Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Wolf Game Thread

Frank WW · 14-01-2019 11:53am

Barbara WW wrote: »

Bomomir surely wont come out and be lynched. He will try play to keep himself alive as he can win without being on the Village team.

Though hes welcome to prove me wrong

I think we're hoping that Boromir is the honourable hero who ran fearlessly into battle on his own against the rampaging Urak-hai at the climax of Fellowship, rather than the petulant, entitled Cobain fan who shows up at first in Rivendell.

Tegan WW · 14-01-2019 11:56am

I see there is no rule to play in interest of your team in this game.
Figuring out Boromir pluses and minuses, in the case that the OP does give his full role.

minus - converted by wolves
minus - converted by cult
neutral - lynched
plus - attracts a SK kill.
plus - could be recipient of the non fake poison.

anything else?

Jake WW · 14-01-2019 11:58am

Has special powers unknown to us?

Tegan WW · 14-01-2019 12:02pm

Jake WW wrote: »

Has special powers unknown to us?

Tegan WW wrote: »

I see there is no rule to play in interest of your team in this game.
Figuring out Boromir pluses and minuses, in the case that the OP does give his full role.

minus - converted by wolves
minus - converted by cult
neutral - lynched
plus - attracts a SK kill.
plus - could be recipient of the non fake poison.

anything else?

See highlighted.

Tegan WW · 14-01-2019 12:15pm

Brendan WW wrote: »

#FFA1:
Barbara WW
Tegan WW
Desmond WW

Bonus points for anyone who can identify why I picked these.

Please expand on your FFA, you forgot to put any reasoning into it and instead seek others to find reasoning for you.

Oisin WW · 14-01-2019 12:21pm

Bit harsh on Boromir but I see where you'll coming from. Saying that, aren't we all a liability as we can all be converted to the cult!

Abigail WW · 14-01-2019 12:24pm

Oisin WW wrote: »

Bit harsh on Boromir but I see where you'll coming from. Saying that, aren't we all a liability as we can all be converted to the cult!

Yes but we wouldn’t be full converts, we would only count at the end of the game

Phil WW · 14-01-2019 12:26pm

Oisin WW wrote: »

Bit harsh on Boromir but I see where you'll coming from. Saying that, aren't we all a liability as we can all be converted to the cult!

No, the consensous seems to be that Boromir would be an active member, in so far as he'd be in play manipulating the village, as opposed to others who (seemingly) wouldn't be full conversions, right?

Basically, Boromir would be converted, while the rest of us are "Converted in parity count only".

Oisin WW · 14-01-2019 12:29pm

Abigail WW wrote: »

Yes but we wouldn’t be full converts, we would only count at the end of the game

Phil WW wrote: »

No, the consensous seems to be that Boromir would be an active member, in so far as he'd be in play manipulating the village, as opposed to others who (seemingly) wouldn't be full conversions, right?

Basically, Boromir would be converted, while the rest of us are "Converted in parity count only".

Oh I'm aware of the mechanics, I'm just pointing out that we are all in a position to loose the game for the village (that is all current villagers)

Though of course there is not a lot we can do about that.

Wendy WW · 14-01-2019 12:30pm

If your cult converted you're not actively working against us the same way.

Frank WW · 14-01-2019 12:33pm

Tegan WW wrote: »

I see there is no rule to play in interest of your team in this game.
Figuring out Boromir pluses and minuses, in the case that the OP does give his full role.

minus - converted by wolves
minus - converted by cult
neutral - lynched
plus - attracts a SK kill.
plus - could be recipient of the non fake poison.

anything else?

Only thinking about the likes of that now that you mention it. Keeping an unouted Boromir around slightly widens the pool of those who might receive the real poison and/or SK kill in place of an RV.

There's also this - If there are prizes in the game, or if the unmentionable things from the OP come into play, Boromir could have uses for the village in that instance. On the flip-side given his duel win conditions, he could also have uses for the wolves in that context either.

Neutral - Widens the pool for his team to win any prizes there might be.

Plus - Widens the pool to potentially protect important RVs should the 'unmentionables' be things which randomly kills players.

but then...

Minus - Does the same to potentially protect Sauron and The Witch King if he becomes Nazgul.

Abigail WW · 14-01-2019 12:35pm

Wendy WW wrote: »

If your cult converted you're not actively working against us the same way.

This I feel is the biggest point - normal converts will be working for the good of the village whereas full converts will be working against the village

Winifred WW · 14-01-2019 12:42pm

Barbara WW wrote: »

Bomomir surely wont come out and be lynched. He will try play to keep himself alive as he can win without being on the Village team.

