Senior Garda suspended from duty.

Captain Obvious · 04-01-2019 10:23PM

Raheem Euro wrote: »

A PEMS store is open every day. It is secure. It ensures chains of evidence.
An individual member can go on maternity leave, can emigrate, can spontaneously combust and the evidence is available. It is logged, recorded and tracked.

You already asserted that it was appropriate for AGS to store written statements in individual lockers given to individual members that nobody else in the world has access to and that was a justifiable reason as to why it took months for AGS to give GSOC the basic information that they needed to BEGIN their inquiries. You have implied that when those members go on long term leave they neither entrust the files to someone else (a supervisor, team leader) nor make key available to anyone else. The files aren't reassigned.

By admitting AGS is capable of dealing with other exhibits in a customised, centralised and appropriate manner your defense regarding the keeping of statements falls down. Lack of access to statements was your defense for late response to GSOC. We can conclude therefore that that is nonsense.

Statements don't go to PEMS. Nor do reports. Nor do files. Nor do exhibits such as test results. They are securely retained by the member. You appear to be imagining a logical, sensible system and assuming that's how it is.

In any case, in most cases GSOC will first look for a written response from the member so even if the system did work the way you hope it does, it wouldn't make much of a difference.

Raheem Euro · 04-01-2019 10:41PM

Captain Obvious wrote: »

Statements don't go to PEMS. Nor do reports. Nor do files. Nor do exhibits such as test results. They are securely retained by the member. You appear to be imagining a logical, sensible system and assuming that's how it is.

In any case, in most cases GSOC will first look for a written response from the member so even if the system did work the way you hope it does, it wouldn't make much of a difference.

You're talking complete nonsense at this stage. "reports" Reports aren't evidence. Exhibits do go to PEMS. That's what the 'E' stands for in the name. You need to go back to Templemore. Do you understand what an Exhibit is. You're obviously a green horn. If you take a knife or a bag off weed off someone. That is an exhibit. You go to PEMS and lodge it. If a knife can be lodged in a central store then there is no logistical or practical reason as to why a statement can't be. So if Gardai choose not to store statements in central, accessable locations such as PEMS or equivalent District store then that is their fault and negligence. And not GSOC's. Statements much like knives can be centrally stored where there is organisational access (when appropriate) even if the member goes on sick leave. If some garda stations operate a system of files stored in lockers that only one person has access to then that is bad practice and their managment are responsible, not GSOC.
That's not the practice everywhere, in any event.

Captain Obvious · 04-01-2019 10:49PM

Raheem Euro wrote: »

You're talking complete nonsense at this stage. "reports" Reports aren't evidence. Exhibits do go to PEMS. That's what the 'E' stands for in the name. You need to go back to Templemore. Do you understand what an Exhibit is. You're obviously a green horn. If you take a knife or a bag off weed off someone. That is an exhibit. You go to PEMS and lodge it. If a knife can be lodged in a central store then there is no logistical or practical reason as to why a statement can't be. So if Gardai choose not to store statements in central, accessable locations such as PEMS or equivalent District store then that is their fault and negligence. And not GSOC's. Statements much like knives can be centrally stored where there is organisational access (when appropriate) even if the member goes on sick leave. If some garda stations operate a system of files stored in lockers that only one person has access to then that is bad practice and their managment are responsible, not GSOC.
That's not the practice everywhere, in any event.

It is the practice everywhere. Not sure where you are getting your info from but it is incorrect. You can keep throwing out the insults but it won't change the fact you are wrong.

Raheem Euro · 04-01-2019 10:57PM

Captain Obvious wrote: »

It is the practice everywhere. Not sure where you are getting your info from but it is incorrect. You can keep throwing out the insults but it won't change the fact you are wrong.

You're completely wrong. Also what you said about archived files and gsoc writing directly to individual members. I don't mind you being ignorant in a private capacity but you are spreading false information in what Justice Smithwicke referred to as loyalty above truth, to ignore it is to validate it.

Captain Obvious · 04-01-2019 11:02PM

Raheem Euro wrote: »

You're completely wrong. Also what you said about archived files and gsoc writing directly to individual members. I don't mind you being ignorant in a private capacity but you are spreading false information in what Justice Smithwicke referred to as loyalty above truth, to ignore it is to validate it.

Believe what you like. Everything I said is true, lad.

Potential-Monke · 04-01-2019 11:04PM

Raheem Euro wrote: »

You're completely wrong. Also what you said about archived files and gsoc writing directly to individual members. I don't mind you being ignorant in a private capacity but you are spreading false information in what Justice Smithwicke referred to as loyalty above truth, to ignore it is to validate it.

