Discovery 2x01 – "Brother" [ SPOILERS WITHIN ]

Sad Professor · 18-01-2019 12:11am #1

I'm putting this up now in case I forget in the morning.

The season two premiere is airing/streaming on CBS in the US at 20:30 EST on Thursday night and will be available on Irish Netflix from 08:00 Irish time on Friday morning.

Remember: This thread will contain spoilers for the episode in question. Spoiler tags will not be used. If you don't want to be spoiled, read no further.

BrookieD · 18-01-2019 11:21am

not a major review by any stretch but for me a good intro into Season 2, Pike is good, Discovery good, LOVE TILLY, liked the parts near the end on Enterprise, door sounds etc, cool nod. Seeing the Turbo life from the external viewpoint was cool, Overall for me it was a solid start and i think more fun and getting closer to Star Trek

Liked the nod to the TOS The Menagerie - could be seed planting there

Sonics2k · 18-01-2019 1:25pm

Just finished watching Episode 1 now.

Straight off the bat, there's certainly a change in tone, which I think is well needed, as well as less lens flairs.

Timeline wise, I still honestly don't know if this is MU or AU. They still use the hand-held communicators, but Spock was able to create a massive holographic monster thing, and Stamets was also able to use some kind of holographic doo-dad in his head.

I believe it's AU, but I could be wrong.

Overall, yeah it's watchable and a bit of fun. Each episode feels like a mini-movie, which while good also kind of takes away from it.

Spear · 18-01-2019 1:37pm

The use of the collapsing/expanding memory metal objects seems jarring and out of place. They make repeated nods to the old series, the communicators, the 3D chess set and Vulcan lyre, even Spocks room number, but the compressible objects seem too advanced and overused. It doesn't change anything in the greater story, it's just a bit annoying.

I'm pleased to see there's a bit more subtlety to the story. It's not the simplistic go to signal and find the bad guy deal. They seem to have been manipulated into finding the Hiawatha wreck and rescuing the survivors.

Also, is everyone really okay with the Chief Reno unlicensed medical practice? Everyone seems fairly blaise about her chopping up dead bodies for her little Dr Frankenstein show.

And was the fortune cookie an easter egg reference to the Cage episode starring Pike?

JeffKenna · 18-01-2019 1:38pm

yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay it's back! Can't wait to get home to watch it this evening!!!

dball · 18-01-2019 5:18pm

Volunteered to take my kid to ballet class this evening.
Wonder what to do for an hour sitting in the car???

ðŸ˜€

flazio · 18-01-2019 5:56pm

Sonics2k wrote: »

Just finished watching Episode 1 now.

Straight off the bat, there's certainly a change in tone, which I think is well needed, as well as less lens flairs.

Timeline wise, I still honestly don't know if this is MU or AU. They still use the hand-held communicators, but Spock was able to create a massive holographic monster thing, and Stamets was also able to use some kind of holographic doo-dad in his head.

I believe it's AU, but I could be wrong.

Overall, yeah it's watchable and a bit of fun. Each episode feels like a mini-movie, which while good also kind of takes away from it.

The canon is from the original universe, (as in the Nero attack on the Kelvin never happened), we are still a few years before either the new movie or the original series happened but because of new TV technology, the look is going to be different from either.

Anyway onto the episode. Great start. Nice to see more of the bridge crew, loved the nod to La Forge's visor in the transport room.

Samuel T. Cogley · 18-01-2019 6:58pm

My only criticisms were way too much Stargate-folding tech. The gravity doodad was just silly. Pike is also the wrong age IMHO.

Apart from that loved it.

_Kaiser_ · 18-01-2019 8:42pm

Watching it now... thoughts as I watch:

