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Former top housing official claims homelessness in Ireland is 'normal'

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    #32
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    Wheeliebin30 wrote:
    If you put a good point forward I’ll accept it but you’re avoiding it because you don’t have one.


    Answered you already, you don't accept any failings of FG no matter what. So absolutely pointless engaging with someone with that mindset . So save your time and find someone else to go around in circles with.


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    #33
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    conorhal wrote:
    How about this, stop selling NAMA properties at massive discounts to vulture funds and sell them to citizens? A block of apartments near me were sold at less then 50 grand a unit to a vulture fund, why could these not have been sold at the same discount to people on the housing list? FG had handled the housing crisis abominably, from fannying around the edges of the problem with legislation that actually made it worse rather then addressing it to a complete failure to substantially reform public housing and build. FFS, when we hadn't an arse in our trousers in the 50's we were building 18,000 social homes a year at one point, so I don't accept the governments excuses. I'd rate their performance a solid 3/10


    You are wasting your time. No money for housing, yet hundreds of millions was buried in the ground. Right idea implemented at the wrong time.


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    #34
    Grayson
    Registered Users Posts: 16,155 ✭✭✭✭Grayson


    Fiftyfilthy wrote: »
    The genuine people who are struggling to pay sky high rents by the skin of their teeth and working to do this are ignored

    They are ignored and the lazy lazy slob vermin who breed like rats are the ones that officials bend over backwards to house

    It’s ****ing wrong

    Ignored? You do realise there have been rent caps put in place, they're trying to cut down on AirBNB's and there's a massive expansion of house building.


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    #35
    Wheeliebin30
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,593 ✭✭✭Wheeliebin30


    conorhal wrote: »
    How about this, stop selling NAMA properties at massive discounts to vulture funds and sell them to citizens? A block of apartments near me were sold at less then 50 grand a unit to a vulture fund, why could these not have been sold at the same discount to people on the housing list?
    FG has handled the housing crisis abominably, from failing to address the problem and fannying around the edges it with legislation that actually made it worse, to a complete failure to substantially reform public housing and build some, this governement is a failure on every level.
    FFS, when we hadn't an arse in our trousers in the 50's we were building 18,000 social homes a year at one point, so I don't accept the governments excuses. I'd rate their performance a solid 3/10

    There is no comparison to the costs now of building 18,000 houses a year now to back then.

    18,000 houses a year for 2 years would bankrupt the country again.

    We have 600 million to spare in the budget and you think we can afford to build 18,000 social houses a year at a cost of probably 4 or 5 billion???

    Come back to the real world.


    And you think people on the housing list have 50 grand to buy apartments?

    Or that they would want to live in an apartment?

    Interested to hear more about these 50,000 euro apartments though, any info about them?


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    #36
    Dravokivich
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,360 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dravokivich


    enricoh wrote: »
    Iirc there was 100ish rough sleepers in dublin one night last month.
    It'll get to the stage charities fighting each other- he's ours, no we had him first, sign a contract bud will ya!

    I share a spare room with my son. Homelessness isn't just rough sleeping. There's also being unable to obtain a home.


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    #37
    Gimme A Pound
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,482 ✭✭✭Gimme A Pound


    Plumbthedepths wrote: »
    No I told you I won't engage with someone who defends the indefensible no matter the topic because of party loyalty.
    Would you engage with me? I'm not affiliated with the party and certainly wouldn't have a problem with valid criticism but I still don't get the hate and would like to know what it's about. What's indefensible? Is it not true that they have made some positive changes despite the mess left by the previous crowd?
    EdgeCase wrote: »
    You'll always get a % of people gaming any system. That's human nature. It doesn't take away from the reality that there is a major housing squeeze in Dublin, Cork and a few other areas. That's entirely down to an abnormal lack of supply that is clearly caused by the 2008 collapse which entirely wiped out the residential construction sector.

    The impacts of that were huge and despite a few years of strong economic recovery, that sector has been very slow to recover and extremely cautious about scaling up.

    Ireland did go through one of the worst economic crashes seen in a developed economy, since the great depression anyway. You can't really expect to snap your fingers and have everything back to normal and that's why the housing system is not working.

    I don't think government policy has been adequately dealing with it either. There needs to be a very radical rethink.
    I agree with most of that - just not the human nature bit. Those freeloaders are the exception, most people don't do what they do.


