The 'women aren't funny' myth

Triceratops Ballet · 01-01-2019 5:56pm

Silentcorner wrote:

I've no idea what you are on about there...I'll put it to you another way...Man Utd will probably sell more tickets to their games this year than any other club in the Premiership.... but it doesn't make them better than every other club...just more popular....but when you compare the ticket sales to football matches between the Mens Premier League and the womens premier league they are worlds apart...therefore, mens football is better/more popular than womens football....it is then not a giant leap to suggest men are better footballers.

You're all over the place and you're splitting your own logic. Man u can sell more tickets but not be the best, but women are worse by default cos they can't sell as many tickets?
Sloppy!

irishgrover · 01-01-2019 5:57pm

Silentcorner wrote: »

But that is my point...there is no other way...

The free market does not make assumptions...it reacts to what audiences want...

Laughter is involuntary....you cannot help what you find funny or who you find funny....gender doesn't come into it...it is a combination of talent and drive to overcome the difficult gigs to put yourself in a place where people are willing to pay to see you....it is not for the fainthearted....

grand, but I think you are confusing "commercially sucessful" with "funny".... and assuming that there are the same thing.

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000 · 01-01-2019 6:01pm

The only market for women comedians is....other women. If there wasn’t gender quotas put in place by TV shows and it was based purely on talent you’d go a long time without seeing a female comedian.

Silentcorner · 01-01-2019 6:02pm

LLMMLL wrote: »

Actually.its a huge leap. You start with something quite reasonable, that the best selling comedian is the most popular. That's clearly true.

However you then make a completely unreasonable point by a dodgy analogy with football and conflating most popular with best.

It's just a terrible unsound argument.

And it doesn't deal with the major flaw you keep avoiding. By your line of reasoning the best selling comedian is the funniest, not just the most popular but also the funniest. Do you agree that that's the case?

What unsound flaws? What are you on about? I'm not avoiding anything....you are the one avoiding the value of ticket sales in the world of professional comedy....that is bonkers...you are the one making an unsound argument.

Silentcorner · 01-01-2019 6:04pm

irishgrover wrote: »

grand, but I think you are confusing "commercially sucessful" with "funny".... and assuming that there are the same thing.

But....they do go hand in hand...and I'm the confused one??

Triceratops Ballet · 01-01-2019 6:07pm

Silentcorner wrote:

But....they do go hand in hand...and I'm the confused one??

But they don't! Take Michael McIntyre for example, he has his own TV special, tours a bit, wildly popular, so, Is he the funniest British comedian working right now?

Silentcorner · 01-01-2019 6:07pm

Triceratops Ballet wrote: »

You're all over the place and you're splitting your own logic. Man u can sell more tickets but not be the best, but women are worse by default cos they can't sell as many tickets?
Sloppy!

Ah, jesus lads...this really isn't hard or confusing...

If you owned a venue like Vicar Street you'd have a much better idea who puts bums on seats!

LLMMLL · 01-01-2019 6:08pm

Silentcorner wrote: »

LLMMLL wrote: »

Actually.its a huge leap. You start with something quite reasonable, that the best selling comedian is the most popular. That's clearly true.

However you then make a completely unreasonable point by a dodgy analogy with football and conflating most popular with best.

It's just a terrible unsound argument.

And it doesn't deal with the major flaw you keep avoiding. By your line of reasoning the best selling comedian is the funniest, not just the most popular but also the funniest. Do you agree that that's the case?

What unsound flaws? What are you on about? I'm not avoiding anything....you are the one avoiding the value of ticket sales in the world of professional comedy....that is bonkers...you are the one making an unsound argument.

Ok I'll ask again:

Is the top selling comedian of the last year the funniest?

Triceratops Ballet · 01-01-2019 6:10pm

Silentcorner wrote:

Ah, jesus lads...this really isn't hard or confusing...

I agree it's not hard, so it's baffling that you don't get it.
Humour is subjective
Cash is objective

If Justin Bieber sells out 3 nights at croker, does that mean he's a better singer than say Hozier who only sells out 3 nights at the Olympia?

irishgrover · 01-01-2019 6:11pm

Silentcorner wrote: »

But....they do go hand in hand...and I'm the confused one??

ah come on now, using that logic Simon Cowell is responsible for the best music of all time.....

