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Former top housing official claims homelessness in Ireland is 'normal'

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    #2
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    Another free housing thread......


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    #3
    Wheeliebin30
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,593 ✭✭✭Wheeliebin30


    Plumbthedepths wrote: »
    Another free housing thread......

    No just very good points raised by someone which is a view we don’t hear on the homeless issue.


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    #4
    DrumSteve
    Registered Users Posts: 10,799 ✭✭✭✭DrumSteve


    Wheeliebin30 wrote: »
    No just very good points raised by someone which is a view we don’t hear on the homeless issue.

    We obviously do hear them.

    There is an article you posted. You've started a thread.


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    #5
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    Wheeliebin30 wrote:
    No just very good points raised by someone which is a view we don’t hear on the homeless issue.


    Many things which we now view as unacceptable were once normal.


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    #6
    WesternZulu
    Registered Users Posts: 1,935 ✭✭✭WesternZulu


    Leo got crucified when he said that Ireland had a pretty standard rate of homelessness compared to similar countries when referencing a OECD report.

    I expect the same to happen here.

    By building the issue up to be something it's not you are devaluing the nature of the topic. We can only address homelessness in a meaningful manner by being honest about what is, and what isn't, categorised as homeless.


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    #7
    Wheeliebin30
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,593 ✭✭✭Wheeliebin30


    DrumSteve wrote: »
    We obviously do hear them.

    There is an article you posted. You've started a thread.

    First time I’ve heard anyone raise the points he did last night.


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    #8
    mikemac2
    Registered Users Posts: 2,930 ✭✭✭mikemac2


    If we managed to end homelessness would that mean all the charity executives and staff lose their jobs?

    Do they have a self interest in always having something to do?


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    #9
    Mrsmum
    Registered Users Posts: 1,860 ✭✭✭Mrsmum


    I think people are copping on to the fact that too many charities are creaming way too much money off the top of this industry.


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    #10
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    He does raise a couple of good points. 2500 full time ? F**k that. One state agency get rid of the charities. Also the selling off of social housing stock is idiotic. However FG are author's of the present crisis to a degree.


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    #11
    Wheeliebin30
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,593 ✭✭✭Wheeliebin30


    Plumbthedepths wrote: »
    He does raise a couple of good points. 2500 full time ? F**k that. One state agency get rid of the charities. Also the selling off of social housing stock is idiotic. However FG are author's of the present crisis to a degree.

    How are they?


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    #12
    enricoh
    Registered Users Posts: 4,854 ✭✭✭enricoh


    Iirc there was 100ish rough sleepers in dublin one night last month.
    It'll get to the stage charities fighting each other- he's ours, no we had him first, sign a contract bud will ya!


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    #13
    begbysback
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,910 ✭✭✭begbysback


    If we eradicated homelessness, would the homeless of other countries then migrate to Ireland?


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    #14
    Cockford Ollie
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 217 ✭✭Cockford Ollie


    It's the great homeless swindle.

    Self registering as homeless, live in accommodation for free, turning down accommodation because it's not in the exact area you want. It's one big scam, and the majority of the 10,000 are gaming the system.


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    #15
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    Wheeliebin30 wrote:
    How are they?


    After almost 9 years of FG lead governments you have to be joking asking that question.


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    #16
    Mad_maxx
    Registered Users Posts: 13,505 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    Mrsmum wrote: »
    I think people are copping on to the fact that too many charities are creaming way too much money off the top of his industry.

    Plus the entire media are a bunch of left wing activists, they never shut up about the homeless situation


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    #17
    Wheeliebin30
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,593 ✭✭✭Wheeliebin30


    Plumbthedepths wrote: »
    After almost 9 years of FG lead governments you have to be joking asking that question.

    No I’m not.

    Tell me what they should have done when they came into power with the IMF here?

    You know we only balanced the books two years ago and they left.

    We hadn’t a pot to piss in yet we should have built houses for people who contribute nothing while we had too many houses idle that no one wanted????


    Go on so tell me what they should have done and show me the financials of how it would have worked.


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    #18
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,238 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Wheeliebin30 wrote: »
    No I’m not.

    Tell me what they should have done when they came into power with the IMF here?

    You know we only balanced the books two years ago and they left.

    We hadn’t a pot to piss in yet we should have built houses for people who contribute nothing while we had too many houses idle that no one wanted????


    Go on so tell me what they should have done and show me the financials of how it would have worked.


    Ah yes but the idle houses were not where these people want to live. Too far from their mothers.


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    #19
    Grayson
    Registered Users Posts: 16,155 ✭✭✭✭Grayson


    He's right to say that it's normal. That doesn't however mean we shouldn't do something.

    Lung cancer is normal. However we still run campaigns to help prevent it and we treat people who have it. Just because something is normal doesn't mean it's dismissed.

    Same with housing. I expect people will be made homeless for many different reasons. Some economic and some social. We should have systems in place to deal with them and we should have systems that help prevent it.


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    #20
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    Wheeliebin30 wrote:
    No I’m not.


    Dude I'm not going to engage with you over FG, I have seen you defend the indefensible from FG in the same manner that SF supporters defend the same bs from their party. It's tedious boring and repetitive.


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    #21
    LotharIngum
    Registered Users Posts: 210 ✭✭LotharIngum


    1st get rid of all funding for housing charities. Then if they want to be a charity they really will be a charity not a bunch of people being paid by the state. I personally know someone working for one of those charities who rent out their property. They will not rent to HAP tenants, which I don't blame them for, but they are being a hypocrite.

    Then you make a rule that if you refuse housing anywhere in the country you are straight to the bottom of the housing list.