Though hes welcome to prove me wrong

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b07MuI_pw28

Wendy WW · 14-01-2019 12:44pm

Going purely on the OP I think it's in the villages interests for Boromir to come out. Essentially an NVR that can switch sides. There are two sides looking to convert him so it becomes more likely as the game goes on. A character that was posting as good and then switches with no notice to use would be catastrophic at end game stage.

Now, the proviso is that Boromir might have information that we don't that isn't included in the OP. It's up to the player to decide what way they want to do this but as the old saying goes "I'd rather Boromir fall on his sword than shove it through my throat".

Barbara WW · 14-01-2019 12:49pm

Frank WW wrote: »

I think we're hoping that Boromir is the honourable hero who ran fearlessly into battle on his own against the rampaging Urak-hai at the climax of Fellowship, rather than the petulant, entitled Cobain fan who shows up at first in Rivendell.

Thats it, sweet talk him into coming out

Frank WW · 14-01-2019 12:49pm

Oisin WW wrote: »

Oh I'm aware of the mechanics, I'm just pointing out that we are all in a position to loose the game for the village (that is all current villagers)

Though of course there is not a lot we can do about that.

There does seem to be a marked difference though which goes beyond 'sure we could all lose it for the village'.

The rest of us (barring the ring bearer it seems) could count in win conditions for Sauron and The Witch King if they manage to convert us to their cult. However, we would still be villagers as far as we knew and working as such. Once the village manage to wipe out Sauron + TWK and any other Nazgul, these converts (the cult) would only count as villagers. They wouldn't keep the fight alive for that wolf team, that wolf team would be out of the game.

Boromir is very different - If converted, according to general consensus he will become a fully fledged wolf convert, a Nazgul rather than a cult member - Wolf backroom access, plotting against the village, an additional wolf team member for us to kill in order to win (unlike the cult converts). Frodo and possibly Sam could also suffer this fate as ring bearers, but in the meantime Frodo has powers to help the village where Boromir doesn't.

To be honest Oisin, that's either a very carefree and existential attitude there on something which the village need to address, or just an OP misunderstanding.

Barbara WW · 14-01-2019 12:50pm

Wendy WW wrote: »

Going purely on the OP I think it's in the villages interests for Boromir to come out. Essentially an NVR that can switch sides. There are two sides looking to convert him so it becomes more likely as the game goes on. A character that was posting as good and then switches with no notice to use would be catastrophic at end game stage.

Now, the proviso is that Boromir might have information that we don't that isn't included in the OP. It's up to the player to decide what way they want to do this but as the old saying goes "I'd rather Boromir fall on his sword than shove it through my throat".

Fact is it is in the villages best interests, but its not in his best interests.

Dwelling over it wont make it so, if it happens it happens.

Brendan WW · 14-01-2019 12:51pm

Anyone pushing for Boromir to come out today is being anti-town.

Best case scenario for us is that Boromir doesn't get converted. That 100% can't happen if he claims - we have to lynch him then. On top of that we waste a lynch, wolves get an easy bandwagon to jump on, everyone relaxes - and we lose a day of information gathering.

Wolves make mistakes when under pressure. Giving them a free townie to lynch is a woeful idea.

Brendan WW · 14-01-2019 12:52pm

Also no coincidence that Barb and Tegan are pushing for it. Hi wolves

Jake WW · 14-01-2019 12:54pm

I’ve just looked at the lynch form and No Lynch is one of the options

Jake WW · 14-01-2019 12:55pm

Brendan WW wrote: »

Anyone pushing for Boromir to come out today is being anti-town.

.........

Wolves make mistakes when under pressure. Giving them a free townie to lynch is a woeful idea.

But it takes away the chance of converting him though.

Barbara WW · 14-01-2019 12:57pm

Brendan WW wrote: »

Also no coincidence that Barb and Tegan are pushing for it. Hi wolves

Quote where I pushed this ? I look forward to your sincerest apologies

Wendy WW · 14-01-2019 12:59pm

Brendan WW wrote: »

Anyone pushing for Boromir to come out today is being anti-town.

Best case scenario for us is that Boromir doesn't get converted. That 100% can't happen if he claims - we have to lynch him then. On top of that we waste a lynch, wolves get an easy bandwagon to jump on, everyone relaxes - and we lose a day of information gathering.

Wolves make mistakes when under pressure. Giving them a free townie to lynch is a woeful idea.

How is it anti town to push to remove a likely turn coat? We won't know they've been converted so they would be the perfect sleeper agent.

Oisin WW · 14-01-2019 1:02pm

Frank WW wrote: »

There does seem to be a marked difference though which goes beyond 'sure we could all lose it for the village'.

The rest of us (barring the ring bearer it seems) could count in win conditions for Sauron and The Witch King if they manage to convert us to their cult. However, we would still be villagers as far as we knew and working as such. Once the village manage to wipe out Sauron + TWK and any other Nazgul, these converts (the cult) would only count as villagers. They wouldn't keep the fight alive for that wolf team, that wolf team would be out of the game.

