Are there any sporting teams or individuals from 20, 30,40, 50years ago that could..

Mysterypunter · 14-01-2019 08:15AM

Loads of them. The first one to mind is the West Indies cricketers of the 70's & 80's. The best of all time

Ulysses Gaze · 14-01-2019 09:09AM

The likes of Dan Marino, John Elway and Joe Montana would still walk into any top NFL teams today.

I don't think the likes of Maradona, di Stefano, Beckenbauer, Pele, Best or Cruyff would have any problems either.

ohnonotgmail · 14-01-2019 09:56AM

benjamin d wrote: »

I think in team sports any player or team from any previous era (80s or earlier, for example) would be utterly demolished by even the lowest level of professional side these days if they were dropped in as they were in their prime. Training, S&C, and overall competition has moved on to a huge extent. The individual greats would still be great if they adhered to the standards of today, but throw Pele or Maradona or George Best as they were into a premiership or top international team today and they'd look embarrassingly bad very quickly I reckon.

The lack of opposition players allowed to kick lumps out of them would make those players look even better.

cdeb · 14-01-2019 10:16AM

But surely, as I noted earlier in the thread, the significant improvement in fitness/strength and conditioning, the significant improvement in defending in general, and the evolution of their positions to become more all-round would stand against them? Look at the difference Arsene Wenger brought about by ending drinking culture and getting players to just look after themselves physically - and that was 20+ years ago now.

Even the Brazil team of 1970 were astonishingly naive at times - they were still celebrating their opening goal against Italy when Italy tipped off, for example, and were all completely out of position and nearly conceded straight away - and I think they'd struggle to even qualify for the World Cup today. There's a video on YouTube somewhere - I couldn't find it with a brief search - of all their bad play, which gets overlooked these days because of the likes of Carlos Alberto's goal and Pele's misses.

I know I'm repeating myself here, but I think it's a vital point in the context of the thread question - in fact, it ultimately is the question. Could Best, time-travelling, be as good a player today as back then? And my view, taking the above all into consideration, is that he'd be an improvement on Paddy McCourt. It'd be interesting to hear the contrary argument.

Pele, Maradona, Best et al rightly deserve to be remembered as greats of their era; they advanced the game towards what we have today and I've no doubt if they joined a top team today as a junior, they could become a world class player today. But that's not the same as saying their heyday performances would stand out today.

And I think the same goes for most sports, not just football.

valoren · 14-01-2019 10:54AM

In terms of time machines, for Golf, if you could bring Ben Hogan, Sam Snead, Billy Casper et al playing in their prime onto the PGA Tour today then they would adapt within a week of practice to the new technology (460 cc heads, modern balls, trackman radar fittings) and would be competitive.

Same goes for today's top players. Bring them back to the 1950's, playing with balata balls, butter knife blades and small headed persimmon woods and they too would adapt in short order.

The arrows might be different but the inter generational Indian (i.e. a highly skilled golfer) is the same.

_Brian · 14-01-2019 10:57AM

Look at swimming.

My 16yo daughter is swimming Freestyle and Fly times that would have been Olympic qualification times in the 1970’s.

Training amd endurance has changed many if not most sports way beyond athletes of 15+ years ago.

razorblunt · 14-01-2019 11:04AM

Many golfers would be great to see, using today's equipment, playing today's courses.
Nicklaus, Player, Palmer etc.
Player especially, he was always into his fitness so I'd imagine in today's game he'd be a completely different athlete.

OldRio · 14-01-2019 11:19AM

cdeb wrote: »

But surely, as I noted earlier in the thread, the significant improvement in fitness/strength and conditioning, the significant improvement in defending in general, and the evolution of their positions to become more all-round would stand against them? Look at the difference Arsene Wenger brought about by ending drinking culture and getting players to just look after themselves physically - and that was 20+ years ago now.

Even the Brazil team of 1970 were astonishingly naive at times - they were still celebrating their opening goal against Italy when Italy tipped off, for example, and were all completely out of position and nearly conceded straight away - and I think they'd struggle to even qualify for the World Cup today. There's a video on YouTube somewhere - I couldn't find it with a brief search - of all their bad play, which gets overlooked these days because of the likes of Carlos Alberto's goal and Pele's misses.

I know I'm repeating myself here, but I think it's a vital point in the context of the thread question - in fact, it ultimately is the question. Could Best, time-travelling, be as good a player today as back then? And my view, taking the above all into consideration, is that he'd be an improvement on Paddy McCourt. It'd be interesting to hear the contrary argument.

Pele, Maradona, Best et al rightly deserve to be remembered as greats of their era; they advanced the game towards what we have today and I've no doubt if they joined a top team today as a junior, they could become a world class player today. But that's not the same as saying their heyday performances would stand out today.

