Discovery 2x01 – "Brother" [ SPOILERS WITHIN ]

Sad Professor · 18-01-2019 12:11am #1

I'm putting this up now in case I forget in the morning.

The season two premiere is airing/streaming on CBS in the US at 20:30 EST on Thursday night and will be available on Irish Netflix from 08:00 Irish time on Friday morning.

Remember: This thread will contain spoilers for the episode in question. Spoiler tags will not be used. If you don't want to be spoiled, read no further.

BrookieD · 18-01-2019 11:21am

not a major review by any stretch but for me a good intro into Season 2, Pike is good, Discovery good, LOVE TILLY, liked the parts near the end on Enterprise, door sounds etc, cool nod. Seeing the Turbo life from the external viewpoint was cool, Overall for me it was a solid start and i think more fun and getting closer to Star Trek

Liked the nod to the TOS The Menagerie - could be seed planting there

Sonics2k · 18-01-2019 1:25pm

Just finished watching Episode 1 now.

Straight off the bat, there's certainly a change in tone, which I think is well needed, as well as less lens flairs.

Timeline wise, I still honestly don't know if this is MU or AU. They still use the hand-held communicators, but Spock was able to create a massive holographic monster thing, and Stamets was also able to use some kind of holographic doo-dad in his head.

I believe it's AU, but I could be wrong.

Overall, yeah it's watchable and a bit of fun. Each episode feels like a mini-movie, which while good also kind of takes away from it.

Spear · 18-01-2019 1:37pm

The use of the collapsing/expanding memory metal objects seems jarring and out of place. They make repeated nods to the old series, the communicators, the 3D chess set and Vulcan lyre, even Spocks room number, but the compressible objects seem too advanced and overused. It doesn't change anything in the greater story, it's just a bit annoying.

I'm pleased to see there's a bit more subtlety to the story. It's not the simplistic go to signal and find the bad guy deal. They seem to have been manipulated into finding the Hiawatha wreck and rescuing the survivors.

Also, is everyone really okay with the Chief Reno unlicensed medical practice? Everyone seems fairly blaise about her chopping up dead bodies for her little Dr Frankenstein show.

And was the fortune cookie an easter egg reference to the Cage episode starring Pike?

JeffKenna · 18-01-2019 1:38pm

yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay it's back! Can't wait to get home to watch it this evening!!!

dball · 18-01-2019 5:18pm

Volunteered to take my kid to ballet class this evening.
Wonder what to do for an hour sitting in the car???

ðŸ˜€

flazio · 18-01-2019 5:56pm

Sonics2k wrote: »

Just finished watching Episode 1 now.

Straight off the bat, there's certainly a change in tone, which I think is well needed, as well as less lens flairs.

Timeline wise, I still honestly don't know if this is MU or AU. They still use the hand-held communicators, but Spock was able to create a massive holographic monster thing, and Stamets was also able to use some kind of holographic doo-dad in his head.

I believe it's AU, but I could be wrong.

Overall, yeah it's watchable and a bit of fun. Each episode feels like a mini-movie, which while good also kind of takes away from it.

The canon is from the original universe, (as in the Nero attack on the Kelvin never happened), we are still a few years before either the new movie or the original series happened but because of new TV technology, the look is going to be different from either.

Anyway onto the episode. Great start. Nice to see more of the bridge crew, loved the nod to La Forge's visor in the transport room.

Samuel T. Cogley · 18-01-2019 6:58pm

My only criticisms were way too much Stargate-folding tech. The gravity doodad was just silly. Pike is also the wrong age IMHO.

Apart from that loved it.

_Kaiser_ · 18-01-2019 8:42pm

Watching it now... thoughts as I watch:

