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Brexit Discussion Thread VI

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  • #6812
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 41,934 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    One-liners deleted.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • #6813
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 43,049 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Ford claiming that a no deal will cost heavily from a financial and employment perspective...
    https://twitter.com/Doozy_45/status/1088431950648479744?s=19


    Separately Sky appear to have held some kind of badly worded survey on how people's choice to leave.
    On top of that, they erm to have messed up the results...
    https://twitter.com/incrediblesie/status/1088506745712988160?s=19


  • #6814
    An Ciarraioch
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,806 ✭✭✭An Ciarraioch


    Heads of Bills for no-deal Brexit legislation published by the Government:

    https://www.rte.ie/news/2019/0124/1025281-plans-for-brexit/


  • #6815
    Enzokk
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,988 ✭✭✭Enzokk


    trellheim wrote: »
    the pol corrs are getting themselves worked up in a circle something awful .


    1. The EU says "in the event of a no deal there will have to be a huge amount of work done to avoid a border " (said work implying the UK stays in the EU and so forth )

    this leads to a truly silly logic jump from the poll corrs

    2. "so why need the backstop at all ? Surely its not needed therefore "


    AAAARGGGG

    I hope that there are talks on the side to avoid a border in a no deal scenario. This would mean an Irish Sea border which the DUP will not like, but seeing as they didn't sign up to the GFA I think it is safe to assume they weren't going to like it either way.

    eggman100 wrote: »
    Either you weren't there or you have short memories. Nobody did as much for the remain campaign as Cameron and Osborne. They both campaigned their asses off telling us what terrible things would happen if we voted to leave


    You have taken a break but for anyone else who might be thinking about this, here is an article that shows what steps were taken to avoid those predictions made by Cameron and Osborne and the Bank of England. In hindsight it would have been better to do nothing and let project fear play out, but they decided the prudent measures was the best option,

    This is the Bank of England's all-action response to Brexit


  • #6816
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,705 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Was out and about and heard a garbled RTE news item on the headphones about Juncker phoning Leo this evening...anyone know the story?


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  • #6817
    Strazdas
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,440 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    Was out and about and heard a garbled RTE news item on the headphones about Juncker phoning Leo this evening...anyone know the story?

    Here you go :

    https://twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1088506289339199492


  • #6818
    Kermit.de.frog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    https://twitter.com/sebastiankurz/status/1088522589172043776

    https://twitter.com/guyverhofstadt/status/1088402063736913920

    Hard not to notice the more forthright tone from EU leaders today.


  • #6819
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,705 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Strazdas wrote: »
    Here you go :

    https://twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1088506289339199492

    Cheers. The message to the UK seems to be getting underlined at Davos today. Also good to hear Leo say that the UK will be asked to uphold their commitments to the GFA in the event of a crash out. Good to have that as a fallback.


  • #6820
    Capt'n Midnight
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 95,137 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    Leroy42 wrote: »
    And now we have Tory MP's calling for nationalisation of factories, which thought they were totally against and what they hate so much about Corbyn.

    https://twitter.com/DCBMEP/status/1088348314930679809?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1088348314930679809&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theguardian.com%2Fpolitics%2Flive%2F2019%2Fjan%2F24%2Fbrexit-latest-news-developments-may-union-leaders-airbus-says-it-could-close-factories-in-the-uk-in-the-event-of-no-deal-politics-live

    Yesterday we had JRM calling for the closing of parliament if a vote didn't go they way he liked, so sovereignty up to a point I suppose.

    The the collective idea seems to be that democracy in the form of voting is actually undemocratic!
    Comedy Gold

    Airbus UK don't make aircraft. They make some wings and other bits.

    If you nationalise the factory you will have just two potential customesr for wings that only fit on a certain brand, and Airbus won't be buying.

    That just leaves Iran. And only during periods of sanctions when they don't have spare hard currency. And the US won't be happy with that.

    #takebackcontrol

    Developing new aircraft isn't cheap. Even Airbus and Boeing have gone to Bombardier and Embraer respectively rather than try to develop something smaller than a 737 or A319.

    China is also ramping up aircraft technology so good luck on the open market. If you don't have good trade deals or huge government support then perhaps the only way into the market would be to buy Russian companies.


