Ireland has highest proportion of 25-54 year olds with 3rd level education in Europe

28-01-2019 05:12PM

Deleted User wrote: »

One of the most extraordinary achievements of fee-paying schools in Ireland is convincing people they don't exist.

What's the evidence that we don't have a two-tier education system?

I'm not sure what background has to do with stopping people going on to third level education in the UK or the US either.

kneemos · 28-01-2019 05:13PM

Augeo wrote: »

The status is level 6 on the NFQ, you reckon it should be higher?

Nothing to do with NFQ. it's the expectation of second level students to do third level.

Subcomandante Marcos · 28-01-2019 05:20PM

kneemos wrote: »

From a previous thread.

My best mate is a plumber, I did his books for him in 2017 and he put 125k through them, you can be sure there was at least another 50k not going through them.

I can assure you your friend is the exception, not the rule.

How long is your friend in his field?
How much do you think an economist at say Deloitte makes after 5 years? 10 years?
How much do you think someone at Google for 5 years makes in positions like porgramming or sales or human resources?
What about a hospital consultant who also has a private practice?

zl1whqvjs75cdy · 28-01-2019 05:24PM

kneemos wrote: »

From a previous thread.

My best mate is a plumber, I did his books for him in 2017 and he put 125k through them, you can be sure there was at least another 50k not going through them.

Assuming he works a standard 220 day year and even every single Saturday of the year that's 270 days a year. Making 175 k a year means 650 quid a day every single day of the year. If he's working 10 hours a day with no lunch he's still charging 65 quid an hour, and that assumes absolutely zero transit time between jobs. Not sure I fully buy that one.

Subcomandante Marcos · 28-01-2019 05:29PM

donkeyoaty0099 wrote: »

Assuming he works a standard 220 day year and even every single Saturday of the year that's 270 days a year. Making 175 k a year means 650 quid a day every single day of the year. If he's working 10 hours a day with no lunch he's still charging 65 quid an hour, and that assumes absolutely zero transit time between jobs. Not sure I fully buy that one.

His friend is self employed and probably has a few lads working under him, so you can subtract their pay from those figures.

DEFTLEFTHAND · 28-01-2019 05:29PM

donkeyoaty0099 wrote: »

Assuming he works a standard 220 day year and even every single Saturday of the year that's 270 days a year. Making 175 k a year means 650 quid a day every single day of the year. If he's working 10 hours a day with no lunch he's still charging 65 quid an hour, and that assumes absolutely zero transit time between jobs. Not sure I fully buy that one.

He's probably running a small plumbing firm.

I doubt he's a sole trader.

LirW · 28-01-2019 05:35PM

I did books for a small trades company too for a few years, they'd have a similar turnaround as said plumber friend but after paying his subs, taxes and usual work-related costs he'd net a third of that. Wasn't in Ireland though.

Ficheall · 28-01-2019 05:35PM

setanta1000 wrote: »

Don't know what you mean by indeterminable merit - do you mean you cannot determine the quality of the degree?

I mean it's exceedingly difficult to fail a degree here.

Mrs OBumble · 28-01-2019 05:40PM

Murray TheDemonic TalkingSkull wrote: »

Nothing wrong with having a highly educated population. Lifts us all out of the darkness.

One in six cannot read though.

LirW · 28-01-2019 05:45PM

Plenty of degrees are more of a perseverance exercise than useful training that leave you with high skills.
There's a whole range of degrees from really easy as long as you show up and do a bare minimum to the ones where you fail if you're not full-time committed or have a good logical understanding of the matter.
A graduate isn't automatically an intelligent and free-thinking individual.

I don't wanna take away from anyone's academic achievements here, I'm merely pointing out that there's a huge difference between degrees and fields in difficulty to succeed in the course.

setanta1000 · 28-01-2019 06:30PM

Ficheall wrote: »

I mean it's exceedingly difficult to fail a degree here.

And yet an average of 13% of 1st year third level students drop out of third level degree courses - so is that higher or lower than you think it should be?

kneemos · 28-01-2019 06:39PM

donkeyoaty0099 wrote: »

Assuming he works a standard 220 day year and even every single Saturday of the year that's 270 days a year. Making 175 k a year means 650 quid a day every single day of the year. If he's working 10 hours a day with no lunch he's still charging 65 quid an hour, and that assumes absolutely zero transit time between jobs. Not sure I fully buy that one.