- I can't look at Saru the same way anymore since the Short Trek episode giving his background. Just like Burnham's "super-skillz" it's too convenient. That story should have been left untold
- Super Federation sensors too :rolleyes: 30,000LY? Voyager couldn't even do that without piggy-backing on the alien array
- Stupid comedy scene in the turbolift.. hur hur, we can do comedy now. I thought they'd seen sense and cut it for a minute, but nope
- I still don't get the love for Tilly. She's just really awkward and annoying. Not one that would make it through the Academy IMO never mind command training/future Captain
- Pike is very likeable however. Far better than the awful Georgiou but not better than Lorca
- I'm guessing the Doc will be back as more than a hologram
- Burnham back-story. I'm guessing to make her seem more three-dimensional. Still a crap character though
- Bridge crew: "Hey viewers.. we know you never knew our names last season, so here's a handy roll call for you"
- Visually the show looks great (asteroid field scene), but need more than fancy CGI
- More stupid humour with Saru's ganglia and the "oh yea we got this" bit with the Bridge crew
- Super (Mary) Sue to the rescue.. isn't it handy she was a test pilot of these ships just as they need them? And flight skills to make her an instructor at Top Gun
- Oh look.. it's female Scotty (Pegg version, not Doohan)
- Red Angel.. real or hallucination from the pain?
- Super Burnham has time to calculate debris trajectories while recovering in sickbay
- Tilly is even more annoying!
- Why would Pike switch to the old uniform, rather than the Discovery crew adopt the new one? (although arguably Voyager's crew should have updated too once regular contact with Starfleet was established)
- That "try to have fun, make noise, ruffle feathers" line from Pike seems more aimed at the audience than Burnham
- Nice touch with the door sound effect on the Enterprise

Pike was definitely the best thing about that episode, but overall the show is still plagued by many of the same issues as the last season. It's better than the S1 opener and most of that season to be sure, but it still feels like generic sci-fi than Trek

Oh, and post-ep "this season" clip..

still using the spore drive?? Also gives far too much away! FFS

pixelburp · 18-01-2019 10:02pm

I liked it, I mean we knew what the broad arc was going to involve thanks to the trailers so I was mostly keen to see what kind of tweaks were taken.

Pike is the standout but naturally enough due to him being the only real new character. A likeable and suitably Starfleety captain for sure. I still think making Lorca part of the alt universe was a colossal waste of a potentially good character, but can t argue with going back to type.

Tilly remains awesome and the obvious heart of the ensemble, and tbh it was nice to see the rest of the bridge crew get something to do - season 1 kept showing their faces so why not give them some character runway? The script at least acknowledged too how Saru was again losing out. Stamets was barely in it so no comments there.

Burnham remains the stumbling block, but even the rod up her backside has been loosened a little, not totally miserable and beholden to immediate angst. So far, we'll see where the Spock drama leads.

And while premieres tend to look splashier, the FX remain great so far. Can't grumble about action in Star Trek when they at least put some cash into it.

OldMrBrennan83 · 18-01-2019 10:30pm

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Watching it now... thoughts as I watch:

- I can't look at Saru the same way anymore since the Short Trek episode giving his background. Just like Burnham's "super-skillz" it's too convenient. That story should have been left untold
- Super Federation sensors too :rolleyes: 30,000LY? Voyager couldn't even do that without piggy-backing on the alien array
- Stupid comedy scene in the turbolift.. hur hur, we can do comedy now. I thought they'd seen sense and cut it for a minute, but nope
- I still don't get the love for Tilly. She's just really awkward and annoying. Not one that would make it through the Academy IMO never mind command training/future Captain
- Pike is very likeable however. Far better than the awful Georgiou but not better than Lorca
- I'm guessing the Doc will be back as more than a hologram
- Burnham back-story. I'm guessing to make her seem more three-dimensional. Still a crap character though
- Bridge crew: "Hey viewers.. we know you never knew our names last season, so here's a handy roll call for you"
- Visually the show looks great (asteroid field scene), but need more than fancy CGI
- More stupid humour with Saru's ganglia and the "oh yea we got this" bit with the Bridge crew
- Super (Mary) Sue to the rescue.. isn't it handy she was a test pilot of these ships just as they need them? And flight skills to make her an instructor at Top Gun
- Oh look.. it's female Scotty (Pegg version, not Doohan)
- Red Angel.. real or hallucination from the pain?
- Super Burnham has time to calculate debris trajectories while recovering in sickbay
- Tilly is even more annoying!
- Why would Pike switch to the old uniform, rather than the Discovery crew adopt the new one? (although arguably Voyager's crew should have updated too once regular contact with Starfleet was established)
- That "try to have fun, make noise, ruffle feathers" line from Pike seems more aimed at the audience than Burnham
- Nice touch with the door sound effect on the Enterprise

Pike was definitely the best thing about that episode, but overall the show is still plagued by many of the same issues as the last season. It's better than the S1 opener and most of that season to be sure, but it still feels like generic sci-fi than Trek

Oh, and post-ep "this season" clip..
still using the spore drive?? Also gives far too much away! FFS

You really should stop watching at this stage. I wouldn't even go halfway through the first series of a show I hated that much.

