No vision for a rapidly changing Ireland

marno21 · 07-01-2019 03:25AM

Most of the problems Ireland has are self inflicted. There are reasonably straight forward solutions yet there seems to be no will to implement them. The "housing crisis" is actually a multi faceted issue that can't be simplified down into one single "crisis", nor is there one solution to all the elements of it

Dublin and the other cities badly need appropriate housing for the needs of the people looking for it. Young professionals do not all need to live in 3/4 bedroom houses with gardens and parking spaces. There is a massive dearth of 6/8 storey apartment buildings in central locations with decent public transport access. The city doesn't need Manhattan/Singapore style skyscrapers but appropriate density rolled out to sufficient scale. The current policies in this regard are horrendously outdated and need rethinking. There needs to be appropriate corridors for reasonably high density development developed too with public transport solutions such as Metrolink.

Rural Ireland is also suffering from self inflicted problems. Villages and towns are going to have issues if most of the residents are living in isolated houses or ribbon developments on approach roads and being totally dependent on cars. Towns especially in this regard then have little to attract these people in their centres and instead people are driving to out of town retail parks and Lidl/Aldi etc

The inter regional road network needs upgrading on a massive scale. Our economy has transformed over the past 30 years however bar a short period between 2000 and 2010 our road network is still massively outdated. Average speeds of 60-70km/h on most national roads bar the motorways to Dublin are going to causes problems. The proposed upgrades in the National Development Plan and ones that didn't make the cut need to be prioritised as a matter of urgency

Graces7 · 07-01-2019 09:30AM

marno21 wrote: »

Most of the problems Ireland has are self inflicted. There are reasonably straight forward solutions yet there seems to be no will to implement them. The "housing crisis" is actually a multi faceted issue that can't be simplified down into one single "crisis", nor is there one solution to all the elements of it

Rural Ireland is also suffering from self inflicted problems. Villages and towns are going to have issues if most of the residents are living in isolated houses or ribbon developments on approach roads and being totally dependent on cars. Towns especially in this regard then have little to attract these people in their centres and instead people are driving to out of town retail parks and Lidl/Aldi etc

You are seeing the changes as problems, rather than as developments and changes. Rural folk have always been dependent on eg cars. Comes with a scattered population. And have always tended to isolation as we see it now.

Change is inevitable and it is how we adapt to it.

I live deep rural . in fact on a small island, and the nearest mainland village has lost its post office, through lack of use.
Has a thriving school and a wonderfully active Community Centre
some here use a smaller shop locally, some a village at some distance that thrives as it serves a vast rural area. I prefer Aldi and LIDL , for price and range.

You need to see it from a different angle. People here seek the isolation and quietude we have. Not big roads coming in, not becoming like any other town.

Few villages or towns have the social activities they had 50 years ago for many reasosn. That time has passed

Del.Monte · 07-01-2019 10:00AM

kneemos wrote: »

Is there a housing crisis in rural Ireland?

You're obviously not looking for somewhere to buy or rent?

Tell me how · 07-01-2019 10:44AM

GoneHome wrote: »

One of the local pubs to me in a rural village is run by a couple in their 50s and their son of about 25, I was there a few times over Christmas and the place was packed every night, why? because while the wife and son serve the bar the husband is on hand to drive people home at whatever time they so wish. They do the same every night of the week and that's why they're getting the people in, no such thing as a taxi in the area, if more rural pubs were to offer the same service I'm sure they too would reep the benefits. Granted they only open at 5 p.m. during week and then all day Saturday and Sunday but that too makes sense as why would they bother opening at 10.30 a.m. on a weekday to have maybe one alcoholic old lad as their only customer for the day!

I would suggest that the 'Why' has much more to do with the time of year than an onsite taxi service.

Don't know if you yourself were only home for Christmas. If so, ask a friend or family what is it like in a few weeks. January is quiet to be fair, but after that.

Also, suggesting other pubs should offer the same service is not entirely unreasonable. Nor is it straightforward. It needs a vehicle, and essentially another staff resource.

awec · 07-01-2019 10:48AM

Tell me how wrote: »

I would suggest that the 'Why' has much more to do with the time of year than an onsite taxi service.

Don't know if you yourself were only home for Christmas. If so, ask a friend or family what is it like in a few weeks. January is quiet to be fair, but after that.