Silentcorner · 01-01-2019 6:12pm

Triceratops Ballet wrote: »

But they don't! Take Michael McIntyre for example, he has his own TV special, tours a bit, wildly popular, so, Is he the funniest British comedian working right now?

Ok...I'll try again...MM is one man...one of many men that will tour next year...because they sell tickets...women will tour also...they won't sell as much...not even close to the amount of tickets male comedians sell...

What does that say to you?

And why are you so invested in ignoring ticket sales?

01-01-2019 6:13pm

lufties wrote: »

Saw this come up on a guardian article recently. The first thing I thought was this is complete crap. Anyway, I got thinking about it a bit and actually couldn't think of one female comedian I genuinely find funny.
Perhaps its just me. However I'd love to hear others opinions, because from a deep societal and psychological perspective this interests me.

I think you miss the word "intentionally"

I find many women funny

Silentcorner · 01-01-2019 6:15pm

irishgrover wrote: »

ah come on now, using that logic Simon Cowell is responsible for the best music of all time.....

The music industry has been destroyed over the last 10-20 years...completely different situation...the music industry is almost unrecognisable from what it used to be.

LLMMLL · 01-01-2019 6:17pm

Silentcorner wrote: »

Triceratops Ballet wrote: »

But they don't! Take Michael McIntyre for example, he has his own TV special, tours a bit, wildly popular, so, Is he the funniest British comedian working right now?

Ok...I'll try again...MM is one man...one of many men that will tour next year...because they sell tickets...women will tour also...they won't sell as much...not even close to the amount of tickets male comedians sell...

What does that say to you?

And why are you so invested in ignoring ticket sales?

So basically an individuals ticket sales can be ignored in assessing their funniness.

But when it's an entire gender then ticket sales are suddenly an accurate measure of their funniness?

You're completely picking your measurement criteria to suit yourself. Ticket sales are important when you want them to be but unimportant when it doesn't suit you.

That's why your argument is unsound.

Silentcorner · 01-01-2019 6:17pm

LLMMLL wrote: »

Ok I'll ask again:

Is the top selling comedian of the last year the funniest?

Honestly? I'm getting bored with this.

Go back over the last ten years and look at the genders of the comedians who made the top ten earners in professional comedy (by virtue of ticket sales)

Triceratops Ballet · 01-01-2019 6:18pm

Silentcorner wrote:

Ok...I'll try again...MM is one man...one of many men that will tour next year...because they sell tickets...women will tour also...they won't sell as much...not even close to the amount of tickets male comedians sell...

Silentcorner wrote:

What does that say to you?

It says that they will sell more tickets, that they will earn more money. It's an objective fact. You're the one trying to infer a deeper or additional meaning.

Silentcorner wrote:

And why are you so invested in ignoring ticket sales?

Because ticket sales, whick are an objective measure of money earned, they are not an objective measure of talent.
Popularity is not a measure of talent!

Silentcorner · 01-01-2019 6:20pm

LLMMLL wrote: »

So basically an individuals ticket sales can be ignored in assessing their funniness.

But when it's an entire gender then ticket sales are suddenly an accurate measure of their funniness?

You're completely picking your measurement criteria to suit yourself. Ticket sales are important when you want them to be but unimportant when it doesn't suit you.

That's why your argument is unsound.

I am not saying ignore an individuals ticket sales....jesus...step back for one minute and look at the world of comedy...then look at the ticket sales...why is it so difficult to accept the reality...female comedians are lagging way behind male comedians...

Ok. how about we compromise...female comedians are selling more tickets than they did 10 years ago...female comedy is exploding in popularity...would that help?

Zaph · 01-01-2019 6:21pm

Silentcorner wrote: »

Honestly? I'm getting bored with this.

