Why does our national stadium hold only 50K?

piplip87 · 07-01-2019 01:24PM

Should have been more joined up thinking between organisations. Aviva should have been made slightly longer and wider to accomadate GAA games. Where as the bigger Rugby/Soccer games could be played in Croke Park. Makes plenty of sense to hold All Ireland Quater finals in the Aviva and Ireland vs All Blacks in Croker.

OldRio · 07-01-2019 02:02PM

piplip87 wrote: »

Should have been more joined up thinking between organisations. Aviva should have been made slightly longer and wider to accomadate GAA games. Where as the bigger Rugby/Soccer games could be played in Croke Park. Makes plenty of sense to hold All Ireland Quater finals in the Aviva and Ireland vs All Blacks in Croker.

I take it you haven't read any of the numerous posts on this thread explaining the exact reason the Aviva is the size it is?

The Rape of Lucretia · 07-01-2019 02:02PM

Because any one that was part of defining its capacity was ever going to experience not being able to get a ticket into it. They probably wouldnt even have to pay for one. That colours ones views on how many other people you will build the stadium to hold.

Mint Sauce · 07-01-2019 02:15PM

From memory Croker was always near to, or sold out for the few years they hosted 6 nations games, but fans were further from the play area of the pitch, even more so for soccer.

So just going by the Rugby attendances, its a shame that Landsdowne Road only has a 50k Capacity, but it has been well publicised, or so I thought, that the reduced capacity was due to the planning restrictions from local residents, resulting in a single tier stand, which kinda also makes the stadium look unfinished.

But then look at the recent soccer attendances, and they would be lucky to fill Tallaght.

VinLieger · 07-01-2019 03:02PM

Tell me how wrote: »

No. They wanted to stay living in havelock square...

Which also amounts to wanting more money to sell up..... everyone has their price

Tell me how · 07-01-2019 03:08PM

VinLieger wrote: »

Which also amounts to wanting more money to sell up..... everyone has their price

You think so? How about those that value quality of life and community over the size of their bank account.

They do exist even though you might struggle to believe it.

andekwarhola · 07-01-2019 03:12PM

Restricted by location.

Maybe i'm wrong about the logistics, and I undestand the history part of it but I thought it would have made more sense to sell the old site (for undoubtedly a huge sum) and relocate to a green field site further out and build a bigger stadium.

Same with Croke Park actually, given the issues they have with parking and with hosting concerts.

salmocab · 07-01-2019 03:18PM

andekwarhola wrote: »

Restricted by location.

Maybe i'm wrong about the logistics, and I undestand the history part of it but I thought it would have made more sense to sell the old site (for undoubtedly a huge sum) and relocate to a green field site further out and build a bigger stadium.

Same with Croke Park actually, given the issues they have with parking and with hosting concerts.

Financially yes the stadium could probably be out of the city and worked out cheaper but stadiums in cities tend to have better atmosphere not just in the ground but the buzz around the area too and that helps sell tickets especially for smaller games. Leinster get between 40,000 and practically full houses for their games there, it would be significantly lower if it was away from the city as the day trippers out for the event are far less likely to bother.

Tell me how · 07-01-2019 03:19PM

andekwarhola wrote: »

Restricted by location.

Maybe i'm wrong about the logistics, and I undestand the history part of it but I thought it would have made more sense to sell the old site (for undoubtedly a huge sum) and relocate to a green field site further out and build a bigger stadium.

Same with Croke Park actually, given the issues they have with parking and with hosting concerts.

It's possible that the global economy status at the time of the refurbishment influenced the strategy. Plans for Stadium Ireland (Bertie Bowl) and Eircom Park fell through at the same time.

Tell me how · 07-01-2019 03:20PM

salmocab wrote: »

Financially yes the stadium could probably be out of the city and worked out cheaper but stadiums in cities tend to have better atmosphere not just in the ground but the buzz around the area too and that helps sell tickets especially for smaller games. Leinster get between 40,000 and practically full houses for their games there it would be significantly lower if it was away from the city as the day trippers out for the event are far less likely to bother.

Leinster play most of their Pro14 games in Donnybrook.

salmocab · 07-01-2019 03:22PM

Tell me how wrote: »

Leinster play most of their Pro14 games in Donnybrook.

