British burials timescale

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts · 20-01-2019 05:19PM

20 odd years ago, a girl and a lad who had just left my secondary school and started university and an apprenticeship respectively were killed in a car crash. I had vaguely known the girl, as in talked to her a handful of times. Lots of people in the school knew both of them well. It was a rural area where everyone knows everyone type thing. Coming into school the Monday morning following the weekend crash was the most eerie thing I’ve ever experienced. None of the usual chatter, nobody talking except for the odd wail from a student here and there.

People in other countries laud the very personal Irish funeral system. I’ve heard it said and read about it. This girl’s funeral gave me serious reservations about it. It’s fine if it’s somebody elderly, the funeral home visitation is generally a manageable amount of people (though something like 2500-3000 filed through the funeral home at my 90-year-old granny’s visitation on a 29 degree summer day! :eek:)

But this girl’s funeral home bit - I regretted going. I was 14 and went “because I’ve talked to her a few times”. Nope, I was just being nosy. I freely admit that. So I went. And I’d never seen this before and haven’t since but her parents were huddled by her coffin, interacting with nobody. It’s 20 years and I can still see the look of anguish frozen on her father’s face as he tightly clutched a framed photo of her. I immediately felt like the biggest shît ever. There were so many students from the school there almost treating it like a social event. The worst moment of this family’s life. If 2500-3000 came to my granny’s visitation, can you imagine how many people were bearing down on this family? It seemed inhumane. Well, 14 year old me at least learned a lesson. Don’t treat someone else’s worst moment like entertainment. Since then, I’ve chosen very carefully which funerals to attend.

The rural Irish way is a bit of a free for all and if it’s somebody young or a tragedy, it can be so overwhelming for the family. In cases like that, I think the British ways of giving more time for the family to come to terms AND inviting people rather than throwing the doors open to anyone are much better.

murpho999 · 20-01-2019 05:37PM

Sad for me to read this, especially the posts of those who lost loved ones suddenly and had to arrange things quickly, as today is actually my mother's 7 year anniversary.

Her passing was not a major shock, she'd been ill for the previous six months due to an operation to remove a brain tumour and in the end it was a very sad relief for her as the last month she was in a coma with no real chance of recovery.

She died on the Friday but for some reason she was delayed being released by the hospital until Saturday evening and this had a knock on effect of delaying the funeral from Monday till Tuesday.

This give us some time with her alone in the funeral home with nothing to arrange or no people to see and it was me and my Dad just sitting with her in the funeral home and taking time to talk about her and memories and just a bit of space to process what was going on in our heads.
I can really look back at that day and cherish it. Might sound strange to some, to spend time with a dead person but until you experience the loss of a close family member you won't understand it.

I do think we're a little too fast in Ireland. You can die on a Sunday here and be buired and gone forever on a Tuesday which gives grieving family members no preparation whatsoever but I do find the 2-3 weeks it can take in the UK to be far too long. A week should be the maximum imho.

Hoboo · 20-01-2019 05:45PM

Recliner wrote: »

One thing I don't get is when a request is made for a house to be private on the morning of the burial, why some people seem to feel that doesn't apply to them.

Maybe they didn't know. Perhaps they were very close, I'd consider many of my friends as family, I'd hope they'd be allowed into my house. It's not what you want, it's what the deceased would have wanted that's important.

Recliner · 20-01-2019 06:24PM

Hoboo wrote: »

Maybe they didn't know. Perhaps they were very close, I'd consider many of my friends as family, I'd hope they'd be allowed into my house. It's not what you want, it's what the deceased would have wanted that's important.

In fairness it's usually mentioned in the death notices both in print and radio. And it's the family who would put the notice in. I've witnessed it recently enough in my own family where there were so many people at the house on the morning of the burial that the wife of the man who had died and her children barely got a minute alone with him before the coffin was closed. And the house had been requested as private.
She was very upset over that as she had purposely held the wake over 2 evenings as she knew there would have been a lot of people to come. And the house private would have given the family the time they needed.
In another instance when we left the house that morning people had gathered outside to walk behind the hearse to the church but didn't come into the house which I thought was lovely.
And I'm sorry but I'd have to respectfully disagree with you on the point of it not being what the grieving family wants that's important. Of course if specific wishes have been known regarding funeral service, music etc then they should be followed through. But I don't think most people would necessarily think that a family requesting some final private time with their loved one as being an inordinately unreasonable request, especially if there has been ample time for people to pay their respects.
Just my opinion.
Anyway I probably shouldn't have brought it up, it doesn't have anything to do with the OP so it was off topic.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts · 20-01-2019 06:40PM

Hoboo wrote: »

Maybe they didn't know. Perhaps they were very close, I'd consider many of my friends as family, I'd hope they'd be allowed into my house. It's not what you want, it's what the deceased would have wanted that's important.

