6n 2019 Scotland Vs Ireland build up thread

troyzer · 05-02-2019 9:02pm #1

Please don't mention he-who-must-not-be-named.

Hard to know which way this one is going to go. Scotland are at least as badly injured as Ireland and completely fell apart in the last quarter against Italy.

Will Ireland be on the warpath after a stinging loss or will they be wounded and playing with a lack of confidence?

As of this post, PP have Ireland at -7. That's really good value on +7 for Scotland in my book.

Zzippy · 05-02-2019 9:55pm

Zebo. Right, that's that out of the way. No one is to mention him in this thread. Zero tolerance policy remains in place.

troyzer · 05-02-2019 9:56pm

Zzippy wrote: »

Zebo. Right, that's that out of the way. No one is to mention him in this thread. Zero tolerance policy remains in place.

Hear hear!

swiwi_ · 05-02-2019 10:03pm

Questions for Schmidt I would have.

Is Best really the option? it's a big step to drop the captain etc, so I'm sure he'll be named, but it reminds a bit of SA and the John Smit situation. I personally think Scannell is the best option with Cronin getting the last 30 minutes or so.

Options that make the pack more "bulky" such as Ruddock and Leavy also reduce the lineout options. With the locking stocks severely depleted, I wouldn't rush to ditch the likes of POM.

Careful thought needs to go into the makeup of the back 3. From what I've seen, Addison looks a very good player, I would have him somewhere in the 23.

Cat will really be among the pigeons if Ireland go 0-2, especially given this match will be repeated in a few months. It's just as big a test for Scotland as it is for Ireland IMO, definitely the match of the weekend, as anything involving Italy is a yawnfest, and I don't see France beating England at Twickenham.

Perifect · 05-02-2019 10:10pm

15. Larmour
14. Earls
13. Henshaw
12. Aki
11. Stockdale
10. Sexton
9. Cooney
8. Conan
7. Van Der Flier
6. O'Mahony
5. Dillane
4. Ryan
3. Furlong
2. Scannell
1. Healy

thebaz · 05-02-2019 10:14pm

swiwi_ wrote: »

Questions for Schmidt I would have.

Is Best really the option? it's a big step to drop the captain etc,

I'd certainly like Cronin given a go , hopefully Best will return to form - in fact, would like a bit of expermintation - Carberry/Cooney/Larmour to full back , Addison in centre - maybe give Porter a go , a back row of van der Flier/SOB/Conan . second row is a worry - Dillane to partner Ryan

troyzer · 05-02-2019 10:16pm

swiwi_ wrote: »

Questions for Schmidt I would have.

Is Best really the option? it's a big step to drop the captain etc, so I'm sure he'll be named, but it reminds a bit of SA and the John Smit situation. I personally think Scannell is the best option with Cronin getting the last 30 minutes or so.

Options that make the pack more "bulky" such as Ruddock and Leavy also reduce the lineout options. With the locking stocks severely depleted, I wouldn't rush to ditch the likes of POM.

Careful thought needs to go into the makeup of the back 3. From what I've seen, Addison looks a very good player, I would have him somewhere in the 23.

Cat will really be among the pigeons if Ireland go 0-2, especially given this match will be repeated in a few months. It's just as big a test for Scotland as it is for Ireland IMO, definitely the match of the weekend, as anything involving Italy is a yawnfest, and I don't see France beating England at Twickenham.

Are we really losing much if Best isn't in the team from a leadership perspective? There was zero on display on Saturday anyway.

Is Leavy healthy? I haven't seen an update and he hasn't played since before Christmas. The best way to manage him back would be against Southern Kings next week, then Italy the following week.

An 0-2 start would be a disaster.

ClanofLams · 05-02-2019 10:20pm

Best has proven himself repeatedly. Excellent display against NZ only a couple of months ago and he was far from the only one who struggled on Saturday. Not saying he's a certainty to start in the World Cup but he's more than enough credit in the bank to retain his place this week.

troyzer · 05-02-2019 10:21pm

ClanofLams wrote: »

Best has proven himself repeatedly. Excellent display against NZ only a couple of months ago and he was far from the only one who struggled on Saturday. Not saying he's a certainty to start in the World Cup but he's more than enough credit in the bank to retain his place this week.