And I think the same goes for most sports, not just football.

Looking at the other side of the coin. If a professional soccer player could be magically moved back in time to the 1960s or 1970s. I would imagine they would change their profession.

Can you imagine some of these theatrical premadonas getting tackled by some of those defenders. Charlton or Chopper Harris to name just two. Comedy gold if you think of it. It would be carnage.

ohnonotgmail · 14-01-2019 11:22AM

OldRio wrote: »

Looking at the other side of the coin. If a professional soccer player could be magically moved back in time to the 1960s or 1970s. I would imagine they would change their profession.

Can you imagine some of these theatrical premadonas getting tackled by some of those defenders. Charlton or Chopper Harris to name just two. Comedy gold if you think of it. It would be carnage.

Harry Kane being tackled by Chopper Harris would be a joy to watch.

Pyr0 · 14-01-2019 11:24AM

Clive wrote: »

Russian wrestler Alexander Karelin, probably the most successful athlete most people have never heard of.

At one stage he won six European Championships, six world Championships and Olympic gold without a single point being scored on him, never mind losing a match. That six year streak was broken when he was beaten in the Olympic final, winning silver, denying him four Olympic golds in four Games.

The chap won the 1993 World Championship even after breaking two ribs in his first bout, he's a monster.

cdeb · 14-01-2019 11:29AM

OldRio wrote: »

Looking at the other side of the coin. If a professional soccer player could be magically moved back in time to the 1960s or 1970s. I would imagine they would change their profession.

Can you imagine some of these theatrical premadonas getting tackled by some of those defenders. Charlton or Chopper Harris to name just two. Comedy gold if you think of it. It would be carnage.

Possibly - but that is a very different argument. It doesn't follow that Harris or Charlton would be any good in today's game.

I think also the theatrics of a modern player is in large part because it's successful in gaining free kicks. If you put, say, Ronaldo back in the 60s, then he would stop the rolling around fairly quickly once he saw there was nothing to gain - but the flip side then, as you note, is that he'd get the ****e kicked out of him (as happened many players at the time of course, which is why the game moved to protect them). I think modern strength and conditioning is such that he'd probably stand up to the kicking a lot better than players at the time. The build of modern players is completely different to players from the 60s/70s.

Yes, it would impact his game a bit, but as above, I don't think that's an argument for the idea that Best, Pele, etc, would be any good today.

Ciaran_B · 14-01-2019 11:30AM

Mysterypunter wrote: »

Loads of them. The first one to mind is the West Indies cricketers of the 70's & 80's. The best of all time

I reckon Shane Warne could still turn batsmen inside out today.

marieholmfan · 14-01-2019 11:32AM

Joe Davis.

cdeb · 14-01-2019 11:34AM

The snooker player?

Not a chance. Pick a random final - 1930 for example - and look at the scores. Highest break 79 over 37 frames? Not a single frame to nil - so never cleared up from one visit? Wouldn't qualify you for the Crucible these days.

marieholmfan · 14-01-2019 11:34AM

cdeb wrote: »

The snooker player?

Not a chance. Pick a random final - 1930 for example - and look at the scores. Highest break 79 over 37 frames? Wouldn't qualify you for the Crucible these days.

Joe Davis would dominate today's players.

cdeb · 14-01-2019 11:35AM

On what basis?

Joe_ Public · 14-01-2019 11:40AM

Snookers a different game from what it was even 20 years ago, let alone Joe Davis’ era 60-70 years ago. Impossible to say how his like would fare under modern conditions, he was great in his own time and that’s as much as you can say.

OldRio · 14-01-2019 11:40AM

cdeb wrote: »

Possibly - but that is a very different argument. It doesn't follow that Harris or Charlton would be any good in today's game.

I think also the theatrics of a modern player is in large part because it's successful in gaining free kicks. If you put, say, Ronaldo back in the 60s, then he would stop the rolling around fairly quickly once he saw there was nothing to gain - but the flip side then, as you note, is that he'd get the ****e kicked out of him (as happened many players at the time of course, which is why the game moved to protect them). I think modern strength and conditioning is such that he'd probably stand up to the kicking a lot better than players at the time. The build of modern players is completely different to players from the 60s/70s.

Yes, it would impact his game a bit, but as above, I don't think that's an argument for the idea that Best, Pele, etc, would be any good today.

Sorry I don't think they could stand up to the kicking at all. They play a different game IMHO.

cdeb · 14-01-2019 11:42AM

OldRio wrote: »

Sorry I don't think they could stand up to the kicking at all. They play a different game IMHO.

OK - and that's obviously a matter of opinion to some extent. Certainly the game was a lot rougher back in the day. And certainly players are a lot more physical (in terms of build) today.