_Kaiser_ · 18-01-2019 10:41pm

Patww79 wrote: »

You really should stop watching at this stage. I wouldn't even go halfway through the first series of a show I hated that much.

I don't hate it.. I was curious to see if there was any real improvement after all the coverage in the last few months and while there are some better things, overall its still just a flashy, expensive generic Sci-fi show but very little resemblance to Star Trek in the same way as the Kelvin movies.

I think if they dropped Burnham (or at least the Mary Sue "I'm perfect and can even lecture my new captain about how right I always am"), dialled back on the "men are idiots" nonsense, and stopped trying to hide poor characters and story behind flashy CGI, then maybe it might be a decent show.

OldMrBrennan83 · 18-01-2019 10:47pm

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

I don't hate it.. I was curious to see if there was any real improvement after all the coverage in the last few months and while there are some better things, overall its still just a flashy, expensive generic Sci-fi show but very little resemblance to Star Trek in the same way as the Kelvin movies.

I think if they dropped Burnham (or at least the Mary Sue "I'm perfect and can even lecture my new captain about how right I always am"), dialled back on the "men are idiots" nonsense, and stopped trying to hide poor characters and story behind flashy CGI, then maybe it might be a decent show.

I didn't mean it to sound like I was getting a dig or anything, I agree with some of the points too, but you're sticking it well.

pixelburp · 18-01-2019 10:49pm

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

I don't hate it.. I was curious to see if there was any real improvement after all the coverage in the last few months and while there are some better things, overall its still just a flashy, expensive generic Sci-fi show but very little resemblance to Star Trek in the same way as the Kelvin movies.

I think if they dropped Burnham (or at least the Mary Sue "I'm perfect and can even lecture my new captain about how right I always am"), dialled back on the "men are idiots" nonsense, and stopped trying to hide poor characters and story behind flashy CGI, then maybe it might be a decent show.

Wait. What "men are idiots nonsense"? The script practically fell on itself fawning over Pike, who was such an old timey hero ya coulda called him Flash Gordon; and if you mean the Science officer, he was a waking trope (I know what I'm doin-DEATH), not a narrative polemic. Cmon. Every other male character is nowhere near that, tbh I think you're reaching a tad.

GSPfan · 18-01-2019 10:56pm

I haven’t read any comments yet, I’ll go back over them later tonight, but I’m just over 30 minutes into the episode and they are about to go on an away mission. I’m laughing to myself at the one wearing red. It’ll be so funny if she doesn’t make it back.

CramCycle · 18-01-2019 11:04pm

Funny to see other trek sites applauding this but slating the JJ movies. I enjoyed it, first half was like TNG, second half like the new movies. No relation to TOS other than nods to fans all over the place.

I still really liked it, the only complaint was the enterprise , internally, didn't look much like the enterprise. Should have done DS9 on it and made it identical, fancy new stuff could be in the background.

Sad Professor · 18-01-2019 11:16pm

It was fine. A lot of the scenarios and action sequences are lifted from Star Trek 2009, though, which made everything far too familiar. Most distinctive thing about it is how cinematic it felt. Not just visually (the widescreen aspect ratio) but the tight pacing. This isn't the Star Trek I grew up with, in fact I'm not sure it's Star Trek at all, but I still find it enjoyable.

GSPfan · 18-01-2019 11:39pm

She survived, phew!

I loved it. The only thing I didn’t like was the fact Burnham is again central to everything.

Is it too early to be in absolute love with Ensign Tilly? She is brilliant and the actor herself is so cute. I think she is brilliantly written and cast.

I’m totally on board with every little change they’ve made. It’s very Meta. They know they started off so far off centre that they need to bring it back a bit. I really can’t be bothered trying to maintain the 1960’s style as if we really want Star Trek to survive over the next 50 years then we need to maintain the timeline as it’s the best part of the franchise, but accept that it’s just a tv show and restricting it to 1960’s perception of technology in the future is not going to work.

pixelburp · 18-01-2019 11:40pm

It's bizarre that not one, not two, but three Treks in recent years have used the same set piece - being fired through space at a target. Bad enough the 2009 reboot and its own sequel did it, but felt a bit lazy that this episodes signature action set piece was the same damn stunt. That said, at least said action wasn't based off a problem of conflict.