- I can't look at Saru the same way anymore since the Short Trek episode giving his background. Just like Burnham's "super-skillz" it's too convenient. That story should have been left untold
- Super Federation sensors too :rolleyes: 30,000LY? Voyager couldn't even do that without piggy-backing on the alien array
- Stupid comedy scene in the turbolift.. hur hur, we can do comedy now. I thought they'd seen sense and cut it for a minute, but nope
- I still don't get the love for Tilly. She's just really awkward and annoying. Not one that would make it through the Academy IMO never mind command training/future Captain
- Pike is very likeable however. Far better than the awful Georgiou but not better than Lorca
- I'm guessing the Doc will be back as more than a hologram
- Burnham back-story. I'm guessing to make her seem more three-dimensional. Still a crap character though
- Bridge crew: "Hey viewers.. we know you never knew our names last season, so here's a handy roll call for you"
- Visually the show looks great (asteroid field scene), but need more than fancy CGI
- More stupid humour with Saru's ganglia and the "oh yea we got this" bit with the Bridge crew
- Super (Mary) Sue to the rescue.. isn't it handy she was a test pilot of these ships just as they need them? And flight skills to make her an instructor at Top Gun
- Oh look.. it's female Scotty (Pegg version, not Doohan)
- Red Angel.. real or hallucination from the pain?
- Super Burnham has time to calculate debris trajectories while recovering in sickbay
- Tilly is even more annoying!
- Why would Pike switch to the old uniform, rather than the Discovery crew adopt the new one? (although arguably Voyager's crew should have updated too once regular contact with Starfleet was established)
- That "try to have fun, make noise, ruffle feathers" line from Pike seems more aimed at the audience than Burnham
- Nice touch with the door sound effect on the Enterprise

Pike was definitely the best thing about that episode, but overall the show is still plagued by many of the same issues as the last season. It's better than the S1 opener and most of that season to be sure, but it still feels like generic sci-fi than Trek

Oh, and post-ep "this season" clip..

still using the spore drive?? Also gives far too much away! FFS

pixelburp · 18-01-2019 10:02pm

I liked it, I mean we knew what the broad arc was going to involve thanks to the trailers so I was mostly keen to see what kind of tweaks were taken.

Pike is the standout but naturally enough due to him being the only real new character. A likeable and suitably Starfleety captain for sure. I still think making Lorca part of the alt universe was a colossal waste of a potentially good character, but can t argue with going back to type.

Tilly remains awesome and the obvious heart of the ensemble, and tbh it was nice to see the rest of the bridge crew get something to do - season 1 kept showing their faces so why not give them some character runway? The script at least acknowledged too how Saru was again losing out. Stamets was barely in it so no comments there.

Burnham remains the stumbling block, but even the rod up her backside has been loosened a little, not totally miserable and beholden to immediate angst. So far, we'll see where the Spock drama leads.

And while premieres tend to look splashier, the FX remain great so far. Can't grumble about action in Star Trek when they at least put some cash into it.

OldMrBrennan83 · 18-01-2019 10:30pm

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Watching it now... thoughts as I watch:

- I can't look at Saru the same way anymore since the Short Trek episode giving his background. Just like Burnham's "super-skillz" it's too convenient. That story should have been left untold
- Super Federation sensors too :rolleyes: 30,000LY? Voyager couldn't even do that without piggy-backing on the alien array
- Stupid comedy scene in the turbolift.. hur hur, we can do comedy now. I thought they'd seen sense and cut it for a minute, but nope
- I still don't get the love for Tilly. She's just really awkward and annoying. Not one that would make it through the Academy IMO never mind command training/future Captain
- Pike is very likeable however. Far better than the awful Georgiou but not better than Lorca
- I'm guessing the Doc will be back as more than a hologram
- Burnham back-story. I'm guessing to make her seem more three-dimensional. Still a crap character though
- Bridge crew: "Hey viewers.. we know you never knew our names last season, so here's a handy roll call for you"
- Visually the show looks great (asteroid field scene), but need more than fancy CGI
- More stupid humour with Saru's ganglia and the "oh yea we got this" bit with the Bridge crew
- Super (Mary) Sue to the rescue.. isn't it handy she was a test pilot of these ships just as they need them? And flight skills to make her an instructor at Top Gun
- Oh look.. it's female Scotty (Pegg version, not Doohan)
- Red Angel.. real or hallucination from the pain?
- Super Burnham has time to calculate debris trajectories while recovering in sickbay
- Tilly is even more annoying!
- Why would Pike switch to the old uniform, rather than the Discovery crew adopt the new one? (although arguably Voyager's crew should have updated too once regular contact with Starfleet was established)
- That "try to have fun, make noise, ruffle feathers" line from Pike seems more aimed at the audience than Burnham
- Nice touch with the door sound effect on the Enterprise

Pike was definitely the best thing about that episode, but overall the show is still plagued by many of the same issues as the last season. It's better than the S1 opener and most of that season to be sure, but it still feels like generic sci-fi than Trek

Oh, and post-ep "this season" clip..
still using the spore drive?? Also gives far too much away! FFS

You really should stop watching at this stage. I wouldn't even go halfway through the first series of a show I hated that much.

