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Brexit Discussion Thread VI

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Comments

  • #3902
    judeboy101
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,246 ✭✭✭judeboy101


    EdgeCase wrote: »
    That's always been one of the consequences of a no deal Brexit. Only Westminster agreeing something sane can avoid that.

    We know this for the last two years.

    The EU made several compromise proposals, all of which the UK rejected out of hand, preferring the idea of believing that it'll somehow be fudged.

    You might want to tell leo

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/dec/21/ireland-has-no-plans-in-place-for-hard-border-after-brexit-varadkar?CMP=share_btn_link


  • #3903
    Hurrache
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,394 ✭✭✭✭Hurrache


    judeboy101 wrote: »
    You might want to tell leo

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/dec/21/ireland-has-no-plans-in-place-for-hard-border-after-brexit-varadkar?CMP=share_btn_link

    He never said there won't be border checks in that article?


  • #3904
    prawnsambo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,767 ✭✭✭✭prawnsambo


    judeboy101 wrote: »
    You might want to tell leo

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/dec/21/ireland-has-no-plans-in-place-for-hard-border-after-brexit-varadkar?CMP=share_btn_link
    Did you actually read this? Because he's not saying what you seem to be implying. But then again, you're not very clear in what you're saying either. Perhaps you might want to edit your post.


  • #3905
    EdgeCase
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,471 ✭✭✭EdgeCase


    judeboy101 wrote: »
    You might want to tell leo

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/dec/21/ireland-has-no-plans-in-place-for-hard-border-after-brexit-varadkar?CMP=share_btn_link
    We’re not making plans for a hard border between Northern Ireland and Ireland. Our focus is entirely on getting an agreement that ensures that doesn’t happen.

    That's a statement of hopeful optimism. It's not a statement of hard lines, nor is it saying that it won't happen.

    They are clearly concerned that if they start to publicly accept that a hard border is on the agenda that the UK will just start to factor that in to their position and the EU will also not be worried about it.

    The fact that they're saying the don't want one and being very firm on that is keeping avoiding that scenario in the agenda.

    To be fair to the Irish Government and Varadkar they've been very consistent, calm, concise and have steadfastly stood behind the Good Friday Agreement to which they are a signatory.

    I'm getting really fed up with this blame everything on everyone else and accept no responsibility for the consequences of decisions mentality.
    It's pathetic tabloid nonsense.

    If you want to leave the EU without any agreement - there are serious practical consequences to that. You can't vote or wish those away. Nor can you bury your head in the sand and blame everyone else.


  • #3906
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 42,176 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    judeboy101 wrote: »
    You might want to tell leo

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/dec/21/ireland-has-no-plans-in-place-for-hard-border-after-brexit-varadkar?CMP=share_btn_link

    No more one-liners please.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



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  • #3907
    ThePanjandrum
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 431 ✭✭ThePanjandrum


    SNIP. There's a mod warning above. No more condescending quips please.


  • #3908
    prawnsambo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,767 ✭✭✭✭prawnsambo


    I find it bizarre that no-deal is being proposed as a genuine alternative. It is hyper inflation in a bottle. One that opens on the 30th March and doesn't get properly closed again for decades. The lasting effects of which go far beyond inflation. The analogy of a gun to the head isn't far off except that when it's fired, it doesn't kill the victim, but leaves them in a vegetative state.


  • #3909
    Headshot
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 55,803 ✭✭✭✭Headshot


    Im watching Politics live on BBC and WTO comes into play again by those Brexiteers, why the **** do BBC never have any economic experts on the panel and bring home some home truths


  • #3910
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 42,176 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Headshot wrote: »
    Im watching Politics live on BBC and WTO comes into play again by those Brexiteers, why the **** do BBC never have any economic experts on the panel and bring home some home truths

    The glib answer is that people are fed up of experts.

    Seriously though, I think it's the fact that they know that the Tories can visit serious damage upon them if they act as anything other than loyal cheerleaders.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • #3911
    Berserker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,046 ✭✭✭Berserker


    eire4 wrote: »
    I am no fan Varadkar but it is and has been very clear all along. If there is no deal upon their exit from the EU there will be a border. The fault for that lies 100% with the British and not either the EU nor Varadkar.

    Are you talking about a physical 'hard' border? The border that's in place at the moment could remain if he wants any old border. The UK isn't calling for a hard border even with a no deal exit. Not sure how you can blame them but I'm sure you'll find a way. If Leo wants a hard border then he's going to have to build one. Changing his tune from the days of wanting no hard border on the island though. The EU must have had a word with him and he is softening up the Irish people for the bill that's coming their way.


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  • #3912
    An Ciarraioch
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,806 ✭✭✭An Ciarraioch


    Berserker wrote: »
    Are you talking about a physical 'hard' border? The border that's in place at the moment could remain if he wants any old border. The UK isn't calling for a hard border even with a no deal exit. If Leo want that there is going to be a hard border in the event of a no-deal exit then he's going to have to build one.

    It has been UK membership of the SM and CU that has maintained a soft Border, so no, it couldn't remain.