The call out charge is 65 quid or more, that's before he even gets there.

Paddy Cow · 28-01-2019 06:40PM

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

I seem to recall reports in recent times questioning the difficulty level of recent exams and courses alright. By all accounts even the Leaving is easier than it used to be.

There's also something to be said about everyone having degrees and masters not only driving down wages through oversupply, but also cutting out those who don't have one, even though their ability and experience may be much stronger.

As someone who manages an IT department and occasionally hires, I'm far more interested in someone's experience and attitude than just what paperwork they have. Cop on, ambition and someone who "gets" the needs of the role is far more important to me.

They took integration off the higher maths syllabus a few years ago, which is crazy if people want to go into engineering. It's like teaching addition but not subtraction.

28-01-2019 06:44PM

Deleted User wrote: »

One of the most extraordinary achievements of fee-paying schools in Ireland is convincing people they don't exist.

What's the evidence that we don't have a two-tier education system?

6% of school are fee paying in Ireland its tiny whole Swades of the country have no fee-paying schools, yet you get the tired old stereotypes trotted out all the time.

James Brown · 28-01-2019 06:48PM

orourkeda1977 wrote: »

I'm studying for my third degree.

I'm unemployed.

Go college education.

Have you ever worked, do you intend on being an 'academic'? Just curious. Anytime I was out of work for a long period I'd take a course to try broaden the CV, but it was always with the view of getting a job.
Decent pop group, but why 3 degrees? Would going further on in one area not make more sense? Degrees are the broad basis in an area.
Also doesn't the state only assist with the first?

28-01-2019 06:51PM

The other point about doing a trade is finding an apprenticeship it's not as simple as filling in the CAO form and its still one area where contacts go a long way there is a big commitment in taking on an apprentice.

James Brown · 28-01-2019 06:59PM

Aegir wrote: »

I'm not sure what background has to do with stopping people going on to third level education in the UK or the US either.

Socio-economics. I know people were third level was the common thing to do. I know others were nobody attended third level but got a job at 16 if there was one. Some secondaries hardly bother with talk of third level.
For some it's get working as soon as you can, for others it's do a degree then take a year off travelling. I always said I couldn't afford to be a hippy or new age traveler or what ever, these people are usually from wealthy families or sponging off family and friends. If I had went off for a year I'd have had no home to return to. Different worlds.

28-01-2019 08:12PM

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Socio-economics. I know people were third level was the common thing to do. I know others were nobody attended third level but got a job at 16 if there was one. Some secondaries hardly bother with talk of third level.
For some it's get working as soon as you can, for others it's do a degree then take a year off travelling. I always said I couldn't afford to be a hippy or new age traveler or what ever, these people are usually from wealthy families or sponging off family and friends. If I had went off for a year I'd have had no home to return to. Different worlds.

I don’t see how Ireland is any better or worse then elsewhere in that regard.

28-01-2019 08:22PM

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Socio-economics. I know people were third level was the common thing to do. I know others were nobody attended third level but got a job at 16 if there was one. Some secondaries hardly bother with talk of third level.
For some it's get working as soon as you can, for others it's do a degree then take a year off travelling. I always said I couldn't afford to be a hippy or new age traveler or what ever, these people are usually from wealthy families or sponging off family and friends. If I had went off for a year I'd have had no home to return to. Different worlds.

Almost complete nonsense lots of people travel self-funded all school promoted third level, there are lots of schemes to support those for a low-income house to attend college including an enhanced grant. how do people still believer tired old stereotypes like that, the 1980s was 30 years ago.

James Brown · 28-01-2019 08:26PM

Aegir wrote: »

I don’t see how Ireland is any better or worse then elsewhere in that regard.

You said

I'm not sure what background has to do with stopping people going on to third level

And does it matter? It exists as an issue. Suggesting it's no different elsewhere doesn't address it or stop it happening, it's not homelessness, (see FG/Leo).

mariaalice wrote: »

Almost complete nonsense lots of people travel self-funded all school promoted third level, there are lots of schemes to support those for a low-income house to attend college including an enhanced grant. how do people still believer tired old stereotypes like that, the 1980s was 30 years ago.