Here, take it from an ex-member. PEMS stores physical evidence, drugs, weapons, money, etc. The files are kept by the Garda during the investigation, on completion of the investigation, and for a while afterwards until it's known that there is no appeal. Then, and only then, is the entire file stored in PEMS. This is a recent addition though, previous to this, Members held onto files. It wasn't unknown to have the majority of your locker taken up by boxes and boxes of files.

While your theoretical idea of how it works looks great, it's doesn't work. PEMS is usually only open office hours. Not much good to a member working evenings, nights and weekends.

Raheem Euro · 04-01-2019 11:05PM

Captain Obvious wrote: »

Believe what you like. Everything I said is true, lad.

Yes, lad. Your the smart boy that thinks only you has access to your pulse shared drive, lad. Gobsh1te.

Mod-Banned

MarkHenderson · 04-01-2019 11:06PM

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

Our police force is a thundering disgrace, barely a week goes by when there's not a story about their seedy goings on.

The general rank and file do a thankless job, and most of them do it flawlessly, but there's a deep set rot from within, as is evident from all these relentless stories.

And you can be sure they are plotting to overthrow or slander Harris if he's attempting to clean the force up.

These guys make Al Capone look like a girl scout.

Captain Obvious · 04-01-2019 11:10PM

Raheem Euro wrote: »

that thinks only you has access to your pulse shared drive, lad.

Not what I said. I suggest you take a few deep breaths. You are getting a little worked up. Then maybe consult your source again.

04-01-2019 11:11PM

Raheem Euro wrote: »

Yes, lad. Your the smart boy that thinks only you has access to your pulse shared drive, lad. Gobsh1te.

Statements are not stored on pulse. The pulse system does not store Garda files.
I think you don't know your arse from your elbow.

Raheem Euro · 04-01-2019 11:14PM

Potential-Monke wrote: »

Here, take it from an ex-member. PEMS stores physical evidence, drugs, weapons, money, etc. The files are kept by the Garda during the investigation, on completion of the investigation, and for a while afterwards until it's known that there is no appeal. Then, and only then, is the entire file stored in PEMS. This is a recent addition though, previous to this, Members held onto files. It wasn't unknown to have the majority of your locker taken up by boxes and boxes of files.

While your theoretical idea of how it works looks great, it's doesn't work. PEMS is usually only open office hours. Not much good to a member working evenings, nights and weekends.

You're not following the logic.

PEMS system in operation for several years shows that exhibits can be stored centrally with access by more than one person (where appropriate and tracked)

Original statements are also exhibits of evidence.

There is no practical reason why if AGS wanted to that original statements could not be stored in either and expanded PEMS or other District store room operating the same tracking system.

Therefore if AGS do not choose to do this then they are creating the problem of distributed and inaccessible statements. Only they, are responsible.

So if the excuse for delayed disclosure to GSOC is dispersed and inaccessible statements then the point needs to be understood that that is AGS's fault. The onus is on AGS to store evidence in such a manner where if timely access is needed for any operational or legal reason that it can be gained.

To say "that's not how we do it now" is missing the point. It is how you should be doing it.

Franz Von Peppercorn · 04-01-2019 11:16PM

Bambi wrote: »

It was the gardai not being answerable to anyone bar whatever chancer de jour was minister for justice that created the problem.

My idea is a seperate police force to investigate the gardai. Who they are answerable to is irrelevant but all such forces in a democracy are generally answerable to democractic politicians.

Raheem Euro · 04-01-2019 11:17PM

Captain Obvious wrote: »

Not what I said. I suggest you take a few deep breaths. You are getting a little worked up. Then maybe consult your source again.

What source?

Captain Obvious · 04-01-2019 11:21PM

Raheem Euro wrote: »

You're not following the logic.

PEMS system in operation for several years shows that exhibits can be stored centrally with access by more than one person (where appropriate and tracked)

Original statements are also exhibits of evidence.

There is no practical reason why if AGS wanted to that original statements could not be stored in either and expanded PEMS or other District store room operating the same tracking system.

Therefore if AGS do not choose to do this then they are creating the problem of distributed and inaccessible statements. Only they, are responsible.

So if the excuse for delayed disclosure to GSOC is dispersed and inaccessible statements then the point needs to be understood that that is AGS's fault. The onus is on AGS to store evidence in such a manner where if timely access is needed for any operational or legal reason that it can be gained.

To say "that's not how we do it now" is missing the point. It is how you should be doing it.