Boromir is very different - If converted, according to general consensus he will become a fully fledged wolf convert, a Nazgul rather than a cult member - Wolf backroom access, plotting against the village, an additional wolf team member for us to kill in order to win (unlike the cult converts). Frodo and possibly Sam could also suffer this fate as ring bearers, but in the meantime Frodo has powers to help the village where Boromir doesn't.

To be honest Oisin, that's either a very carefree and existential attitude there on something which the village need to address, or just an OP misunderstanding.

This point is not clear though which is why I raised the issue, is the cult finished if Sauron + TWK and any other Nazgul are killed?

Phil WW · 14-01-2019 1:14pm

Oisin WW wrote: »

Oh I'm aware of the mechanics, I'm just pointing out that we are all in a position to loose the game for the village (that is all current villagers)

Though of course there is not a lot we can do about that.

Wendy WW wrote: »

How is it anti town to push to remove a likely turn coat? We won't know they've been converted so they would be the perfect sleeper agent.

Devils advocate, the chances of Boro being converted tonight without him coming out are slim, and lynching a villager on purpose is always something wolves will push.

Tegan WW · 14-01-2019 1:15pm

Oisin WW wrote: »

This point is not clear though which is why I raised the issue, is the cult finished if Sauron + TWK and any other Nazgul are killed?

I don't think so, but I don't think it would end the game.
Those converted to the cult (unknowingly) would remain around, if all the remaining players were cult members, the cult would win, but for the interest of the game, the final battle may be allowed to finish off.
So the game may end with some message like, while the cult villagers surrounded and killed the last of the cult wolves, the cult rejoiced for the civil war in the cult was over.

Frank WW · 14-01-2019 1:18pm

Brendan WW wrote: »

Anyone pushing for Boromir to come out today is being anti-town.

Best case scenario for us is that Boromir doesn't get converted. That 100% can't happen if he claims - we have to lynch him then. On top of that we waste a lynch, wolves get an easy bandwagon to jump on, everyone relaxes - and we lose a day of information gathering.

Wolves make mistakes when under pressure. Giving them a free townie to lynch is a woeful idea.

Brendan WW wrote: »

Also no coincidence that Barb and Tegan are pushing for it. Hi wolves

Let's translate...

"Hi wolves, Boromir here. F**k these village pricks, convert me in the morning please and thank you"

No but seriously, I don't think anyone is automatically anti-town or wolf for discussing this with reasoning. Boromir is potentially a full enemy for the village. If I was a wolf, I would be trying to recruit any Nazgul like Boromir who I could. It would be a high priority.

I don't understand why you think discussing this is such a bad/wolf move, unless I am missing something. I get that it's not perfect or anywhere near it, but the work of wolves? "Yeah, get yourself lynched on Day 1 Boromir so we permanently close an avenue for recruiting a new member".

I don't see it.

Oisin WW · 14-01-2019 1:21pm

Tegan WW wrote: »

I don't think so, but I don't think it would end the game.
Those converted to the cult (unknowingly) would remain around, if all the remaining players were cult members, the cult would win, but for the interest of the game, the final battle may be allowed to finish off.
So the game may end with some message like, while the cult villagers surrounded and killed the last of the cult wolves, the cult rejoiced for the civil war in the cult was over.

Well I can't see it clarified anywhere in the OP on in this thread so I'm wondering why Frank seems to think converts return to village if the wolf team is killed, does he know something we don't?

Desmond WW · 14-01-2019 1:26pm

Barbara WW wrote: »

Quote where I pushed this ? I look forward to your sincerest apologies

They want to lynch me as well and I at a loss as to why.

Frank WW · 14-01-2019 1:30pm

Oisin WW wrote: »

This point is not clear though which is why I raised the issue, is the cult finished if Sauron + TWK and any other Nazgul are killed?

Good question actually.

OP wrote:

9. Cult Rules: Sauron’s convert at night does not change any powers a player may or may not have, they will continue as the same alignment and will not be informed of the conversion, unless they become a Nazgul. Night time conversions will not be announced on thread.

Win conditions:

"Sauron/Cult: Wins when all living players are converted to the cult of Sauron, or by killing off the wolf team and the Balrog and gaining parity with the village."

The cult converts don't change/lose/gain power when converted.

Therefore I reckon Sauron's wolf team needs a full wolf member alive (Sauron, Witch King, a Nazgul) in order to submit their order to convert or to kill (poison, or use their gained kill if they obtain the Ring later in the game).

This to me suggests that there are no possible ways for the cult to carry on after the main members are killed. If the converts don't know they're wolves themselves, and can't convert or poison someone, how does that wolf team function or win?

Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Wolf Game Thread

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