    And another rule that if you get pregnant when on the housing list, straight to the bottom. Your priority should be to not make your situation worse.


    Then there should be a 10 year lease on a council house. If you do anything wrong you are out. Also if after the 10 years you don't need such a big house you are downsized.


    There is too much abuse of the system and that's why it doesn't work. Fix the system so that it doesn't encourage abuse. Only then can you fix the problem. The system as it is, just creates the problem.


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    #22
    Wheeliebin30
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,593 ✭✭✭Wheeliebin30


    Plumbthedepths wrote: »
    Dude I'm not going to engage with you over FG, I have seen you defend the indefensible from FG in the same manner that SF supporters defend the same bs from their party. It's tedious boring and repetitive.

    Right so you have nothing to back up your claim and are running away from a debate.

    Bye now.


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    #23
    Gimme A Pound
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,482 ✭✭✭Gimme A Pound


    I wouldn't have even contemplated voting FG pre 2016 and I don't think they're perfect but I genuinely would like someone to give a solid reason - without reference to fascists from the 1930s or any of the other bandwagon bluster - why they are so terrible, and why Leo is so awful and Enda was so awful.

    It is something I really would like to see.


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    #24
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    Wheeliebin30 wrote:
    Right so you have nothing to back up your claim and are running away from a debate.


    No I told you I won't engage with someone who defends the indefensible no matter the topic because of party loyalty.


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    #25
    EdgeCase
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,471 ✭✭✭EdgeCase


    Well the UN special rapporteur on the subject was talking about how homelessness across all developed economies, with the notable exception of Finland, was rising. She explained it as being caused by an increase in the speculation on housing and the treatment of housing as a commodity to be traded and a failure to build social housing in recent decades.

    It may be normal by OECD comparison but it doesn't mean it's right and it's problems like this that are leading to political instability in a lot of countries right now as disaffected people lash out as in France or turn to populism in the US, UK etc.

    I'd rather see Ireland aspiring to be the best, not just accepting the lowest common denominator as being all we need to do.

    Also the policies are clearly very broken. We are spending vast amounts on emergency accommodation that's been normalised as a solution to a lack of social and affordable housing. That's a waste of money being driven by a refusal to accept the reality that the market is not working or delivering results that are in the national interest or the interest of the greater good.


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    #26
    Wheeliebin30
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,593 ✭✭✭Wheeliebin30


    Plumbthedepths wrote: »
    No I told you I won't engage with someone who defends the indefensible no matter the topic because of party loyalty.

    If you put a good point forward I’ll accept it but you’re avoiding it because you don’t have one.


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    #27
    AlanG
    Registered Users Posts: 1,415 ✭✭✭AlanG


    He seemed to make a lot of very valid points. With the amount that has been spent on the problem it is definitely time to start approaching it form a different angle. Too much time is being given to people who are good PR for charities but have no real strategic thinking.


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    #28
    Fiftyfilthy
    Registered Users Posts: 554 ✭✭✭Fiftyfilthy


    Cockford Ollie wrote: »
    It's the great homeless swindle.

    Self registering as homeless, live in accommodation for free, turning down accommodation because it's not in the exact area you want. It's one big scam, and the majority of the 10,000 are gaming the system.


    100% agree

    It disgusts me the number of lazy slobs doing this, I hate them so much.


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    #29
    EdgeCase
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,471 ✭✭✭EdgeCase


    You'll always get a % of people gaming any system. That's human nature. It doesn't take away from the reality that there is a major housing squeeze in Dublin, Cork and a few other areas. That's entirely down to an abnormal lack of supply that is clearly caused by the 2008 collapse which entirely wiped out the residential construction sector.

    The impacts of that were huge and despite a few years of strong economic recovery, that sector has been very slow to recover and extremely cautious about scaling up.

    Ireland did go through one of the worst economic crashes seen in a developed economy, since the great depression anyway. You can't really expect to snap your fingers and have everything back to normal and that's why the housing system is not working.

    I don't think government policy has been adequately dealing with it either. There needs to be a very radical rethink.


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    #30
    Fiftyfilthy
    Registered Users Posts: 554 ✭✭✭Fiftyfilthy


    EdgeCase wrote: »
    You'll always get a % of people gaming any system. That's human nature. It doesn't take away from the reality that there is a major housing squeeze in Dublin, Cork and a few other areas. That's entirely down to an abnormal lack of supply that is clearly caused by the 2008 collapse which entirely wiped out the residential construction sector.

    The impacts of that were huge and despite a few years of strong economic recovery, that sector has been very slow to recover and extremely cautious about scaling up.

    The genuine people who are struggling to pay sky high rents by the skin of their teeth and working to do this are ignored

    They are ignored and the lazy lazy slob vermin who breed like rats are the ones that officials bend over backwards to house

    It’s ****ing wrong


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    #31
    conorhal
    Registered Users Posts: 6,986 ✭✭✭conorhal


    Wheeliebin30 wrote: »
    If you put a good point forward I’ll accept it but you’re avoiding it because you don’t have one.


    How about this, stop selling NAMA properties at massive discounts to vulture funds and sell them to citizens? A block of apartments near me were sold at less then 50 grand a unit to a vulture fund, why could these not have been sold at the same discount to people on the housing list?
    FG has handled the housing crisis abominably, from failing to address the problem and fannying around the edges it with legislation that actually made it worse, to a complete failure to substantially reform public housing and build some, this governement is a failure on every level.
    FFS, when we hadn't an arse in our trousers in the 50's we were building 18,000 social homes a year at one point, so I don't accept the governments excuses. I'd rate their performance a solid 3/10


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