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Bidding on a house - ask for proof of another bid?

  • 29-01-2019 6:21pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 1,211 ✭✭✭Sunrise_Sunset


    When bidding on a house, do people generally take the Estate Agent's word for it that they have received another bid for X amount? Or do you ask for proof?

    We want to place a bid on a property. There is one bid that has been "rejected by the seller". I'm wary because in boom times when we bought our first property, we feel strongly (in hindsight) that the Estate Agent at the time had us involved in a fake bidding war of sorts. We don't want to fall into that trap again.


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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 6,478 ✭✭✭SteM


    What sort of proof do you think you could ask for?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,211 ✭✭✭Sunrise_Sunset


    SteM wrote: »
    What sort of proof do you think you could ask for?

    No idea. Is there a way to verify another bid?


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,158 ✭✭✭facehugger99


    What 'proof' are you hoping for?

    The Estate Agent won't be giving you any personal data on another bidder.

    The idea of 'fake bids' is a myth. While you may "feel strongly" that you were previously in a fake bidding war, facts generally trump feelings.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,211 ✭✭✭Sunrise_Sunset


    What 'proof' are you hoping for?

    The Estate Agent won't be giving you any personal data on another bidder.

    The idea of 'fake bids' is a myth. While you may "feel strongly" that you were previously in a fake bidding war, facts generally trump feelings.

    What are the facts? And where can I get this information you are so sure of?


  • Registered Users Posts: 801 ✭✭✭lucast2007us


    New market rules do not allow them to make up fake bids


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,211 ✭✭✭Sunrise_Sunset


    New market rules do not allow them to make up fake bids

    When did that come into force? And how is it enforced?


  • Registered Users Posts: 120 ✭✭doiredoire


    New market rules do not allow them to make up fake bids

    And everyone in Ireland follows the rules:D


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,261 ✭✭✭topmanamillion


    Estate agents are heavily regulated so faking bids really isn't in their interests. If they were audited they would be asked to provide proof of other bids. If they were unable to do that they could expect heavy fines and ramifications for their licenses. Most work off a base price + commission so there's little point for them of inflating a house price.
    Essentially, they have very little to nothing to gain by fabricating bids and a lot to lose by doing so.
    The best advice I can give is have a price in mind that you are willing to pay for a house.
    To state the obvious, if your price meets the valuation and is the highest bid you'll get the house. That's the simple equation you should focus on.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 422 ✭✭Vetch


    Estate agents are heavily regulated so faking bids really isn't in their interests. If they were audited they would be asked to provide proof of other bids. If they were unable to do that they could expect heavy fines and ramifications for their licenses. Most work off a base price + commission so there's little point for them of inflating a house price.
    Essentially, they have very little to nothing to gain by fabricating bids and a lot to lose by doing so.
    The best advice I can give is have a price in mind that you are willing to pay for a house.
    To state the obvious, if your price meets the valuation and is the highest bid you'll get the house. That's the simple equation you should focus on.

    Are EAs audited as a matter of interest? The EA I bought through asked for all offers in writing so maybe this was their proof if required. So just wondering if audits happen.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,158 ✭✭✭facehugger99


    lililanny wrote: »
    What are the facts? And where can I get this information you are so sure of?

    The 'facts' are that you have no evidence of a fake bid.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,497 ✭✭✭Hoboo


    If the EA is on 2%, they'd be up a grand on 50k. That's the company. The agent is say on 10% commission, so gets €100. After tax, €50.

    Neither the agent or agency would waste their time for crumbs, get it wrapped up and signed asap and onto the next one.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,691 ✭✭✭4ensic15


    Hoboo wrote: »
    If the EA is on 2%, they'd be up a grand on 50k. That's the company. The agent is say on 10% commission, so gets €100. After tax, €50.

    Neither the agent or agency would waste their time for crumbs, get it wrapped up and signed asap and onto the next one.

    If they don't get the price, they won't get the next one.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,497 ✭✭✭Hoboo


    4ensic15 wrote: »
    If they don't get the price, they won't get the next one.