Yes I know

Pauliedragon · 07-01-2019 03:23PM

TCM wrote: »

The national stadium has a capacity of 83000 plus.

A national stadium should be owned and run by the state and/or local government like most civilised countries. Therefore its rented out to any organisation that wishes to pay the fee. That way there should be no fighting over who uses it and it hopefully pays for itself overtime.

troyzer · 07-01-2019 03:25PM

Tell me how wrote: »

Leinster play most of their Pro14 games in Donnybrook.

salmocab wrote: »

Yes I know

No they don't. They haven't played in Donnybrook in over 10 years.

Tell me how · 07-01-2019 03:27PM

troyzer wrote: »

No they don't. They haven't played in Donnybrook in over 10 years.

RDS. My mistake. Point still stands.

salmocab · 07-01-2019 03:31PM

Tell me how wrote: »

RDS. My mistake. Point still stands.

Actually I didn’t spot you said Donnybrook either, what I said about Leinster is true though they sell 40K plus for the games there but if that was in the outer suburbs they would lose sales

biko · 07-01-2019 03:33PM

What are you talking about?
The National Stadium holds only 2000

andekwarhola · 07-01-2019 03:34PM

salmocab wrote: »

Financially yes the stadium could probably be out of the city and worked out cheaper but stadiums in cities tend to have better atmosphere not just in the ground but the buzz around the area too and that helps sell tickets especially for smaller games. Leinster get between 40,000 and practically full houses for their games there, it would be significantly lower if it was away from the city as the day trippers out for the event are far less likely to bother.

Don't buy that. Loads of people attending the stadia, especially Croke Park, are actually coming from outside the city to events.

Better atmosphere is entirely subjective. Provide facilities outside and people would enjoy themselves.

Lower tickets sales is another supposition as well. We're talkling about the Dublin suburbs, not Mongolia. The GAA, for example, could run a lot more events without issues if the stadium was located in a different location.

troyzer · 07-01-2019 03:34PM

Tell me how wrote: »

RDS. My mistake. Point still stands.

The RDS is too small. Since the start of December there have been 40,000 in Lansdowne and sellouts against Connacht, Ulster and Toulouse for this week in the RDS (an 18,000 seater).

The redevelopment will bump it up to 20,000 and Leinster do have their 12-13,000 for the quiet games around internationals but could probably do with a 25,000 seater stadium.

troyzer · 07-01-2019 03:36PM

andekwarhola wrote: »

Don't buy that. Loads of people attending the stadia, especially Croke Park, are actually coming from outside the city to events.

Better atmosphere is entirely subjective. Provide facilities outside and people would enjoy themselves.

Lower tickets sales is another supposition as well. We're talkling about the Dublin suburbs, not Mongolia. The GAA, for example, could run a lot more events without issues if the stadium was located in a different location.

Have you ever been to a stadium outside the city like Stade de France or Twickenham?

It's awful.

salmocab · 07-01-2019 03:47PM

andekwarhola wrote: »

Don't buy that. Loads of people attending the stadia, especially Croke Park, are actually coming from outside the city to events.

Better atmosphere is entirely subjective. Provide facilities outside and people would enjoy themselves.

Lower tickets sales is another supposition as well. We're talkling about the Dublin suburbs, not Mongolia. The GAA, for example, could run a lot more events without issues if the stadium was located in a different location.

Croker possibly due to the unusual usage of the stadium, Aviva would be poorer for an outer location.

awec · 07-01-2019 04:57PM

piplip87 wrote: »

Should have been more joined up thinking between organisations. Aviva should have been made slightly longer and wider to accomadate GAA games. Where as the bigger Rugby/Soccer games could be played in Croke Park. Makes plenty of sense to hold All Ireland Quater finals in the Aviva and Ireland vs All Blacks in Croker.

No thanks.

Watching Rugby in Croke Park was ok as a temporary thing, but the size of the GAA pitch is just too big to share with the other two sports.

hatrickpatrick · 07-01-2019 05:00PM

For Forks Sake wrote: »

Because people who own very small houses at the Havelock Square end objected when it was being redeveloped and that's why that end had to be lower than the rest.