I think you're right, he has a few more mediocre performances before Joe weighs up his options.

Best is still capable of great performances but his form this season has been inconsistent.

Squidgy Black · 05-02-2019 10:26pm

troyzer wrote: »

Are we really losing much if Best isn't in the team from a leadership perspective? There was zero on display on Saturday anyway.

Is Leavy healthy? I haven't seen an update and he hasn't played since before Christmas. The best way to manage him back would be against Southern Kings next week, then Italy the following week.

An 0-2 start would be a disaster.

Who takes up the captaincy if Best doesn't play? All it takes is Scotland to target Johnny and get him riled up like Munster did, or pull a Sinckler and have POM lose the head.

Leavy was still declared unfit last week with his calf, but who do you bring him in for, VdF? POM?

POM has to start this weekend, we're already missing Toner so our lineout is going to be weak, and the other question is who calls it.

Fraser Brown will be a huge plus for Scotland if he starts, Jonny Gray if he starts will also be an absolute pain in the arse at the lineout.

troyzer · 05-02-2019 10:31pm

Squidgy Black wrote: »

troyzer wrote: »

Are we really losing much if Best isn't in the team from a leadership perspective? There was zero on display on Saturday anyway.

Is Leavy healthy? I haven't seen an update and he hasn't played since before Christmas. The best way to manage him back would be against Southern Kings next week, then Italy the following week.

An 0-2 start would be a disaster.

Who takes up the captaincy if Best doesn't play? All it takes is Scotland to target Johnny and get him riled up like Munster did, or pull a Sinckler and have POM lose the head.

Leavy was still declared unfit last week with his calf, but who do you bring him in for, VdF? POM?

POM has to start this weekend, we're already missing Toner so our lineout is going to be weak, and the other question is who calls it.

Fraser Brown will be a huge plus for Scotland if he starts, Jonny Gray if he starts will also be an absolute pain in the arse at the lineout.

I wouldn't bring Leavy in yet but I think an ideal backrow for the rest of the Six Nations is POM, VdF and SOB with Leavy on the bench.

For this week though, I'd have Ruddock on the bench. He can cover second row as well in a pinch.

The lineout is going to be a concern though, no doubt. Some of the calls on Saturday were absolutely mad.

Perifect · 05-02-2019 10:39pm

Squidgy Black wrote: »

Who takes up the captaincy if Best doesn't play? All it takes is Scotland to target Johnny and get him riled up like Munster did, or pull a Sinckler and have POM lose the head.

Leavy was still declared unfit last week with his calf, but who do you bring him in for, VdF? POM?

POM has to start this weekend, we're already missing Toner so our lineout is going to be weak, and the other question is who calls it.

Fraser Brown will be a huge plus for Scotland if he starts, Jonny Gray if he starts will also be an absolute pain in the arse at the lineout.

O'Mahony is the obvious candidate for captaincy.

Western Pomise · 05-02-2019 10:53pm

Perifect wrote: »

15. Larmour
14. Earls
13. Henshaw
12. Aki
11. Stockdale
10. Sexton
9. Cooney
8. Conan
7. Van Der Flier
6. O'Mahony
5. Dillane
4. Ryan
3. Furlong
2. Scannell
1. Healy

Is Ringrose injured?.....because he was Ireland’s best performer in the back line last wkd so don’t see why he wouldn’t start v Scotland.

Jump_In_Jack · 05-02-2019 10:55pm

https://www.rte.ie/sport/rugby/2019/0205/1027748-obrien-kearney-and-roux-primed-for-ireland-starts/

Looks like these are the options to face Scotland:

15. Kearney, 23. Larmour
14. Earls - Byrne
13. Henshaw - Addison, C Farrell, T Farrell
12. Aki
11. Stockdale
10. Sexton, 22. Carbery - Carty
9. Murray, 21. Cooney - Blade
8. O’Brien - Conan
7. Van der Flier, 20. Murphy
6. O’Mahony - Ruddock
5. Roux - Holland
4. Ryan, 19. Dillane
3. Furlong, 18. Porter - Ryan
2. Best, 16. Cronin - Scannell
1. Healy, 17. Kilcoyne - McGrath

Perifect · 05-02-2019 10:57pm

Western Pomise wrote: »

Is Ringrose injured?.....because he was Ireland’s best performer in the back line last wkd so don’t see why he wouldn’t start v Scotland.

