Margaret Cash steals €300 worth of clothes from Penneys and aftermath/etc!

punisher5112 · 02-02-2019 12:02PM

If you want respect you need to give respect which is something that they need to fix.....

Plumbthedepths · 02-02-2019 12:04PM

dermo888 wrote:

And so, we'll go around in circles. The failure is generational, and will be repeated. What chance do her children have? She's doing her best to be a good mother, but its only a matter of time before those children end up repeating the same mistakes. Thats less than two decades away, and the Ireland of that time won't be so tolerant or accepting of nonsense like that.

The state providing 'cradle to grave' benefit is also responsible to a degree for the nonsense you speak of.

dermo888 · 02-02-2019 12:20PM

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

The state providing 'cradle to grave' benefit is also responsible to a degree for the nonsense you speak of.

"/I]The state providing 'cradle to grave' benefit is also responsible to a degree for the nonsense you speak of."

I know that, and theres increasing resentment of this from the 'squeezed middle', who are lashing out politically using every legal means at their disposal, and thats OUTSIDE Ireland. Its happened in America, France and Britain. Its only a matter of time before its repeated in Ireland.

There are parts of Dublin such as Tyrellstown where the anti social elements should be kept, and the whole place put under martial law, curfews and we can lease these out to the wealthier classes from Britain for example, so they can go hunting. Its a win win scenario. The state saves money on prisons, on law enforcement, on welfare payments, and.......

Plumbthedepths · 02-02-2019 12:30PM

dermo888 wrote:

There are parts of Dublin such as Tyrellstown where the anti social elements should be kept, and the whole place put under martial law, curfews and we can lease these out to the wealthier classes from Britain for example, so they can go hunting. Its a win win scenario. The state saves money on prisons, on law enforcement, on welfare payments, and.......

I can safely write you off now as a crank based on the hyperbolic bs above .

tuxy · 02-02-2019 12:31PM

dermo888 wrote: »

Some of the most heinous nasty crude racist right wing views are held against these fellow citizens of Ireland. I can't repeat them here. I don't want to. They sicken me to the core. I would'nt permit such views to be espoused in front of me about Jews or Homosexuals, so I can't allow it for Travellers either, even if my experiences with Travellers has'nt always been positive or enriching.

dermo888 wrote: »

There are parts of Dublin such as Tyrellstown where the anti social elements should be kept, and the whole place put under martial law, curfews and we can lease these out to the wealthier classes from Britain for example, so they can go hunting. Its a win win scenario. The state saves money on prisons, on law enforcement, on welfare payments, and.......

Are these posts by the same person?

mikhail · 02-02-2019 12:33PM

I've said it before, and I'll say it again, but we have a crisis in our education system in this country.

The number of people who couldn't recognise sarcasm if it were labelled in neon pink is staggering.

Mad_maxx · 02-02-2019 01:08PM

A multi decade fresh strategy is needed to deal with the traveller issue but liberals must be excluded from any input, they completely dictated policy this past three decades and it has been an abject failure.

Ruraldweller56 · 02-02-2019 01:08PM

dermo888 wrote: »

I'm of the opinion Margaret Cash is quite possibly the best thing the 'Alt Right' and potential racists have seen in over a decade.

Almost immediately they can hold her up as a shining example, and this will be used/abused to denigrate and belittle Welfare recipients, Direct Provision claimants, Housing Assistance claimants and the whole ethos and essence of the Welfare State system.

Its true that the Travelling Community DO experience discrimination and have problems. Its down to them to try and solve it, but they can't do it alone. They've to be 'guided' in a sense to a path that is respectful of societal norms, that hard work has just rewards, gains respect in the eyes of your peers and the community as a whole.

But thats going to take time, and for many - the time was yesterday, ten years ago, twenty years ago, and sadly - not much has changed. The same problems are still there, the poverty, the alcoholism, the violence, the general disregard for the rule of law. The abject criminality. Frankly - people's patience ran out, and ran out a long time ago. We tried kindness, love, tolerance, and it has'nt got us very far.

Some of the most heinous nasty crude racist right wing views are held against these fellow citizens of Ireland. I can't repeat them here. I don't want to. They sicken me to the core. I would'nt permit such views to be espoused in front of me about Jews or Homosexuals, so I can't allow it for Travellers either, even if my experiences with Travellers has'nt always been positive or enriching.

