Exit poll: The post referendum thread. No electioneering.

nozzferrahhtoo · 17-01-2019 03:50PM

Hope she consented to be named? We already had a big kerfuffle over the first abortion being outed and people saying that was an awful thing to do and it should have been a private matter.

ELM327 · 17-01-2019 03:51PM

nozzferrahhtoo wrote: »

Hope she consented to be named? We already had a big kerfuffle over the first abortion being outed and people saying that was an awful thing to do and it should have been a private matter.

Well she apparently asked for it to be raised in the Dáil so I can't imagine she objected to being named.

LorelaiG · 17-01-2019 03:53PM

nozzferrahhtoo wrote: »

Hope she consented to be named? We already had a big kerfuffle over the first abortion being outed and people saying that was an awful thing to do and it should have been a private matter.

Yes, she asked for the case to be raised in the Dail so has consented to being named.

GAA Beo · 17-01-2019 03:54PM

ELM327 wrote: »

I dislike those two bearded lefties too but a) it happened as the woman was named and b) "knackers" is not an appropriate term for any contributing member of society

Coppinger and Brid Smith, contribute nothing to society, only to it's downfall. I have had dealings with them, they aren't my style.

Amirani · 17-01-2019 03:57PM

LorelaiG wrote: »

The Coombe are not ready for abortions apparently, if this is the case the woman should have been referred to the Rotunda or to the NMH who are ready. She hasn't, she has been told her options are to wait it out and see if she miscarries or go to the UK. This is wrong.

This might make sense actually, and could be part of the issue here. Could she not be treated at a different hospital or what's the process around that?

nozzferrahhtoo · 17-01-2019 04:04PM

ELM327 wrote: »

Well she apparently asked for it to be raised in the Dáil so I can't imagine she objected to being named.

LorelaiG wrote: »

Yes, she asked for the case to be raised in the Dail so has consented to being named.

Good, thanks. That at least is a good thing!

Also glad I asked for a second reason. I just got my first ever "thanks" from EOTR

I am not sure what that means, but it has got to mean something.

gmisk · 17-01-2019 04:06PM

GAA Beo wrote: »

Coppinger and Brid Smith, contribute nothing to society, only to it's downfall. I have had dealings with them, they are scum.

I have met Brid Smith a few times and I have found her the complete opposite.
The fact you use the term "trot knackers" and "scum" and also seem to think "it probably didnt happen", says a lot more about you than them IMO.

LorelaiG · 17-01-2019 04:11PM

gmisk wrote: »

I have met Brid Smith a few times and I have found her the complete opposite.
The fact you use the term "trot knackers" and "scum" and also seem to think "it probably didnt happen", says a lot more about you than them IMO.

Exactly, I've met Ruth on many occasions, she lives nearish to me. She's always been nothing but nice with any dealings I've had with her.

ELM327 · 17-01-2019 04:12PM

gmisk wrote: »

I have met Brid Smith a few times and I have found her the complete opposite.
The fact you use the term "trot knackers" and "scum" and also seem to think "it probably didnt happen", says a lot more about you than them IMO.

+1

I have many ideology differences with the likes of smith and coppinger, they are very left wing and I am generally right wing on financial issues so we wouldn't agree on most things. But calling anyone scum when they are both - by most accounts - nice people is quite frankly odious.

GAA Beo · 17-01-2019 04:14PM

LorelaiG wrote: »

Exactly, I've met Ruth on many occasions, she lives nearish to me. She's always been nothing but nice with any dealings I've had with her.

She's a vile hate filled woman. Most people I know think similar. Always wondered what type of person voted for her.....Dubs.....:rolleyes::rolleyes:

Did she ever get nationalising Intel like she wanted?? She is a very dangerous idiot, and her followers likewise.

GAA Beo · 17-01-2019 04:17PM

gmisk wrote: »

I have met Brid Smith a few times and I have found her the complete opposite.
The fact you use the term "trot knackers" and "scum" and also seem to think "it probably didnt happen", says a lot more about you than them IMO.

The last time I seen her she was outside the Dail at a protest with a load of communist flags. Ranting away and inciting hatred.

Anyone running around with a communist flag, which led to the slaughter of hundreds of millions of people. Is no better than a Nazi, and is indeed scum and a dangerous idiot.

freshpopcorn · 17-01-2019 04:19PM

Mod NoteGAA Beo just be careful how you speak about people on this thread.
If you think somebody is poor at there job or you disagree with there views write it in a nicer manner.

gmisk · 17-01-2019 04:20PM

GAA Beo wrote: »

She's a vile hate filled woman. Most people I know think similar. Always wondered what type of person voted for her.....Dubs.....:rolleyes::rolleyes:

Did she ever get nationalising Intel like she wanted?? She is a very dangerous idiot, and her followers likewise.

Your personal hate for the 2 TDs that raised the horrendous situation this woman has been put in isn't really relevant, unless you still think it didnt happen?

freshpopcorn · 17-01-2019 04:28PM

Guys can I ask sort of a thick question. I think I've asked it ages ago.
If Ireland elected a party such as Renua or Peadar Toibins new party could these easily make abortion illegal in Ireland again if they had a large amount of seats in the Dail and it would tskes ages with bills/etc
I know this won't happen but the marriage referendum is set in stone they can't change it without going back to the people but this isn't. Am I correct in saying that?

ohnonotgmail · 17-01-2019 04:33PM

freshpopcorn wrote: »

Guys can I ask sort of a thick question. I think I've asked it ages ago.
If Ireland elected a party such as Renua or Peadar Toibins new party could these easily make abortion illegal in Ireland again if they had a large amount of seats in the Dail and it would tskes ages with bills/etc
I know this won't happen but the marriage referendum is set in stone they can't change it without going back to the people but this isn't. Am I correct in saying that?

if they had a dail majority they could certainly repeal the abortion law and make abortion illegal again. they could not get it added back into the constitution though without a referendum. The same with the divorce laws.