As already mentioned, the episode looked cinematic (directed by the otherwise maligned Alex Kurtzman too), it's just a shame the biggest set piece was a lazy rehash, sure what's more trek than that

Regarding action in general, I dunno, I think this idea that Trek shouldn't / can't have explosive set pieces feels like selective memory. TNG didn't have much it's true, but that was the exception to the rule IMO, and the only thing that prevented the other shows was often budget, or stunt coordinators obsessed with 2 handed punches

TV shows rival films these days for production costs, and given how slick it looks I welcome Trek trying to better itself.

I dunno maybe as a Doctor Who fan I've already gone through the "that's not my show" phase when it came back in 2005 as a slick, modern product with more action and budget

TheValeyard · 18-01-2019 11:59pm

I really enjoyed it.

Enjoyed seeing more of the internal workings of Discovery. Enterprise looking sexy.

Plot was fine. Setting it up for the season.

AtomicHorror · 19-01-2019 12:35am

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Pike was definitely the best thing about that episode, but overall the show is still plagued by many of the same issues as the last season. It's better than the S1 opener and most of that season to be sure, but it still feels like generic sci-fi than Trek

I think this means the show's just not for you? How many seasons will it take for you to conclude that rather than continue to torture yourself and us?

Sad Professor wrote: »

It was fine. A lot of the scenarios and action sequences are lifted from Star Trek 2009, though, which made everything far too familiar.

Which ones??

GSPfan · 19-01-2019 12:44am

@ pixelburp

As a Doctor Who fan do you not realise that if it didn’t modernise it would not survive, therefore the reboot of the series actually prolonged your show? I can understand anyone who chooses their show/film to just stay dead and drift off into distant memory but if you want your show to endure time it has to utilise modern day interpretations of the future.

ED E · 19-01-2019 12:46am

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

I don't hate it.. I was curious to see if there was any real improvement after all the coverage in the last few months and while there are some better things, overall its still just a flashy, expensive generic Sci-fi show but very little resemblance to Star Trek in the same way as the Kelvin movies.

We need to get over this. Its trek in name only. If you try to mate it with TOS/TNG etc you'll just end up like a Silmarillion reader watching a LOTR movie.

Tilly was great. CG allows them to do whatever they want now which is nice, before you might have Writer: "Lets do x" Producer: "Oooh that'll cost a fortune" now most things are within reach.

Elevator scene, two captains get in? You back the hell off to the corner of the turbolift. Come on like.

Im sure the Frankenstein bit will raise its head again next time. Was fully expecting her bot creations to save Michael when she impaled herself.

Gbear · 19-01-2019 12:54am

Was Spock's voice done by Zachary Quinto? It sounded similar.

Good start. I know that Trek has never shied too far away from space magic, but I can't say I'm thrilled with the idea that this galactic scale phenomenon is revealed to Spock through dream precognition.

Other than that slight concern, building on some similarly wibbly bits from last season, it was polished, good quality adventure times.

CramCycle · 19-01-2019 1:41am

GSPfan wrote: »

Is it too early to be in absolute love with Ensign Tilly? She is brilliant and the actor herself is so cute. I think she is brilliantly written and cast.

I think she was. This episode obviously had some outside influence over the writers where they abandoned any character development and turned her into a caricature of herself from early last season.

_Kaiser_ · 19-01-2019 1:42am

AtomicHorror wrote: »

I think this means the show's just not for you? How many seasons will it take for you to conclude that rather than continue to torture yourself and us?

Feel free to add me to your ignore list. No bother to me.

If these threads are just to gush over the episodes that's a different matter, but last I checked it was for people's opinions.

It's a visually very impressive show, but I have long since stopped being impressed solely by shiny CGI wizardry.

The main character is deeply unlikeable and a poor actress - not helped by the Rey-like "perfect in every way" writing, Tilly is nothing more than awkward and misplaced comedy relief (now supplemented by the same humour that many here slated The Orville for), and the bridge crew are largely anonymous at this point as they were last season.

But... Pike is a welcome and much needed addition, the lighter tone is an improvement, and while I'm not sold on the season arc mission, maybe it'll get better once it beds in (supposedly lots of reshoots again with the production staff changes so it's bound to be a bit uneven).

I don't like the JJ movies, what they did to long established characters, the aesthetic and generic shoot em up action comedy they became. Discovery carried most of the same flaws into season 1. It remains to be seen whether or not the above changes will carry forward into the rest of season 2.

_Kaiser_ · 19-01-2019 1:46am

ED E wrote: »

We need to get over this. Its trek in name only. If you try to mate it with TOS/TNG etc you'll just end up like a Silmarillion reader watching a LOTR movie.

