Are there any sporting teams or individuals from 20, 30,40, 50years ago that could..

sxt

Compete with the best of today... I know it's an unfair comparison, when you consider the improvements in understanding of strength and conditioning, recovery, nutrition etc. The financial riches which propels sports people and coaching to become incrementally better at everything as time goes by

I can't think of any off the top of my head?

Are there any sports where there has not been significant progress?

LessOutragePlz

sxt wrote: »

Compete with the best of today... I know it's an unfair comparison, when you consider the improvements in understanding of strength and conditioning, recovery, nutrition etc. The financial riches which propels sports people and coaching to become incrementally better at everything as time goes by

I can't think of any off the top of my head?

Are there any sports where there has not been significant progress?

Darts,snooker or golf are what comes into mind for me.

Joe_ Public

LessOutragePlz wrote: »

Darts,snooker or golf are what comes into mind for me.

Not much into darts but both snooker and golf have undergone very significant changes so on the basis of the original question the old players would not simply be able to cope.

obby1

1980's MIKE TYSON would wipe the floor with todays heavy weight boxers.

salmocab

The training, technology and science has moved on too much, I do think that great teams would be great in most eras but then maybe certain players wouldn’t be given chances now that they would have in the past.
Current Dublin footballers would beat the great Kerry teams of the past out the gate if there was a time machine game but if they were around in the same era it would be completely different as they would have had similar training techniques and systems to come through.

arybvtcw0eolkf

I can only speak for the one sport I'm competitive in and that's Judo.

The Olympics has changed the rules of Judo so much since Judo was admitted into the games in 1964 that I really believe Judoka from even 15 years ago were/are far better and more technical than today.

Its probably the same with other combat sports like wrestling, boxing and TKD.

The Olympics destroyed my beautiful sport of Judo.

Joe_ Public

There are still a lot of athletics world records standing from the 80s and 90s so you’d have to think they’d still be competitive. Some of them might be a bit tarnished due to doping it has to be said though.

MrMusician18

Joe_ Public wrote: »

There are still a lot of athletics world records standing from the 80s and 90s so you’d have to think they’d still be competitive. Some of them might be a bit tarnished due to doping it has to be said though.

Some?!

cdeb

Bobby Fischer from 1972 would still be one of the top 10 chess players in the world today. And that's without computers. He was so far ahead of anyone of his time it was incredible

Joe_ Public

MrMusician18 wrote: »

Some?!

Yeah some. You got question marks about Jonathan Edwards or Mike Powell for example?

GetWithIt

Sebastian Coe. Only a couple quicker over 800m since the he set his world record in the 80s. It lasted forever in a seriously competitive event.

Arthur Daley

Think Maradona down to his fighting weight in 1986 could still be different class at a World cup today.

Senna in F1, would still be quick. Davis and White in snooker would be competitive, but not dominant for sure.

Richard Hillman

Arthur Daley wrote: »

Think Maradona down to his fighting weight in 1986 could still be different class at a World cup today.

Senna in F1, would still be quick. Davis and White in snooker would be competitive, but not dominant for sure.

Maradona wouldn't have been able to mentally cope with modern football. His way of coping with the pressure of the 80s were drugs and booze. Adriano springs to mind. Amazing talent but personal issues left him far behind the harder workers. You can't get through modern football on talent alone

Gwynplaine

Chicago Bulls of the 90's would beat any team of today.

Arthur Daley

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Maradona wouldn't have been able to mentally cope with modern football. His way of coping with the pressure of the 80s were drugs and booze.

Not certain about that. He almost single handedly dragged Argentina to 2 consecutive World Cup finals. Brought little known Napoli to 2 Italian Scudettos, where there was plenty of pressure on I'm sure. He lost the plot after the 1990 World Cup but he was a fine player able to shoulder the burden even in 1990.

Tin Foil Hat

Sergey Bubka in the pole vault.

Arthur Daley

Gwynplaine wrote: »

Chicago Bulls of the 90's would beat any team of today.

Used to rely on a bit of help from the Zebras if I recall correctly.

