killing sub 420kgs,

wrangler

gerryirl wrote: »

Seriously something like that is the way to go. Fair play to him.. that's bulls im guessing.

yea, he said they'have the right fat cover from a year old, you could sell them anytime if you were stuck.
He also passed the remark that he'd get nothing for them if he wanted to sell them as weanlings

wrangler

Robson99 wrote: »

Great post.
There will be no problem with their own out of the feedlots being 420 kg+ carcass weights.
As well as the IFA being useless for the Suckler farmer the Continental Breed Society's never seem to raise a voice to support beef farmers. A lot of continental breeds are a waste of money killing sub 420kgs,

Why would they produce something that's a bitch to sell, they'd have the best of ways to produce what the market requires.
Feeding proper rations would be no problem to them and do it right

Bass Reeves

wrangler wrote: »

I was talikng to a farmer today that has started breeding herefords out of charolais cows, sold them at 15mths after 90 days feeding for €1400, sounds better than most systems

I have often advocated this system to lads, the use of traditional bulls on good quality Contenintal Cross cows. Most do not want to consider it. While some have not got the land quality to finish such cattle and as you said selling as weanling's is not an option. I presume they were killed in May/June last year. As young bulls they would grade R-/R= so have achieved a grid price with HE bonus of of 4.3-4.4/kg( 4.1-4.2 base price+12c QA+ 10-20c HE bonus+3c for grading R-/R=). They would have killed 325kgd DW. May not have eaten huge quanties of ration either. Maybe came off the cow at 350 kgs in October.

Issue might be the heifers if you could finish them in August at 270 is Dw and they came into 1100 euro the system might be feasible. Cow should be lower maintenance that a big CH or LM cow with good fertility and milk

Robson99 wrote: »

Great post.
There will be no problem with their own out of the feedlots being 420 kg+ carcass weights.
As well as the IFA being useless for the Suckler farmer the Continental Breed Society's never seem to raise a voice to support beef farmers. A lot of continental breeds are a waste of money killing sub 420kgs,

Wrangler is right on this any contracted cattle I saw over the years were i killing around the 300-350 kgs. Saw a lot of heifers that I would have considered border line over fat.

patsy_mccabe

wrangler wrote: »

I was talikng to a farmer today that has started breeding herefords out of charolais cows, sold them at 15mths after 90 days feeding for €1400, sounds better than most systems

He would have been a lot better doing it the other way around, Hereford cows and a char bull. Cows would have been easier kept and a lot more milk. You still end up with the same calf. (Not including bonuses anyway.)

Bass Reeves

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

He would have been a lot better doing it the other way around, Hereford cows and a char bull. Cows would have been easier kept and a lot more milk. You still end up with the same calf.

Cow would need to be pedigree to attain HE bonus. Product would not be as saleable. IMO using a milky cow LMXFR might actually achieve a highr DW at sub 16 months. I imagine that he had the cows in the herd already and just changed bulls. By changing to a LMXFR, CHXFR or SIXFR the DW of bulls might be pused up towards 350kg mark as bulls would be heavier coming off cows in October so a lot of the heavy lifting could be done by the cow. If calves were 350 at weaning a housing weight of 400 should nearly be achieveable in Early December. Hitting a LW of 650 in late May would give a DW of 350 kgs and would bring the carcasse value into 1470 euro. As I said it the heifers that would be the issue. Could you kill them at 250++ in August other wise it is down the high cost route of killing before or after Christmass

wrangler

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

He would have been a lot better doing it the other way around, Hereford cows and a char bull. Cows would have been easier kept and a lot more milk. You still end up with the same calf. (Not including bonuses anyway.)

His situation I'd imagine is that his sucklers were continental and he wanted something that'd be near the spec required, He'd be my age group and a very good farmer so wasn't going to do anything radical.
He's very pleased with the way they turned out.

bogman_bass

Robson99 wrote: »

But why bother having an extra 30 cent on the grid for an E grade animal if the market doesn't want it.

For the answer to that you have to look at the other end of the scale. The penalty for a P grade is much bigger than the bonus for a U grade.

It’s a tool to keep dairy bred animals cheep

wrangler

bogman_bass wrote: »

For the answer to that you have to look at the other end of the scale. The penalty for a P grade is much bigger than the bonus for a U grade.

It’s a tool to keep dairy bred animals cheep

Is there not a meat yield advantage with the E over the P, I thought the grid was based on meat yield, I think if it was done again now the bonus should be bigger for the E and the penalty larger for the P.