    It's the Brexit , UK as a global trader on it's own myth in miniature.


  • #6821
    Capt'n Midnight
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 95,137 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    marieholmfan wrote: »
    The UK should make clear that declarations of economic war against a NUCLEAR power are very very unwise.
    Did you forget the bit where it was the UK that triggered Article 50 ?

    The French have nukes. And they don't need to get launch access from Washington.

    Reductio ad absurdum beaks a lot when you try to use it on Brexit.


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  • #6822
    Capt'n Midnight
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 95,137 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    LuckyLloyd wrote: »
    Deliciously spun by the Telegraph opinion machine:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/01/23/dysons-move-shows-thatcherite-dream-free-market-brexit-dying/



    (Emphasis mine)

    So there you have it. Dyson isn't leaving Britain because of Brexit, it's because Brexit is unlikely to be Brexity enough. Singapore on Thames dashed, etc.
    Singapore has a FTA with the EU

    The UK might not.


    Dyson is the guy who warned about Chinese students in the UK stealing secrets. There are lots of Chinese in Singapore, over three quarters of the population in fact.

    Just another mé feiner


  • #6823
    prawnsambo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,546 ✭✭✭✭prawnsambo


    Capt'n Midnight wrote: »
    Singapore has a FTA with the EU

    The UK might not.


    Dyson is the guy who warned about Chinese students in the UK stealing secrets. There are lots of Chinese in Singapore, over three quarters of the population in fact.

    Just another mé feiner
    Yep. The same guy was warning the UK government that they'd better maintain farming subsidies after brexit. He is personally the biggest farmer in the UK. It would be an unfortunate side effect if the predicted collapse of farming after brexit came about.


  • #6824
    Folkstonian
    Closed Accounts Posts: 421 ✭✭Folkstonian


    Capt'n Midnight wrote: »
    Did you forget the bit where it was the UK that triggered Article 50 ?

    The French have nukes. And they don't need to get launch access from Washington.

    Reductio ad absurdum beaks a lot when you try to use it on Brexit.


    Britain maintains an independent nuclear deterrent. It doesn’t rely on American GPS for targeting and doesn’t require any authorisation from America to be used. Why are you regurgitating a long disproved slur?


  • #6825
    2ygb4cmqetsjhx
    Closed Accounts Posts: 564 ✭✭✭2ygb4cmqetsjhx


    Surely people don't think Brexit brings us closer to the prospect of Nuclear war. There will be a deal. Or there will be no brexit. :D


  • #6826
    prawnsambo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,546 ✭✭✭✭prawnsambo


    Folkstonian wrote: »
    Britain maintains an independent nuclear deterrent. It doesn’t rely on American GPS for targeting and doesn’t require any authorisation from America to be used. Why are you regurgitating a long disproved slur?
    It's kind of strange that you'd take issue with a technical aspect of what was a tongue in cheek riposte while sailing airily by the post that he replied to. Unless of course you think that threatening nuclear war on your nearest neighbours over a withdrawal agreement is an appropriate response.


  • #6827
    EdgeCase
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,471 ✭✭✭EdgeCase


    I'm not entirely sure why everyone in the British media took the advice of an overpriced vacuum cleaner company CEO instead of the rather more technically sound advice being given by countless economists.


  • #6828
    Infini
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,653 ✭✭✭Infini


    Kermit.de.frog wrote: »
    https://twitter.com/sebastiankurz/status/1088522589172043776

    https://twitter.com/guyverhofstadt/status/1088402063736913920

    Hard not to notice the more forthright tone from EU leaders today.

    To be honest it has to be made perfectly clear this is the only agreement on the table. If its unpalatable then the only sane choice is abandoning Brexit because a crashout will have severe political and economic consequences for the UK.

    The simple truth is this is the endgame and the moment it genuinely looks like the UK will crash out is when well likely see the most severe consequences of this crystalise. I think the only reason we haven't seen a crash or drop in sterling at this point is the markets still think the UK isnt going to crash out and in fairness a deal or a50 cancellation is far more likely than a no deal crash.


  • #6829
    Leroy42
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,074 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    Those statements fro Murz, Verhostadt etc are good. The BBC and other journos in the UK have been pushing the idea that the EU is starting to falter in its resolve in relation to the backstop.