Richard Hillman

I don't think the standard of test cricket has progressed too much. Limited overs cricket has left the game bereft of opening batsmen.

Bowling too. There are not many bowlers with 20+ games averaging lower than 25. Whearas in my youth the game was full of them.

A lof the best batting averages were from yesteryear too. In times when batsmen didn't wear helmets and had to bat on uncovered pitches.

Limited overs cricket is on a totally different level though. Players of yesterday may have been able to adapt but the standards are through the roof from the time I started to watch 20 years ago

Richard Hillman

Arthur Daley wrote: »

Not certain about that. He almost single handedly dragged Argentina to 2 consecutive World Cup finals. Brought little known Napoli to 2 Italian Scudettos, where there was plenty of pressure on I'm sure. He lost the plot after the 1990 World Cup but he was a fine player able to shoulder the burden even in 1990.

Yeah but he wouldn't have had the help of keeping the drug testers away

Hammer89

LessOutragePlz wrote: »

Darts,snooker or golf are what comes into mind for me.

Eric Bristow won the World Championship final with an average of 99.66 in 1985. Last month, Jeffrey de Zwaan averaged 106.09 in the second round - and still lost. That should illustrate that the standard of darts has risen massively down the years.

xi5yvm0owc1s2b

Joe_ Public wrote: »

Not much into darts but both snooker and golf have undergone very significant changes so on the basis of the original question the old players would not simply be able to cope.

That said, snooker's "Class of '92" (Ronnie O'Sullivan, John Higgins, and Mark Williams, all of whom turned professional in 1992) continues to dominate today, despite being in their 40s. Williams beat Higgins in last year's world championship final, and no player in the game can touch O'Sullivan when he's playing well.

M.T. Cranium

I imagine Pele would get signed somewhere.

weemcd

Bo Jackson

Joe_ Public

Hammer89 wrote: »

Eric Bristow won the World Championship final with an average of 99.66 in 1985. Last month, Jeffrey de Zwaan averaged 106.09 in the second round - and still lost. That should illustrate that the standard of darts has risen massively down the years.

I’m not a darts fan but I have heard that the wires on the boards are thinner now, thus making it easier to hit the trebles. I can’t say exactly how true this is but with Barry hearn involved I have no problem believing it.

xi5yvm0owc1s2b

Hammer89 wrote: »

Eric Bristow won the World Championship final with an average of 99.66 in 1985. Last month, Jeffrey de Zwaan averaged 106.09 in the second round - and still lost. That should illustrate that the standard of darts has risen massively down the years.

Gary Anderson won the final in 2016 with a three-dart average of 99.26. Adrian Lewis won in 2012 with a three-dart average of 93.06. Both lower than Bristow in '85.

Joe_ Public

Octavia Proud Quicksand wrote: »

That said, snooker's "Class of '92" (Ronnie O'Sullivan, John Higgins, and Mark Williams, all of whom turned professional in 1992) continues to dominate today, despite being in their 40s. Williams beat Higgins in last year's world championship final, and no player in the game can touch O'Sullivan when he's playing well.

Yeah fair point. Snookers a funny game I guess, older players always held sway up to the 80s until hendry and then those others you mentioned completely changed the landscape. It has stalled now I think because not enough young people (in uk anyway) are taking up the sport and a lack of new talent is glaring. It hasn’t really followed the linear development you expect from most sports.

Richard Hillman

Tin Foil Hat wrote: »

Sergey Bubka in the pole vault.

All of those field events seem to have very longstanding records. The pole vault was broken recently incidentally (2014)

High Jump 1993
Long Jump 1991
Triple Jump 1995
Shot Put 1990
Discuss 1986
Hammer 1986
Javelin 1996

Similar in the women's. They do have those Flo-Jo records though.

I think there may a lot more at play though :pac:

eagle eye

G

Richard Hillman

Joe_ Public wrote: »

I’m not a darts fan but I have heard that the wires on the boards are thinner now, thus making it easier to hit the trebles. I can’t say exactly how true this is but with Barry hearn involved I have no problem believing it.