Yes, he's out.

Former Observer · 05-02-2019 10:57pm

Kearndawg at 15

Squidgy Black · 05-02-2019 10:59pm

Western Pomise wrote: »

Is Ringrose injured?.....because he was Ireland’s best performer in the back line last wkd so don’t see why he wouldn’t start v Scotland.

Yes he's injured, might be back for Italy.

Former Observer · 05-02-2019 11:05pm

Think Ruddock would be magnificent addition for Scotland game.

I'm fond of Best, and he has been a great servant, but if the World Cup was 12 months away I wonder how many people would be content about his inclusion this Six Nations. He still steps up, but at the same time, he's putting the fear of god in no one.

bilston · 05-02-2019 11:15pm

troyzer wrote: »

I think you're right, he has a few more mediocre performances before Joe weighs up his options.

Best is still capable of great performances but his form this season has been inconsistent.

Bollox.

Best has been excellent for Ulster and was excellent against NZ.

I didn't think he was particularly poor against England anyway.

Actually I don't even know where this has come from that all of a sudden on the back of one game that many people want him dropped or phased out or whatever.

Perifect · 05-02-2019 11:18pm

bilston wrote: »

Bollox.

Best has been excellent for Ulster and was excellent against NZ.

I didn't think he was particularly poor against England anyway.

Actually I don't even know where this has come from that all of a sudden on the back of one game that many people want him dropped or phased out or whatever.

I called it before the England match. There's a world cup coming up and Best will be 37. We need to have plans in place and prepared!

Jewelers · 05-02-2019 11:18pm

Former Observer wrote: »

Kearndawg at 15

sweet ****awful name

part time punk · 05-02-2019 11:38pm

troyzer wrote: »

I wouldn't bring Leavy in yet but I think an ideal backrow for the rest of the Six Nations is POM, VdF and SOB with Leavy on the bench.

For this week though, I'd have Ruddock on the bench. He can cover second row as well in a pinch.

The lineout is going to be a concern though, no doubt. Some of the calls on Saturday were absolutely mad.

Good shout about Ruddock.

That complicated lineout call near our own line just before half time was mental. Crooked throw and scrum to England. Don't know what they were thinking

Clegg · 05-02-2019 11:44pm

Any sort of win will do. A pig ugly one pointer will have me delighted. They regroup properly over the rest week.

I'll admit I'm very concerned about this game now. Our gameplan is about the unrelenting workrate and physicality of our pack. We're missing three excellent locks and our best 8.

We can absorb the injury to Ringrose even though he a better 13 than any other 13 we have. Farrell is a decent player even if a bit samey to Aki. We'll lose that playmaker in the centres with Ringrose injured. I don't want to see Aki try that again either. Don't think that's his game.

Inspector Coptoor · 06-02-2019 2:06am

Would love to see
1 Healy
2 Cronin
3 Furlong
4 Ryan
5 Dillane
6 POM
7 VDF
8 SOB
9 Cooney
10 Carbery
11 Stockdale
12 Henshaw
13 Aki
14 Conway
15 Larmour

16 Scannell
17 McGrath
18 Porter
19 Roux
20 Ruddock
21 Murray
22 Sexton
23 Addison

Parent of an Angel · 06-02-2019 2:55am

I am Irish as James Nesbitt and even I say Scotland will snatch this by at least 10pts because a) its at Murrayfield where only South Africa have beaten them in the last year plus the crowd will be a factor and b) Ireland were dreadful on Saturday, even Italy could have troubled them on that performance.

Neil3030 · 06-02-2019 5:48am

Inspector Coptoor wrote: »

Would love to see
1 Healy
2 Cronin
3 Furlong
4 Ryan
5 Dillane
6 POM
7 VDF
8 SOB
9 Cooney
10 Carbery
11 Stockdale
12 Henshaw
13 Aki
14 Conway
15 Larmour

16 Scannell
17 McGrath
18 Porter
19 Roux
20 Ruddock
21 Murray
22 Sexton
23 Addison

So would Scotland!