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    #38
    MarkHenderson
    Registered Users Posts: 241 ✭✭MarkHenderson


    Plumbthedepths wrote: »
    Dude I'm not going to engage with you over FG, I have seen you defend the indefensible from FG in the same manner that SF supporters defend the same bs from their party. It's tedious boring and repetitive.

    It's pointless debating with the OP. He/she constantly seems to have it in for people from disadvantaged areas and people in social housing in general.

    Say's it all when you see a thread title and know who's started it without even looking,.


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    #39
    raze_them_all_
    Registered Users Posts: 6,744 ✭✭✭raze_them_all_


    conorhal wrote: »
    How about this, stop selling NAMA properties at massive discounts to vulture funds and sell them to citizens? A block of apartments near me were sold at less then 50 grand a unit to a vulture fund, why could these not have been sold at the same discount to people on the housing list?
    FG has handled the housing crisis abominably, from failing to address the problem and fannying around the edges it with legislation that actually made it worse, to a complete failure to substantially reform public housing and build some, this governement is a failure on every level.
    FFS, when we hadn't an arse in our trousers in the 50's we were building 18,000 social homes a year at one point, so I don't accept the governments excuses. I'd rate their performance a solid 3/10
    Why couldnt they be sold to people like me?? Paying a grand a mo th I rent so I can't save for my own place. Why is it now that only people on housing lists deserve these discount houses yet people like me can keep paying massive rates. Sell me the apartment and people like me then boom thousands of new rental properties


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    #40
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,032 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    conorhal wrote: »
    How about this, stop selling NAMA properties at massive discounts to vulture funds and sell them to citizens? A block of apartments near me were sold at less then 50 grand a unit to a vulture fund
    Firstly what NAMA property was this?
    Secondly, you do know that "vulture funds" are just investment funds? I've a pension with Irish Life. Does that make me an investor in a vulture fund? It's a stupid term used to create a sense of injustice.


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    #41
    Red_Wake
    Registered Users Posts: 1,571 ✭✭✭Red_Wake


    From the Colosseum of Rome to the current shower in Focus Ireland, the charity sector has always been more about profiting off the poor than solving their problems.


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    #42
    tretorn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,800 ✭✭✭tretorn


    That man is a rock of sense.

    There are about seven hundred charities involved in the housing sector, cull them all every last one of them.

    The Government is funding them and wasting our money. Threshold is advising tenants to over hold and Threshold is funded by the Government so effectively it is Government policy to advise tenants to squat illegally in a private landlords property. This means people who have vacant houses which they could rent are leaving them empty to deteriorate because its not worth the hassle of renting to someone who wont move when asked. Hence more people homeless and looking to the Government to house them.


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    #43
    kuntboy
    Registered Users Posts: 290 ✭✭kuntboy


    Dravokivich wrote: »
    I share a spare room with my son. Homelessness isn't just rough sleeping. There's also being unable to obtain a home.

    Oh boo ****ing hoo. Why don't you go to the 3rd world and witness real homelessness? They get no room. If you can't afford a "home", maybe that's your fault


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    #44
    mikemac2
    Registered Users Posts: 2,930 ✭✭✭mikemac2


    kuntboy wrote: »
    Oh boo ****ing hoo. Why don't you go to the 3rd world and witness real homelessness? They get no room. If you can't afford a "home", maybe that's your fault

    Username checks out ^^^


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    #45
    JohnnyFlash
    Registered Users Posts: 7,055 ✭✭✭JohnnyFlash


    Not half enough attention and oversight is directed towards the charity sector, especially those operating in the homelessness space. Many of them are little more than fronts for trade unions such as Unite, or as a place to give a former ‘community activist’ a 6 figure salary. You know there’s greasy paws in the till when you have days where there are more homeless charities than rough sleepers. Someone needs to lift that slate up and see what’s crawling underneath.


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    #46
    kuntboy
    Registered Users Posts: 290 ✭✭kuntboy


    Seth Brundle wrote: »
    Firstly what NAMA property was this?
    Secondly, you do know that "vulture funds" are just investment funds? I've a pension with Irish Life. Does that make me an investor in a vulture fund? It's a stupid term used to create a sense of injustice.

    "Investor" is a euphemism used to justify blatant exploitation of other people's hard work. But whatever keeps your conscience clean, I suppose.