And so, we'll go around in circles. The failure is generational, and will be repeated. What chance do her children have? She's doing her best to be a good mother, but its only a matter of time before those children end up repeating the same mistakes. Thats less than two decades away, and the Ireland of that time won't be so tolerant or accepting of nonsense like that.

I'm not quite sure what you mean by alt right or racists, but I can tell you this much. Cretinous and all as this woman might be, my gripe isn't with her as such.

We've a far more poisonous establishment and commie/lefty/Liberal media that enable her to behave the way she does. I'll point you to her meeting with Miriam O Callaghan and the Peter Casey on the late late fiasco for examples.

Without them enabling her she'd be nothing. Forgotten about. The way it should be. No stick for fed up hard working taxpayers to beat (I suspect that's who you're calling racist and alt right) or nothing for parasitic liberals to try and defend.

Just nothing. Her and her entitlement forgotten about. Everyone would be a winner.

Roger Hassenforder · 02-02-2019 01:14PM

dermo888 wrote: »

There are parts of Dublin such as Tyrellstown where the anti social elements should be kept, and the whole place put under martial law, curfews and we can lease these out to the wealthier classes from Britain for example, so they can go hunting. Its a win win scenario. The state saves money on prisons, on law enforcement, on welfare payments, and.......

Bunty was much funnier (for a while)

Paddy Cow · 02-02-2019 01:24PM

Mad_maxx wrote: »

A multi decade fresh strategy is needed to deal with the traveller issue but liberals must be excluded from any input, they completely dictated policy this past three decades and it has been an abject failure.

There are two things the government could do -

1 Enforce the rule that all children must attending full time education until at least age 16

2 No one is allowed to get married before the age of 18, when they are legally an adult. Child brides is disgusting and something we associated with the barbaric Middle East.

Politicians won't though and adult Travellers will continue to isolate child Travellers by taking them out of school early and perpetuating the "them vs us" attitude.

dermo888 · 02-02-2019 01:38PM

tuxy wrote: »

Are these posts by the same person?

Jesus H Christ, you don't 'get' satire.

tuxy · 02-02-2019 01:53PM

dermo888 wrote: »

Jesus H Christ, you don't 'get' satire.

I do get it. You say you won't repeat those things even in jest as they are too heinous, nasty,crude and racist. Then you make light of it in your next post. Making your first post invalid.
Funny but is it worth it to completely invalidate your previous post?

iguana · 02-02-2019 02:01PM

Paddy Cow wrote: »

1 Enforce the rule that all children must attending full time education until at least age 16.

That's not the law in this country. The constitution stipulates that the state recognises the family as the primary educator of a child. And specifically lays out that no parent will be obliged to send their child to school. What is required is that every child is entitled to a certain minimum education; moral, intellectual and social.

What is the law is that by the September of the year they turn 6 every child is registered in either a school, state or private, or is registered as home educated. The department of education monitors state schools and if you register a child with a school, you are required by law to follow attendance rules. Tusla monitors independent schools and home educators. The same group of professionals, a mix of former educators and social workers check on both. Independent schools will usually have an annual visit by an assessor, though if there are concerns they can come back more regularly and ultimately deny/rescind recognition as an independent school. Meaning the children's registration at that school is no longer valid. Home educators usually have a registration visit and potential follow up visits where the provided education is assessed. In the same way as with independent schools, assessors who have concerns can arrange regular follow up assessments or require in-depth regular follow up meetings. Again, registration can be denied. In both schools and home educating families, this is rare.

The problem that appears common in the travelling community is that children are initially registered at a school but taken out after very few years. They are not then registered as home educated and it's rare that it's checked on whether the certain minimum education is being provided. To be very honest, I just don't think it would be possible for Tusla assessors to be able to monitor that effectively and would potentially put individual staff into very uncomfortable/dangerous positions. I do wonder if the best chance traveller children have for a successful education is for the state to provide specifically tailored schools, with mainly outdoor practical learning, responsible animal husbandry, lots of free-play, etc that keep the children engaged and really wanting to keep attending. I know people baulk at the idea of a small section of society being given special treatment but specialised schools that could, over time, make a real difference to the outlook of the community as a whole. And could create real change that positively effects everyone long-term.