Also, suggesting other pubs should offer the same service is not entirely unreasonable. Nor is it straightforward. It needs a vehicle, and essentially another staff resource.

It’s not straight forward. I bet the landlord in question does not have the appropriate insurance or license to be operating as a taxi.

You can’t just buy a car and then start giving people lifts.

El_Bee · 07-01-2019 10:55AM

Graces7 wrote: »

I live deep rural . in fact on a small island, and the nearest mainland village has lost its post office, through lack of use.
Has a thriving school and a wonderfully active Community Centre
some here use a smaller shop locally, some a village at some distance that thrives as it serves a vast rural area. I prefer Aldi and LIDL , for price and range.

You need to see it from a different angle. People here seek the isolation and quietude we have. Not big roads coming in, not becoming like any other town.

Few villages or towns have the social activities they had 50 years ago for many reasosn. That time has passed

Honestly that sounds like heaven to me, what are the employment options like in areas like these?

The_Kew_Tour · 07-01-2019 10:56AM

The problem is no alternatives to Government in this country

Who wants a backwards living in the past group like Sinn Fein? FF?, everyone remembers their time. Labour, oh dear! and then you are given the Liberal lads who have no more clue then 3 yo child

Berserker · 07-01-2019 11:03AM

JupiterKid wrote: »

The Church is all but dead.

Which church are you talking about? Certain churches are growing in Ireland. 78% of people in Ireland categorised themselves are RC in the last census. I would say that the position of the RCC in Ireland has changed but I wouldn't say that it's dead. 78% is still a very healthy majority.

JupiterKid wrote: »

Pub culture is dying out.

In rural Ireland that may be the case. Not so much in the rest of the country. It has changed over the decade or so, with people drinking more at home and less when they go to the pub but people still frequent pubs. On the flips side, people are far more likely to go to a pub for food now than they did twenty years ago.

JupiterKid wrote: »

The GAA is holding up, thankfully.

Why thankfully? If they GAA did die and rugby, a far more inclusive sport, took over, what loss would that be?

JupiterKid wrote: »

But IMO the current shower in Government simply don’t care about rural Ireland or the disadvantaged or by those trapped by the housing nightmare. They have no vision, no strategy. They are the ultimate career politicians. Utterly selfish.

They do care about the disadvantaged. Our welfare system is one of the most generous in the world, for starters. As for career politicians, rural Ireland provides us with the creme de la creme on the front. If rural Ireland wants a change in attitude on the political front, I think rural Ireland needs to change the way it behaves first. As for government, we have a horrible imbalance to the left. You can have centre left FF/FG or hard left, who have been shown to be even worse than the centre left.

OldRio · 07-01-2019 11:05AM

El_Bee wrote: »

Honestly that sounds like heaven to me, what are the employment options like in areas like these?

I live in Rural Leitrim. It's mainly small farms and villages in the locality. There is very little employment locally. Most youngsters move away to the Cities or emigrate. The old are dying off.

As an example the Senior Citizens Christmas Party 5 years ago had 78 attending. This year just 48.

lawred2 · 07-01-2019 11:06AM

JupiterKid wrote: »

Ireland is changing beyond all recognition.

Rural Ireland is slowly dying - this country is rapidly urbanising, particularly in and around Dublin - our City State (I have co-authored a number of papers on regional and urban trends in Ireland with another due out in May next).

Outside of the commuter belts of Dublin and Cork and the regional cities of Galway, Limerick and Waterford, rural Ireland is now in serious trouble. Analysis of census figures of smaller rural towns makes for unsettling reading.

Some coastal towns and a couple of tourist spots are holding up but so much of rural Ireland is in a very sad state of irreversible decline.

The Church is all but dead.

Local services are being closed down.

Pub culture is dying out.

The GAA is holding up, thankfully.

But IMO the current shower in Government simply don’t care about rural Ireland or the disadvantaged or by those trapped by the housing nightmare. They have no vision, no strategy. They are the ultimate career politicians. Utterly selfish.

and?

things change

Tell me how · 07-01-2019 11:08AM

Berserker wrote: »

Why thankfully? If they GAA did die and rugby, a far more inclusive organisation and sport, took over, what loss would that be?

Please explain.

Uncharted · 07-01-2019 11:09AM

awec wrote: »

You can’t just buy a car and then start giving people lifts.

Not true. So long as no payment changes hands,it's legit.

