Racist Welsh coal miners in blackface

Irish Guitarist

Someone in Phoenix was so insulted by a 100 year old photo of Welsh coal miners in 'blackface' on the wall of a restaurant that he wrote a newspaper article about it.

https://eu.azcentral.com/story/opinion/op-ed/2019/01/28/downtown-phoenix-photo-men-soot-blackface/2683881002/

"Viewers cannot determine the intention of an artist’s work. Art also exposes society’s blind spots. Blackface is only a glimpse of a larger issue. The larger issue is the lack of representation of marginalized people and their voices in Phoenix."

This isn't art that someone painted; it's an actual photo of coal miners covered in soot.

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/everything-is-racist-coal-miner-edition

I'm old enough to remember my family not having central heating so my father used to order coal. I didn't realise until now how racist it was of the coalman to be covered in coal.

Before anyone complains about me talking about American politics or something, I don't really give a shite about this story. I just think it's so ridiculous that it's funny and worth sharing.

suicide_circus

such privilege, wow

Ipso

It’s one thing to be stupid enough to think that, but to say it in such a public and permanent way makes the mind boggle.

NSAman

America is screwed. There are so many people here, outraged about everything, that they don’t know what real outrage should be.

Duckworth_Luas

This guy is using Ali G's 20 year old material.

You'd think he'd look at the photo and realise that most white people had it bad as well. What sort of white privilege did those men feel working down dangerous mines?

As usual though, it warms my heart to know people like this guy are ruining their own lives voluntarily. He obviously doesn't have any of the real issues I or my girlfriend have. Let his victimhood spiral out of control and end up more troubled than we are. He deserves it.

Realt Dearg Sec

NSAman wrote: »

America is screwed. There are so many people here, outraged about everything, that they don’t know what real outrage should be.

I've never seen all these many people who are supposedly outraged about everything. I hear about them all the time on the internet.

Realt Dearg Sec

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

I've never seen all these many people who are supposedly outraged about everything. I hear about them all the time on the internet.

They exist. I ended up through a friend going out with a group of them a few times. Many times, I had to bite my tongue and not point out the absurdity of their points and how ironic it was that they were so discriminatory. He gradually went from normal to insane and I ended the friendship.

DS86DS

The irrationality and stupidity of leftists never ceases to amaze me.

Good God I think (if I lived there) I'd be more offended by the fact that a "news"paper has decided to insult its readers by giving a platform to this cretin. The mind boggles.

ChikiChiki

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

I've never seen all these many people who are supposedly outraged about everything. I hear about them all the time on the internet.

Calm down dude.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

I don’t get it. He knows what the image depicts. He says so. He reiterates. And yet has still decided to be offended by it. Mmmkay. Some people have waaaay too little to be worrying about.

That has to be a trolling article, right? RIGHT?

mikemac2

I asked a Latinx and white woman for their opinion.

Please forgive the old person, I’m not with it anymore

What is a latinx person

Latino? But what is the x?

knucklehead6

mikemac2 wrote: »

Please forgive the old person, I’m not with it anymore

What is a latinx person

Latino? But what is the x?

Latin Cross? Maybe it was some sort of talking crossbred dog?

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

mikemac2 wrote: »

Please forgive the old person, I’m not with it anymore

What is a latinx person

Latino? But what is the x?

I’m 30s and stumped. I thought it was Latina or Latino depending. Is it a newfangled gender-neutral term? Oy vey.

Oh well, off for my hip replacement surgery...

King of Kings

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

I've never seen all these many people who are supposedly outraged about everything. I hear about them all the time on the internet.

I know a few irish like this now. This crap may reside on the net but it seeps into society.

Ipso

King of Kings wrote: »

I know a few irish like this now. This crap may reside on the net but it seeps into society.

But it has to hit peak stupid at some point and go beyond parody, they have to have some self awareness.

FTA69

I’m convinced this is an article geared toward ‘clicks for money’, even hate clicks saying “look how thick this lad is.” Either that or an elaborate troll.

Nobody could be that much of an eejit surely?

Snotty

FTA69 wrote: »

I’m convinced this is an article geared toward ‘clicks for money’, even hate clicks saying “look how thick this lad is.” Either that or an elaborate troll.

Nobody could be that much of an eejit surely?