_Kaiser_ · 18-01-2019 10:41pm

Patww79 wrote: »

You really should stop watching at this stage. I wouldn't even go halfway through the first series of a show I hated that much.

I don't hate it.. I was curious to see if there was any real improvement after all the coverage in the last few months and while there are some better things, overall its still just a flashy, expensive generic Sci-fi show but very little resemblance to Star Trek in the same way as the Kelvin movies.

I think if they dropped Burnham (or at least the Mary Sue "I'm perfect and can even lecture my new captain about how right I always am"), dialled back on the "men are idiots" nonsense, and stopped trying to hide poor characters and story behind flashy CGI, then maybe it might be a decent show.

OldMrBrennan83 · 18-01-2019 10:47pm

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

I don't hate it.. I was curious to see if there was any real improvement after all the coverage in the last few months and while there are some better things, overall its still just a flashy, expensive generic Sci-fi show but very little resemblance to Star Trek in the same way as the Kelvin movies.

I think if they dropped Burnham (or at least the Mary Sue "I'm perfect and can even lecture my new captain about how right I always am"), dialled back on the "men are idiots" nonsense, and stopped trying to hide poor characters and story behind flashy CGI, then maybe it might be a decent show.

I didn't mean it to sound like I was getting a dig or anything, I agree with some of the points too, but you're sticking it well.

pixelburp · 18-01-2019 10:49pm

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

I don't hate it.. I was curious to see if there was any real improvement after all the coverage in the last few months and while there are some better things, overall its still just a flashy, expensive generic Sci-fi show but very little resemblance to Star Trek in the same way as the Kelvin movies.

I think if they dropped Burnham (or at least the Mary Sue "I'm perfect and can even lecture my new captain about how right I always am"), dialled back on the "men are idiots" nonsense, and stopped trying to hide poor characters and story behind flashy CGI, then maybe it might be a decent show.

Wait. What "men are idiots nonsense"? The script practically fell on itself fawning over Pike, who was such an old timey hero ya coulda called him Flash Gordon; and if you mean the Science officer, he was a waking trope (I know what I'm doin-DEATH), not a narrative polemic. Cmon. Every other male character is nowhere near that, tbh I think you're reaching a tad.

GSPfan · 18-01-2019 10:56pm

I haven’t read any comments yet, I’ll go back over them later tonight, but I’m just over 30 minutes into the episode and they are about to go on an away mission. I’m laughing to myself at the one wearing red. It’ll be so funny if she doesn’t make it back.

CramCycle · 18-01-2019 11:04pm

Funny to see other trek sites applauding this but slating the JJ movies. I enjoyed it, first half was like TNG, second half like the new movies. No relation to TOS other than nods to fans all over the place.

I still really liked it, the only complaint was the enterprise , internally, didn't look much like the enterprise. Should have done DS9 on it and made it identical, fancy new stuff could be in the background.

Sad Professor · 18-01-2019 11:16pm

It was fine. A lot of the scenarios and action sequences are lifted from Star Trek 2009, though, which made everything far too familiar. Most distinctive thing about it is how cinematic it felt. Not just visually (the widescreen aspect ratio) but the tight pacing. This isn't the Star Trek I grew up with, in fact I'm not sure it's Star Trek at all, but I still find it enjoyable.

GSPfan · 18-01-2019 11:39pm

She survived, phew!

I loved it. The only thing I didn’t like was the fact Burnham is again central to everything.

Is it too early to be in absolute love with Ensign Tilly? She is brilliant and the actor herself is so cute. I think she is brilliantly written and cast.