Tilly was great. CG allows them to do whatever they want now which is nice, before you might have Writer: "Lets do x" Producer: "Oooh that'll cost a fortune" now most things are within reach.

But if we accept that it's really just Trek in name only then they should have just called it something else and in a different universe.

Calling it Star Trek, insisting that it fits within what was previously established, and rewriting/changing well known characters, plots or events is just going to annoy anyone who does like those previous shows.

tromtipp · 19-01-2019 8:35am

I did my best to enjoy the first season (and it had its moments) but there was too much conflict and CGI bells and whistles for me. It needed more than Vulcans and Klingons. This season is already demonstrating an effort to drag things back. Captain Pike's style is so much more Starfleet, and things he does - getting the bridge crew's names, setting up a ready room - will help bring us to a place where it feels more like Roddenberry's original vision. So all good imo.

I still have reservations about all the special effects - I can see why this ran over budget - they feel more influenced by ST movies than by ST TV - and TV was always where the things I love Trek for happened -character development and interaction and the slow establishment of relationships and atmosphere. I'm now feeling more optimistic about Discovery achieving that than I was during the first season.

I love Tilly and have done from the start. Intersting that the spores are still around. Of course she's right and we can't lose Stamets.

I liked the way the big action sequence and the rescue of Pike was all female (afraid I did enjoy the permanent silencing of the smug knowall, yes I know death is terrible, but hey). I'm pleased to have a little more humour even if it was clumsily done (ugh that sneeze). If Linus and Reno are joining the crew they'll certainly bring a change in mood - I hope it manages to be more Quark than Neelix.

Questions - what has traumatised little Spock - the bullying at school, the death of his Seylaht, someting else? What happened to Burnham's parents - what did Sarek call it, unthinkable - didn't sound like death anyway. What did the second half of the fortune cookie message refer to - not all losses are permanent - Culber? Hope so.

Overall feeling - YAY Star Trek is back.

TheValeyard · 19-01-2019 9:48am

The guy who died should have been wearing a Redshirt.....just saying...

pixelburp · 19-01-2019 10:11am

GSPfan wrote: »

@ pixelburp

As a Doctor Who fan do you not realise that if it didn’t modernise it would not survive, therefore the reboot of the series actually prolonged your show? I can understand anyone who chooses their show/film to just stay dead and drift off into distant memory but if you want your show to endure time it has to utilise modern day interpretations of the future.

Think you misread what I said? But yes, when Who came back, some conversations were almost 100% like the ones here, full of despair and angst about how the show wasn't like it was, be it tone, character ( even the length of rhe episodes and better FX was held against it, bizzarely). For some, it just "wasn't Doctor Who".

In time many concluded that while the superficial might have changed (with Trek, see explosions, more action set pieces etc), the heart of the show was still there (exploration, space and the final frontier is awesome , Ensign Tilly basically being the walking embodiment of the Federation).

And in another 20 years, if Trek is still around it'll have changed again to match TV / the zeitgeist and we'll cry again that they've switched up the norm once more.

Blazer · 19-01-2019 12:24pm

Tilly is a pain in the hole. No ensign would act like that fresh out of the academy.
Apart from her I do like it but its basically switch my brain off and go with the flow.
But yeah lets hope Tilly dies soon.

_Kaiser_ · 19-01-2019 12:25pm

pixelburp wrote: »

Wait. What "men are idiots nonsense"? The script practically fell on itself fawning over Pike, who was such an old timey hero ya coulda called him Flash Gordon; and if you mean the Science officer, he was a waking trope (I know what I'm doin-DEATH), not a narrative polemic. Cmon. Every other male character is nowhere near that, tbh I think you're reaching a tad.

Missed this one last night..

Pike as the new main/secondary (we'll see) character was obviously going to get a lot of focus.. But that didn't stop the writers having Burnham dress him down publicly twice in the episode (assuming that the comm lines in the pod were open to Discovery as I think they were), the same thing with the disposable blue-shirt who of course was an ass, and the "oh yea we got this" girl power rescue. Even Saru is reduced to just standing around for lame comic relief ("what did you expect?") during the sequence.

Women can certainly be strong independent characters on TV shows and that's no bad thing.. But this in your face feminism and Mary Sue character (Star Wars suffers the same issues nowadays and apparently Dr Who's- seeing as it's been mentioned here - latest season is gone the same way) was never what Trek was about

_Kaiser_ · 19-01-2019 12:28pm

Blazer wrote: »

Tilly is a pain in the hole. No ensign would act like that fresh out of the academy.
Apart from her I do like it but its basically switch my brain off and go with the flow.
But yeah lets hope Tilly dies soon.

