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Bidding on a house - ask for proof of another bid?

Sunrise_Sunset

When bidding on a house, do people generally take the Estate Agent's word for it that they have received another bid for X amount? Or do you ask for proof?

We want to place a bid on a property. There is one bid that has been "rejected by the seller". I'm wary because in boom times when we bought our first property, we feel strongly (in hindsight) that the Estate Agent at the time had us involved in a fake bidding war of sorts. We don't want to fall into that trap again.

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jimmycrackcorm

worded wrote:

The greatest danger of fake bidding is by a mate of the seller. The EA would be unaware

Hardly in the sellers interest though

4ensic15

mkdon wrote: »

i agree with the poster seems there is a hell of a lot of fake bidding going on because there is simply no evidence of bids... where is the regulation... who can one whistleblow on a dodgey estate agent.... who audits EA s i see no change from 10 years ago and the estate agents are as unregulated as can get and unprofessional mind you

There are a hell of a lot of naive bidders placing bids. It is not a supermarket. people who wouldn't buy a car from anyone but a main dealer expect to be told all kinds of things by an estate agent who is working for the other party in the transaction.

[Deleted User]

worded wrote: »

The greatest danger of fake bidding is by a mate of the seller. The EA would be unaware

The seller is the fake bidder?

Surely the seller could just tell the EA that bids will not be considered / property will not sell below a certain price.

worded

The greatest danger of fake bidding is by a mate of the seller. The EA would be unaware

[Deleted User]

lililanny wrote: »

Should it be the EA's responsibility to ensure that the bidder has mortgage approval? Otherwise "fake" bids are driving up the price unnecessarily.

I would describe that as a fake bid of sorts.

What if a buyer has mortgage approval and makes bids on multiple properties, are they fake bids?

lawred2

lililanny wrote: »

Could be described as fake yes, in my opinion, because it pushes the price up, and the bid has no basis. The Estate Agent did tell us they are asking for proof of mortgage approval before making a bid on this property. However, he did say AIP is fine, and we know, AIP is certainly not the same as mortgage approval.

You think someone should be at loan offer stage before making a bid?

Sure what if your bid got rejected? And you move on to the next house! That's a new loan offer.

That's not how it works. AIP is exactly for the purposes of giving someone the parameters within which they can make valid bids.

[Deleted User]

mkdon wrote: »

i agree with the poster seems there is a hell of a lot of fake bidding going on because there is simply no evidence of bids... where is the regulation... who can one whistleblow on a dodgey estate agent.... who audits EA s i see no change from 10 years ago and the estate agents are as unregulated as can get and unprofessional mind you

That is nonsense. You don’t believe the bids are real because there is no evidence, yet you have no evidence the bids are fake? At a time when supply is low, demand is high, a significant proportion of buyers are cash buyers, the number of mortgage approvals is increasing, and most importantly, property prices are rising (albeit slowly at the moment) and selling well above asking, you think a hell of a lot of bids are fake?

Can you offer a shred of evidence of fake bids?

Sunrise_Sunset

Addle wrote: »

But agent is genuine in that case.
He doesn't know the bidders circumstances.

Should it be the EA's responsibility to ensure that the bidder has mortgage approval? Otherwise "fake" bids are driving up the price unnecessarily.

I would describe that as a fake bid of sorts.

Addle

But agent is genuine in that case.
He doesn't know the bidders circumstances.

Sunrise_Sunset

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

My ex went to a viewing and made a bid on a house. But she doesn't have mortgage approval yet.
The agent took her details and rang her, she made a bid off the cuff.

So is that a fake bid?
The agent didn't know. He took it.

Could be described as fake yes, in my opinion, because it pushes the price up, and the bid has no basis. The Estate Agent did tell us they are asking for proof of mortgage approval before making a bid on this property. However, he did say AIP is fine, and we know, AIP is certainly not the same as mortgage approval.

jimmycrackcorm

mkdon wrote:

i agree with the poster seems there is a hell of a lot of fake bidding going on because there is simply no evidence of bids... where is the regulation... who can one whistleblow on a dodgey estate agent.... who audits EA s i see no change from 10 years ago and the estate agents are as unregulated as can get and unprofessional mind you

My ex went to a viewing and made a bid on a house. But she doesn't have mortgage approval yet.
The agent took her details and rang her, she made a bid off the cuff.