This is exactly what it is, but people lap it up, people here included.
These so called journalists set out to find a way to be offended and as proved here, they can get offended by pretty much anything.
The world isn't nearly as bad as we are lead to believe, its the media who exaggerate society norms so they get more clicks.

emo72

Sometimes I wish I had Twitter so I could get in on the outrage for the craic.

NSAman

Heh I can not even understand the people who got freaked and uppity with me for allowing my 7 year old daughter to darken her skin as part of a Moana outfit. So I certainly can not get my head around people who are upset at people being darkened in the course or their _entirely normal day at work_.

NSAman wrote: »

America is screwed. There are so many people here, outraged about everything, that they don’t know what real outrage should be.

I have tried to spot things that might outrage people - before I actually hear about people outraged by it. And I simply can not do it. And I have _really_ tried. What head space must they be in to be capable of this? They spot naturally things I can not spot with full concentration and effort.

After the Gillette ad though I am also not just trying to spot outrage - but also situations where I suspect the source is _trying_ to get that outrage so they attract clicks and attention and get exposure and free press.

And finally I think I spotted one.

I was watching the Punisher S02E01 and the first fight scene is between the Punisher and two knife wielding assassin women. No gender in it and they are pretty much his equals in combat. So all seems benign and equality and so on.

But the start of the fight when the punisher realises combat is unavoidable - he quietly closes the door and takes his belt off to them. A real "domestic violence" image if ever I saw one.

And I thought "There!" that is a scene the permanently outraged could warp and get wilfully uppity and distraught about. And then I thought - I wonder if that is exactly what the producers/writers want. Were they hoping that this perfectly defensible seen would be misrepresented and generate a twitter storm of pearl clutching as free advertising for the show.

lawred2

DS86DS wrote: »

The irrationality and stupidity of leftists never ceases to amaze me.

The irrationality and stupidity of people who are stupid never ceases to amaze me

mad muffin

The author is racist if they see a 100 year old photo of coal miners as black face.

We are inching ever closer to idiocracy…

The Crowman

This person has no sense of humour or irony whatsoever.

ohnonotgmail

mikemac2 wrote: »

Please forgive the old person, I’m not with it anymore

What is a latinx person

Latino? But what is the x?

faster than writing "latino or latina"

Irish Guitarist

Has no one else noticed the smoking gun that proves how racist this photo is?

Look at the pint the first miner is holding. You might see a head on the pint and light shining on the glass. What I see is these things coalescing to form a cross. JUST LIKE THE CROSSES THE KU KLUX KLAN BURN!!!!!

:mad:

BattleCorp

Irish Guitarist wrote: »

Before anyone complains about me talking about American politics or something, I don't really give a shite about this story. I just think it's so ridiculous that it's funny and worth sharing.

It's as simple as this. Many Yanks will do anything to get attention. The gobsh1te who wrote that article is one such individual.

FTA69

mikemac2 wrote: »

Please forgive the old person, I’m not with it anymore

What is a latinx person

Latino? But what is the x?

Yeah it’s a gender neutral term for a South American. It’s a few of the wokelord younger Latins in London using it now. Needless to say the average Colombian lad couldn’t give a bollix.

conorhal

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

faster than writing "latino or latina"

Nope, this is more lefty 'gendered pronoun' crazyness. It's offensive to apply a gendered description to 'peoplekind' and thus using the gender netural latinx is how you need to refer Latin folk you sexist!

ohnonotgmail

conorhal wrote: »

Nope, this is more lefty 'gendered pronoun' crazyness. It's offensive to apply a gendered description to 'peoplekind' and thus using the gender netural latinx is how you need to refer Latin folk you sexist!

and they have the cheek to call those on the left snowflakes.

seamus

This is the danger of overthinking art. Like when you're reading a book in school and the teacher picks out a single line and goes into a rambling and convoluted explanation of what that line really means and fifty potential interpretations. When realistically sometimes it just means what it says.

The mistake that the author of this piece has made is to give their subjective offense the same validity as objective offence.

Objective offence is when the artist intends to cause offence with their piece; or that the what the artist intended to portray, is offensive.

Subjective offence is when you derive offence from a piece where that offence or interpretation was not intended by the artist.

In this case, the author has interpreted this picture as a form of blackface, and found it offensive. Which they are perfectly entitled to do.