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    #47
    Wheeliebin30
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,593 ✭✭✭Wheeliebin30


    MarkHenderson wrote: »
    It's pointless debating with the OP. He/she constantly seems to have it in for people from disadvantaged areas and people in social housing in general.

    Say's it all when you see a thread title and know who's started it without even looking,.

    Yet many here agree with me.

    Funny that ay....


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    #48
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    Homelessness is an industry.


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    #49
    kuntboy
    Registered Users Posts: 290 ✭✭kuntboy


    mikemac2 wrote: »
    Username checks out ^^^

    Your point?


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    #50
    Sweet.Science
    Registered Users Posts: 2,837 ✭✭✭Sweet.Science


    Social housing made sense in the 80s when anyone with a job could buy a house for 20 grand .

    Now working people cant get on the property ladder while people who dont work get a free 3 bed semi


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    #51
    DontThankMe
    Closed Accounts Posts: 732 ✭✭✭DontThankMe


    There is no homeless crisis in comparison to other EU countries homeless levels in Ireland are similar to those in other countries around Europe.


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    #52
    Dravokivich
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,360 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dravokivich


    kuntboy wrote: »
    Oh boo ****ing hoo. Why don't you go to the 3rd world and witness real homelessness? They get no room. If you can't afford a "home", maybe that's your fault

    I can only speak for the position I'm in. I'm not here to challenge some crazy grief ladder. There's plenty of people who don't understand what it's like to be struggling financially, because they've never really seen it. A single parent on can be very compromised here. Even when working fulltime.
    DontThankMe wrote: »
    There is no homeless crisis in comparison to other EU countries homeless levels in Ireland are similar to those in other countries around Europe.

    Its been pushed quite a bit in the news over the weekend. A lot of service industries are having issues retaining staff because they can't afford to live here.


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    #53
    DontThankMe
    Closed Accounts Posts: 732 ✭✭✭DontThankMe


    Dravokivich wrote: »

    Its been pushed quite a bit in the news over the weekend. A lot of service industries are having issues retaining staff because they can't afford to live here.

    I think a formal deflation of homeless would be a good idea in this thread.

    Are people that want to live here but can't afford to rent counted as homeless or is it just people looking for homes but can't afford one for a number of different reasons. Therefore, are renters and people seeking homes but unavailable to get one both treated the same way in homeless statistics?


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    #54
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,032 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    kuntboy wrote: »
    "Investor" is a euphemism used to justify blatant exploitation of other people's hard work. But whatever keeps your conscience clean, I suppose.
    My conscience is clean; why wouldn't it be?

    So in your view, any business is exploiting other people's hard work?
    Do you work? Does your employer make any profits?


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    #55
    LotharIngum
    Registered Users Posts: 210 ✭✭LotharIngum


    I grew up in a council house in the 80s. It had 4 bedrooms.
    I and one sibling got jobs, moved out, worked hard and bought our own houses.
    I have three other siblings who worked maybe less than a year of their whole lives between them.

    They all moved out one at a time as they got council houses. They still don't work, at least not on the level anyway.
    My mum was left in the council house and about 10 years ago they gave her a transfer into a lovely new 3 bed house with a huge garden.


    So when we were all together at Christmas in my mums house the conversation was oh a fence post has broken in my garden and the council haven't sent anyone to fix it for two months and the neighbors dog is getting in and sh1tting on my lawn.

    I have a mouse in the attic and I cant get the council to come out.

    Sure one of my kitchen cupboards has the handle falling off it.

    Myself and my older sister were just rolling our eyes at each other in disbelief. Cue a big fight when she was caught rolling her eyes. She just stood up and shouted out that she was sick of hearing this. She said she was paying a mortgage for the last 20 years and still had 10 to go, and had to shell out all the time when things go wrong, while you guys wont even get up off your arses to fix your own stuff.

    You have a free house, you get money for nothing. you don't have to get up in the morning. You get free childcare that you don't even need. You haven't a care in the world. And you cant shut up about the bloody councilnto fixing your fence post, your mouse, and your door handle. Buy a mouse trap, pay someone to fix one single fence post and buy a screw driver and a door handle in woodies.


    At that she stormed out.


    Me who was left sitting there because I hadn't got caught rolling my eyes then had to listen to the rest of the sh1t. How they pay taxes (VAT) and they are entitled to this and that and how they pay €50 rent and they have to cut their own grass. How my sister deosnt know how good SHE has it that she doesn't have to shop in lidl and has a company car and on and on about the things she actually worked for her whole life.