The wires are a lot thinner. Even my board at home would have thinner wires than the board's of the late 80s to 90s

Joe_ Public

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Yeah but he wouldn't have had the help of keeping the drug testers away

Whatever about the drugs I imagine one benefit Maradona would enjoy is not being kicked and slashed out of a World Cup by the butcher of bilbao and however many other hatchet men roamed football pitches untrammeled back in the day. I think that may have contributed, in some small way, to his copious drug taking.

artanevilla

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Yeah but he wouldn't have had the help of keeping the drug testers away

You don't think that happens now?

eagle eye

George Foreman would be a top notch boxer today.
Steve Redgrave would be top notch at rowing.
Michael Jordan above all others would be the greatest if he was in his prime today.

Joe_ Public

Richard Hillman wrote: »

The wires are a lot thinner. Even my board at home would have thinner wires than the board's of the late 80s to 90s

I follow snooker more than darts and fully believe that under Hearn they have manipulated table conditions- thinner cloths, faster tables, bouncier cushions, generous pockets etc - to facilitate higher scoring and more centuries. Be amazed if he wasn’t doing something similar with darts.

dxhound2005

Richard Hillman wrote: »

All of those field events seem to have very longstanding records. The pole vault was broken recently incidentally (2014)

High Jump 1993
Long Jump 1991
Triple Jump 1995
Shot Put 1990
Discuss 1986
Hammer 1986
Javelin 1996

Similar in the women's. They do have those Flo-Jo records though.

I think there may a lot more at play though :pac:

Flo Jo still has the 100 m and 200 m records. But even longer standing are the 400 and 800 held by Marita Koch and Jarmila Kratochvílová. I remember those two very well from the old days.

sunnysoutheast

I'd love to see what Fangio, Moss, Nuvolari, Stewart, Lauda, Villeneuve etc. could do in a modern F1 car.

Hoboo

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Flo Jo still has the 100 m and 200 m records. But even longer standing are the 400 and 800 held by Marita Koch and Jarmila Kratochvílová. I remember those two very well from the old days.

Flo Jo was juiced up. No doubt.

kevthegaff

Hendry would win world championships now, Nicklaus would win majors also, tiger was winning them over 20 yrs ago even! Boxing especially heavyweight has disimproved

dxhound2005

Hoboo wrote: »

Flo Jo was juiced up. No doubt.

The drugs must not have improved much since the 1980's. Or women sprinters are not as good now as back then.

astrofool

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Flo Jo still has the 100 m and 200 m records. But even longer standing are the 400 and 800 held by Marita Koch and Jarmila Kratochvílová. I remember those two very well from the old days.

Some of the throwing events have had the throwing item modified, so not directly comparable (they were in danger of skewering the audience with the older Javelins ), similarly a bunch of swimming records were set using, now banned, suits, so probably shouldn't count anymore (given they were so short lived).

eagle eye

Hoboo wrote:

Flo Jo was juiced up. No doubt.

Marita looked like she had a Koch and Jarmilia Kratochvilova looked like a man.

Richard Hillman

Joe_ Public wrote: »

I follow snooker more than darts and fully believe that under Hearn they have manipulated table conditions- thinner cloths, faster tables, bouncier cushions, generous pockets etc - to facilitate higher scoring and more centuries. Be amazed if he wasn’t doing something similar with darts.

I'm not a snooker aficionado by any means but the tables are faster now, which makes it harder. The pockets are also generally more difficult than of yesteryear. They have sharper edges than what you'd get on a regular club table

Joe_ Public

Richard Hillman wrote: »

I'm not a snooker aficionado by any means but the tables are faster now, which makes it harder. The pockets are also generally more difficult than of yesteryear. They have sharper edges than what you'd get on a regular club table

I believe the polar opposite to be the case. Faster tables means easier when you have adapted as all pros do. You can manipulate the cue ball around the table much more smoothly with less power and thus more accuracy. Splitting the pack is a lot easier too.

Of course pro tables are tougher than club tables but they play easier than before. Main reason is down to the thinness of the cloths which means the “sharper edges”, as you refer to them, cannot be as sharp as before as the cloth will rip too easily. One of the table fitters at the crucible explained all that in an interview last year. Balls are much more liable to rattle and drop in instead of out nowadays. Anyone watching snooker past few years will already know that.