But the photographer's intention was not to portray blackface. Therefore the picture is not objectively offensive, and the author needs to cop onto himself.

It does say more about his own sense of entitlement; his belief that he is entitled to not be offended; than it does about any photograph.

To play devil's advocate, one could go down a rabbit hole and try to "get inside" the head of the photographer:

- Why did you take this picture?

-- Because it was amusing

- What was amusing about it?

-- They look like n1ggers.

But that's a whole other leap, which is making a thousand assumptions for which there is no evidence. I doubt very much that Wales in the early 1900s had an abundance of black men or any kind of anti-negro movement.

conorhal

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

and they have the cheek to call those on the left snowflakes.

I don't see anybody on the right having a meldown over a hundred year old photo of coal miners. :rolleyes:

Chancer3001

"Blackface caricatures stereotypes of black people"

The crazy stereotype that black people have indeed black faces.

Black arm could be equally as racist I guess. Cos black people have black arms too.

ohnonotgmail

conorhal wrote: »

I don't see anybody on the right having a meldown over a hundred year old photo of coal miners. :rolleyes:

No but you seem to have a problem with the words that people use. as if it affects you personally.

s7ryf3925pivug

Well my brain hurt reading the article, but I think there is a rational point hiding in it somewhere. If people see it and think it's blackface, then that might upset them.

I don't agree with his position but I think it's a rational one, just buried in a kinda poetic posturing.

I wouldn't care about black people doing white face. If they aggressively ripped the p!ss out of white people while doing so I still wouldn't care and might find it funny. I didn't watch white chicks but I don't think people got worked up about it.

What am I missing?

Chancer3001

You're missing that people are idiots

What if he sees a cross at a church and is reminded of the kkk burning crosses?

Better get rid of those in case he's triggered

Cienciano

Ipso wrote: »

It’s one thing to be stupid enough to think that, but to say it in such a public and permanent way makes the mind boggle.

No, it's simple really. It's nothing to do with someone offended. You know the way a contrarian journalist basically winds people up? Kevin Myres, Katie Hopkins, the entire daily mail website? All done to get attention, clicks This is no different.

EdgeCase

There's an enormous difference between a picture of Welsh coleminers covered in coal dust, an image of someone wearing black makeup on stage to deliberately mock black people.

There was horrible mockery of black people on stage, in cartoons and in fancy dress back in the old days but this absolutely is not an example of it.

You're looking at an image of coal miners. If anything it shows the horrible working conditions poor Welsh industrial workers put up with, being exposed to toxic substances without any protection. Many of those guys would have died young due to various cancers, lung and skin diseases basically working in lethally dangerous pits to keep a bunch of stuck up upper middle class types supplied with heat and energy.

This stuff in the US (and is almost exclusively the US) is going way too far. On the one hand you've a president and government who are the most extreme right wing types that have occupied that office in the modern era. You've legislators who are openly homophobic, xenophobic, racist and religious fundamentalists. You have politicians who are trying to gerrymander to ensure African American and others who might vote against them are disenfranchised, but you've got people attacking antique photographs of Welsh coalminers.

It's no wonder the place is so screwed up!

A bunch of people running around being offended by inoffensive things while absolutely ignoring the 300 ton elephant sitting in the Whitehouse, Congress and many state legislatures that is genuinely oppressing them.

Rearranging the deckchairs on the Titanic comes to mind.

DrumSteve

Deleted User wrote: »

You'd think he'd look at the photo and realise that most white people had it bad as well. What sort of white privilege did those men feel working down dangerous mines?

As usual though, it warms my heart to know people like this guy are ruining their own lives voluntarily. He obviously doesn't have any of the real issues I or my girlfriend have. Let his victimhood spiral out of control and end up more troubled than we are. He deserves it.

Thinly veiled "I have a girlfriend" post.

markodaly

seamus wrote: »

This is the danger of overthinking art. Like when you're reading a book in school and the teacher picks out a single line and goes into a rambling and convoluted explanation of what that line really means and fifty potential interpretations. When realistically sometimes it just means what it says.

The mistake that the author of this piece has made is to give their subjective offense the same validity as objective offence.

Objective offence is when the artist intends to cause offence with their piece; or that the what the artist intended to portray, is offensive.