ELM327 · 17-01-2019 04:37PM

freshpopcorn wrote: »

Guys can I ask sort of a thick question. I think I've asked it ages ago.
If Ireland elected a party such as Renua or Peadar Toibins new party could these easily make abortion illegal in Ireland again if they had a large amount of seats in the Dail and it would tskes ages with bills/etc
I know this won't happen but the marriage referendum is set in stone they can't change it without going back to the people but this isn't. Am I correct in saying that?

Yes, what we voted for was to allow the government free reign with regards to abortion.

However in reality given the 2:1 margin of victory and the "hot potato" nature of the topic, it will sit as it is now and not be touched again for another generation at least.

bullvine · 17-01-2019 04:40PM

Do I understand this correctly? It was refused cause she has gone over 12 weeks? Is that correct? thanks

ELM327 · 17-01-2019 04:42PM

bullvine wrote: »

Do I understand this correctly? It was refused cause she has gone over 12 weeks? Is that correct? thanks

12 weeks is the "abortion on demand" criteria

However as this was a confirmed FFA case the 12 weeks does not apply.

amcalester · 17-01-2019 04:42PM

bullvine wrote: »

Do I understand this correctly? It was refused cause she has gone over 12 weeks? Is that correct? thanks

We don't know why it was refused, but as her child was diagnosed with a FFA the 12 week restriction is irrelevant.

ohnonotgmail · 17-01-2019 04:43PM

bullvine wrote: »

Do I understand this correctly? It was refused cause she has gone over 12 weeks? Is that correct? thanks

Well we don't know why it was refused but it is not because it was over 12 weeks. Over 12 weeks it is allowed to have an abortion if the fetus has a FFA which is the case here. two doctors recommended that she have one. the hospital board said no for reasons unknown.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts · 17-01-2019 04:46PM

I’m going to reserve judgement on this development until we know more.

Really, there’s going to be teething problems. This is a sea change. It’s going to take a while to bed in the new services and work around doctors and surgical staff who don’t want to perform abortions. I’m very confident that all will be well, it will just take a while.

Loafing Oaf · 17-01-2019 04:48PM

LorelaiG wrote: »

A woman who is 14 weeks pregnant has been denied an abortion on the grounds of an FFA (certified by two consultants) in the Coombe hospital by the board there. They want to wait and see if she miscarries first.

I wonder is there something in the law that would encourage them to adopt this approach.

amcalester · 17-01-2019 04:48PM

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

I’m going to reserve judgement on this development until we know more.

Really, there’s going to be teething problems. This is a sea change. It’s going to take a while to bed in the new services and work around doctors and surgical staff who don’t want to perform abortions. I’m very confident that all will be well, it will just take a while.

True, but it should have been explained to the woman the reason she was denied an abortion.

Now maybe she was, but somehow I doubt that.

freshpopcorn · 17-01-2019 04:51PM

ELM327 wrote: »

Yes, what we voted for was to allow the government free reign with regards to abortion.

However in reality given the 2:1 margin of victory and the "hot potato" nature of the topic, it will sit as it is now and not be touched again for another generation at least.

Thanks! That was my understanding.
It's just something I have wondered about with how things/attitudes can change.

LorelaiG · 17-01-2019 04:57PM

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

I wonder is there something in the law that would encourage them to adopt this approach.

Yes, doctors can still be prosecuted for performing abortions outside of the criteria set out in the legislation so they're worried about being prosecuted.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts · 17-01-2019 04:58PM

amcalester wrote: »

True, but it should have been explained to the woman the reason she was denied an abortion.

Now maybe she was, but somehow I doubt that.

We just don’t really have enough information. People can be economical with the truth. I just don’t want to speculate personally.

keano_afc · 17-01-2019 05:08PM

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

We just don’t really have enough information. People can be economical with the truth. I just don’t want to speculate personally.

Indeed. The sensible thing to do would be to wait until the Coombe comment on this, but try tell that to the likes of Coppinger and Smith.

Igotadose · 17-01-2019 05:08PM

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

We just don’t really have enough information. People can be economical with the truth. I just don’t want to speculate personally.

Agreed. IMO if she requested the termination and it was refused, that's egregiously wrong. If she was offered the opportunity to miscarry naturally, that's not illegal and sometimes is the best option in terms of impact on the mother's health.

seamus · 17-01-2019 05:09PM

In this case, I'm cautious to comment because the details of the case are hearsay. The TDs are paraphrasing what they've been told by the woman, who herself is paraphrasing what she's been told by the doctors.

I'm not accusing anyone of lying, but I've lost track of the number of people who've come away from a hospital believing one thing despite the doctors having said the exact opposite.

Hotblack Desiato · 17-01-2019 05:10PM

nozzferrahhtoo wrote: »

Hope she consented to be named?

She has not been named in any report I've seen. People's personal situations are raised in Dail questions all the time without them being named.

Amirani wrote: »

This might make sense actually, and could be part of the issue here.

It's not. The Coombe already performs abortions under POLDPA where the woman's life is at risk.

Exit poll: The post referendum thread. No electioneering.

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