An uncle of one of my friends died suddenly last year. His widow had people calling to her door the night before the funeral mass all night up to 2am. Seriously. Calling in after the pub, most of them. That is pig-ignorant. And many death notices specify ‘House Private’. I think most specify that. If the notice says ‘House Private’, don’t call to the house. It’s really that simple.

And I disagree that only the deceased should be considered. Many people take what the people left behind would be comfortable with into consideration when writing down their funeral wishes. I certainly did. They are ones left behind to deal with it all. Funerals are as much for the living as the dead.

SEPT 23 1989 · 20-01-2019 07:15PM

While we are on the topic of funerals anyone got any idea how much the carriage and black horses costs house to church maybe a mile distance max

Rubberlegs · 20-01-2019 09:12PM

EdgeCase wrote: »

My granny said she wanted a closed coffin for similar reasons. Although she had lost an awful lot of weight and looked frail so didn't particularly want to be seen like that.

We just put several photos of her when she was in her 20s and 40s and 60s up as she was determined that she wanted to be remembered as she was in her prime - not just as how she was during the year and a bit that she looked very unwell.

That was a non religious funeral - we just read some poetry she liked, talked about the the good times and played a lot of her favourite music - she was a big classical fan and played piano so the were one or two pieces that were just her and had us in floods of tears.

With my mom's, I'd have liked to plan it properly but that's not what happened. I'm not going to beat myself up about it as the circumstances were totally different but, I do think it's a pity it couldn't have taken a bit of time. You can't organise anything when you're in shock.

I did a eulogy and I can't even remember what I said.

I found the priest wanted to rush things too and kept going on about needing to get to a wedding and his assistants kept hassling me about wanting gifts for the altar and photographs of her. I had neither and had no idea what they even meant by gifts.

All in all the whole experience was horrible and I'm still really upset about it months later.

I had flashbacks for about 3 months after

It still feels like it didn't actually happen.

With my Dad my one regret is that no one did a eulogy. Myself and my sibling did readings and grandchildren read prayers of the faithful. The priest actually said he didn't encourage family members to stand up and talk about the deceased as it can be too upsetting for them and be too much pressure. I wish I had now. My Dad wasn't a regular mass goer so the priest didn't know him It felt so odd to tell him bits about him and his life so that he could say a bit about him on the altar. A bit impersonal. Looking back it all feels part of the rush in proceedings.

Edgware · 20-01-2019 09:24PM

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

While we are on the topic of funerals anyone got any idea how much the carriage and black horses costs house to church maybe a mile distance max

Some of the Kinahan or Hutch crew could answer that

TAFKAlawhec · 20-01-2019 09:48PM

Garlinge wrote: »

I think there is a 7 day delay legally in UK. Makes for sense, time for autopsy, check details of death etc. Also funerals in UK are more by invitation so time to contact people. It is less common to put a newspaper notice.

That might be the case in England, but that is definitely not the case in Northern Ireland.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts · 21-01-2019 03:20PM

murpho999 wrote: »

Sad for me to read this, especially the posts of those who lost loved ones suddenly and had to arrange things quickly, as today is actually my mother's 7 year anniversary.

Her passing was not a major shock, she'd been ill for the previous six months due to an operation to remove a brain tumour and in the end it was a very sad relief for her as the last month she was in a coma with no real chance of recovery.

She died on the Friday but for some reason she was delayed being released by the hospital until Saturday evening and this had a knock on effect of delaying the funeral from Monday till Tuesday.

This give us some time with her alone in the funeral home with nothing to arrange or no people to see and it was me and my Dad just sitting with her in the funeral home and taking time to talk about her and memories and just a bit of space to process what was going on in our heads.
I can really look back at that day and cherish it. Might sound strange to some, to spend time with a dead person but until you experience the loss of a close family member you won't understand it.

I do think we're a little too fast in Ireland. You can die on a Sunday here and be buired and gone forever on a Tuesday which gives grieving family members no preparation whatsoever but I do find the 2-3 weeks it can take in the UK to be far too long. A week should be the maximum imho.