But again, it doesn't follow that Best, Pele, et al would be any use today.

Joe_ Public · 14-01-2019 11:47AM

Berties_Horse wrote: »

You're taking the proverbial. Snooker has vastly improved since the era of stodge, centuries are no longer a rare luxury.

It doesn’t necessarily mean that modern players are all that much better, certainly talent wise, as much as table conditions make it that much easier - too much so - to rattle off century after century. Neil Robertson probably has 3 times as many career centuries racked up as Steve Davis, does that mean he’s a greater player? I don’t think so.

Mebuntu · 14-01-2019 11:48AM

McCann, Peyton, Ambrose, Coad and Tuohy.

O'Neill, Mooney, Bailham, Ambrose and Tuohy/O'Connell.

and

Wilson, Hannigan, Barber, Hennessy and Conroy.

Tombo2001 · 14-01-2019 11:51AM

The human body is what it is, it hasn't changed in the past 100 years.

So then it comes down to training, preparation and upbringing - and the answer to your question really is - are there any sports where training methods haven't changed much in the past 40 years.

And the answer is yes - middle and long distance running for example. And that's why the Irish marathon record was set 31 years ago, and Mile and 1500m records were set 37 years ago. And why 7 of the 10 fastest marathons run by Irish people were run in the 1970s and 1980s.

In contrast, training for GAA or Rugby has changed enormously in that time.

Tombo2001 · 14-01-2019 11:54AM

OldRio wrote: »

Sorry I don't think they could stand up to the kicking at all. They play a different game IMHO.

I would strongly disagree - just because Ronaldo rolls over to get a free doesn't mean he hasn't gone through massive pain barriers to get where he is today. He is an incredibly hard working sports person. He works much harder than those guys from the 1960s.

OldRio · 14-01-2019 11:54AM

cdeb wrote: »

OK - and that's obviously a matter of opinion to some extent. Certainly the game was a lot rougher back in the day. And certainly players are a lot more physical (in terms of build) today.

But again, it doesn't follow that Best, Pele, et al would be any use today.

Well not quite. The talent they possessed was plainly evident for all to see. Natural Talent. They displayed this gift while other players were trying to brake their legs.

Obviously the science of sport has moved on massively over the last 40 or 50 years.
It could be argued that team play is now more important than natural talent. Money is God unfortunately.

Anyway interesting subject.

OldRio · 14-01-2019 11:59AM

Tombo2001 wrote: »

I would strongly disagree - just because Ronaldo rolls over to get a free doesn't mean he hasn't gone through massive pain barriers to get where he is today. He is an incredibly hard working sports person. He works much harder than those guys from the 1960s.

I would agree to the extent that a professional athlete has the opportunity to work on his fitness. But massive pain barriers? Watch a soccer game from the 60s or 70s and see what a tackle was those days.

Tombo2001 · 14-01-2019 12:03PM

OldRio wrote: »

I would agree to the extent that a professional athlete has the opportunity to work on his fitness. But massive pain barriers? Watch a soccer game from the 60s or 70s and see what a tackle was those days.

I know what a tackle was in those days - but for me, pain barrier is much more about being able to put in the hard work day after day after day for years and years, than it is about being able to deal with some nut job putting a rash sliding tackle in on you.

George Best is a prime example - there is no way he would survive in todays game as he doesn't have the work ethic. Look at Man Utd Spurs yesterday - both teams ran over 100k in the game......does Best survive in that type of football - not a chance. Whereas Ronaldo unquestionably has the skill that those guys back in the day had.

Duffy the Vampire Slayer · 14-01-2019 12:03PM

I think Gaelic football champions from the 70s and 80s would lose to division 4 sides today. They would be horribly unfit and their tactics would be a mess.

Joe_ Public · 14-01-2019 12:07PM

Would be interesting to see how Ronaldo would have fared under the disgracefully brutal assaults maradona repeatedly faced at the 1982 World Cup. Emotionally I think that damaged maradona quite significantly, disgraceful mentality in the game that allowed it to happen.

Tombo2001 · 14-01-2019 12:07PM

One massive change I think from a spectators point of view was that a lot of teams were a complete unknown quantity.

Liverpool could be playing say Dynamo Kiev in a cup match - you would not have a clue who would be lining up for Dynamo Kiev.

I think part of the reason Brazil were eulogised so much is because people only saw them once ever four years, and there was a great mystery about them.

In contrast to now, when the average fan here knows more about the Brazil team than would about Shamrock Rovers team or the Northern Ireland team.

swimming in a sea · 14-01-2019 12:12PM

those East German girls in the Athletics from the 80's still hold a lot of records

Are there any sporting teams or individuals from 20, 30,40, 50years ago that could..

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