Now read back your abusive posts towards me and show me where I said otherwise. What you think the system should be is not what it is. And you are the only one who has limited it to statements. As i said already, GSOC first generally look for a written response from the member before demanding any exhibits.

Raheem Euro wrote: »

What source?

Your information source

04-01-2019 11:46PM

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

My idea is a seperate police force to investigate the gardai. Who they are answerable to is irrelevant but all such forces in a democracy are generally answerable to democractic politicians.

But would we need a police force to investigate the police force who investigate the general public?
& would we need a police force to investigate them?..............

blanch152 · 05-01-2019 01:57AM

Larbre34 wrote: »

Its not the Marine Corps, no one can be 'dishonourably discharged'. Any previous cases of criminal wrongdoing by serving Gardaí have resulted in dismissal.

That dismissal obviously ends their service, but it does not remove their pension entitlement accrued up to that point.

Theres no chance that any investigation / proceedings will be completed by the time Fanning hits automatic retirement age later in the year, so it will be nobody's choice that he departs on full pension entitlement, or not.

Nothing whatsoever can be done about that unless the law around all public service pensions is changed to make them dependent on conduct. In the meantime theres no point griping about the Guards or anyone else 'looking after each other'

Simply won't happen. Pensions earned are considered private property according to the Supreme Court and cannot be taken off people.

You cannot take houses or money off convicted killers, why do you think you can take pensions off public servants, when they haven't even been convicted of an offence.

Franz Von Peppercorn · 05-01-2019 02:03AM

bubblypop wrote: »

But would we need a police force to investigate the police force who investigate the general public?
& would we need a police force to investigate them?..............

No. Unless single Irish cop is bound to be corrupt.

steddyeddy · 05-01-2019 10:03AM

blanch152 wrote: »

Simply won't happen. Pensions earned are considered private property according to the Supreme Court and cannot be taken off people.

You cannot take houses or money off convicted killers, why do you think you can take pensions off public servants, when they haven't even been convicted of an offence.

Well it doesn't sit well for a lot of people that gaurds who in some cases could be considered criminal walk away at retirement. I understand not taking the pension but in the case of the Donegal gaurds it was a case of framing someone for murder. A criminal case should have been brought against them and it wasn't. There was also the case of a young lad found hanging in a cell in Store st station. There has been a culture of criminality and cover up in the force for years and to restore public faith will take more than retiring people with a full pension.

Rows Grower · 25-02-2019 10:35PM

Criminal investigation dropped.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/gsoc-drops-its-criminal-investigation-into-assistant-garda-commissioner-fintan-fanning-37853587.html

gctest50 · 25-02-2019 10:57PM

Next ...........

Gardaí suspect gang bribed detective €20,000 for secret information on CAB probe

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/garda-suspect-gang-bribed-detective-20000-for-secret-information-on-cab-probe-37849658.html

Rows Grower · 25-02-2019 11:09PM

gctest50 wrote: »

Next ...........

Gardaí suspect gang bribed detective €20,000 for secret information on CAB probe

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/garda-suspect-gang-bribed-detective-20000-for-secret-information-on-cab-probe-37849658.html

I started a thread on that this morning.

demanufactured · 25-02-2019 11:11PM

Rows Grower wrote: »

The officer is facing allegations of serious misconduct and is the subject of a Garda Ombudsman inquiry.

I wonder has the case been in the public domain already.

I like snickers ice cream.

Bio Mech · 25-02-2019 11:18PM

gctest50 wrote: »

Next ...........

Gardaí suspect gang bribed detective €20,000 for secret information on CAB probe

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/garda-suspect-gang-bribed-detective-20000-for-secret-information-on-cab-probe-37849658.html

Oh I was interested to find out what a “gang bribe” is (is it where a load of lads chip in a hundred quid each) until I realised I read that wrong.

Rows Grower · 06-12-2019 10:47PM

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/garda-chief-superintendent-suspended-for-allegedly-taking-secret-photos-of-female-colleague-38760768.html

Cee-Jay-Cee · 07-12-2019 01:25AM

Phoenix3 wrote: »

I doubt very much if it is him. HE didn't do any wrong in fairness. The dog still hasn't been found.

And those that made the false complaint have been charged with making false allegations.

Alfasudcrazy · 20-12-2019 03:31AM

I have read the various media reports on this and at face value find the suspension of Assistant Commissioner Fanning really strange and frankly ridiculous. While we did not see eye to eye on a number of issues I always found him fair and down to earth - not always the case with senior Garda officers. I wish him well on his retirement.

Senior Garda suspended from duty.

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