That doesn’t sound strange at all. It sounds quite lovely, in fact.

jos28 · 21-01-2019 04:16PM

I have a lot of family in the UK, most of my uncles/aunts have passed on at this stage. My understanding for the delay is that funerals cannot take place until the death cert has been issued. That is not the case in Ireland.
I actually think we 'do' funerals extremely well here. I like the idea of a wake, ceremony and reception. It's a process that helps with the grief.
When my Dad died, my Mam insisted on taking an extra day or two before the funeral. We did the same when she passed away. She died early on Saturday morning and the funeral was the following Wednesday. It gave relatives a chance to fly home and gave us a chance to organise things as she would have wanted. None of it is easy, I'd hate the UK idea of having to go back to work following a loss and then take time off for the funeral at a later stage.

sbsquarepants · 21-01-2019 04:19PM

bobbyss wrote: »

Why do burials of people in Britain take weeks to happen? In Ireland it's about three days?

Brexit.

They'll need a special permit to die in a few weeks, cost a fortune so it will.

Didn't think of that, did they.

Twats:mad:

Ragnar Lothbrok · 21-01-2019 05:06PM

My wife died suddenly and unexpectedly nearly 15 years ago. The three days between her death and burial were a blur and I have little memory of those days still. Fortunately, her family were a great help (all my own family are in England) and there's probably nothing I'd have changed about the whole experience. However, I have often thought that they could have suggested anything and I'd have agreed to it, only to regret it once the initial shock had worn off.

At the other extreme, when my mother died in England a few years ago, there was a gap of at least three weeks between her death and funeral. I asked the undertaker what the reason was for the delay between death and funeral in England. He told me it was for bureaucratic reasons (it might take a week or two to get all the relevant paperwork authorised by the local council) and that it was also just traditional.

It did make it very hard for my dad, as he was stuck in no-man's-land until she was buried.

As most have said here, I think between a week and two weeks max would be more preferable. This gives the people most affected the time to make important decisions, while at the same time not dragging out the waiting for the actual funeral.

AllForIt · 21-01-2019 05:12PM

I don't like the way funerals are done in this country. Way too many turn up, it should be a more private affair. Certainly in the country this is true. Being forced to shake the hands of sometimes hundreds of ppl at a time of loss is just crazy. If you are acquainted with someone who suffered a loss then you can just express you sympathy the next time you see them or send a card perhaps.

Billgirlylegs · 21-01-2019 05:40PM

I experience both sides of this coin.
Dad died "suddenly" in UK, on a Bank Holiday weekend, and was buried a week after he died.
I got more unsettled as time went on and I figured it was because he was helpless / defenceless.
I felt better after he was buried.
A couple of "personalities" died the same day he did, and I read about their funerals weeks later.
I would not have appreciated that.

Mam was buried 4 days after she died. At that there was a delay because people wanted to travel over.
I found the short gap was easier for me.

Hesh's Umpire · 21-01-2019 05:49PM

AllForIt wrote: »

I don't like the way funerals are done in this country. Way too many turn up, it should be a more private affair. Certainly in the country this is true. Being forced to shake the hands of sometimes hundreds of ppl at a time of loss is just crazy. If you are acquainted with someone who suffered a loss then you can just express you sympathy the next time you see them or send a card perhaps.

But surely, that's the call of the bereaved family? If you want a more private funeral when you lose someone, you can do so and make it invitation only as it often is in other countries.
I know of cases where it's happened.
Likewise, others take comfort from the sympathies of large numbers of friends, neighbours and acquaintances.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts · 21-01-2019 06:24PM

Hesh's Umpire wrote: »

But surely, that's the call of the bereaved family? If you want a more private funeral when you lose someone, you can do so and make it invitation only as it often is in other countries.
I know of cases where it's happened.
Likewise, others take comfort from the sympathies of large numbers of friends, neighbours and acquaintances.

Don’t underestimate the pressure people feel to do the “done thing”. As well as that, it can be such a blur of a time that it’s often easier to go with the path of least resistance.

ednwireland · 21-01-2019 06:28PM

the first slot we could get in the council cemetary was two weeks when my father died . crazy really somewhere around a week is probably best.
the muslim part of the cemetary they manage to be buried in 24 hours.
but im guessing that theres more morgues than in ireland so there not the same urgency to get someone buried.

professore · 21-01-2019 06:32PM

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

I think the Irish way is too quick. Especially if it’s a sudden, tragic death of someone young. It’s such a shock and then they are gone and buried quickly.

A middle ground between the two would be perfect.

Speaking as someone who has personal experience of this, I think the Irish system is best. It is utterly exhausting as it is. Lets face it you aren't grieving during this show period anyway, it's for other people. You are in some kind of zombie state. If it was to go on for weeks it would be an even worse nightmare.

21-01-2019 09:09PM

My father died a few years ago and it was all a blur for the next 3/4 days.

I didnt mind the crowds so much, we'va a large family and they all turned up, I really liked the support and greatly appreciated it.

But its different strokes for different folks. I had a young relation die and huge crowds visited the house. I have no idea how the parents coped.

British burials timescale

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