So is that a fake bid?
The agent didn't know. He took it.

mkdon

i agree with the poster seems there is a hell of a lot of fake bidding going on because there is simply no evidence of bids... where is the regulation... who can one whistleblow on a dodgey estate agent.... who audits EA s i see no change from 10 years ago and the estate agents are as unregulated as can get and unprofessional mind you

4ensic15

Hoboo wrote: »

Not sure what you mean. The market dictates the price not the seller. If someone bids 300 and no one else bids 310 but the seller wants 320 then the buyer is told it's 320. They don't say there's another bid at 310 to try get 320 and risk a complete fook up. If that's the final bid the seller is told, they decide. I've family and friends in the business, I've had this discussion before, they want it sold asap at the best price offered, wrap it up. Time and advertising is worth far more than 2% on a a fee extra grand.

If the neighbours think they didn't get the best price for the property they will not instruct that agent. Saying that agents don't want to get the best price because the additional commission is minuscule is missing the fact that getting a good price is the best marketing there is. I once heard an auctioneer boast to his boss, "I sold house x". The boss immediately asked him "what house did you get in to sell in place of it?" It is all about a chain.

Hoboo

4ensic15 wrote: »

If they don't get the price, they won't get the next one.

Not sure what you mean. The market dictates the price not the seller. If someone bids 300 and no one else bids 310 but the seller wants 320 then the buyer is told it's 320. They don't say there's another bid at 310 to try get 320 and risk a complete fook up. If that's the final bid the seller is told, they decide. I've family and friends in the business, I've had this discussion before, they want it sold asap at the best price offered, wrap it up. Time and advertising is worth far more than 2% on a a fee extra grand.

4ensic15

Hoboo wrote: »

If the EA is on 2%, they'd be up a grand on 50k. That's the company. The agent is say on 10% commission, so gets €100. After tax, €50.

Neither the agent or agency would waste their time for crumbs, get it wrapped up and signed asap and onto the next one.

If they don't get the price, they won't get the next one.

Hoboo

If the EA is on 2%, they'd be up a grand on 50k. That's the company. The agent is say on 10% commission, so gets €100. After tax, €50.

Neither the agent or agency would waste their time for crumbs, get it wrapped up and signed asap and onto the next one.

facehugger99

lililanny wrote: »

What are the facts? And where can I get this information you are so sure of?

The 'facts' are that you have no evidence of a fake bid.

Vetch

topmanamillion wrote: »

Estate agents are heavily regulated so faking bids really isn't in their interests. If they were audited they would be asked to provide proof of other bids. If they were unable to do that they could expect heavy fines and ramifications for their licenses. Most work off a base price + commission so there's little point for them of inflating a house price.
Essentially, they have very little to nothing to gain by fabricating bids and a lot to lose by doing so.
The best advice I can give is have a price in mind that you are willing to pay for a house.
To state the obvious, if your price meets the valuation and is the highest bid you'll get the house. That's the simple equation you should focus on.

Are EAs audited as a matter of interest? The EA I bought through asked for all offers in writing so maybe this was their proof if required. So just wondering if audits happen.

topmanamillion

Estate agents are heavily regulated so faking bids really isn't in their interests. If they were audited they would be asked to provide proof of other bids. If they were unable to do that they could expect heavy fines and ramifications for their licenses. Most work off a base price + commission so there's little point for them of inflating a house price.
Essentially, they have very little to nothing to gain by fabricating bids and a lot to lose by doing so.
The best advice I can give is have a price in mind that you are willing to pay for a house.
To state the obvious, if your price meets the valuation and is the highest bid you'll get the house. That's the simple equation you should focus on.

doiredoire

lucast2007us wrote: »

New market rules do not allow them to make up fake bids

And everyone in Ireland follows the rules:D

Sunrise_Sunset

lucast2007us wrote: »

New market rules do not allow them to make up fake bids

When did that come into force? And how is it enforced?

lucast2007us

New market rules do not allow them to make up fake bids

Sunrise_Sunset

facehugger99 wrote: »

What 'proof' are you hoping for?

The Estate Agent won't be giving you any personal data on another bidder.

The idea of 'fake bids' is a myth. While you may "feel strongly" that you were previously in a fake bidding war, facts generally trump feelings.

What are the facts? And where can I get this information you are so sure of?

facehugger99

What 'proof' are you hoping for?

The Estate Agent won't be giving you any personal data on another bidder.

The idea of 'fake bids' is a myth. While you may "feel strongly" that you were previously in a fake bidding war, facts generally trump feelings.

Sunrise_Sunset

SteM wrote: »

What sort of proof do you think you could ask for?

No idea. Is there a way to verify another bid?

SteM

What sort of proof do you think you could ask for?