Subjective offence is when you derive offence from a piece where that offence or interpretation was not intended by the artist.

In this case, the author has interpreted this picture as a form of blackface, and found it offensive. Which they are perfectly entitled to do.

But the photographer's intention was not to portray blackface. Therefore the picture is not objectively offensive, and the author needs to cop onto himself.

It does say more about his own sense of entitlement; his belief that he is entitled to not be offended; than it does about any photograph.

To play devil's advocate, one could go down a rabbit hole and try to "get inside" the head of the photographer:

- Why did you take this picture?

-- Because it was amusing

- What was amusing about it?

-- They look like n1ggers.

But that's a whole other leap, which is making a thousand assumptions for which there is no evidence. I doubt very much that Wales in the early 1900s had an abundance of black men or any kind of anti-negro movement.

Yep, and people are also entitled to call out this idiot.
The issue with today is that we give credence to every malcontent and idiot out there with an agenda or grudge because it makes clicks and money.

riffmongous

Cienciano wrote: »

No, it's simple really. It's nothing to do with someone offended. You know the way a contrarian journalist basically winds people up? Kevin Myres, Katie Hopkins, the entire daily mail website? All done to get attention, clicks This is no different.

Well if After Hours is anything to go by there is a huge market for this kind of crap, not a day goes by we don't have outrage junkies in here whinging about leftists or snowflakes, and generating clicks and attention for these guys

Sleeper12

NSAman wrote: »

America is screwed. There are so many people here, outraged about everything, that they don’t know what real outrage should be.

It's not just America. There are thousands of threads with outraged posters here on boards & almost as many threads where posters are outraged at the outraged.

dav3

A clickbait thread title leading us to a clickbait article. What's not to love.

markodaly

dav3 wrote: »

A clickbait thread title leading us to a clickbait article. What's not to love.

Perhaps, but if our modern culture didn't persist with the 'everyone needs to be heard', or 'everyone gets a medal' crap then this stuff wouldn't be as pervasive.

Decades ago, most people didn't have a voice, now everyone does and we have realised that most people have nothing interesting to say.

DEFTLEFTHAND

The poorest regions of America are the ex coal mining towns and counties of West Virginia .

Coal miners have always been so privlidged.

Potential-Monke

Why are people calling it art? It's a photo. Of people having a pint after spending the day working in a coal mine. Nothing more. Nothing less.

Deleted User wrote: »

But the start of the fight when the punisher realises combat is unavoidable - he quietly closes the door and takes his belt off to them. A real "domestic violence" image if ever I saw one.

I think you're reading too much into that scene. What I saw was a man being attacked by 2 knife wielding women, so he removes the belt to wrap around his hand to be able to 'block' knife strikes and not get cut. He made use of whatever he had, and it makes complete sense.

Potential-Monke

Potential-Monke wrote: »

I think you're reading too much into that scene. What I saw was a man being attacked by 2 knife wielding women, so he removes the belt to wrap around his hand to be able to 'block' knife strikes and not get cut. He made use of whatever he had, and it makes complete sense.

Exactly what I mean. The scene is perfectly defensible but _could_ be misinterpreted by the permanently outraged if they wanted.

I am of course reading too much into it. That was my point. Much if not all of the outrage is exactly that. People reading things into it that are not there.

And I have been trying to see if I can do it. And that was the only "hit" I got. After really really trying!

So how these people do it _constantly_ is a mystery to me. It takes a mind greater or sicker or both than mine I think.

orourkeda1977

There are far too many adults in our society that have never grown up.

To be offended by something of this nature is absurd.

Firstly, I was a Journalist in a former life and would never even think of submitting a piece of dogsh1t like this to anyone. To have it published is even worse.

Secondly, if we continue to indulge these people where is this "recreational outrage" culture going to end?

I believe that sharing stories like this half the problem. You should never draw attention to something that annoys you. This what a lot of them are designed to do.

Cienciano

riffmongous wrote: »

Well if After Hours is anything to go by there is a huge market for this kind of crap, not a day goes by we don't have outrage junkies in here whinging about leftists or snowflakes, and generating clicks and attention for these guys

I'm amazed so many people can't see through it. They buy right into it.

DublinWriter

Meta outrage - I'm outraged that he's outraged.

Snow Crash

I can't get offended by blackface because of my childhood...