Tell me how · 07-01-2019 11:10AM

lawred2 wrote: »

and?

things change

Of course things change.

But change isn't always naturally for the betterment of society. One of the roles of government is to develop strategy so that the change which will come in the future is the most advantageous for as many as possible.

Tell me how · 07-01-2019 11:12AM

Uncharted wrote: »

Not true. So long as no payment changes hands,it's legit.

You may have issues with insurance should there some form of a claim. Such as someone tripping when getting out of the car/bus. In fact, it is possible that a claim would also be made against the pub insurance, not just the vehicle.

Unfortunate, I know, but these things must be considered.

Tell me how · 07-01-2019 11:14AM

Del.Monte wrote: »

You're obviously not looking for somewhere to buy or rent?

Can you please give a rural location where you have found it is difficult to buy or rent.

3DataModem · 07-01-2019 11:15AM

JupiterKid wrote: »

The Church is all but dead.

Pub culture is dying out.

Good to see there are upsides.

lawred2 · 07-01-2019 11:19AM

Tell me how wrote: »

Of course things change.

But change isn't always naturally for the betterment of society. One of the roles of government is to develop strategy so that the change which will come in the future is the most advantageous for as many as possible.

grand - what do you propose?

particularly with regards to the pub and the church

especially given that the majority of society welcomes such changes

dotsman · 07-01-2019 11:20AM

JupiterKid wrote: »

But IMO the current shower in Government simply don’t care about rural Ireland or the disadvantaged or by those trapped by the housing nightmare. They have no vision, no strategy. They are the ultimate career politicians. Utterly selfish.

"The current shower in Government"? Don't you mean "pretty much every TD that has ever sat in Dail Eireann"? Irish politics does not appear to attract those with a vision & strategy and only utterly selfish career politicians need apply.

Berserker · 07-01-2019 11:21AM

Tell me how wrote: »

Please explain.

A child from any religious or political background can play rugby. The same cannot be said for GAA. A child who wants to play GAA, rugby and hockey, is still not allowed to do so by the GAA in 2018/19. The GAA club members will make attending training sessions and games for others sports as difficult as possible for the youngster. I thought this nonsense died out years ago but it's still going on.

lawred2 · 07-01-2019 11:23AM

Berserker wrote: »

A child from any religious or political background can play rugby. The same cannot be said for GAA. A child who wants to play GAA, rugby and hockey, is still not allowed to do so by the GAA in 2018/19. The GAA club members will make attending training sessions and games for others sports as difficult as possible for the youngster. I thought this nonsense died out years ago but it's still going on.

?

ye what?

I can tell you with absolute certainty that this is NOT the case where I live

markpb · 07-01-2019 11:27AM

JupiterKid wrote: »

Rural Ireland is slowly dying - this country is rapidly urbanising, particularly in and around Dublin - our City State (I have co-authored a number of papers on regional and urban trends in Ireland with another due out in May next).

But IMO the current shower in Government simply don’t care about rural Ireland or the disadvantaged or by those trapped by the housing nightmare. They have no vision, no strategy. They are the ultimate career politicians. Utterly selfish.

I don't know why you're in such a rush to blame the government, it undermines the rest of your post and makes you look like you're using change to bash the government. The move away from rural living to urban living isn't just happening in Ireland, it's happening in almost every developed country in the world. It's as avoidable as the wind. There's an interactive diagram that you can plan with if you'd like: https://ourworldindata.org/urbanization.

Berserker · 07-01-2019 11:27AM

lawred2 wrote: »

I can tell you with absolute certainty that this is NOT the case where I live

Woman who sits beside me in work is giving out yards about it. Her son seems to be a talented youngster, playing multiple sports because he loves them all and the antics of the local GAA bods is turning him off sports completely. One of the GAA trainers actually referred to rugby and hockey as "foreign sports" to her at the weekend when she had a go at him. It's 2019 ffs. Thought these knuckle draggers were a thing of the past. She is actually thinking of pursuing this and lodging a complaint.

dotsman · 07-01-2019 11:28AM

3DataModem wrote: »

Good to see there are upsides.

lawred2 wrote: »

grand - what do you propose?

particularly with regards to the pub and the church

especially given that the majority of society welcomes such changes

Can you tell me what's so great about the death of our pub culture? And since when does the majority of society welcome this?

rainbowtrout · 07-01-2019 11:30AM

Berserker wrote: »

A child from any religious or political background can play rugby. The same cannot be said for GAA. A child who wants to play GAA, rugby and hockey, is still not allowed to do so by the GAA in 2018/19. The GAA club members will make attending training sessions and games for others sports as difficult as possible for the youngster. I thought this nonsense died out years ago but it's still going on.