Haven't read the whole thread yet so apologies if this has been mentioned, but the Lansdowne rugby club has a pitch adjacent which, had they been willing to sell, would have allowed the stadium to be oriented at a different angle and thus the same height all the way around without obstructing that sunlight. They were apparently offered moronic amounts of money and a relocation to land very close by and for some asinine reason they refused to budge, and as the project was already running over time, the stadium ultimately decided to give up on their negotiation and proceed with the redesigned Aviva.

troyzer · 07-01-2019 05:01PM

awec wrote: »

piplip87 wrote: »

Should have been more joined up thinking between organisations. Aviva should have been made slightly longer and wider to accomadate GAA games. Where as the bigger Rugby/Soccer games could be played in Croke Park. Makes plenty of sense to hold All Ireland Quater finals in the Aviva and Ireland vs All Blacks in Croker.

No thanks.

Watching Rugby in Croke Park was ok as a temporary thing, but the size of the GAA pitch is just too big to share with the other two sports.

I mostly agree but you'd imagine a bit of joiined up thinking might have allowed it to work.

Maybe mount the bottom tier on tracks and you can roll them back a few metres for GAA.

The Arizona Cardinals stadium has a retractable pitch, it must be possible

JohnnyFlash · 07-01-2019 05:04PM

Love heading to Landsdowne Road to watch a rugby match in the Aviva. Perfect location. Have a good rattle of pints in Ringsend or Baggot Street first, then head in nicely toasted to watch the game. Great atmosphere in the place.

awec · 07-01-2019 05:04PM

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Haven't read the whole thread yet so apologies if this has been mentioned, but the Lansdowne rugby club has a pitch adjacent which, had they been willing to sell, would have allowed the stadium to be oriented at a different angle and thus the same height all the way around without obstructing that sunlight. They were apparently offered moronic amounts of money and a relocation to land very close by and for some asinine reason they refused to budge, and as the project was already running over time, the stadium ultimately decided to give up on their negotiation and proceed with the redesigned Aviva.

Where would they go?

Their location is likely worth a lot more to them than money.

gormdubhgorm · 07-01-2019 07:05PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Croke Park holds over 82...oh wait.

Croke Park is the de facto national stadium lets be honest.
It is even lent to the less fortunate sporting organisations where required.

troyzer · 07-01-2019 07:19PM

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Deleted User wrote: »

Croke Park holds over 82...oh wait.

Croke Park is the de facto national stadium lets be honest.
It is even lent to the less fortunate sporting organisations where required.

What makes it the national stadium? Rugby and soccer combined are far more popular than the GAA and Lansdowne is their home stadium.

Tell me how · 07-01-2019 07:38PM

troyzer wrote: »

What makes it the national stadium? Rugby and soccer combined are far more popular than the GAA and Lansdowne is their home stadium.

If we are having a pointless argument

,

Croke Park has a better claim to be the national stadium given that hurling and football are more identifiable as being irish sports than rugby or soccer and so their stadium deserves the 'national stadium' accolade.

Could also debate the popularity thing above possibly.

gormdubhgorm · 07-01-2019 07:39PM

troyzer wrote: »

What makes it the national stadium? Rugby and soccer combined are far more popular than the GAA and Lansdowne is their home stadium.

Quality, heritage, culture and historical aspect.
I would argue that soccer is not a popular regular spectator sport for the majority of Irish soccer fans unless it is the English Premier League. If the Irish soccer team footballers did not play in England most 'Irish fans' would never have heard of them.
This is part of the reason that the AVIVA is only 55k because the FAI knew they could not handle it.
Basically the FAI have tried to drag the IRFU down to thier level, and the IRFU put up with it until the lease expires on the AVIVA, and the IRFU are in sole control again.

The fact it is called the AVIVA as well has a real 'selling it's soul' aspect about it as well.
For the majority of Irish people Croke Park is the de facto national stadium untainted by stadium 'naming'.

When there is a really big event on in need of hosting invariably Croke Park hosts it, The Special Olympics, The Pope, U2 etc.

All other stadiums in Ireland pale in comparison to it.

Collie D · 07-01-2019 07:41PM

troyzer wrote: »

What makes it the national stadium? Rugby and soccer combined are far more popular than the GAA and Lansdowne is their home stadium.

If you’re using attendance as a metric Gaelic football is more popular than both combined. If you include hurling then GAA attendances are almost twice as high as rugby and soccer combined.

Why does our national stadium hold only 50K?

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