Pope Francis offered $1m to go vegan for Lent ...

seamus · 07-02-2019 10:07AM

silverharp wrote: »

vegansiam in the US started as an anti masturbation movement in the US mixed in with garden of edan mumbojumbo back in the 19th century

So did breakfast cereal.

Unearthly · 07-02-2019 10:08AM

Farmers now calling it a cult. Seems this stunt has them rattled in the boglands :pac:

gozunda · 07-02-2019 10:11AM

DubInMeath wrote: »

...
In relation to board bia, meat and dairy are a business, and their advertising their products to a privileged society, no different than the makers of vegan convenience food. So if you have a problem with members of a privileged society wanting people to go vegan, I assume you have a problem with members of the same society wanting people to eat meat and dairy?

Whoa there. If think you are trying to suggest that somehow that Ireland is somehow a 'privileged' society because much of our agriculture production is restricted by our climate and topography then you are barking up the wrong tree.

In ireland extensive livestock type farming is practised as it takes advantage of the one crop which grows best in Irish conditions - which is grass. Humans can't eat grass but livestock can and they in turn provide us with a range of good sources of protein and other essential nutrients.

Many many other countries world wide including poor and developing countries also depend on livestock for their foodstuffs and livelihoods. Does that make them privileged? Like fek it does.

Bord Bia is a national agency which supports indigenous production and foodstuffs here.
Whatever you may think of the promotion of Irish produce - It is no way comparable to some mega corporation pushing its highly processed products made up of cheap ingredients flown from around the world and often sourced in regions with few if any environmental or ethical controls by buying off the Pope. So no I don't have problems with Bord Bia and it's role in improving and supporting Irish foods. I do have problems with large multi-national corporations hell bent on buying their way into an ideology.

No doubt I'll have someone along shortly telling me that I must work for them or similar. The answer is no I don't. If you want to advocate for changes in diet by all means do so - but don't attack those who support irish agriculture and food production because it doesn't match your dietary preferences

VeryTerry · 07-02-2019 11:50AM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Do you care about people’s feeling now ?

Depends who's feelings we're talking about.

silverharp · 07-02-2019 12:24PM

seamus wrote: »

So did breakfast cereal.

true, kellogs was connected to this

07-02-2019 07:38PM

VeryTerry wrote: »

How do you think they would have felt if the rich lad up the road suggested they should go vegan?

They were practically vegetarian as it was, and sure anyone can suggest someone try anything doesn't mean that they have to, the rich lad up the road couldn't care less about them.
Also nothing in the article says that people in developing countries go vegan. Could you provide data to back up your claim regarding eating or not of bush meat?

I have only been in Mali and from what I seen out in rural areas and from talking to the guides hunt for most of their meat.

scamalert · 07-02-2019 07:51PM

Unearthly wrote: »

Farmers now calling it a cult. Seems this stunt has them rattled in the boglands :pac:

crazy talk get some protein into you :pac:

all this vegan b $hit, most likely contributes that we reached point in civilized countries where most people can afford meat as their daily intake, as most 3rd countries in the world its to expensive, so they subsitute most of the meat for veg, look at places like india, people dont eat meat there because they make fckn 1$ a day at best not because their all into rice and beans crap.

I would understand if people were able to live off veg themselves, but no way person would survive up to age 5 on $hit like veg alone.

As looking online what vegans or vegetarians eat daily is pathethic, salad mixed with curry some $hit just to make it go down the throat, eating peanuts beans and other crap just to get some fibers in - not much far from brainwashed following.

its like were back into 70s hippy types that got replaced with hipsters and no weed situation now, dont think it will last long.

07-02-2019 07:53PM

gozunda wrote: »

Whoa there. If think you are trying to suggest that somehow that Ireland is somehow a 'privileged' society because much of our agriculture production is restricted by our climate and topography then you are barking up the wrong tree.

In ireland extensive livestock type farming is practised as it takes advantage of the one crop which grows best in Irish conditions - which is grass. Humans can't eat grass but livestock can and they in turn provide us with a range of good sources of protein and other essential nutrients.

Many many other countries world wide including poor and developing countries also depend on livestock for their foodstuffs and livelihoods. Does that make them privileged? Like fek it does.