I’m totally on board with every little change they’ve made. It’s very Meta. They know they started off so far off centre that they need to bring it back a bit. I really can’t be bothered trying to maintain the 1960’s style as if we really want Star Trek to survive over the next 50 years then we need to maintain the timeline as it’s the best part of the franchise, but accept that it’s just a tv show and restricting it to 1960’s perception of technology in the future is not going to work.

pixelburp · 18-01-2019 11:40pm

It's bizarre that not one, not two, but three Treks in recent years have used the same set piece - being fired through space at a target. Bad enough the 2009 reboot and its own sequel did it, but felt a bit lazy that this episodes signature action set piece was the same damn stunt. That said, at least said action wasn't based off a problem of conflict.

As already mentioned, the episode looked cinematic (directed by the otherwise maligned Alex Kurtzman too), it's just a shame the biggest set piece was a lazy rehash, sure what's more trek than that

Regarding action in general, I dunno, I think this idea that Trek shouldn't / can't have explosive set pieces feels like selective memory. TNG didn't have much it's true, but that was the exception to the rule IMO, and the only thing that prevented the other shows was often budget, or stunt coordinators obsessed with 2 handed punches

TV shows rival films these days for production costs, and given how slick it looks I welcome Trek trying to better itself.

I dunno maybe as a Doctor Who fan I've already gone through the "that's not my show" phase when it came back in 2005 as a slick, modern product with more action and budget

TheValeyard · 18-01-2019 11:59pm

I really enjoyed it.

Enjoyed seeing more of the internal workings of Discovery. Enterprise looking sexy.

Plot was fine. Setting it up for the season.

AtomicHorror · 19-01-2019 12:35am

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Pike was definitely the best thing about that episode, but overall the show is still plagued by many of the same issues as the last season. It's better than the S1 opener and most of that season to be sure, but it still feels like generic sci-fi than Trek

I think this means the show's just not for you? How many seasons will it take for you to conclude that rather than continue to torture yourself and us?

Sad Professor wrote: »

It was fine. A lot of the scenarios and action sequences are lifted from Star Trek 2009, though, which made everything far too familiar.

Which ones??

GSPfan · 19-01-2019 12:44am

@ pixelburp

As a Doctor Who fan do you not realise that if it didn’t modernise it would not survive, therefore the reboot of the series actually prolonged your show? I can understand anyone who chooses their show/film to just stay dead and drift off into distant memory but if you want your show to endure time it has to utilise modern day interpretations of the future.

ED E · 19-01-2019 12:46am

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

I don't hate it.. I was curious to see if there was any real improvement after all the coverage in the last few months and while there are some better things, overall its still just a flashy, expensive generic Sci-fi show but very little resemblance to Star Trek in the same way as the Kelvin movies.

We need to get over this. Its trek in name only. If you try to mate it with TOS/TNG etc you'll just end up like a Silmarillion reader watching a LOTR movie.

Tilly was great. CG allows them to do whatever they want now which is nice, before you might have Writer: "Lets do x" Producer: "Oooh that'll cost a fortune" now most things are within reach.

Elevator scene, two captains get in? You back the hell off to the corner of the turbolift. Come on like.

Im sure the Frankenstein bit will raise its head again next time. Was fully expecting her bot creations to save Michael when she impaled herself.

Gbear · 19-01-2019 12:54am

Was Spock's voice done by Zachary Quinto? It sounded similar.

Good start. I know that Trek has never shied too far away from space magic, but I can't say I'm thrilled with the idea that this galactic scale phenomenon is revealed to Spock through dream precognition.

Other than that slight concern, building on some similarly wibbly bits from last season, it was polished, good quality adventure times.

CramCycle · 19-01-2019 1:41am

GSPfan wrote: »

Is it too early to be in absolute love with Ensign Tilly? She is brilliant and the actor herself is so cute. I think she is brilliantly written and cast.

I think she was. This episode obviously had some outside influence over the writers where they abandoned any character development and turned her into a caricature of herself from early last season.

_Kaiser_ · 19-01-2019 1:42am

AtomicHorror wrote: »

I think this means the show's just not for you? How many seasons will it take for you to conclude that rather than continue to torture yourself and us?

Feel free to add me to your ignore list. No bother to me.

If these threads are just to gush over the episodes that's a different matter, but last I checked it was for people's opinions.

It's a visually very impressive show, but I have long since stopped being impressed solely by shiny CGI wizardry.