Go back over the last ten years and look at the genders of the comedians who made the top ten earners in professional comedy (by virtue of ticket sales)

And you'll find that they're the comedic equivalent of One Direction or Justin Bieber, i.e. bland and generally inoffensive without being hugely talented. I wouldn't cross the road to see Michael McIntyre or Peter Kay, but thousands would. Does that mean they're funnier than acts I'd pay to see? Well if you were going on pure ticket sales, then yes, but I think most comedy fans would know the answer to that question.

Silentcorner · 01-01-2019 6:22pm

Triceratops Ballet wrote: »

It says that they will sell more tickets, that they will earn more money. It's an objective fact. You're the one trying to infer a deeper or additional meaning.

Because ticket sales, whick are an objective measure of money earned, they are not an objective measure of talent.
Popularity is not a measure of talent!

Then what metrics are left??

We are ignoring ticket sales
We are ignoring popularity
We are ignoring earnings.

gmisk · 01-01-2019 6:25pm

bluewolf wrote: »

I don't like amy schumer's stand up but i do love her sketches.
I also love martina hill's sketches. tina fey is obviously very funny as well but not stand up either.

Amy Schumer steals vast amounts of material both for her stand-up and tv shows, not a fan at all.

Love Tina fey her book is terrific and she is an excellent writer, but don't know if she does stand-up? Same with Amy Poehler and Mindy Kahling.

My favourite female comedians
Nanette Gadsby
I also saw Roseanne Barr years ago and she was hilarious.
Kathy Griffin is fun too.

My all time favourite is Victoria Woods

Triceratops Ballet · 01-01-2019 6:25pm

Silentcorner wrote:

Then what metrics are left??

Silentcorner wrote:

We are ignoring ticket sales We are ignoring popularity We are ignoring earnings.

There are no metrics! That's the point! Comedy is subjective. You can't prove x is funnier than y because some people will find x hilarious , some will find y hilarious, some will find both funny and some will find neither funny.

LLMMLL · 01-01-2019 6:25pm

Silentcorner wrote: »

Triceratops Ballet wrote: »

It says that they will sell more tickets, that they will earn more money. It's an objective fact. You're the one trying to infer a deeper or additional meaning.

Because ticket sales, whick are an objective measure of money earned, they are not an objective measure of talent.
Popularity is not a measure of talent!

Then what metrics are left??

We are ignoring ticket sales
We are ignoring popularity
We are ignoring earnings.

You still won't answer this question directly. I'll try again:

Do you think the tip selling comedian is the funniest? Is MM funnier than all the comedians he outsells?

You're ignoring ticket sales too. You're just trying to avoid admitting it.

Guy:Incognito · 01-01-2019 6:26pm

Kidchameleon wrote: »

The constant push to "prove" women are funny gets me. More women in standup, women are just as funny as men, more female comedy panelists.... these are things I constantly have shoved down my throat. If women are just as funny, then they dont need a hand or a quota, let them do their thing and the free market will decide. Whenever I see a female standup act on tv lately, I find myself thinking "is she there to bulk up the numbers or because of her own merit". Id be so pissed if I was a woman in this day and age

It's not just comedy. Every panel of pundits on sky for pl matches seems to have a woman on it now too. Theres definitely an effort being made to push it.

Silentcorner · 01-01-2019 6:26pm

Zaph wrote: »

And you'll find that they're the comedic equivalent of One Direction or Justin Bieber, i.e. bland and generally inoffensive without being hugely talented. I wouldn't cross the road to see Michael McIntyre or Peter Kay, but thousands would. Does that mean they're funnier than acts I'd pay to see? Well if you were going on pure ticket sales, then yes, but I think most comedy fans would know the answer to that question.

But most comedy fans are buying tickets to the most popular acts???

Now the purists might not agree...Jerry Seinfeld sold more tickets than Larry David, in the world of comedy that makes him more successful...David is worth more probably because of his TV Series...which makes him a better comedy show writer/producer.

The comedy gestapo don't get to tell us which gender is funnier though...the free market does!

Silentcorner · 01-01-2019 6:28pm

Triceratops Ballet wrote: »

There are no metrics! That's the point! Comedy is subjective. You can't prove x is funnier than y because some people will find x hilarious , some will find y hilarious, some will find both funny and some will find neither funny.