Bord Bia is a national agency which supports indigenous production and foodstuffs here.
Whatever you may think of the promotion of Irish produce - It is no way comparable to some mega corporation pushing its highly processed products made up of cheap ingredients flown from around the world and often sourced in regions with few if any environmental or ethical controls by buying off the Pope. So no I don't have problems with Bord Bia and it's role in improving and supporting Irish foods. I do have problems with large multi-national corporations hell bent on buying their way into an ideology.

No doubt I'll have someone along shortly telling me that I must work for them or similar. The answer is no I don't. If you want to advocate for changes in diet by all means do so - but don't attack those who support irish agriculture and food production because it doesn't match your dietary preferences

Again I'm not vegan I'm not the one obsessing about it.

Yes we are privileged to be able to afford meat on a daily basis we couldn't do so not that long ago.

Also board bia has international offices to promote Irish corporations and food stuffs and identify markets for the same and assisting with exports etc, no different than corporations doing the same except that it's a state body doing so on their behalf.

Unearthly · 07-02-2019 07:53PM

The fact you don't think there it's possible to get protein from plant based foods means you aren't worth engaging with

Plenty of nutritional information out there.

In fairness though to meat and dairy industry, the marketing of protein and the perception that it's mainly the only place to get protein is impressive

VeryTerry · 07-02-2019 08:23PM

DubInMeath wrote: »

They were practically vegetarian as it was, and sure anyone can suggest someone try anything doesn't mean that they have to, the rich lad up the road couldn't care less about them.
Also nothing in the article says that people in developing countries go vegan.

I never asked what the rich lad thought of your grandparents. I asked what they would think if while eating their wood pigeon he chimed in by telling them they shouldn't.

The Pope is the head of a lot of peoples religion in developing countries. I think it would be an absolute slap in the face for these people if the Pope was to take money from some rich ideological Americans to not eat any animal products while they struggle to eat at all.

DubInMeath wrote: »

Could you provide data to back up your claim regarding eating or not of bush meat?

I have only been in Mali and from what I seen out in rural areas and from talking to the guides hunt for most of their meat.

"Mali cuisine includes rice and millet as staples of Mali, a food culture heavily based on cereal grains.[1][2] Grains are generally prepared with sauces made from edible leaves, such as sweet potato or baobab, with tomato peanut sauce. The dishes may be accompanied by pieces of grilled meat (typically chicken, mutton, beef, or goat).[1][2]"

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malian_cuisine

There might be a tiny amount of bush meat eaten but clearly not enough to get a mention above.

In both the developing countries I lived in chicken was a staple for the vast majority of people. The idea that 77 million people in developing countries are regularly eating bush meat is daft.

gozunda · 07-02-2019 08:50PM

DubInMeath wrote: »

Again I'm not vegan I'm not the one obsessing about it.
Yes we are privileged to be able to afford meat on a daily basis we couldn't do so not that long ago.Also board bia has international offices to promote Irish corporations and food stuffs and identify markets for the same and assisting with exports etc, no different than corporations doing the same except that it's a state body doing so on their behalf.

Right I've had enough of that type of ****e. :mad: btw no mention of the word 'vegan' in that comment whatsoever. However as you brought it up - there's a vegan & vegetarian forum on Boards Where there are endless threads bashing farming, dairy, beef, farmers, you name it and so it continues even here without stop. And yet if anyone else dares starts a thread about corporate interests flogging plant based products using children, religion and the pope they get savaged as 'obsessing' about vegans. Wtf?

Our climate and topography dictate our type of Agriculture. There is nothing priviliged about it. Our living standards have improved so you can get over whatever hangups you have about a different generation to you. If not I suggest you walk every where and not rely on the privilege of using motorised transport, antibiotics or education as obviously previous generations didn't have any of those either.

Many marginal and not so marginalised societies around the world rely on animal farming. Does that not suit your personal ideology? Well tough! Wtf should we not be supporting own indiginous agriculture, what we can produce efficiently and help people here do the best they can?

Your chosen lifestyle as a "'vegan by association in terms of diet 99% of the time." (sic) depends on cheap imported food, the freedom to assume an identity and economic security and apparently results in nothing but bitter spite and hatred directed at those who don't hold your opinions...