Dubinusa · 06-02-2019 5:53am

Addison should come in for Ringrose. He's playing very well and is a similar type player too!
Henshaw imo is not in the same league at 13 as the other two!
Maybe Henshaw at 12 and Aki at 13?

BAM! uhavechlamydia · 06-02-2019 8:43am

Keith Earls saying he actually got hurt during the kick off against England...
Also said that he got his shoot out completely wrong for their try, 100% his fault

RebelButtMunch · 06-02-2019 8:47am

ClanofLams wrote: »

Best has proven himself repeatedly. Excellent display against NZ only a couple of months ago and he was far from the only one who struggled on Saturday. Not saying he's a certainty to start in the World Cup but he's more than enough credit in the bank to retain his place this week.

Credit in the bank? So he plays until he runs out of credit?

If he's not good enough to play and some young whipper snapper is better than he goes to the bench. Look at what happened to bernard brogan in last year's all Ireland final. He didn't get on the pitch and I would say he had plenty of so called credit.

tritriagain · 06-02-2019 8:59am

BAM! uhavechlamydia wrote: »

Keith Earls saying he actually got hurt during the kick off against England...
Also said that he got his shoot out completely wrong for their try, 100% his fault

Jonathon Davies mostly blamed Murray for the try as e was totally out of position leaving earls to back the wrong horse situation.

ClanofLams · 06-02-2019 9:02am

RebelButtMunch wrote: »

Credit in the bank? So he plays until he runs out of credit?

If he's not good enough to play and some young whipper snapper is better than he goes to the bench. Look at what happened to bernard brogan in last year's all Ireland final. He didn't get on the pitch and I would say he had plenty of so called credit.

Quite clearly, I meant that one average/poor performance wasn’t going to cost him his starting position given almost the whole team was of a similar standard.

Of course if someone is ‘better’ they will start. Best on form is our best hooker. There will naturally be doubts as to whether he can maintain his form at his age but given he proved himself against the number one team in the world a couple of months ago, it is highly likely he will retain his position this week.

troyzer · 06-02-2019 9:11am

bilston wrote: »

Bollox.

Best has been excellent for Ulster and was excellent against NZ.

I didn't think he was particularly poor against England anyway.

Actually I don't even know where this has come from that all of a sudden on the back of one game that many people want him dropped or phased out or whatever.

I agree he was great against NZ. But he was poor against Argentina and awful in that first Racing game. He wasn't the standout poor performer on Saturday but he had only one carry, did nothing at the breakdown and cocked up a crucial lineout. It was a very, very subpar performance. He also didn't manage Garcès at all and was non-existent when big leadership was needed to turn the game around.

But he's still capable of having excellent games like Scarlets and New Zealand. That's what inconsistent means.

I've been saying since he came back to Ulster near the start of the season that he's looked very hit and miss.

Paul Smeenus · 06-02-2019 9:36am

troyzer wrote: »

I agree he was great against NZ. But he was poor against Argentina and awful in that first Racing game. He wasn't the standout poor performer on Saturday but he had only one carry, did nothing at the breakdown and cocked up a crucial lineout. It was a very, very subpar performance. He also didn't manage Garcès at all and was non-existent when big leadership was needed to turn the game around.

But he's still capable of having excellent games like Scarlets and New Zealand. That's what inconsistent means.

I've been saying since he came back to Ulster near the start of the season that he's looked very hit and miss.

The first Racing game? It's now the 6th of February and you are harking back to mid-October to reference poor performances? Okay. Well, we've seen from Rob K that if Joe doesn't think you're up to it, you get dropped. Let's see what happens.

Former Former · 06-02-2019 10:33am

Best was awful against England. Nothing in the loose, no sign of on-field leadership and Keith Wood would have been embarrassed by that crooked throw.

And still Cronin only came on with ten minutes to go. That tells you everything you need to know. It would be possibly the biggest selection surprise of Joe's reign if Best is dropped.

wittycynic · 06-02-2019 10:43am

troyzer wrote: »

I agree he was great against NZ. But he was poor against Argentina and awful in that first Racing game. He wasn't the standout poor performer on Saturday but he had only one carry, did nothing at the breakdown and cocked up a crucial lineout. It was a very, very subpar performance. He also didn't manage Garcès at all and was non-existent when big leadership was needed to turn the game around.