So...there is no point at all in having any discussion at all....this thread is pointless then....medals for all!!! I love it...I'm a comedian!!!

Triceratops Ballet · 01-01-2019 6:31pm

Silentcorner wrote:

So...there is no point at all in having any discussion at all....this thread is pointless then....medals for all!!! I love it...I'm a comedian!!!

You're free to think women aren't funny, you should just be able to back it up without relying on flawed logic, that you can bend and flex to suit your own narrative.

Silentcorner · 01-01-2019 6:32pm

LLMMLL wrote: »

You still won't answer this question directly. I'll try again:

Do you think the tip selling comedian is the funniest? Is MM funnier than all the comedians he outsells?

You're ignoring ticket sales too. You're just trying to avoid admitting it.

I am not ignoring ticket sales....I brought up the ticket sales...I am avoiding the rabbit hole argument you are trying your best to shove down my throat...

I don't think Brendan Grace was the funniest Irish comedian but he was very successful!!

Do male comedians sell more tickets than female comedians....yes...by some distance...my interpretation of that is simple...you can interpret is any way you like!

Silentcorner · 01-01-2019 6:37pm

Triceratops Ballet wrote: »

You're free to think women aren't funny, you should just be able to back it up without relying on flawed logic, that you can bend and flex to suit your own narrative.

You think ticket sales are flawed logic...that is your right...but who are you to decide what flawed logic is? Ticket Sales and earnings are pretty much the parameters used by every professional creative and sporting industry.

I have already told you I know of plenty of witty women...but feel free to ignore that too.

Zaph · 01-01-2019 6:37pm

Silentcorner wrote: »

But most comedy fans are buying tickets to the most popular acts???

I know plenty of people who have paid to see "stadium comedians" at the 3 Arena and haven't been to another comedy gig in years, or in some cases ever. These are guys they see on TV with big specials and then recognise the name when tickets go on sale and decide they'll go. They'd be the comedy equivalent of people who'd go and see Michael Buble or whoever in some stadium, not because they're huge fans but because they recognise the name, know a few songs and go because it's a big event. Even moderately well known comedians mean nothing to most of those people. I went to see Dave Gorman a few months ago and the number of blank faces I got when I mentioned him to people in work far outweighed those who knew him.

Triceratops Ballet · 01-01-2019 6:41pm

Silentcorner wrote:

I don't think Brendan Grace was the funniest Irish comedian but he was very successful!!

Right, so just because he was more successful, does not mean he was objectively funnier than everyone else gigging at the time. He may have sold more tickets but that doesn't make him funnier.

Great same page.

Now let's take it a step further, by your ticket sales = funny model then Irish comedians aren't funny, because if you look at ticket sales on a macro level less people globally will buy tickets to see an Irish comedian, they're not as popular and therefore must be assumed to be less funny?

LLMMLL · 01-01-2019 6:43pm

Silentcorner wrote: »

Triceratops Ballet wrote: »

You're free to think women aren't funny, you should just be able to back it up without relying on flawed logic, that you can bend and flex to suit your own narrative.

You think ticket sales are flawed logic...that is your right...but who are you to decide what flawed logic is? Ticket Sales and earnings are pretty much the parameters used by every professional creative and sporting industry.

I have already told you I know of plenty of witty women...but feel free to ignore that too.

It's flawed logic to say ticket sales aren't important when assessing individual comedians (which you've admitted with your Brendan grace comment) but are the most important criteria when deciding if one gender is funnier than the other.

You've yet to explain why it's important in one situation but unimportant in another. Until.you do that it's clearly flawed logic.

IamtheWalrus · 01-01-2019 6:45pm

The late Christopher Hitchens said women aren’t funny. The reason being, from an evolutionary perspective, they don’t need to be; they have their looks to attract. Men don’t so require humour to attract a mate.

Triceratops Ballet · 01-01-2019 6:46pm

Silentcorner wrote:

I have already told you I know of plenty of witty women...but feel free to ignore that too.