I genuinely don't get the love for the character. She's obviously intended to be the relatable one for the audience, but all she is is irritating and out of place. She ruins the flow of every scene she's in.

It's actually an insult to the actress as well as she showed she's capable of a lot more during the Mirror Universe alternate Tilly scenes last season.

Fenster · 19-01-2019 12:37pm

This episode got my eyebrow raised, and I'm the biggest Discovery supporter out there (looking at the model of the ship on my shelf as I type). Yeah, an eyebrow. Brother came off as two episodes squeezed into one. The writing team went through a checklist of things to cover:

Introduce characters new.
Re-introduce us to characters old and show us their growth since last season. Tilly is now an ensign, Stamets wants to leave, etc.
Set up plot hooks for the season: the Red Blobs of Doom, Spock as a man of broody broodness; kill off Pike's science officer and then conveniently introduce us to someone (Jet Reno) with enough character to fill the role, and so on!
Expanded budget for new Discovery SFX (where do they fit all that stuff inside the hull)?

Blah. It was a fun ride in an episode packed with spectacle, but I never felt any tension because of the railroaded story.

I do like the new characters of Pike and Reno and Number One. Discovery's writers and producers have shown that they aren't afraid to kill off, shuffle around or just allow characters to grow, which makes me interested in where things go this season.

Fenster · 19-01-2019 12:38pm

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

I genuinely don't get the love for the character.

There is no captain in my heart but black-hearted Captain Killy.

GSPfan · 19-01-2019 1:44pm

Those of you hating on Tilly should be ashamed of yourself. She’s incredibly likeable.

_Kaiser_ · 19-01-2019 2:54pm

GSPfan wrote: »

Those of you hating on Tilly should be ashamed of yourself. She’s incredibly likeable.

I suppose if awkward, inappropriate, overly emotional and generally immature is your thing then sure. I'm not a fan of the "oh my god, like totally" type myself

The whole sequence with verifying Pike's ID was ridiculous. No way would a freshly promoted ensign (I missed this in the episode actually but saw it mentioned above) behave like that with her new Captain.

You could chalk it up to nervousness, but like so much else with Discovery and the Kelvin movies, it's been ramped up to be annoyingly loud and in your face.

OldMrBrennan83 · 19-01-2019 2:57pm

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

I suppose if awkward, inappropriate, overly emotional and generally immature is your thing then sure. I'm not a fan of the "oh my god, like totally" type myself

The whole sequence with verifying Pike's ID was ridiculous. No way would a freshly promoted ensign (I missed this in the episode actually but saw it mentioned above) behave like that with her new Captain.

You could chalk it up to nervousness, but like so much else with Discovery and the Kelvin movies, it's been ramped up to be annoyingly loud and in your face.

Have to agree with that. I know people can't be like machines but her character is ridiculous.

Slydice · 19-01-2019 3:34pm

That was so good!! Really needed a bit of new Star Trek

Damn the spike going up through her leg and the scream!! :eek:

AtomicHorror · 19-01-2019 5:09pm

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Feel free to add me to your ignore list. No bother to me.

If these threads are just to gush over the episodes that's a different matter, but last I checked it was for people's opinions.

It's a visually very impressive show, but I have long since stopped being impressed solely by shiny CGI wizardry.

The main character is deeply unlikeable and a poor actress - not helped by the Rey-like "perfect in every way" writing, Tilly is nothing more than awkward and misplaced comedy relief (now supplemented by the same humour that many here slated The Orville for), and the bridge crew are largely anonymous at this point as they were last season.

But... Pike is a welcome and much needed addition, the lighter tone is an improvement, and while I'm not sold on the season arc mission, maybe it'll get better once it beds in (supposedly lots of reshoots again with the production staff changes so it's bound to be a bit uneven).

I don't like the JJ movies, what they did to long established characters, the aesthetic and generic shoot em up action comedy they became. Discovery carried most of the same flaws into season 1. It remains to be seen whether or not the above changes will carry forward into the rest of season 2.

Burnham seems to mostly annoy people for her character flaws. Her stubbornness and impulsiveness, the mutiny, the war she started (or didn't). But for you, it's her "super" skills, her strength... all neatly summed up by that neat pejorative "Mary-Sue". That used to be all about an author's needy wish fulfilment but these days nobody ever seems to use the term except as a sleight against "strong women". Hell, you use "Rey-like" and "Mary-Sue" interchangeably, can't resist dragging in the 13th Doctor and throw in a little sneer at "female Scotty" to boot.