07-02-2019 09:09PM

gozunda wrote: »

Right I've had enough of that type of ****e. :mad: There's a vegan & vegetarian forum on Boards Where there are endless threads bashing farming, dairy, beef, farmers, you name it and so it continues without stop. And yet if anyone else dares starts a thread about corporate interests flogging plant based products using children, religion and the pope they get savaged as 'obsessing' about vegans. Wtf?

Our climate and topography dictate our type of Agriculture. There is nothing priviliged about it. Our living standards have improved so you can get over whatever hangups you have about a different generation to you.

Many marginal and not so marginalised societies around the world rely on animal farming. Does that not suit your personal ideology? Well tough! Wtf should we not be supporting own indiginous agriculture, what we can produce efficiently and help people here do the best they can?

Your chosen lifestyle as a "'vegan by association in terms of diet 99% of the time." (sic) depends on cheap imported food, the freedom to assume an identity and economic security and apparently results in nothing but bitter spite and hatred directed at those who don't hold your opinions...

I think you're going off the deep end here lad, the steak I had last night to the veg are Irish.
Also having shared meals mean yeah 99% but that's my choice and the majority of the veg comes from my uncle's farm depending on the season.

You really seem to have an issue with people exercising choice that doesn't suit you which a lot of vegans can be guilty of too. Just goes to show plenty of angry people on both sides and as always their the ones who most just want to ignore.

gozunda · 07-02-2019 09:30PM

DubInMeath wrote: »

I think you're going off the deep end here lad, the steak I had last night to the veg are Irish.Also having shared meals mean yeah 99% but that's my choice and the majority of the veg comes from my uncle's farm depending on the season.You really seem to have an issue with people exercising choice that doesn't suit you which a lot of vegans can be guilty of too. Just goes to show plenty of angry people on both sides and as always their the ones who most just want to ignore.

My response was measured. And I've no problem with what anyone eats but what I do not like is the endless bulkskite being pushed as dictate and the endless attacks on those who voice an opinion about that. But yes you are correct. Ignoring the rubbish in your posts is to be recommended ...

07-02-2019 09:37PM

VeryTerry wrote: »

I never asked what the rich lad thought of your grandparents. I asked what they would think if while eating their wood pigeon he chimed in by telling them they shouldn't.

The Pope is the head of a lot of peoples religion in developing countries. I think it would be an absolute slap in the face for these people if the Pope was to take money from some rich ideological Americans to not eat any animal products while they struggle to eat at all.

"Mali cuisine includes rice and millet as staples of Mali, a food culture heavily based on cereal grains.[1][2] Grains are generally prepared with sauces made from edible leaves, such as sweet potato or baobab, with tomato peanut sauce. The dishes may be accompanied by pieces of grilled meat (typically chicken, mutton, beef, or goat).[1][2]"

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malian_cuisine

There might be a tiny amount of bush meat eaten but clearly not enough to get a mention above.

In both the developing countries I lived in chicken was a staple for the vast majority of people. The idea that 77 million people in developing countries are regularly eating bush meat is daft.

That's not what you said earlier, you simply said that African Catholics would be offended by the pope's arrogance at giving up meat for lent.

As to my grandparents they would have told someone to go and ****e with themselves but that's the same as for anyone today, we just have more choice in the food stuff available to us.

VeryTerry · 07-02-2019 09:41PM

DubInMeath wrote: »

That's not what you said earlier, you simply said that African Catholics would be offended by the pope's arrogance at giving up meat for lent.

It's exactly what I said earlier.

DubInMeath wrote: »

we just have more choice in the food stuff available to us.

We do. Lots don't.

07-02-2019 09:57PM

VeryTerry wrote: »

It's exactly what I said earlier.

We do. Lots don't.

Hang on in one post their eating chicken, goat and beef and in another they have hardly anything to eat.

It is obvious that unfortunately plenty of people in the developing world didn't have enough to eat. But to say that African Catholics would be offended by the pope giving up meat for lent is what you said earlier and as I pointed out its common for Catholics to do so for lent and not just for the proscribed days of abstinence doesn't hold much ground. Leaving aside the money aspect I'd say they would appreciate him giving up meat.

Noveight · 07-02-2019 09:58PM

$1m is focking pennies to the Catholic Church.

