Racist Welsh coal miners in blackface

conorhal · 01-02-2019 12:45PM

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

and they have the cheek to call those on the left snowflakes.

I don't see anybody on the right having a meldown over a hundred year old photo of coal miners. :rolleyes:

Chancer3001 · 01-02-2019 12:46PM

"Blackface caricatures stereotypes of black people"

The crazy stereotype that black people have indeed black faces.

Black arm could be equally as racist I guess. Cos black people have black arms too.

ohnonotgmail · 01-02-2019 12:47PM

conorhal wrote: »

I don't see anybody on the right having a meldown over a hundred year old photo of coal miners. :rolleyes:

No but you seem to have a problem with the words that people use. as if it affects you personally.

s7ryf3925pivug · 01-02-2019 12:52PM

Well my brain hurt reading the article, but I think there is a rational point hiding in it somewhere. If people see it and think it's blackface, then that might upset them.

I don't agree with his position but I think it's a rational one, just buried in a kinda poetic posturing.

I wouldn't care about black people doing white face. If they aggressively ripped the p!ss out of white people while doing so I still wouldn't care and might find it funny. I didn't watch white chicks but I don't think people got worked up about it.

What am I missing?

Chancer3001 · 01-02-2019 12:58PM

You're missing that people are idiots

What if he sees a cross at a church and is reminded of the kkk burning crosses?

Better get rid of those in case he's triggered

Cienciano · 01-02-2019 01:00PM

Ipso wrote: »

It’s one thing to be stupid enough to think that, but to say it in such a public and permanent way makes the mind boggle.

No, it's simple really. It's nothing to do with someone offended. You know the way a contrarian journalist basically winds people up? Kevin Myres, Katie Hopkins, the entire daily mail website? All done to get attention, clicks This is no different.

EdgeCase · 01-02-2019 01:04PM

There's an enormous difference between a picture of Welsh coleminers covered in coal dust, an image of someone wearing black makeup on stage to deliberately mock black people.

There was horrible mockery of black people on stage, in cartoons and in fancy dress back in the old days but this absolutely is not an example of it.

You're looking at an image of coal miners. If anything it shows the horrible working conditions poor Welsh industrial workers put up with, being exposed to toxic substances without any protection. Many of those guys would have died young due to various cancers, lung and skin diseases basically working in lethally dangerous pits to keep a bunch of stuck up upper middle class types supplied with heat and energy.

This stuff in the US (and is almost exclusively the US) is going way too far. On the one hand you've a president and government who are the most extreme right wing types that have occupied that office in the modern era. You've legislators who are openly homophobic, xenophobic, racist and religious fundamentalists. You have politicians who are trying to gerrymander to ensure African American and others who might vote against them are disenfranchised, but you've got people attacking antique photographs of Welsh coalminers.

It's no wonder the place is so screwed up!

A bunch of people running around being offended by inoffensive things while absolutely ignoring the 300 ton elephant sitting in the Whitehouse, Congress and many state legislatures that is genuinely oppressing them.

Rearranging the deckchairs on the Titanic comes to mind.

DrumSteve · 01-02-2019 01:07PM

Deleted User wrote: »

You'd think he'd look at the photo and realise that most white people had it bad as well. What sort of white privilege did those men feel working down dangerous mines?

As usual though, it warms my heart to know people like this guy are ruining their own lives voluntarily. He obviously doesn't have any of the real issues I or my girlfriend have. Let his victimhood spiral out of control and end up more troubled than we are. He deserves it.

Thinly veiled "I have a girlfriend" post.

markodaly · 01-02-2019 01:11PM

seamus wrote: »

This is the danger of overthinking art. Like when you're reading a book in school and the teacher picks out a single line and goes into a rambling and convoluted explanation of what that line really means and fifty potential interpretations. When realistically sometimes it just means what it says.

The mistake that the author of this piece has made is to give their subjective offense the same validity as objective offence.

Objective offence is when the artist intends to cause offence with their piece; or that the what the artist intended to portray, is offensive.

Subjective offence is when you derive offence from a piece where that offence or interpretation was not intended by the artist.

In this case, the author has interpreted this picture as a form of blackface, and found it offensive. Which they are perfectly entitled to do.

But the photographer's intention was not to portray blackface. Therefore the picture is not objectively offensive, and the author needs to cop onto himself.

It does say more about his own sense of entitlement; his belief that he is entitled to not be offended; than it does about any photograph.

To play devil's advocate, one could go down a rabbit hole and try to "get inside" the head of the photographer:

- Why did you take this picture?

-- Because it was amusing

- What was amusing about it?

-- They look like n1ggers.