    Not sure what you mean. The market dictates the price not the seller. If someone bids 300 and no one else bids 310 but the seller wants 320 then the buyer is told it's 320. They don't say there's another bid at 310 to try get 320 and risk a complete fook up. If that's the final bid the seller is told, they decide. I've family and friends in the business, I've had this discussion before, they want it sold asap at the best price offered, wrap it up. Time and advertising is worth far more than 2% on a a fee extra grand.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,691 ✭✭✭4ensic15


    Hoboo wrote: »
    Not sure what you mean. The market dictates the price not the seller. If someone bids 300 and no one else bids 310 but the seller wants 320 then the buyer is told it's 320. They don't say there's another bid at 310 to try get 320 and risk a complete fook up. If that's the final bid the seller is told, they decide. I've family and friends in the business, I've had this discussion before, they want it sold asap at the best price offered, wrap it up. Time and advertising is worth far more than 2% on a a fee extra grand.

    If the neighbours think they didn't get the best price for the property they will not instruct that agent. Saying that agents don't want to get the best price because the additional commission is minuscule is missing the fact that getting a good price is the best marketing there is. I once heard an auctioneer boast to his boss, "I sold house x". The boss immediately asked him "what house did you get in to sell in place of it?" It is all about a chain.


  • Registered Users Posts: 419 ✭✭mkdon


    i agree with the poster seems there is a hell of a lot of fake bidding going on because there is simply no evidence of bids... where is the regulation... who can one whistleblow on a dodgey estate agent.... who audits EA s i see no change from 10 years ago and the estate agents are as unregulated as can get and unprofessional mind you


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,325 ✭✭✭✭jimmycrackcorm


    mkdon wrote:
    i agree with the poster seems there is a hell of a lot of fake bidding going on because there is simply no evidence of bids... where is the regulation... who can one whistleblow on a dodgey estate agent.... who audits EA s i see no change from 10 years ago and the estate agents are as unregulated as can get and unprofessional mind you


    My ex went to a viewing and made a bid on a house. But she doesn't have mortgage approval yet.
    The agent took her details and rang her, she made a bid off the cuff.

    So is that a fake bid?
    The agent didn't know. He took it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,211 ✭✭✭Sunrise_Sunset


    My ex went to a viewing and made a bid on a house. But she doesn't have mortgage approval yet.
    The agent took her details and rang her, she made a bid off the cuff.

    So is that a fake bid?
    The agent didn't know. He took it.

    Could be described as fake yes, in my opinion, because it pushes the price up, and the bid has no basis. The Estate Agent did tell us they are asking for proof of mortgage approval before making a bid on this property. However, he did say AIP is fine, and we know, AIP is certainly not the same as mortgage approval.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,812 ✭✭✭Addle


    But agent is genuine in that case.
    He doesn't know the bidders circumstances.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,211 ✭✭✭Sunrise_Sunset


    Addle wrote: »
    But agent is genuine in that case.
    He doesn't know the bidders circumstances.

    Should it be the EA's responsibility to ensure that the bidder has mortgage approval? Otherwise "fake" bids are driving up the price unnecessarily.

    I would describe that as a fake bid of sorts.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,863 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    mkdon wrote: »
    i agree with the poster seems there is a hell of a lot of fake bidding going on because there is simply no evidence of bids... where is the regulation... who can one whistleblow on a dodgey estate agent.... who audits EA s i see no change from 10 years ago and the estate agents are as unregulated as can get and unprofessional mind you

    That is nonsense. You don’t believe the bids are real because there is no evidence, yet you have no evidence the bids are fake? At a time when supply is low, demand is high, a significant proportion of buyers are cash buyers, the number of mortgage approvals is increasing, and most importantly, property prices are rising (albeit slowly at the moment) and selling well above asking, you think a hell of a lot of bids are fake?