07-02-2019 09:59PM

gozunda wrote: »

My response was measured. And I've no problem with what anyone eats but what I do not like is the endless bulkskite being pushed as dictate and the endless attacks on those who voice an opinion about that. But yes you are correct. Ignoring the rubbish in your posts is to be recommended ...

Thanks for proving my point

gozunda · 07-02-2019 10:01PM

DubInMeath wrote: »

Thanks for proving my point

Cat trying to call the dog hairy arse :pac:
+klopp

VeryTerry · 08-02-2019 07:06AM

DubInMeath wrote: »

Hang on in one post their eating chicken, goat and beef and in another they have hardly anything to eat.

Nuance is lost on you I see. Having little food and eating meat aren't mutually exclusive. What little they do have to eat they eat. Whether it be grain or meat.

I get the impression you're being purposefully obtuse because your argument has been proven wrong be anyone that has engaged with you.

BeerWolf · 08-02-2019 07:43AM

Ain't that what religious people already do for Lent, fasting ..?

08-02-2019 05:33PM

VeryTerry wrote: »

Nuance is lost on you I see. Having little food and eating meat aren't mutually exclusive. What little they do have to eat they eat. Whether it be grain or meat.

I get the impression you're being purposefully obtuse because your argument has been proven wrong be anyone that has engaged with you.

No I was just pointing out where you're contradicting yourself.

gozunda · 08-02-2019 06:19PM

DubInMeath wrote: »

No I was just pointing out where you're contradicting yourself.

Nope they weren't. Is it that you believe everyone else is wrong or ?

09-02-2019 02:23AM

gozunda wrote: »

Nope they weren't. Is it that you believe everyone else is wrong or ?

Cat trying to call the dog hairy arse :pac:
+klopp to quote yourself.

I asked for data proving that bush meat isn't regularly eaten to back up his claims, got a Wikipedia link to the cuisine of Mali. Didn't need that as I was there and eaten it as well as some tasty rat done over an open fire when between villages.

He could have sent

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3237412/

Or

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bushmeat

And as I said in the rest of my post which was left out of the quote, I don't see African Catholics would find the pope arrogant for givinging up meat for lent as he claimed, and nowhere in the article provided in the op does it claim that anyone is telling people in the developing world to go vegan.

Personally I could give a ****e what anyone wants to eat or not eat, but while you say you don't have an issue with this either, your certainly like a dog with a bone when it comes to it.

gozunda · 09-02-2019 03:16AM

DubInMeath wrote: »

Cat trying to call the dog hairy arse ....

I asked for data proving that bush meat isn't regularly eaten to back up his claims, got a Wikipedia link to the cuisine of Mali. Didn't need that as I was there and eaten it as well as some tasty rat done over an open fire when between villages...

You've no idea what that really means do you? :pac:

I must say you're a great advocate for eating scrawny birds, rat etc. The stories are brilliant btw. Personally I don't give a flying monkies what anyone eats whether they live in Madagascar, Kuala Lumpur or Ballyhaunis. Its largely irrelevant to the thread topic. What I do not like is the endless bulkskite being pushed as dictate and the endless attacks on others.

And the same little dig dropped in once again lol. It really is quite hilarious - but its nearly always the same screaming ninjas + friends like to tell others they are not allowed to comment on certain topics. Funny the way freedom of expression only work for select groups. But there you go

But anyway back to the topic at hand let's ignore the current News where in the space of less than two weeks number of dodgy corporate interests are feeding us the same bs promoting the plant food industry and using influencers to do so in order to flogg highly processed ****e. This latest one using children, religion and the pope. Don't forget to try and shoot the messagners whilst you're at it.

Balanadan · 09-02-2019 07:38AM

It sounds like they're trying to hold the Pope to ransom. They appear to have allocated $1m, so will they punish charities by not donating the money if the Pope doesn't meet their demands?

09-02-2019 10:55AM

gozunda wrote: »

You've no idea what that really means do you? :pac:

I must say you're a great advocate for eating scrawny birds, rat etc. The stories are brilliant btw. Personally I don't give a flying monkies what anyone eats whether they live in Madagascar, Kuala Lumpur or Ballyhaunis. Its largely irrelevant to the thread topic. What I do not like is the endless bulkskite being pushed as dictate and the endless attacks on others.