  • #3913
    Hurrache
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,394 ✭✭✭✭Hurrache


    Berserker wrote: »
    Are you talking about a physical 'hard' border? The border that's in place at the moment could remain if he wants any old border. The UK isn't calling for a hard border even with a no deal exit. Not sure how you can blame them but I'm sure you'll find a way. If Leo wants a hard border then he's going to have to build one. Changing his tune from the days of wanting no hard border on the island though. The EU must have had a word with him and he is softening up the Irish people for the bill that's coming their way.

    And how will that adhere to Britain's red lines? Brexiteers are very fond of throwing out the statement that they won't put up a border without paying any attention to the fact that anyone from EU can then walk into their country.

    Your post is completely disingenuous.


  • #3914
    cml387
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,918 ✭✭✭cml387


    funkey_monkey wrote: »
    Crispin seems to think he can leave on 29th with zero tariffs with EU and no friction at the ports.
    Who to believe for the voters?

    I would guess that most people in the UK who are not politically savvy would say "Let's just leave, at least we won't have to hear all this Brexit nonsense any more"

    They would think, what's the worst that can happen? This is England after all? We'll muddle through as we always do.

    On April 1st (ironically) they will see that the sky hasn't fallen, the trains will run, the banks will be open.

    Only gradually will it dawn. In summer, when they're on holidays and standing in the non - EU queue for passports.Their brother in law will be on short time from his factory.Strange shortages in the shops.


  • #3915
    lawred2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,777 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    Berserker wrote: »
    Are you talking about a physical 'hard' border? The border that's in place at the moment could remain if he wants any old border. The UK isn't calling for a hard border even with a no deal exit. Not sure how you can blame them but I'm sure you'll find a way. If Leo wants a hard border then he's going to have to build one. Changing his tune from the days of wanting no hard border on the island though. The EU must have had a word with him and he is softening up the Irish people for the bill that's coming their way.

    Reads like you're in your element anyway.. sad to see that there are still people on hand to gleefully welcome the prospect of the entrenched divisions of old returning.


  • #3916
    Calina
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,219 ✭✭✭Calina


    Berserker wrote: »
    Are you talking about a physical 'hard' border? The border that's in place at the moment could remain if he wants any old border. The UK isn't calling for a hard border even with a no deal exit. Not sure how you can blame them but I'm sure you'll find a way. If Leo wants a hard border then he's going to have to build one. Changing his tune from the days of wanting no hard border on the island though. The EU must have had a word with him and he is softening up the Irish people for the bill that's coming their way.

    The UK is either being disingenuous or dishonest about the border in the event of a no deal Brexit. If they do not enforce in NI they cannot enforce anywhere else.

    Hard border is caused by Brexit. No amount of screaming by the UK that they do not want one will change the fact that they caused one if it ensues.


  • #3917
    Berserker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,046 ✭✭✭Berserker


    An Ciarraioch wrote: »
    It has been UK membership of the SM and CU that has maintained a soft Border, so no, it couldn't remain.

    If the EU and Leo want that then so be it. It's not the wish of the UK government or the people of NI.


  • #3918
    Beechwoodspark
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,052 ✭✭✭✭Beechwoodspark


    Calina wrote: »
    The UK is either being disingenuous or dishonest about the border in the event of a no deal Brexit. If they do not enforce in NI they cannot enforce anywhere else.

    Hard border is caused by Brexit. No amount of screaming by the UK that they do not want one will change the fact that they caused one if it ensues.

    Some in The Uk are akin to the child sticking his fingers in his ears and screaming whenever anyone points out reality.

    If there is a no deal Brexit the UK will be Compelled to set up a hard border by the WTO.

    Hence the requirement for the backstop.


  • #3919
    Calina
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,219 ✭✭✭Calina


    Beechwoodspark wrote: »
    Some in The Uk are akin to the child sticking his fingers in his ears and screaming whenever anyone points out reality.

    If there is a no deal Brexit the UK will be Compelled to set up a hard border by the WTO.

    Hence the requirement for the backstop.

    Backstop is irrelevant if Brexit happens without the withdrawal agreement.


  • #3920
    cml387
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,918 ✭✭✭cml387


    Beechwoodspark wrote: »
    Some in The Uk are akin to the child sticking his fingers in his ears and screaming whenever anyone points out reality.

    If there is a no deal Brexit the UK will be Compelled to set up a hard border by the WTO.

    Hence the requirement for the backstop.

    Em, no.

    The EU will demand that the NI border is not used as a path for entry of non-EU approved goods to be brought into the EU.

    The UK has no interest in securing the border. This seems to have been forgotten by a lot of people.


  • #3921
    lawred2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,777 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    Berserker wrote: »
    If the EU and Leo want that then so be it. It's not the wish of the UK government or the people of NI.

    Well except for rejecting every deal possible to achieve such a situation

    If it is their wish, then why are they about to reject the WA in favour of a no deal Brexit.

    Your position is so utterly disingenuous as to be nothing but a self serving and grotesque distortion of reality..