But that's a whole other leap, which is making a thousand assumptions for which there is no evidence. I doubt very much that Wales in the early 1900s had an abundance of black men or any kind of anti-negro movement.

Yep, and people are also entitled to call out this idiot.
The issue with today is that we give credence to every malcontent and idiot out there with an agenda or grudge because it makes clicks and money.

01-02-2019 01:18PM

Cienciano wrote: »

No, it's simple really. It's nothing to do with someone offended. You know the way a contrarian journalist basically winds people up? Kevin Myres, Katie Hopkins, the entire daily mail website? All done to get attention, clicks This is no different.

Well if After Hours is anything to go by there is a huge market for this kind of crap, not a day goes by we don't have outrage junkies in here whinging about leftists or snowflakes, and generating clicks and attention for these guys

01-02-2019 01:24PM

NSAman wrote: »

America is screwed. There are so many people here, outraged about everything, that they don’t know what real outrage should be.

It's not just America. There are thousands of threads with outraged posters here on boards & almost as many threads where posters are outraged at the outraged.

dav3 · 01-02-2019 01:24PM

A clickbait thread title leading us to a clickbait article. What's not to love.

markodaly · 01-02-2019 01:41PM

dav3 wrote: »

A clickbait thread title leading us to a clickbait article. What's not to love.

Perhaps, but if our modern culture didn't persist with the 'everyone needs to be heard', or 'everyone gets a medal' crap then this stuff wouldn't be as pervasive.

Decades ago, most people didn't have a voice, now everyone does and we have realised that most people have nothing interesting to say.

DEFTLEFTHAND · 01-02-2019 01:45PM

The poorest regions of America are the ex coal mining towns and counties of West Virginia .

Coal miners have always been so privlidged.

Potential-Monke · 01-02-2019 01:55PM

Why are people calling it art? It's a photo. Of people having a pint after spending the day working in a coal mine. Nothing more. Nothing less.

Deleted User wrote: »

But the start of the fight when the punisher realises combat is unavoidable - he quietly closes the door and takes his belt off to them. A real "domestic violence" image if ever I saw one.

I think you're reading too much into that scene. What I saw was a man being attacked by 2 knife wielding women, so he removes the belt to wrap around his hand to be able to 'block' knife strikes and not get cut. He made use of whatever he had, and it makes complete sense.

01-02-2019 02:00PM

Potential-Monke wrote: »

I think you're reading too much into that scene. What I saw was a man being attacked by 2 knife wielding women, so he removes the belt to wrap around his hand to be able to 'block' knife strikes and not get cut. He made use of whatever he had, and it makes complete sense.

Exactly what I mean. The scene is perfectly defensible but _could_ be misinterpreted by the permanently outraged if they wanted.

I am of course reading too much into it. That was my point. Much if not all of the outrage is exactly that. People reading things into it that are not there.

And I have been trying to see if I can do it. And that was the only "hit" I got. After really really trying!

So how these people do it _constantly_ is a mystery to me. It takes a mind greater or sicker or both than mine I think.

orourkeda1977 · 01-02-2019 02:01PM

There are far too many adults in our society that have never grown up.

To be offended by something of this nature is absurd.

Firstly, I was a Journalist in a former life and would never even think of submitting a piece of dogsh1t like this to anyone. To have it published is even worse.

Secondly, if we continue to indulge these people where is this "recreational outrage" culture going to end?

I believe that sharing stories like this half the problem. You should never draw attention to something that annoys you. This what a lot of them are designed to do.

Cienciano · 01-02-2019 02:43PM

riffmongous wrote: »

Well if After Hours is anything to go by there is a huge market for this kind of crap, not a day goes by we don't have outrage junkies in here whinging about leftists or snowflakes, and generating clicks and attention for these guys

I'm amazed so many people can't see through it. They buy right into it.

DublinWriter · 01-02-2019 02:45PM

Meta outrage - I'm outraged that he's outraged.

Snow Crash · 01-02-2019 02:57PM

I can't get offended by blackface because of my childhood...

El_Duderino 09 · 01-02-2019 03:22PM

I would believe the article writer might face all the discrimination they outline in the article. I get that blackface can represent a racist sentiment. But I would also say this photo isn't racist.

I think it would be a great idea to put a more explaining who the miners are - "miners covered in sut after a day's work in 19xx". Miners worked hard in dangerous coal pits to keep power the country.

They deserve to be honoured, not forgotten. The context has changed so it could cause insult to someone who doesn't know the context. so it makes sense to explain the picture

Irish Guitarist · 01-02-2019 03:31PM

dav3 wrote: »

A clickbait thread title leading us to a clickbait article. What's not to love.