Gravelly · 02-02-2019 02:13PM

iguana wrote: »

The problem that appears common in the travelling community is that children are initially registered at a school but taken out after very few years. They are not then registered as home educated and it's rare that it's checked on whether the certain minimum education is being provided. To be very honest, I just don't think it would be possible for Tusla assessors to be able to monitor that effectively and would potentially put individual staff into very uncomfortable/dangerous positions. I do wonder if the best chance traveller children have for a successful education is for the state to provide specifically tailored schools, with mainly outdoor practical learning, responsible animal husbandry, lots of free-play, etc that keep the children engaged and really wanting to keep attending. I know people baulk at the idea of a small section of society being given special treatment but specialised schools that could, over time, make a real difference to the outlook of the community as a whole. And could create real change that positively effects everyone long-term.

Wasn't there a traveller-specific school in Coolock? AFAIK attendance was close to non-existent and it was closed down a couple of years ago.

tuxy · 02-02-2019 02:16PM

Margaret had some of her children in a charity summer camp last summer and they were expelled after 2 weeks. I don't think it was traveller only but it was for disadvantaged children.
Margaret though it was hilarious when they came home and had to tell her they were not allowed to go back.
If that's the attitude taken to something that's free and fun for the children what are the chances of them staying in specialised schools?

Gravelly · 02-02-2019 02:17PM

tuxy wrote: »

Margaret had some of her children in a charity summer camp last summer and they were expelled after 2 weeks. I don't think it was traveller only but it was for disadvantaged children.
Margaret though it was hilarious when they came home and had to tell her they were not allowed to go back.

That story alone puts paid to the posters going on about her supposedly "doing her best as a mother"

Plumbthedepths · 02-02-2019 02:18PM

iguana wrote:

The problem that appears common in the travelling community is that children are initially registered at a school but taken out after very few years. They are not then registered as home educated and it's rare that it's checked on whether the certain minimum education is being provided. To be very honest, I just don't think it would be possible for Tusla assessors to be able to monitor that effectively and would potentially put individual staff into very uncomfortable/dangerous positions. I do wonder if the best chance traveller children have for a successful education is for the state to provide specifically tailored schools, with mainly outdoor practical learning, responsible animal husbandry, lots of free-play, etc that keep the children engaged and really wanting to keep attending. I know people baulk at the idea of a small section of society being given special treatment but specialised schools that could, over time, make a real difference to the outlook of the community as a whole. And could create real change that positively effects everyone long-term.

Here's a very simple solution to attendance up to the age of 16. Link Child benefit payment to school attendance. Not in school? Soz no money. Simple.

Gravelly · 02-02-2019 02:20PM

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Here's a very simple solution to attendance up to the age of 16. Link Child benefit payment to school attendance. Not in school? Soz no money. Simple.

Dats decrimation agin the travellers, Joe, shoor they knows we do be learnin de childer at home so dey do.

Plumbthedepths · 02-02-2019 02:23PM

Gravelly wrote:

Dats decrimation agin the travellers, Joe, shoor they knows we do be learnin de childer at home so dey do.

Apply it to every child of school going age, regardless of background. Sorted.

iguana · 02-02-2019 02:26PM

Gravelly wrote: »

Wasn't there a traveller-specific school in Coolock? AFAIK attendance was close to non-existent and it was closed down a couple of years ago.

I don't honestly know, it's not something I've done any real research into. But I do think it's something that may be successful if it was planned over the very long-term. Lots of small schools that follow a more outdoor/Finnish model with a degree of tailoring to the travelling community, specifically with regard to proper care of animals. One that the children actually really, really enjoyed attending to the point that they would not be happy to be pulled out of early. So that even if the first generation of pupils were only in attendance for a few years, when they are parents their positive experience of school would make them less inclined to pull their own children out as early.

I doubt it could ever happen as the expense compared to what would be paltry seeming results for the first decade or so would mean that any such project wouldn't last. But as things are now, those kids have so little chance of living truly improved lives or being able to improve things for their own children when they have them. It will take something massive and innovative to make a real positive, lasting change for them.

Gravelly · 02-02-2019 02:27PM

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Apply it to every child of school going age, regardless of background. Sorted.

They'd still scream discrimination - the council didn't come to my house to fit fire extinguishers and smoke alarms, yet they apparently "murdered" those who died after the chip pan fire in Carrickmines.

Gravelly · 02-02-2019 02:29PM

iguana wrote: »

I don't honestly know, it's not something I've done any real research into. But I do think it's something that may be successful if it was planned over the very long-term. Lots of small schools that follow a more outdoor/Finnish model with a degree of tailoring to the travelling community, specifically with regard to proper care of animals. One that the children actually really, really enjoyed attending to the point that they would not be happy to be pulled out of early. So that even if the first generation of pupils were only in attendance for a few years, when they are parents their positive experience of school would make them less inclined to pull their own children out as early.