What do you want me to say about it?
It's unrelated to the logic issue in your argument

LLMMLL · 01-01-2019 6:51pm

IamtheWalrus wrote: »

The late Christopher Hitchens said women aren’t funny. The reason being, from an evolutionary perspective, they don’t need to be; they have their looks to attract. Men don’t so require humour to attract a mate.

Whenever I want to learn about evolution and get an expert opinion I always listen to a philosophy and politics graduate.

Silentcorner · 01-01-2019 6:52pm

Triceratops Ballet wrote: »

Right, so just because he was more successful, does not mean he was objectively funnier than everyone else gigging at the time. He may have sold more tickets but that doesn't make him funnier.

Great same page.

Now let's take it a step further, by your ticket sales = funny model then Irish comedians aren't funny, because if you look at ticket sales on a macro level less people globally will buy tickets to see an Irish comedian, they're not as popular and therefore must be assumed to be less funny?

At last we agree!!!!

Irish comedians do not sell anywhere near the amount of tickets lets say Scottish comedians sell...despite our population being virtually the same...for a few complex reasons we do not produce anywhere near the same amount of professional comedians than Scotland does....as far as professional comedians go...Irish comedians are waaaay behind scottish comedians, therefore, we are not as funny, as far as comedy audiences are concerned, even though I know a bucklead of proper funny men, you can't really argue with facts! Unless you dig your head in the sand that is!

Bingo...thanks for that!

Silentcorner · 01-01-2019 6:54pm

Triceratops Ballet wrote: »

What do you want me to say about it?
It's unrelated to the logic issue in your argument

You claimed I don't find women funny...I responded to that!!! WTF???

Silentcorner · 01-01-2019 6:54pm

LLMMLL wrote: »

Whenever I want to learn about evolution and get an expert opinion I always listen to a philosophy and politics graduate.

It's serving you well...you go girl!!

IamtheWalrus · 01-01-2019 6:55pm

LLMMLL wrote: »

Whenever I want to learn about evolution and get an expert opinion I always listen to a philosophy and politics graduate.

That would be fruitless.

If you’re looking for a humourus and witty social commentator, I highly recommend Hitchens.

Sn@kebite · 01-01-2019 6:55pm

IamtheWalrus wrote: »

The late Christopher Hitchens said women aren’t funny. The reason being, from an evolutionary perspective, they don’t need to be; they have their looks to attract. Men don’t so require humour to attract a mate.

I tend to follow this.

Historically fathers told their sons girls like a boy who can make her laugh, women also say they look form men who can make her laugh. So historically there was no real conditioning of girls to try to be comediennes and women weren't often involved in public speaking at all anyway.

there is also the issue of women mimicking masculine humour and this also created a problem. I suppose the similar thing would be a male daycare worker feeling he needs to "act like a female one" to fit in which actually in these cases may discourage the opposite sex from partaking.
And as Hitchens states we have butch lesbians and jew women so it creates a lack of variety although it does seem to be changing. Add in the idiotic quotas on BBC panels feminists demand and it may create even more awkwardness; you cant quota people to be funny. So feminism (as usual) seems to have unrealistic methods of forcing society to find women funny.

Dyr · 01-01-2019 6:57pm

Wilberto wrote: »

Also, I find Sarah Millican to be quite hilarious and is probably one of my favourite comedians.

Usually, she's hilarious for the first 10 minutes then runs out of steam, dunno is just that her material or her persona can't keep interest

Triceratops Ballet · 01-01-2019 6:57pm

Silentcorner wrote:

You claimed I don't find women funny...I responded to that!!! WTF???

Ok, do you want a pat on the back for saying you know witty women? Why bring it up?

Triceratops Ballet · 01-01-2019 7:04pm

Silentcorner wrote:

Irish comedians do not sell anywhere near the amount of tickets lets say Scottish comedians sell...despite our population being virtually the same...for a few complex reasons we do not produce anywhere near the same amount of professional comedians than Scotland does....as far as professional comedians go...Irish comedians are waaaay behind scottish comedians, therefore, we are not as funny, as far as comedy audiences are concerned, even though I know a bucklead of proper funny men, you can't really argue with facts! Unless you dig your head in the sand that is!

Silentcorner wrote:

Bingo...thanks for that!