If by a clickbait title you mean one that accurately describes the thread then yes. Sorry. I probably should have given it a title that would dissuade people from clicking on it.

To save you from having to click on future threads, hover over the thread title and you'll see a brief preview of what the thread is about.

conorhal · 01-02-2019 04:06PM

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

I would believe the article writer might face all the discrimination they outline in the article. I get that blackface can represent a racist sentiment. But I would also say this photo isn't racist.

I think it would be a great idea to put a more explaining who the miners are - "miners covered in sut after a day's work in 19xx". Miners worked hard in dangerous coal pits to keep power the country.

They deserve to be honoured, not forgotten. The context has changed so it could cause insult to someone who doesn't know the context. so it makes sense to explain the picture

The context hasn't changed at all though, just some eejits wilfull intent to ignore it. As they saying goes, 'the facts don't care about your feeling'.
The writer of that article deserves to be mocked and laughed at like a flat earther.

El_Duderino 09 · 01-02-2019 04:22PM

conorhal wrote: »

The context hasn't changed at all though, just some eejits wilfull intent to ignore it. As they saying goes, 'the facts don't care about your feeling'.
The writer of that article deserves to be mocked and laughed at like a flat earther.

Of course the context of black face has changed. It used to be used to mock black people and there was not much black people could do about it. Now black people can object to blackface and expect their concern to be taken seriously.

Blsckface was also a consequence of working down the mine and it has no relation to race. That wouldn't really happen now so it's not something many people would know and easy to see how it could be confused with racist Blackface.

A simply note explaining what the picture is would clear it up.

I disagree with the author and I wouldn't advocate for taking down the picture. But I take their concern seriously

NSAman · 01-02-2019 04:36PM

Should I be outraged that my Labradors arrived in this morning after rolling in the snow?

Their faces were white... is this cultural appropriation and and insult to us whities... Labradors doing white face?

conorhal · 01-02-2019 04:46PM

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Of course the context of black face has changed. It used to be used to mock black people and there was not much black people could do about it. Now black people can object to blackface and expect their concern to be taken seriously.

Blsckface was also a consequence of working down the mine and it has no relation to race. That wouldn't really happen now so it's not something many people would know and easy to see how it could be confused with racist Blackface.

A simply note explaining what the picture is would clear it up.

I disagree with the author and I wouldn't advocate for taking down the picture. But I take their concern seriously

No it's not. Getting dirty is a consequence of a dirty job. 'Blackface' is the deliberate act of applying makeup to lampoon ethnic features.

The only thing that has changed is the authors 'current year' willingness to ingnore context in favour of fee-fees and clicks. I feel no need to put up stupid signs for stupid people, should there be a sign above every urinal informing people that they should put away their mickey before they pull up their zip?

King of Kings · 01-02-2019 04:50PM

Snow Crash wrote: »

I can't get offended by blackface because of my childhood...

And they were delicious....

El_Duderino 09 · 01-02-2019 04:58PM

conorhal wrote: »

No it's not. Getting dirty is a consequence of a dirty job. 'Blackface' is the deliberate act of applying makeup to lampoon ethnic features.

The only thing that has changed is the authors 'current year' willingness to ingnore context in favour of fee-fees and clicks. I feel no need stupid signs for stupid people, should there be a sign above every urinal informing people that they should put away their mickey before they pull up their zip?

Yeah having a black face was a consequence of working down the mines. And it looks a lot like people doing black face which was deliberately racist.

How are you to know they were Welsh miners if there was no sign?

History is Important because it teaches about how things were. You can't expect people to know about how miners looked in olden times. History is taught which meabs it's normal to explain the context.

Micky-zipper analogy is a bit stupid tbh.

The author thinks the main context for having a blackened face is racism. This picture is not about racism so it makes sense to explain it.

I get that some people enjoy the harshness of simply putting a potentially racist picture up and waiting for someone to get offended and then climb their high horse to tell the offended person how stupid they are for being offended.

It depends on what you think is more important, honouring the miners or being Edgy for the sake of it.

Cee-Jay-Cee · 01-02-2019 05:04PM

Nothing surprises me about society anymore and especially not Americans. The vast majority are cretins as far as I can see.

El_Duderino 09 · 01-02-2019 05:08PM

Cee-Jay-Cee wrote: »

Nothing surprises me about society anymore and especially not Americans. The vast majority are cretins as far as I can see.

It's tradition to say "I'm not being xxxxist, but" before being xxxxist.

Or you could say "not all of them are cretins, but 99% are ". That way everyone knows you're making reasoned and nuanced point.

Racist Welsh coal miners in blackface

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