You've almost no clue. Money and time are required. Yes there are grants but can your family do without any income you might provide for 3 or 4 years, if a family are struggling? What if virtually nobody from your school attends 3rd level do you think you'd be encouraged, helped towards applying?
'All schools' certainly do not push pupils onto 3rd level. They know the realities of their students.
What's your explanation? People from poorer backgrounds don't want a career or the prospect of a decent income because?

28-01-2019 08:53PM

http://accesscollege.ie/hear/ among others, Trinity has excellent support for low income and non-traditional students. The number of families who requires a 18-year-old to work full time would be tiny. SVdP often pays the third level registration for students and so on there is a huge amount of support out there.

28-01-2019 08:57PM

Paddy Cow wrote: »

They took integration off the higher maths syllabus a few years ago, which is crazy if people want to go into engineering. It's like teaching addition but not subtraction.

Did they really??

James Brown · 28-01-2019 09:19PM

mariaalice wrote: »

http://accesscollege.ie/hear/ among others, Trinity has excellent support for low income and non-traditional students. The number of families who requires a 18-year-old to work full time would be tiny. SVdP often pays the third level registration for students and so on there is a huge amount of support out there.

There is money available. Never said there wasn't. I'd hardly hold asking a charity for help up there as an example of there being no problem though.

Noveight · 28-01-2019 09:22PM

There'll be nobody left to swing a shovel.

28-01-2019 09:32PM

Noveight wrote: »

There'll be nobody left to swing a shovel.

Don't worry there will be thousands of Romanians and Bulgarians coming to do it.

28-01-2019 09:37PM

Matt Barrett wrote: »

You said
And does it matter? It exists as an issue. Suggesting it's no different elsewhere doesn't address it or stop it happening,

Yes, misunderstanding, apologies. The OP was saying that background in the UK and US affects where you can go to third level education, unlike Ireland.

I fail to see how Ireland is any different in that regard.

Giveaway · 28-01-2019 09:46PM

Anything STEM seems to be worthwhile. Encounter a lot of postgrad student doing the one course. A bare pass engineering student is better quality than a 1st in non stem subject(social sciences, commerce, arts)

rosmoke · 28-01-2019 09:58PM

mariaalice wrote: »

Don't worry there will be thousands of Romanians and Bulgarians coming to do it.

I'm Romanian, and sorry to disappoint you .. cause I work in a multinational, so you can keep that shovel for yourself.

I know you probably meant no harm, it's just sickening to read not so well thought words.
We're in 2019, and still label societies and place borders in between us, instead of building bridges.

And going back on-topic.
I've went through 3rd level education here and I loved it, I've found it extremely easy, and impossible to fail.
Quantity != Quality.
If I would have to compare it with the educational system in Romania, I'd say the one from over there it is extremely difficult (the maths we do in high school there, I've done it here at 3rd level), curriculum is extremely outdated, teachers bad paid, it's all due to a corrupt government.

skooterblue2 · 28-01-2019 09:59PM

Murray TheDemonic TalkingSkull wrote: »

Nothing wrong with having a highly educated population. Lifts us all out of the darkness.

I know, you now need a degree to get a job in Starbucks. I wonder how many arts degrees are necessary for people to get jobs that couldnt be solved with a 8 month secretarial course?

29-01-2019 12:01AM

kneemos wrote: »

From a previous thread.

My best mate is a plumber, I did his books for him in 2017 and he put 125k through them, you can be sure there was at least another 50k not going through them.

donkeyoaty0099 wrote: »

Assuming he works a standard 220 day year and even every single Saturday of the year that's 270 days a year. Making 175 k a year means 650 quid a day every single day of the year. If he's working 10 hours a day with no lunch he's still charging 65 quid an hour, and that assumes absolutely zero transit time between jobs. Not sure I fully buy that one.

Subcomandante Marcos wrote: »

His friend is self employed and probably has a few lads working under him, so you can subtract their pay from those figures.

What he put through includes VAT etc too....the accountant didn't claim he paid himself 125k

Even if he's a one man show what's put through the company wouldn't be just labour.... the guy would be charging thousands for parts too.

More remarkable is that someone takes that example as somehow justifying his claim that a trade trumps college. You'd struggle to fathom how anyone could be so glum....

Ireland has highest proportion of 25-54 year olds with 3rd level education in Europe

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