But he's still capable of having excellent games like Scarlets and New Zealand. That's what inconsistent means.

I've been saying since he came back to Ulster near the start of the season that he's looked very hit and miss.

I don't think anyone has really rated, or should rate, Best's management of referees. He has never been strong in that regard and generally fails to engage them often enough, or strongly enough.

With that said, I didn't disagree with him being handed the captaincy when he was. He was one of the few senior guaranteed starters in the team, that was regularly fit, at the time.

I don't think there being questions over his place in the team is new either. He is no longer putting in the quality of performance he regularly did club and Country, and this has been evident for a time. The throwing has always been a little shaky but he more than made up for it in contribution elsewhere, particularly being a nuisance at breakdown time. Unfortunately, I don't think he is getting through the shift he once did, at the level he once did, throughout the field anymore. In fairness, the guy is 36 and will be 37 in August. The list of people who have maintained their position as a top international performer at that age is very short, and sadly I don't think Best is on it.

I would tend to the view that Scannel is now our best option.

Henry Ford III · 06-02-2019 11:21am

I've a very bad feeling about this game. Ireland will presumably improve but Scotland at home are no walkover.

p.s. It won't be a wake up call/exactly what we needed btw.

thomond2006 · 06-02-2019 11:32am

I was more worried about this game prior to Saturday. It will take quite a turnaround, considering the injuries, to win. Ringrose played very well on Saturday.

Squidgy Black · 06-02-2019 11:52am

thomond2006 wrote: »

I was more worried about this game prior to Saturday. It will take quite a turnaround, considering the injuries, to win. Ringrose played very well on Saturday.

Scotland's injury list is arguably worse. It's probably one of the most unknown games we've gone into in a while, nobody knows what this Scotland side are going to be like, and we don't know how we're going to perform either with the injuries.

06-02-2019 11:55am

Squidgy Black wrote: »

Scotland's injury list is arguably worse. It's probably one of the most unknown games we've gone into in a while, nobody knows what this Scotland side are going to be like, and we don't know how we're going to perform either with the injuries.

Can you elaborate on Scotland's injury profile?

troyzer · 06-02-2019 11:59am

Deleted User wrote: »

Can you elaborate on Scotland's injury profile?

Barclay, Watson, Brown, Welsh, McGuigan among others.

They're missing a lot of players that are either starters or regularly fighting for bench space.

Squidgy Black · 06-02-2019 12:11pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Can you elaborate on Scotland's injury profile?

As of last week:

PROP
Zander Fagerson (ankle)
Jon Welsh (tbc)

HOOKER
Fraser Brown (knee)
George Turner (ankle)

LOCK
Richie Gray (back)
Lewis Carmichael (tbc)

BACK ROW
Hamish Watson (hand)
John Barclay (Achilles)
Blade Thomson (concussion)
David Denton (head)
Matt Fagerson (shoulder)
Magnus Bradbury (shoulder)
Luke Hamilton (shoulder)
Cornell Du Preez (throat)

CENTRE
Duncan Taylor (knee)
Mark Bennett (hamstring)
Matt Scott (concussion)

WING
Byron McGuigan (tbc)
Damien Hoyland (tbc)

stephen_n · 06-02-2019 12:23pm

RebelButtMunch wrote: »

Credit in the bank? So he plays until he runs out of credit?

If he's not good enough to play and some young whipper snapper is better than he goes to the bench. Look at what happened to bernard brogan in last year's all Ireland final. He didn't get on the pitch and I would say he had plenty of so called credit.

The problem is no young whipersnapper is better than him yet. There is no one screaming for inclusion. Scannel is the next best but isn’t really putting in better performances than best this season. Joe seems to see Cronin as an impact player, not a starter.

thebaz · 06-02-2019 12:30pm

stephen_n wrote: »

The problem is no young whipersnapper is better than him yet. There is no one screaming for inclusion. Scannel is the next best but isn’t really putting in better performances than best this season. Joe seems to see Cronin as an impact player, not a starter.

Cronin is playing better than him right now , and should start with POM made captain , until or If Best form returns to be better than him.

razorblunt · 06-02-2019 12:37pm

Squidgy Black wrote: »

Who takes up the captaincy if Best doesn't play? All it takes is Scotland to target Johnny and get him riled up like Munster did, or pull a Sinckler and have POM lose the head.