Silentcorner wrote:

At last we agree!!!!

Silentcorner wrote:

Irish comedians do not sell anywhere near the amount of tickets lets say Scottish comedians sell...despite our population being virtually the same...for a few complex reasons we do not produce anywhere near the same amount of professional comedians than Scotland does....as far as professional comedians go...Irish comedians are waaaay behind scottish comedians, therefore, we are not as funny, as far as comedy audiences are concerned, even though I know a bucklead of proper funny men, you can't really argue with facts! Unless you dig your head in the sand that is!

Silentcorner wrote:

Bingo...thanks for that!

Is this speculation or fact, I'm interested to know how you know the percentage of comedians and comedy tickets sold per head of population in Scotland?

Also just because more tickets are sold doesn't make them funnier, how do you not get it. You said it yourself, Brendan Grace sold a lot of tickets but he wasn't the funniest comedian of his day. You're actively contradicting yourself!

Silentcorner · 01-01-2019 7:07pm

Triceratops Ballet wrote: »

Ok, do you want a pat on the back for saying you know witty women? Why bring it up?

Read back over the thread...you claimed, twice, that I don't find women funny...I don't need a pat on the back...I'm not that precious!

LLMMLL · 01-01-2019 7:10pm

IamtheWalrus wrote: »

LLMMLL wrote: »

Whenever I want to learn about evolution and get an expert opinion I always listen to a philosophy and politics graduate.

That would be fruitless.

If you’re looking for a humourus and witty social commentator, I highly recommend Hitchens.

He is the philosophy graduate I'm referring to. He might be witty but I doubt he's an expert in evolutionary psychology.

Triceratops Ballet · 01-01-2019 7:11pm

Silentcorner wrote:

Read back over the thread...you claimed, twice, that I don't find women funny...I don't need a pat on the back...I'm not that precious!

Yeah and then you said you knew witty women in real life, and I said no more about it. Until you came back saying I ignored that you said you knew witty women? I don't know what you expect me to say about it? Good for you you know funny women?

Silentcorner · 01-01-2019 7:18pm

Triceratops Ballet wrote: »

Is this speculation or fact, I'm interested to know how you know the percentage of comedians and comedy tickets sold per head of population in Scotland?

Also just because more tickets are sold doesn't make them funnier, how do you not get it. You said it yourself, Brendan Grace sold a lot of tickets but he wasn't the funniest comedian of his day. You're actively contradicting yourself!

You, and you are not on your own...are conveniently ignoring the professional world of comedy to fit a deluded narrative...good luck with it...facts don't care about feelings or opinions for that matter!

You are deciding to ignore the audience that each year pay to see comedy acts (using their subjective humour)...you are ignoring those comedy audiences because they do not agree with you....you are not in a position to decide what comedy audiences should like, nor am I, I am not deluded enough to even think my opinion matters...facts don't care about my feelings or opinions.

You find women hilarious...you are in the minority.

IamtheWalrus · 01-01-2019 7:19pm

LLMMLL wrote: »

He is the philosophy graduate I'm referring to. He might be witty but I doubt he's an expert in evolutionary psychology.

That was the joke!

LLMMLL · 01-01-2019 7:20pm

Silentcorner wrote:

You, and you are not on your own...are conveniently ignoring the professional world of comedy to fit a deluded narrative...good luck with it...facts don't care about feelings or opinions for that matter!

You are deciding to ignore the audience that each year pay to see comedy acts (using their subjective humour)...you are ignoring those comedy audiences because they do not agree with you....

You're doing the exact same thing by not finding Brendan grace funny.

Silentcorner · 01-01-2019 7:24pm

LLMMLL wrote: »

You're doing the exact same thing by not finding Brendan grace funny.

What????

What the f##k are you on about?

LLMMLL · 01-01-2019 7:28pm

Silentcorner wrote: »

LLMMLL wrote: »

You're doing the exact same thing by not finding Brendan grace funny.

What????

What the f##k are you on about?

Do you not remember bringing up Brendan grace as an example.of.high ticket sales but not being the funniest?

Why are you ignoring his ticket sales?

The 'women aren't funny' myth

Comments