Yet you consider yourself an arbiter of what constitutes "real" Star Trek. To me, it looks like you managed to miss every significant message the show has tried to communicate in the last five decades.

19-01-2019 7:18pm

I thought it was brilliant!
I love tilly.
It's true it feels like movie-trek rather than series-trek but it's cool too

burnham seems a bit serious and emphatic all the time but sure maybe i would too if i grew up on vulcan with spock beside me disliking me the whole time.

Pike was cool. totally flash gordon like someone else said

i like him.
I love saru's actor - the way he walks with the arms trailing behind him, he's fab

TheIrishGrover · 19-01-2019 9:40pm

I really enjoyed that episode. I didn't think it was saying men are idiots but actually gave the helm and other woman something to do. The production values were simply off the hook. I mean it was hard to remember that this was a TV show when they were descending to the other ship. That would have been a great scene in a summer blockbuster and would have been all over the trailer just a couple of years ago, they would have been that proud of it.

Liked

The intro.
Pike. Liked the portrayal and the actor himself. Very much in the Kirk style but that was good and fun.
Liked his roundtable of the bridge crew. Getting them to introduce themselves. Very clever way of bringing people up to speed.
Liked his intro of himself with his profile. Again, cocky but fun.
Liked the flashback scenes.
Sarek as usual.
LOVED Tig Notaro (As the engineer). I knew nothing about her except that people were losing their minds (in a positive way) when it was announced that she was going to be on it. Now I can see why. Thought she was fantastic.
"I'm a bad patient" "That's for sure"
They got the hang of swearing. It no longer comes across as forced.
The descent to the other ship. Brilliant.
As I said before, the production values are just INSANE. It looks amazing.
Good to see the doc back in some form.
Don't know if Stamets is leaving or not (I've been staying away from spoilers) but if he is at least his reasoning is sound and realistic.
Any scene with Tilley and Stamets.

Didn't like/Meh

The science officer was SO flagged to die arrogantly.
While I liked the flashback I hope they don't overuse it.
I like Tilley (Although I still firmly believe they are going to kill her off as a "surprise" gut-punch). But I thought they overdid it with her with the palm scanner: I get it, Pike is a living legend - Captain of the flagship but was a bit OTT.

So, yeah, I REALLY enjoyed that episode. One thing though: Did the navigator (Can't remember her name) always have that blue eye (Assuming it's an implant) after the pilot episode. Never noticed it before the extreme closeup.

opus · 19-01-2019 10:25pm

Murray TheDemonic TalkingSkull wrote: »

The guy who died should have been wearing a Redshirt.....just saying...

For sure

I had to go back & rewatch that part afterwards just to make sure he wasn't!

Evade · 19-01-2019 10:30pm

tromtipp wrote: »

What happened to Burnham's parents

Klingons killed them in an attack on the colony they lived on.

The good.

The new uniforms are nice, I wish they were sticking around.
Pike.
The red shirt suit red herring.
It's very pretty.
The transporter chief's more primitive looking visor.

The Bad

Tilly. Almost everything about Tilly.
Saru not knowing how to shake hands in what always seems to be a majority human organisation. It's reminiscent of the worst of early TNG Data. And on the same note Saru3PO.
The weird internal architecture shot when they were in the turbolift.

The Dumb

1,000 century old human story.
Red bursts appearing simultaneously from whose perspective?
Alien sneeze.
Casslilian opera singer story.
Sensors don't work at warp anymore?
Measuring distance in feet.
Wizard Starfleet engineer that can do complex surgery by reading a few books doesn't know pad to pad transporting is safer just so Burnham seems smart. It doesn't work if you have to make other allegedly smart characters seem dumb.
Weird unfolding technology and the over elaborate shot to board the pods.

It's hard to tell from one episode if it'll be better than season one but it could be.

Spear · 19-01-2019 11:29pm

TheIrishGrover wrote: »

So, yeah, I REALLY enjoyed that episode. One thing though: Did the navigator (Can't remember her name) always have that blue eye (Assuming it's an implant) after the pilot episode. Never noticed it before the extreme closeup.