    I think, part of this is down to the EU being open to an extension of A50. This seems to being viewed as a climbdown an an invitation to reopen the WA, when I think as it is is the EU trying to give TM the room for the HoC to actually come to some agreement.

    As Barnier said yesterday, simply voting against something doesn't stop the exit, it is the default, and thus the UK need actually come to a position.


  • #6830
    EdgeCase
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,471 ✭✭✭EdgeCase


    Folkstonian wrote: »
    Britain maintains an independent nuclear deterrent. It doesn’t rely on American GPS for targeting and doesn’t require any authorisation from America to be used. Why are you regurgitating a long disproved slur?

    Well, if you want to go down the route towards being a slightly more bonkers version of modern Russia, that's one way to do it.

    Threaten nuclear war on NATO members (while being a member of NATO) and have politicians making ridiculous about nationalising parts of multinational companies.

    That's precisely how to behave as a rogue state and drive every bit of investment out of your country.

    It's 2019, not 1819!

    These kinds of statements are utterly risible !


  • #6831
    lawred2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,757 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    Folkstonian wrote: »
    Britain maintains an independent nuclear deterrent. It doesn’t rely on American GPS for targeting and doesn’t require any authorisation from America to be used. Why are you regurgitating a long disproved slur?

    What has nuclear launch abilities got to with Brexit? Seriously?

    People's livelihoods and citizen's rights are what matters... not some teenage fantasies about war games.


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  • #6832
    aindriu80
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,968 ✭✭✭aindriu80


    What do you make of the polish leader Mateusz Morawiecki having a go at Ireland :

    https://www.independent.ie/business/gavin-mcloughlin-leo-varadkar-was-brutally-undercut-by-his-polish-counterpart-in-front-of-the-worlds-most-influential-people-37745441.html

    That country is starting to stink a lot for me


  • #6833
    Hurrache
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,385 ✭✭✭✭Hurrache


    Leroy42 wrote: »
    Those statements fro Murz, Verhostadt etc are good. The BBC and other journos in the UK have been pushing the idea that the EU is starting to falter in its resolve in relation to the backstop

    I watched the ex PM of Finland, now European Investment Bank VP, speak about it today. The video is 5 minutes long but worth a watch I think. No diplomatic speak here, straight talking and had no time for the idea that the EU should move on the backstop, he said the issue with May's WA being hammered so much is not because of the backstop. He believes that the hard brexiteers have realised the mess they got themselves into. If he's saying this, the EU negotiation team are obviously thinking it too.

    https://twitter.com/Brexit/status/1088394775558946816?s=19


  • #6834
    EdgeCase
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,471 ✭✭✭EdgeCase


    aindriu80 wrote: »
    What do you make of the polish leader Mateusz Morawiecki having a go at Ireland :

    https://www.independent.ie/business/gavin-mcloughlin-leo-varadkar-was-brutally-undercut-by-his-polish-counterpart-in-front-of-the-worlds-most-influential-people-37745441.html

    That country is starting to stink a lot for me

    I'd suggest they're probably annoyed that an Irish judge kicked them into touch over their courts reforms by referring an extradition case to the ECJ in a case that calls Poland's compliance with EU basic standards of democracy into question and then I would bring up their slight love affair with coal power stations and chopping down ancient forests, but I'm not a petty person so, I won't.


  • #6835
    Folkstonian
    Closed Accounts Posts: 421 ✭✭Folkstonian


    EdgeCase wrote: »
    Well, if you want to go down the route towards being a slightly more bonkers version of modern Russia, that's one way to do it.

    Threaten nuclear war on NATO members (while being a member of NATO) and have politicians making ridiculous about nationalising parts of multinational companies.

    That's precisely how to behave as a rogue state and drive every bit of investment out of your country.

    It's 2019, not 1819!

    These kinds of statements are utterly risible !

    Not sure where I said I thought that it would be expedient or advantageous to declare nuclear war on our closest continental ‘neighbour’.

    I simply corrected what read as a deliberate attempt to distort the truth and not a ‘tongue in cheek riposte’.