K9

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Cow would need to be pedigree to attain HE bonus. Product would not be as saleable. IMO using a milky cow LMXFR might actually achieve a highr DW at sub 16 months. I imagine that he had the cows in the herd already and just changed bulls. By changing to a LMXFR, CHXFR or SIXFR the DW of bulls might be pused up towards 350kg mark as bulls would be heavier coming off cows in October so a lot of the heavy lifting could be done by the cow. If calves were 350 at weaning a housing weight of 400 should nearly be achieveable in Early December. Hitting a LW of 650 in late May would give a DW of 350 kgs and would bring the carcasse value into 1470 euro. As I said it the heifers that would be the issue. Could you kill them at 250++ in August other wise it is down the high cost route of killing before or after Christmass

390 kg dw should be minimum target for u16 bulls. Not sure if he bonus is available on bulls.

charolais0153

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Cow would need to be pedigree to attain HE bonus. Product would not be as saleable. IMO using a milky cow LMXFR might actually achieve a highr DW at sub 16 months. I imagine that he had the cows in the herd already and just changed bulls. By changing to a LMXFR, CHXFR or SIXFR the DW of bulls might be pused up towards 350kg mark as bulls would be heavier coming off cows in October so a lot of the heavy lifting could be done by the cow. If calves were 350 at weaning a housing weight of 400 should nearly be achieveable in Early December. Hitting a LW of 650 in late May would give a DW of 350 kgs and would bring the carcasse value into 1470 euro. As I said it the heifers that would be the issue. Could you kill them at 250++ in August other wise it is down the high cost route of killing before or after Christmass

Last bull we killed was ch x si snd was 80bkgs heavier liveweight and also 80kgs heavier deadweight. Really shows how much more efficient a continental is

memorystick

Bass Reeves wrote: »

There is a perception out there that the processors want E&U grade cattle. IMO it is only that a perception. They want them to fill a gap in the winter finishing system at 360 kgs DW and even at that it is not the E and U grade they want. When cattle get scarce they will flat price P and O- cattle before they will improve the upper end price. It is interesting at present they seem to be mad looking for light AA cattle and will if lads have a lot of cattle to be killed they will take these AA cattle first.

What factories are taking these AA stock because I can't get lads to come look let alone take them.

Hard Knocks

wrangler wrote: »

His situation I'd imagine is that his sucklers were continental and he wanted something that'd be near the spec required, He'd be my age group and a very good farmer so wasn't going to do anything radical.
He's very pleased with the way they turned out.

Local farmer did that her with AS when the scheme started & went organic too, said he never made as much money
But when his CH cows were gone there was a big drop in the quality of his calves & he didn’t do as good

Cavanjack

wrangler wrote: »

Is there not a meat yield advantage with the E over the P, I thought the grid was based on meat yield, I think if it was done again now the bonus should be bigger for the E and the penalty larger for the P.

If they want lighter carcasses then they should pay for them. I think if they are serious about it they should give a high base price for an r= or a r+ with a weight spec too of no more than 400kg. If you grade higher or lower than this you get penalised.
This won't happen though because they do want the heavy cattle and just don't want to pay for them.

wrangler

Cavanjack wrote: »

If they want lighter carcasses then they should pay for them. I think if they are serious about it they should give a high base price for an r= or a r+ with a weight spec too of no more than 400kg. If you grade higher or lower than this you get penalised.
This won't happen though because they do want the heavy cattle and just don't want to pay for them.

Isn't there a good bonus for Rs over Os, I don't know how much (i wouldn't have a lot of interest) plus QA, I think most farmers don't want the grades split again.
These are independent businesses, they set the specs, it's as simple as that.
With sheep we don't get paid over the weight limit and I know for a fact that overweight lambs go to a premium market but that's their business, once the lamb goes up the ramp it's their lamb to maximise.
Begrudging them their profit is only childish, but I weigh every week they only get gms free meat off me

Cavanjack

wrangler wrote: »

Isn't there a good bonus for Rs over Os, I don't know how much (i wouldn't have a lot of interest) plus QA, I think most farmers don't want the grades split again.
These are independent businesses, they set the specs, it's as simple as that.
With sheep we don't get paid over the weight limit and I know for a fact that overweight lambs go to a premium market but that's their business, once the lamb goes up the ramp it's their lamb to maximise.
Begrudging them their profit is only childish, but I weigh every week they only get gms free meat off me

6 cent difference but why are u grades paid a higher price when that's what they don't want?

older by the day

wrangler wrote: »

Cavanjack wrote: »

If they want lighter carcasses then they should pay for them. I think if they are serious about it they should give a high base price for an r= or a r+ with a weight spec too of no more than 400kg. If you grade higher or lower than this you get penalised.
This won't happen though because they do want the heavy cattle and just don't want to pay for them.