And the same little dig dropped in once again lol. It really is quite hilarious - but its nearly always the same screaming ninjas + friends like to tell others they are not allowed to comment on certain topics. Funny the way freedom of expression only work for select groups. But there you go

But anyway back to the topic at hand let's ignore the current News where in the space of less than two weeks number of dodgy corporate interests are feeding us the same bs promoting the plant food industry and using influencers to do so in order to flogg highly processed ****e. This latest one using children, religion and the pope. Don't forget to try and shoot the messagners whilst you're at it.

Again It's advertising no different than the ones from board bia and the national dairy council and while you have argued that they support Irish agriculture, something I don't disagree with, they also assist corporations in their activities in relation to exports etc.

You don't like these companies using as you said using cheap imports to make their plant based products, or how they advertise, that is the economic system that we live under. Would you have prefer to live under the now non existent Soviet system because no farmer I've ever known would.

Also your saying these vegan companies are dodgy corporate industries, can you give links to show they are. If you mean the likes of Nestle or Unilever who are starting to produce more vegan products sure they have been doing the same with meat and dairy products for decades.

gozunda · 09-02-2019 11:04AM

DubInMeath wrote: »

Again It's advertising no different than the ones from board bia and the national dairy council and while you have argued that they support Irish agriculture, something I don't disagree with, they also assist corporations in their activities in relation to exports etc.You don't like these companies using as you said cheap imports to make their plant based products, or how they advertise, that is the economic system that we live under. Would you have prefer to live under the now non existent Soviet system because no farmer I've ever known would.Also your saying these vegan companies are dodgy corporate industries, can you give links to show they are. If you mean the likes of Nestle or Unilever who are starting to produce more vegan products sure they have been doing the same with meat and dairy products for decades.

Fair enough, however if you want to start a thread bashing Bord Bia or whatever then please do so. Bord Bia is not a large multi national corporation. Of note it supports native horticulture, fishery as well as the meat and dairy farmers and helps improve standards. Such as this https://www.bordbia.ie/industry/farmers/quality/pages/sustainabledairyassurancescheme.aspx And yes It also helps market all those products for Irish farmers and producers.

Theres nothing fecking 'vegan' about many of those multinational corporate interests - except bandwagoning and just the bottom line of flogging the cheapest ****e possible to as many as possible. They don't care about local production or employment, or even in many cases the environmental or ethical conditions of where or how food is produced. Follow the money and you'll most likely find your answer.

Interesting article here. https://www.mouthymoney.co.uk/how-vegan-evangelists-are-propping-up-the-ultra-processed-food-industry/

09-02-2019 06:04PM

gozunda wrote: »

Fair enough, however if you want to start a thread bashing Bord Bia or whatever then please do so. Bord Bia is not a large multi national corporation. Of note it supports native horticulture, fishery as well as the meat and dairy farmers and helps improve standards. Such as this https://www.bordbia.ie/industry/farmers/quality/pages/sustainabledairyassurancescheme.aspx And yes It also helps market all those products for Irish farmers and producers.

Theres nothing fecking 'vegan' about many of those multinational corporate interests - except bandwagoning and just the bottom line of flogging the cheapest ****e possible to as many as possible. They don't care about local production or employment, or even in many cases the environmental or ethical conditions of where or how food is produced. Follow the money and you'll most likely find your answer.

Interesting article here. https://www.mouthymoney.co.uk/how-vegan-evangelists-are-propping-up-the-ultra-processed-food-industry/

Where did I say I have an issue with bord bia, no where so why would I be starting a thread bashing them?

The companies caring about local employment and ethics, again the economic system we live under but caring about such items has often been a thing vegans are ridiculed for. If you want more employment opportunities for rural Ireland, couldn't agree more but it's your local politicians that you want to talk to.

Environmental issues exist at all levels of food production. Something which is not exclusive to the vegan diet, same thing could be said about someone sitting down to a takeaway or Dominos tonight for dinner, but I can't see farming going back to pre war methods and levels of production and the population being willing to pay the additional costs involved.

Dakota Dan · 09-02-2019 09:51PM

VeryTerry wrote: »

You're going to have a stroke if you keep thinking about vegans every minute of every day.

The irony, vegans can’t stop talking about meat.

Pope Francis offered $1m to go vegan for Lent ...

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