    My dear lord Jesus, it was painful. And you know what. Same sh!t every year. They are just entitled and anyone who tells them that is a begrudger and god knows what else.


    I hate going home at Christmas.


    Simple truth is you don't learn the value of something until you have had to work for it. That cant be taught. You have to work to find out.


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    #56
    lawred2
    Registered Users Posts: 24,295 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    Wheeliebin30 wrote: »
    https://www.thejournal.ie/conor-skeehan-homelessness-normal-4428104-Jan2019/

    What’s this???

    Someone speaking sense and the truth about homelessness and charities receiving hundreds of millions from tax payers??

    Watch him get crucified by the usual free house brigade.

    he's bang on


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    #57
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,032 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    LotharIngum wrote: »
    I grew up in a council house in the 80s. It had 4 bedrooms.
    I and one sibling got jobs, moved out, worked hard and bought our own houses.
    I have three other siblings who worked maybe less than a year of their whole lives between them.

    They all moved out one at a time as they got council houses. They still don't work, at least not on the level anyway.
    My mum was left in the council house and about 10 years ago they gave her a transfer into a lovely new 3 bed house with a huge garden.


    So when we were all together at Christmas in my mums house the conversation was oh a fence post has broken in my garden and the council haven't sent anyone to fix it for two months and the neighbors dog is getting in and sh1tting on my lawn.

    I have a mouse in the attic and I cant get the council to come out.

    Sure one of my kitchen cupboards has the handle falling off it.

    Myself and my older sister were just rolling our eyes at each other in disbelief. Cue a big fight when she was caught rolling her eyes. She just stood up and shouted out that she was sick of hearing this. She said she was paying a mortgage for the last 20 years and still had 10 to go, and had to shell out all the time when things go wrong, while you guys wont even get up off your arses to fix your own stuff.

    You have a free house, you get money for nothing. you don't have to get up in the morning. You get free childcare that you don't even need. You haven't a care in the world. And you cant shut up about the bloody councilnto fixing your fence post, your mouse, and your door handle. Buy a mouse trap, pay someone to fix one single fence post and buy a screw driver and a door handle in woodies.


    At that she stormed out.


    Me who was left sitting there because I hadn't got caught rolling my eyes then had to listen to the rest of the sh1t. How they pay taxes (VAT) and they are entitled to this and that and how they pay €50 rent and they have to cut their own grass. How my sister deosnt know how good SHE has it that she doesn't have to shop in lidl and has a company car and on and on about the things she actually worked for her whole life.


    My dear lord Jesus, it was painful. And you know what. Same sh!t every year. They are just entitled and anyone who tells them that is a begrudger and god knows what else.


    I hate going home at Christmas.


    Simple truth is you don't learn the value of something until you have had to work for it. That cant be taught. You have to work to find out.
    aah here now, you're not allowed to say any of that stuff!


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    #58
    LotharIngum
    Registered Users Posts: 210 ✭✭LotharIngum


    Seth Brundle wrote: »
    aah here now, you're not allowed to say any of that stuff!

    My big sis did and they still aren't talking to her. I kept my mouth shut, but it was painful.


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    #59
    NIMAN
    Registered Users Posts: 33,162 ✭✭✭✭NIMAN


    When the entire homelessness crisis is invented by saying "we have 10,000 homeless" when we actually don't, it just shows its all a sham.

    We have people sitting in rented accommodation who are in the homeless figures. How can that be right?

    We have people supposedly 'on the streets' and being offered accommodation, but turning it down as it doesn't suit them.

    Its all a joke, and fair play to this guy for calling it out on the Claire Byrne show last night. Its now an industry and vested interests have to keep peddling the myth.


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    #60
    Gimme A Pound
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,482 ✭✭✭Gimme A Pound


    MarkHenderson wrote: »
    It's pointless debating with the OP. He/she constantly seems to have it in for people from disadvantaged areas and people in social housing in general.

    Say's it all when you see a thread title and know who's started it without even looking,.
    Objecting to appalling self entitlement is not the same as having it in for people from disadvantaged areas/social housing.


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    #61
    Spanish Eyes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,912 ✭✭✭✭Spanish Eyes


    Sounds to me like Skehan and Peter Casey should get together and sort this bloody oul country and its hypocritical liberal propaganda out the gap.


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