The main character is deeply unlikeable and a poor actress - not helped by the Rey-like "perfect in every way" writing, Tilly is nothing more than awkward and misplaced comedy relief (now supplemented by the same humour that many here slated The Orville for), and the bridge crew are largely anonymous at this point as they were last season.

But... Pike is a welcome and much needed addition, the lighter tone is an improvement, and while I'm not sold on the season arc mission, maybe it'll get better once it beds in (supposedly lots of reshoots again with the production staff changes so it's bound to be a bit uneven).

I don't like the JJ movies, what they did to long established characters, the aesthetic and generic shoot em up action comedy they became. Discovery carried most of the same flaws into season 1. It remains to be seen whether or not the above changes will carry forward into the rest of season 2.

_Kaiser_ · 19-01-2019 1:46am

ED E wrote: »

We need to get over this. Its trek in name only. If you try to mate it with TOS/TNG etc you'll just end up like a Silmarillion reader watching a LOTR movie.

Tilly was great. CG allows them to do whatever they want now which is nice, before you might have Writer: "Lets do x" Producer: "Oooh that'll cost a fortune" now most things are within reach.

But if we accept that it's really just Trek in name only then they should have just called it something else and in a different universe.

Calling it Star Trek, insisting that it fits within what was previously established, and rewriting/changing well known characters, plots or events is just going to annoy anyone who does like those previous shows.

tromtipp · 19-01-2019 8:35am

I did my best to enjoy the first season (and it had its moments) but there was too much conflict and CGI bells and whistles for me. It needed more than Vulcans and Klingons. This season is already demonstrating an effort to drag things back. Captain Pike's style is so much more Starfleet, and things he does - getting the bridge crew's names, setting up a ready room - will help bring us to a place where it feels more like Roddenberry's original vision. So all good imo.

I still have reservations about all the special effects - I can see why this ran over budget - they feel more influenced by ST movies than by ST TV - and TV was always where the things I love Trek for happened -character development and interaction and the slow establishment of relationships and atmosphere. I'm now feeling more optimistic about Discovery achieving that than I was during the first season.

I love Tilly and have done from the start. Intersting that the spores are still around. Of course she's right and we can't lose Stamets.

I liked the way the big action sequence and the rescue of Pike was all female (afraid I did enjoy the permanent silencing of the smug knowall, yes I know death is terrible, but hey). I'm pleased to have a little more humour even if it was clumsily done (ugh that sneeze). If Linus and Reno are joining the crew they'll certainly bring a change in mood - I hope it manages to be more Quark than Neelix.

Questions - what has traumatised little Spock - the bullying at school, the death of his Seylaht, someting else? What happened to Burnham's parents - what did Sarek call it, unthinkable - didn't sound like death anyway. What did the second half of the fortune cookie message refer to - not all losses are permanent - Culber? Hope so.

Overall feeling - YAY Star Trek is back.

TheValeyard · 19-01-2019 9:48am

The guy who died should have been wearing a Redshirt.....just saying...

pixelburp · 19-01-2019 10:11am

GSPfan wrote: »

@ pixelburp

As a Doctor Who fan do you not realise that if it didn’t modernise it would not survive, therefore the reboot of the series actually prolonged your show? I can understand anyone who chooses their show/film to just stay dead and drift off into distant memory but if you want your show to endure time it has to utilise modern day interpretations of the future.

Think you misread what I said? But yes, when Who came back, some conversations were almost 100% like the ones here, full of despair and angst about how the show wasn't like it was, be it tone, character ( even the length of rhe episodes and better FX was held against it, bizzarely). For some, it just "wasn't Doctor Who".

In time many concluded that while the superficial might have changed (with Trek, see explosions, more action set pieces etc), the heart of the show was still there (exploration, space and the final frontier is awesome , Ensign Tilly basically being the walking embodiment of the Federation).

And in another 20 years, if Trek is still around it'll have changed again to match TV / the zeitgeist and we'll cry again that they've switched up the norm once more.

Blazer · 19-01-2019 12:24pm

Tilly is a pain in the hole. No ensign would act like that fresh out of the academy.
Apart from her I do like it but its basically switch my brain off and go with the flow.
But yeah lets hope Tilly dies soon.

Discovery 2x01 – "Brother" [** SPOILERS WITHIN **]

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Discovery 2x01 – "Brother" [ SPOILERS WITHIN ]