    But anyway I’m getting quite fed up with the whole endeavour now. I’ve swung from being a remainer, to a Brexit supporter, back to a remainer, and back yet again to a Brexit supporter. I just want it to be over now and hope we salvage some kind of deal. It’s going to mean a few years of turbulence but that will just have to be negotiated.

    I’m finding it ever harder to find the political dynamic of the European Union as agreeable prospect going forward. Geemany and France have ignited the afterburners on economic and military integration. Things that were written off as unhelpful and impossible scare stories just a few years ago are now being talked about by heads of state and willed on by influential MEPs.

    I think we’ve got to a stage where there’s no going back, for anybody, and an extension of article 50 will be dreaded by all sides.


  • #6836
    Leroy42
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,074 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    Yet another misleading and apparently anti-Irish re Brexit headline in the Indo.

    I wonder what the thinking behind this agenda is? He wasn't undercut, Poland have a particular view and Ireland have another. It is very like an Express headline (Farage demolishes Remainers, TM teaches Corbyn a lesson, JRM makes a devastating point to prove remainers wrong) in its wording.

    Clearly Ireland is under, and will continue to face increasing pressure, over our tax rates


  • #6837
    downcow
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,680 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    Jmccoy1 wrote: »
    So in effect they are proposing that the republic have a hard border with the rest of the EU. That would be disastrous for FDI and jobs within the republic. To hell with the north if that is the option being proposed.

    I am finding it difficult to engage with this discussion. It seems people from ‘ireland’ can be as offensive as the wish towards Northern Ireland but dare us from the ‘north’ say a word that may be seen as disengeniois or we are reprimanded.
    I know you guys are very frustrated about the direction of things but don’t shoot the messenger.
    Tbh I am not rattled with being told to go to hell above or the other endless derogatory stuff about the north, our elected reps, our government, etc. But I think there needs to be a wee bit of openness to take it if you give it.
    Guess that might be me in trouble again but when we are all gone you will be able to have nice discussions about how awful the brits are without anyone challenging the attitudes


  • #6838
    Hurrache
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,385 ✭✭✭✭Hurrache


    aindriu80 wrote: »
    What do you make of the polish leader Mateusz Morawiecki having a go at Ireland :

    https://www.independent.ie/business/gavin-mcloughlin-leo-varadkar-was-brutally-undercut-by-his-polish-counterpart-in-front-of-the-worlds-most-influential-people-37745441.html

    That country is starting to stink a lot for me

    Pay no attention to what that rag says about anything. They've been wrong all week and are just looking for reasons to take a swipe at the government. I won't even click that link.


  • #6839
    EdgeCase
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,471 ✭✭✭EdgeCase


    Leroy42 wrote: »
    Yet another misleading and apparently anti-Irish re Brexit headline in the Indo.

    I wonder what the thinking behind this agenda is? He wasn't undercut, Poland have a particular view and Ireland have another. It is very like an Express headline (Farage demolishes Remainers, TM teaches Corbyn a lesson, JRM makes a devastating point to prove remainers wrong) in its wording.

    Clearly Ireland is under, and will continue to face increasing pressure, over our tax rates

    Interestingly it also parallels a narrative that the Daily Express was leading with earlier today, which interpreted it exactly the same way:

    https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1076974/brexit-news-latest-deal-vote-theresa-may-no-deal-EU-UK


  • #6840
    aindriu80
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,968 ✭✭✭aindriu80


    I guess your right EdgeCase. I think the brits are really egging them on though!


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  • #6841
    Hurrache
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,385 ✭✭✭✭Hurrache


    downcow wrote: »
    I am finding it difficult to engage with this discussion. It seems people from ‘ireland’ can be as offensive as the wish towards Northern Ireland but dare us from the ‘north’ say a word that may be seen as disengeniois or we are reprimanded.
    I know you guys are very frustrated about the direction of things but don’t shoot the messenger.
    Tbh I am not rattled with being told to go to hell above or the other endless derogatory stuff about the north, our elected reps, our government, etc. But I think there needs to be a wee bit of openness to take it if you give it.
    Guess that might be me in trouble again but when we are all gone you will be able to have nice discussions about how awful the brits are without anyone challenging the attitudes

    Still waiting for the reasons you believe Brexit will be good for Northern Ireland and its people.


This discussion has been closed.
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