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  • #3922
    Berserker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,046 ✭✭✭Berserker


    lawred2 wrote: »
    Reads like you're in your element anyway.. sad to see that there are still people on hand to gleefully welcome the prospect of the entrenched divisions of old returning.

    I've called this since day one. Take a look back at conversation between Francie B. and I. This was always going to be the end game, i.e. a hard border paid for by the Irish. I hope and believe that the people of NI are smart enough to see through the bs being peddled by Leo & the EU. Nobody in the UK is calling for a hard border. This narrative has come from the EU and the Irish government is the messenger.


  • #3923
    RobMc59
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,831 ✭✭✭RobMc59


    Calina wrote: »
    The UK is either being disingenuous or dishonest about the border in the event of a no deal Brexit. If they do not enforce in NI they cannot enforce anywhere else.

    Hard border is caused by Brexit. No amount of screaming by the UK that they do not want one will change the fact that they caused one if it ensues.

    Apart from the sea there is no other border to enforce apart from NI and the Republic and if Ireland and the UK have said they will not have a hard border then is`nt that believable?Why would anyone want to go back to the bad times?
    Whether it`s popular to say it or not there is a unique,special relationship between Britain and Ireland which does`nt exist with any other nations.


  • #3924
    Hurrache
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,394 ✭✭✭✭Hurrache


    Berserker wrote: »
    It's not the wish of the UK government

    It is, they wanted to take back control of their borders and leave the various customs unions


    Your posts are only deluding yourself.
    cml387 wrote: »

    The UK has no interest in securing the border. This seems to have been forgotten by a lot of people.

    Take back control...


  • #3925
    lawred2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,777 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    cml387 wrote: »
    Em, no.

    The EU will demand that the NI border is not used as a path for entry of non-EU approved goods to be brought into the EU.

    The UK has no interest in securing the border. This seems to have been forgotten by a lot of people.

    It has an interest in uncontrolled inward migration no? Ireland is not going to introduce north bound emigration checks..


  • #3926
    Berserker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,046 ✭✭✭Berserker


    Hurrache wrote: »
    It is, they wanted to take back control of their borders and leave the various customs unions

    Your posts are only deluding yourself.

    Take back control...

    Where have they said they wanted a border on the island? The British Isles have special agreements in place regarding the movement of people, as we all know.


  • #3927
    Hurrache
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,394 ✭✭✭✭Hurrache


    Berserker wrote: »
    Nobody in the UK is calling for a hard border. This narrative has come from the EU and the Irish government is the messenger.

    3rd bullet point.
    Boris-571120.jpg
    Berserker wrote: »
    The British Isles have special agreements in place regarding the movement of people, as we all know.

    You're confusing your agreements. How will CTA stop all those pesky Europeans sneaking in?


  • #3928
    Berserker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,046 ✭✭✭Berserker


    lawred2 wrote: »
    Well except for rejecting every deal possible to achieve such a situation

    If it is their wish, then why are they about to reject the WA in favour of a no deal Brexit.

    Your position is so utterly disingenuous as to be nothing but a self serving and grotesque distortion of reality..

    By not accepting sh1t deals?? How dare they!!!! Show me where the UK has said that they want a hard border on the island? Your Irish republican bias is trying to generate a situation that simply doesn't exist.


  • #3929
    cml387
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,918 ✭✭✭cml387


    lawred2 wrote: »
    It has an interest in uncontrolled inward migration no? Ireland is not going to introduce north bound emigration checks..

    Who is going to be using the border as a backdoor into the UK? Only EU nationals, as they are the only ones who have free entry into the ROI. And as has already been pointed out, the whole debate about inward migration to the UK from the EU is a red herring anyway.

    No, it's the use of the ROI as a backdoor route for non EU goods is the problem. And that will demand customs checks from our side.

    As was the case before the EU. The most stringent customs checks were carried out by Irish customs coming into the ROI, as anyone who remembers travel before the single market will remember.


  • #3930
    Hurrache
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,394 ✭✭✭✭Hurrache


    Berserker wrote: »
    By not accepting sh1t deals?? How dare they!!!! Show me where the UK has said that they want a hard border on the island? Your Irish republican bias is trying to generate a situation that simply doesn't exist.

    It's like reading JRM's blog.


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  • #3931
    Berserker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,046 ✭✭✭Berserker


    lawred2 wrote: »
    It has an interest in uncontrolled inward migration no? Ireland is not going to introduce north bound emigration checks..

    Seriously? I've read plenty of your posts and whilst I disagree with you, I know you are no fool. A few months back, Leo & the EU had no hard border under any circumstances. Now, a hard border is coming and the UK is going to pay for it but they have no interest in having one. Where do you think this is going to go?
    Hurrache wrote: »
    3rd bullet point.

    Do you understand the nature of the relationship between the RoI and Uk and how that differs from the of the UK and the rest of Europe? Once more show me where the UK has asked for a hard border? Can anyone show me this? I can give countless examples where they say they don't.


This discussion has been closed.
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