I teach in Roscommon and almost all the students on the school rugby team also play GAA and a good few play soccer as well.

OldRio · 07-01-2019 11:30AM

Berserker wrote: »

A child from any religious or political background can play rugby. The same cannot be said for GAA. A child who wants to play GAA, rugby and hockey, is still not allowed to do so by the GAA in 2018/19. The GAA club members will make attending training sessions and games for others sports as difficult as possible for the youngster. I thought this nonsense died out years ago but it's still going on.

.

As an ex Rugby player I find your anti GAA bias embarrassing. The time and effort put into this parish by the GAA is outstanding. Children playing sport from an early age. What's not to like?
You obviously have an agenda.

Berserker · 07-01-2019 11:38AM

OldRio wrote: »

You obviously have an agenda.

I do. I want children to be active and play whatever sport they like, when they like. Talented youngsters, a twelve year old in this case, shouldn't be forced to chose to play GAA over another sport.

MrMusician18 · 07-01-2019 11:40AM

JupiterKid wrote: »

Ireland is changing beyond all recognition.

Rural Ireland is slowly dying - this country is rapidly urbanising, particularly in and around Dublin - our City State (I have co-authored a number of papers on regional and urban trends in Ireland with another due out in May next).

Outside of the commuter belts of Dublin and Cork and the regional cities of Galway, Limerick and Waterford, rural Ireland is now in serious trouble. Analysis of census figures of smaller rural towns makes for unsettling reading.

Some coastal towns and a couple of tourist spots are holding up but so much of rural Ireland is in a very sad state of irreversible decline.

The Church is all but dead.

Local services are being closed down.

Pub culture is dying out.

The GAA is holding up, thankfully.

But IMO the current shower in Government simply don’t care about rural Ireland or the disadvantaged or by those trapped by the housing nightmare. They have no vision, no strategy. They are the ultimate career politicians. Utterly selfish.

The population in rural Ireland is rising.

OldRio · 07-01-2019 11:43AM

Berserker wrote: »

I do. I want children to be active and play whatever sport they like, when they like. Talented youngsters, a twelve year old in this case, shouldn't be forced to chose to play GAA over another sport.

You're using one example to condemn an entire organisation?
Like I said 'agenda'
You've managed to derail this thread because of your agenda. Leave you to it.

road_high · 07-01-2019 11:43AM

GAA Beo wrote: »

My current situation is unemployed University graduate in my home county. No opportunities locally and I have tried. Can't afford to go to Dublin now due to housing crisis /rental market and cost of living. It's looking like I will try Belfast in the next few months. It's no Dublin job wise but the alternative is sit on the dole or emigrate.

Reasonable rents in the commuter towns around about, rent a room near a train station. If you're a college graduate, depending on what you studied and qualified in you should start on an ok salary, certainly enough to live on.

CosmicFool · 07-01-2019 11:50AM

Berserker wrote: »

Which church are you talking about? Certain churches are growing in Ireland. 78% of people in Ireland categorised themselves are RC in the last census. I would say that the position of the RCC in Ireland has changed but I wouldn't say that it's dead. 78% is still a very healthy majority.

In rural Ireland that may be the case. Not so much in the rest of the country. It has changed over the decade or so, with people drinking more at home and less when they go to the pub but people still frequent pubs. On the flips side, people are far more likely to go to a pub for food now than they did twenty years ago.

Why thankfully? If they GAA did die and rugby, a far more inclusive sport, took over, what loss would that be?

They do care about the disadvantaged. Our welfare system is one of the most generous in the world, for starters. As for career politicians, rural Ireland provides us with the creme de la creme on the front. If rural Ireland wants a change in attitude on the political front, I think rural Ireland needs to change the way it behaves first. As for government, we have a horrible imbalance to the left. You can have centre left FF/FG or hard left, who have been shown to be even worse than the centre left.

Yes 78% are RC but how many of those 78% practice it? A lot of family only baptize their children because they'll need it for when they go to school. How many go to church? I'd reckon less than half of the 78% actually go to church regularly.

No vision for a rapidly changing Ireland

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