    Can you offer a shred of evidence of fake bids?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 24,211 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    lililanny wrote: »
    Could be described as fake yes, in my opinion, because it pushes the price up, and the bid has no basis. The Estate Agent did tell us they are asking for proof of mortgage approval before making a bid on this property. However, he did say AIP is fine, and we know, AIP is certainly not the same as mortgage approval.

    You think someone should be at loan offer stage before making a bid?

    Sure what if your bid got rejected? And you move on to the next house! That's a new loan offer.

    That's not how it works. AIP is exactly for the purposes of giving someone the parameters within which they can make valid bids.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,863 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    lililanny wrote: »
    Should it be the EA's responsibility to ensure that the bidder has mortgage approval? Otherwise "fake" bids are driving up the price unnecessarily.

    I would describe that as a fake bid of sorts.

    What if a buyer has mortgage approval and makes bids on multiple properties, are they fake bids?


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,519 ✭✭✭worded


    The greatest danger of fake bidding is by a mate of the seller. The EA would be unaware


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,863 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    worded wrote: »
    The greatest danger of fake bidding is by a mate of the seller. The EA would be unaware

    The seller is the fake bidder?

    Surely the seller could just tell the EA that bids will not be considered / property will not sell below a certain price.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,691 ✭✭✭4ensic15


    mkdon wrote: »
    i agree with the poster seems there is a hell of a lot of fake bidding going on because there is simply no evidence of bids... where is the regulation... who can one whistleblow on a dodgey estate agent.... who audits EA s i see no change from 10 years ago and the estate agents are as unregulated as can get and unprofessional mind you

    There are a hell of a lot of naive bidders placing bids. It is not a supermarket. people who wouldn't buy a car from anyone but a main dealer expect to be told all kinds of things by an estate agent who is working for the other party in the transaction.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,325 ✭✭✭✭jimmycrackcorm


    worded wrote:
    The greatest danger of fake bidding is by a mate of the seller. The EA would be unaware


    Hardly in the sellers interest though


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,043 ✭✭✭witchgirl26


    If you think an EA is making up fake bids to push the price up you can report them to the regulatory authority who would be the ones to audit them. But as others have pointed out, the cost to the EA personally and the company would be such that the rewards of a fake bid wouldn't be worth the risk. It's very simple - people will not always do the right thing but they'll do the easier thing. It's easier for them to do the right thing for EA's as it will cost them a lot.

    As for using AIP - that's exactly what it's for! For giving you boundaries in which to bid on a property. If you had to go through the full loan process for every house you wanted to potentially bid on, the process would be so drawn out and it would take so much longer as well to get the approval that people would be up in arms about that.

    OP realistically they're not going to show you anything that proves another bid as doing so could actually breach GDPR (they can't exactly send across someone's emailed bid). And if they redacted all the personal information in it, how would you know it was more real than them telling you?


  • Registered Users Posts: 724 ✭✭✭Askthe EA


    Once again, fake bids just dont happen.

    I know people like to believe they do, but they dont. Its simply not worth the risk to our license and therefore our careers.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 14,846 ✭✭✭✭Liam McPoyle


    Askthe EA wrote: »
    Once again, fake bids just dont happen.

    I know people like to believe they do, but they dont. Its simply not worth the risk to our license and therefore our careers.

    I'm not so sure. We went sale agreed on a property late last year. The under bidder was allegedly €4.5k under our winning bid. Unfortunately the sale of our house fell through so we had to withdraw our offer. Through out the process the vendor and agent had told us the under bidder was still in the loop and their offer stood. I checked the property price register yesterday and the house sold for €15,500 less than what we had been told the under bidder had offered.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 33 Dublindamo


    Askthe EA wrote: »
    Once again, fake bids just dont happen.

    I know people like to believe they do, but they dont. Its simply not worth the risk to our license and therefore our careers.

    Naive to think this doesn't happen. We were very keen on a house recently. Asking was 735 and EA said they had an offer of 727 on it. They were sure we would bid but we didn't in the end. The following week the asking was reduced to 699. Showed to me that the 727 offer was not genuine.


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