Leavy was still declared unfit last week with his calf, but who do you bring him in for, VdF? POM?

POM has to start this weekend, we're already missing Toner so our lineout is going to be weak, and the other question is who calls it.

Fraser Brown will be a huge plus for Scotland if he starts, Jonny Gray if he starts will also be an absolute pain in the arse at the lineout.

There's not a hope that Brown starts ahead of McInally.
He's playing out of his boots at the moment.

Squidgy Black · 06-02-2019 12:39pm

razorblunt wrote: »

There's not a hope that Brown starts ahead of McInally.
He's playing out of his boots at the moment.

Yeah McInally was outstanding last weekend, but you just never know what sort of selection Scotland will go with.

razorblunt · 06-02-2019 12:40pm

Squidgy Black wrote: »

As of last week:

PROP
Zander Fagerson (ankle)
Jon Welsh (tbc)

HOOKER
Fraser Brown (knee)
George Turner (ankle)

LOCK
Richie Gray (back)
Lewis Carmichael (tbc)

BACK ROW
Hamish Watson (hand)
John Barclay (Achilles)
Blade Thomson (concussion)
David Denton (head)
Matt Fagerson (shoulder)
Magnus Bradbury (shoulder)
Luke Hamilton (shoulder)
Cornell Du Preez (throat)

CENTRE
Duncan Taylor (knee)
Mark Bennett (hamstring)
Matt Scott (concussion)

WING
Byron McGuigan (tbc)
Damien Hoyland (tbc)

Scotland are milking that list somewhat.
All three centers have been miles off for a while now.
Carmichael is a kid, its like saying Ireland are missing Wycherley.

Watson, Barclay and Brown are their most noticeable absentees.
Jonny Gray is missing from that list but you could add that too.

DellyBelly · 06-02-2019 12:45pm

My team would be

15. Kearney if fit otherwise Larms
14. Earlsey
13. Henshaw
12. Aki
11. Stockdale
10. Carbs - Give him some much needed game time
9. Murray
8. Conan - Seanie maybe for the final 25 mins
7. Van der Flier
6. O’Mahony
5. Roux
4. Ryan
3. Furlong
2. Besty - wouldn't be to upset with Cronin
1. Healy

stephen_n · 06-02-2019 12:49pm

thebaz wrote: »

Cronin is playing better than him right now , and should start with POM made captain , until or If Best form returns to be better than him.

I’d say Cronin is playing better, but Joe has never seen him as a starter. Though he has improved, I think his scrummaging is what informs that choice. His work off the ball has improved a lot this year and so has his throwing. I just don’t see Joe starting him though.

Burkie1203 · 06-02-2019 1:13pm

DellyBelly wrote: »

My team would be

15. Kearney if fit otherwise Larms
14. Earlsey
13. Henshaw
12. Aki
11. Stockdale
10. Carbs - Give him some much needed game time
9. Murray
8. Conan - Seanie maybe for the final 25 mins
7. Van der Flier
6. O’Mahony
5. Roux
4. Ryan
3. Furlong
2. Besty - wouldn't be to upset with Cronin
1. Healy

Reckon we will see
Kearney Earls Henshaw Aki Stockdale Sexton Murray
Conan VDF POM Roux Ryan Furlong Best Healy

Bench - Kilcoyne Cronin Porter Dillane SOB Cooney Carbery Larmour

We wont make too many/any unforced changes

razorblunt · 06-02-2019 1:31pm

Squidgy Black wrote: »

Yeah McInally was outstanding last weekend, but you just never know what sort of selection Scotland will go with.

Fair point.

Buer · 06-02-2019 2:05pm

razorblunt wrote: »

Scotland are milking that list somewhat.
All three centers have been miles off for a while now.
Carmichael is a kid, its like saying Ireland are missing Wycherley.

If Wycherley had already picked up a couple of test caps last year, yes. If fit, Carmichael would have a very strong chance of being in their 23 right now. Swinson is in the squad but is still getting back to speed after a bad injury and surgery. Sam Skinner played blindside and covered lock for them at the weekend with no second row on the bench.

6n 2019 Scotland Vs Ireland build up thread

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