Wildly Boaring

Schumacher
Senna

Ali
Tyson

Pele
Maradonna

All would be great in any era.

Melodeon

George Best was nothing short of astonishing when he was at the height of his career, at a time when the footballing equivalent of hitmen were literally trying to cripple him.
I'd love to see what he could do these days now that players are much better protected.

ohnonotgmail

Richard Hillman wrote: »

The wires are a lot thinner. Even my board at home would have thinner wires than the board's of the late 80s to 90s

Not only are the wires thinner but the double and treble segments are also bigger than they were when John Lowe did his 9 dart 501.

eagle eye

OceanSunrise wrote:

Ali would be beaten by plenty of modern heavyweights. Lewis, Wladimir Klitschko, Vitali Klitschko, Tyson Fury, Anthony Joshua, Luis Ortiz and Deontay Wilder would all beat Ali comfortably.

I'll give you Lewis and Vitali but the rest are pretty average. I couldn't agree on any of them.

Wibbs

sunnysoutheast wrote: »

I'd love to see what Fangio, Moss, Nuvolari, Stewart, Lauda, Villeneuve etc. could do in a modern F1 car.

Personally speaking I think modern F1 is a thundering borefest. Now they're trying to pimp the E formula in an effort to claw back viewers(the sport lost a third of its audience in the last 15 years. Annnnyway... I'd reckon Lauda and Senna would still be very competitive, the others came from an even more different style of driving and type of car so I'd not be as confident. That said the basic talent of racing drivers has remained the same so I'd be surprised if they weren't incredibly good. Nuvolari was a champion on both two wheels and four. Someone like Jon Surtees won the motorbike and car championships in the same year. Raw talent.

Melodeon wrote: »

George Best was nothing short of astonishing when he was at the height of his career, at a time when the footballing equivalent of hitmen were literally trying to cripple him.
I'd love to see what he could do these days now that players are much better protected.

+1

cdeb

I always thought George Best today would be a bit of an improvement on Paddy McCourt, but no more. The game has moved on hugely since then. McCourt suffered to an extent because he never really tracked back; I can't see Best doing that either and it's a key aspect even of the forward's role now. Dribbling has largely died out too which is a huge shame, but defenders are just better now and won't dive in for example. And I'm not sure how Best's fitness would last up either.

Give him a chance today from the start and he could well be world class. Teleport him in from 1968, and as above - a Paddy McCourt kind of player

Jimbob1977

You look at old soccer footage.

The goalkeepers seemed terrible, the pitches were mud heaps and the ball was very heavy. Physically draining.

The standard had the appearance of being very low.

Would Pele be a great player in 2019?

Could Messi hack it in 1954?

It's impossible to tell. Pitches are like carpets now. Discipline and tactics have taken over from the 'jumpers for goalposts' style of black&white footage.

I firmly believe that a good player will shine in any conditions.

salmocab

Wibbs wrote: »

Personally speaking I think modern F1 is a thundering borefest. Now they're trying to pimp the E formula in an effort to claw back viewers(the sport lost a third of its audience in the last 15 years. Annnnyway... I'd reckon Lauda and Senna would still be very competitive, the others came from an even more different style of driving and type of car so I'd not be as confident. That said the basic talent of racing drivers has remained the same so I'd be surprised if they weren't incredibly good. Nuvolari was a champion on both two wheels and four. Someone like Jon Surtees won the motorbike and car championships in the same year. Raw talent.

1

I always thought the worst thing that happened to F1 was Schumacher in a Ferrari . You had the best driver in the best car, he was also a cool driver that rarely made a mistake. This resulted in poor races that started to lose interest for the non committed fans.

valoren

No significant progress in golf? The stroke average in golf is 5 shots lower per round today compared to 1960 at the pro level. Multiple factors can explain that and 5 shots per round is huge.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/thegolfnewsnet.com/adamcrawford/2017/03/21/pro-golfers-scores-improved-1960-103938/amp/