She didn't start out with it, and only received it, and the temple implant after the loss of the Shenzhou. I'd guess it was due to injuries received at the battle of the binary stars, but they've never explored it. But then for that matter, they never did anything with the other bridge crew members.

flazio · 20-01-2019 2:01am

Spear wrote: »

She didn't start out with it, and only received it, and the temple implant after the loss of the Shenzhou. I'd guess it was due to injuries received at the battle of the binary stars, but they've never explored it. But then for that matter, they never did anything with the other bridge crew members.

Lt. Keyla Detmer, helm control. A character I thought was massively under used in Season 1. She served on the Shenzhou with Burnham and Saru so should have been equally peeved that Michael was brought on board the Discovery, yet there never was so much as a word between them throughout the series.

TheIrishGrover · 20-01-2019 11:26am

Spear wrote: »

She didn't start out with it, and only received it, and the temple implant after the loss of the Shenzhou. I'd guess it was due to injuries received at the battle of the binary stars, but they've never explored it. But then for that matter, they never did anything with the other bridge crew members.

Yeah, that's what I meant. Just never noticed the eye thing before.

As for someone mentioning measurement in feet, yeahthat's something that gets me too. Obviously its because the show is American but still. I mean, I'm of probably the last Irish generation to grow up using Imperial and even I have switched to Metric (Because I work with a lot of Europeans). So it is jarring to hear them mention feet and miles in the "future". lol

Johnny Storm · 20-01-2019 11:31am

Add to the "dumb" list:

- Ship comes out of warp into the middle of an asteroid ****-storm. Did some one forget to use the sensors?

- The captain and other senior officers are shot out a rail-gun and are then surprised to find themselves in the middle of said asteroid storm

Add Good point: Tilly not quite as annoying as before

In gereral my expectations for Trek are so high, that its hard for me tosort out what I really think of Discovery. I think based on this episode Season 2 has a lot more potential than season 1. I just hope they avoid dumbing down too much...

Franz Von Peppercorn · 20-01-2019 11:56am

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

But if we accept that it's really just Trek in name only then they should have just called it something else and in a different universe.

Calling it Star Trek, insisting that it fits within what was previously established, and rewriting/changing well known characters, plots or events is just going to annoy anyone who does like those previous shows.

It’s no more Trek in name only than the movies were Trek in name only compared to the TOS. They looked completely different.

pixelburp · 20-01-2019 12:10pm

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Missed this one last night..

Pike as the new main/secondary (we'll see) character was obviously going to get a lot of focus.. But that didn't stop the writers having Burnham dress him down publicly twice in the episode (assuming that the comm lines in the pod were open to Discovery as I think they were), the same thing with the disposable blue-shirt who of course was an ass, and the "oh yea we got this" girl power rescue. Even Saru is reduced to just standing around for lame comic relief ("what did you expect?") during the sequence.

Women can certainly be strong independent characters on TV shows and that's no bad thing.. But this in your face feminism and Mary Sue character (Star Wars suffers the same issues nowadays and apparently Dr Who's- seeing as it's been mentioned here - latest season is gone the same way) was never what Trek was about

This is hitting agree-to-disagree, but TBH this reads like a conclusion searching for proof.

I don't think even those of us who enjoy the series would disagree that Burhnam is a poor protagonist, but IMO you're just reading way too much to find some hidden agenda, in what otherwise amounted to fleshing out thin characters from season 1; it was just nice to see the helm given something to do, and the joking around felt meta more than anything, the women suddenly feeling a bit pressurised to deliver.

Not every positive action by a female character is feminist; not every negative male character is some misandrist polemic. Sometimes a jerk is just a jerk.

Goodshape · 20-01-2019 12:38pm

Loved all the character stuff, the more cinematic style, and there's some plot hooks there that I won't mind seeing played out. I thought it was absolutely brilliant for the first 20 minutes or so.

Really let down though by the apparent magic of the technology at their disposal, particularly in the action set-pieces. I think there was a bit of this last season too but really seemed ramped up here. Never any tension, you know there'll be some other button that'll spin and twirl and zip and woosh some solution out of nowhere, just in time.

And everyone seems to be having too much fun while, for example, hurtling through an asteroid field in some ridiculous looking spinny-bubble-pod.

And god I hate that magic transformer metal nonsense. I'd like to see some head-canon on how that all works.

So, I liked it. Almost loved it, just let sharply down by some silly lazy action-sci-fi tropes.

Also – I like Tilly, but thought she was laying it on a bit thick here to be honest.

Looking forward to more

Discovery 2x01 – "Brother" [** SPOILERS WITHIN **]

Comments

Discovery 2x01 – "Brother" [ SPOILERS WITHIN ]