Isn't there a good bonus for Rs over Os, I don't know how much (i wouldn't have a lot of interest) plus QA, I think most farmers don't want the grades split again.
These are independent businesses, they set the specs, it's as simple as that.
With sheep we don't get paid over the weight limit and I know for a fact that overweight lambs go to a premium market but that's their business, once the lamb goes up the ramp it's their lamb to maximise.
Begrudging them their profit is only childish, but I weigh every week they only get gms free meat off me

Jays for a man that don't have a lot of interest, you get a real hard on when any posts any praise for the beef plan movement. There is a meeting in bantry tomorrow night. (Thursday night).

wrangler

Cavanjack wrote: »

6 cent difference but why are u grades paid a higher price when that's what they don't want?

When are they saying they don't want U grades. very decent of them to pay extra fr something they don't want

wrangler

older by the day wrote: »

Jays for a man that don't have a lot of interest, you get a real hard on when any posts any praise for the beef plan movement. There is a meeting in bantry tomorrow night. (Thursday night).

Beef farmers will hang them too, remember where you heard that :cool:

gerryirl

wrangler wrote: »

When are they saying they don't want U grades. very decent of them to pay extra fr something they don't want

your forgetting there paying you in one hand and taking it with the other. Get 12 cent bonus and take 10 cent for them being over weight then.

Its a bit like the three card trick. They fool you into thinking your following the right one and then BANG its the wrong card and your moneys gone. Only thing farming aint a game for us all its real life

wrangler

gerryirl wrote: »

your forgetting there paying you in one hand and taking it with the other. Get 12 cent bonus and take 10 cent for them being over weight then.

Its a bit like the three card trick. They fool you into thinking your following the right one and then BANG its the wrong card and your moneys gone. Only thing farming aint a game for us all its real life

You'll have to give them what they want, You buy a newholland, and they give you a zetor and ask you to pay same price you'd say WTF.....that's what you're doing to the processors.

gerryirl

wrangler wrote: »

You'll have to give them what they want, You buy a newholland, and they give you a zetor and ask you to pay same price you'd say WTF.....that's what you're doing to the processors.

Sure don't I know . I'm buying new holland cattle but getting MF 20 prices not even zetor

wrangler

gerryirl wrote: »

Sure don't I know . I'm buying new holland cattle but getting MF 20 prices not even zetor

Beef is the pit's but it's the same across Europe. future is very bleak for it

Bass Reeves

Cavanjack wrote: »

If they want lighter carcasses then they should pay for them. I think if they are serious about it they should give a high base price for an r= or a r+ with a weight spec too of no more than 400kg. If you grade higher or lower than this you get penalised.
This won't happen though because they do want the heavy cattle and just don't want to pay for them.

They have a market for a limited number of heavier carcasses. Most go to the Contenintal market. However the issue is the steaks (sirloin, striploin ) are not suitable for any premium market. As well the cuts are too big to make suitable cuts for smaller roasting joints. It ends up being sold off as a commodity product. I agree that there should be a bonus for lighter carcasses however the weight spec will be way lower than 400kgs and the higher the grade the lower the weight as steaks are larger.

wrangler wrote: »

Isn't there a good bonus for Rs over Os, I don't know how much (i wouldn't have a lot of interest) plus QA, I think most farmers don't want the grades split again.
These are independent businesses, they set the specs, it's as simple as that.
With sheep we don't get paid over the weight limit and I know for a fact that overweight lambs go to a premium market but that's their business, once the lamb goes up the ramp it's their lamb to maximise.
Begrudging them their profit is only childish, but I weigh every week they only get gms free meat off me

They set the specs yes but the issue is that prime inspec beef is being access at really low prices. At present we are near at the price of polish and Netherlands beef for steers but the real killer is Irish Bulls are below the price for Netherlands and Polish bulls at present. If they were paying nearer the UK price for prime inspec beef grand but they are having both ways at present.

There is no appetite for changing grid differencials as it will cheapen the O grade beef that is well inspec for UK supermarket trade. They are at present accessing O- steers at 3.33/kg when you take the grid and the vat rebate into account.

Never wrestle with pigs

What the feck is going on. Potentially 4 thousand cattle to be exported and it's stopped because of a visa. Who's running the sh1t show. Someone needs to be held accountable for this.

Reggie.

Never wrestle with pigs wrote: »

What the feck is going on. Potentially 4 thousand cattle to be exported and it's stopped because of a visa. Who's running the sh1t show. Someone needs to be held accountable for this.

Usual bull****