I doubt it could ever happen as the expense compared to what would be paltry seeming results for the first decade or so would mean that any such project wouldn't last. But as things are now, those kids have so little chance of living truly improved lives or being able to improve things for their own children when they have them. It will take something massive and innovative to make a real positive, lasting change for them.

Perhaps it's time that this country seriously looked at taking children away from parents who can't or won't bring them up within the law.

dermo888 · 02-02-2019 02:32PM

Gravelly wrote: »

Perhaps it's time that this country seriously looked at taking children away from parents who can't or won't bring them up within the law.

We tried that before. They were called 'Industrial Schools'. As far as I'm aware, it did'nt work.

iguana · 02-02-2019 02:33PM

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Here's a very simple solution to attendance up to the age of 16. Link Child benefit payment to school attendance. Not in school? Soz no money. Simple.

That's not too far off the situation we have now. Child benefit sends forms to parents when their children are preschool age and again at school age asking for details of their child's preschool/nursery and school (or proof of registration as home educated). If you don't write back with details, payment stops. I don't know what happens in later years, if a child is registered with a school they are pulled from.

Gravelly · 02-02-2019 02:36PM

dermo888 wrote: »

We tried that before. They were called 'Industrial Schools'. As far as I'm aware, it did'nt work.

There's always one.

So the only choice is between industrial schools or allowing travellers (and others) to raise kids with no education, no skills (other than criminal) and no hope of being anything other than lifelong burdens on state and society?

Plumbthedepths · 02-02-2019 02:36PM

iguana wrote:

That's not too far off the situation we have now. Child benefit sends forms to parents when their children are preschool age and again at school age asking for details of their child's preschool/nursery and school (or proof of registration as home educated). If you don't write back with details, payment stops. I don't know what happens in later years, if a child is registered with a school they are pulled from.

It's not linked to attendance only registration.

Paddy Cow · 02-02-2019 02:38PM

iguana wrote: »

I don't honestly know, it's not something I've done any real research into. But I do think it's something that may be successful if it was planned over the very long-term. Lots of small schools that follow a more outdoor/Finnish model with a degree of tailoring to the travelling community, specifically with regard to proper care of animals. One that the children actually really, really enjoyed attending to the point that they would not be happy to be pulled out of early. So that even if the first generation of pupils were only in attendance for a few years, when they are parents their positive experience of school would make them less inclined to pull their own children out as early.

I doubt it could ever happen as the expense compared to what would be paltry seeming results for the first decade or so would mean that any such project wouldn't last. But as things are now, those kids have so little chance of living truly improved lives or being able to improve things for their own children when they have them. It will take something massive and innovative to make a real positive, lasting change for them.

Primary school isn't the problem. Most travellers finish that level. The problem is they don't finish second level. They don't want their teenage kids mixing with settled kids, in case the girls start interacting with settled boys or become influenced by settled kids in general. Keeping girls uneducated and marrying them off as child brides is not a culture that should be protected.

It wasnt me123 · 02-02-2019 02:42PM

mikhail wrote: »

I've said it before, and I'll say it again, but we have a crisis in our education system in this country.

The number of people who couldn't recognise sarcasm if it were labelled in neon pink is staggering.

If they could spell it that would be a start.

Plumbthedepths · 02-02-2019 02:45PM

Paddy Cow wrote:

in case the girls start interacting with settled boys or become influenced by settled kids in general. Keeping girls uneducated and marrying them off as child brides is not a culture that should be protected.

This is where their 'ethnic' status comes from....

xi5yvm0owc1s2b · 02-02-2019 02:49PM

iguana wrote: »

The problem that appears common in the travelling community is that children are initially registered at a school but taken out after very few years. They are not then registered as home educated and it's rare that it's checked on whether the certain minimum education is being provided. To be very honest, I just don't think it would be possible for Tusla assessors to be able to monitor that effectively and would potentially put individual staff into very uncomfortable/dangerous positions.

If I took my 12-year-old child out of school, I'd be certain that it wouldn't take long before someone was knocking at the door to ask questions. Why isn't the same standard applied to Travellers? It should be obvious that barely literate parents are in no way equipped to home school their children.

Early school leaving and early marriage are the core issues contributing to Travellers' social and economic problems. They need to be tackled.

Margaret Cash steals €300 worth of clothes from Penneys and aftermath/etc!

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